Last month I discovered that my husband of 23 years was quite involved in an "emotional" relationship with a very young woman. He is 56 and she is 20. He adamantly denies any sexual infidelity, although he also originally tried to significantly downplay the extent of his feelings for her, calling it an "infatuation". He met her privately 5 times for lunch (secretly of course) and sent 24 e/mails to her in a 15 day period, culminating with 2 e/mails on Christmas Eve, and 3 on CHRISTMAS DAY!? The content of his e/mails revealed that he was trying to sound very lonely, sad, and even perhaps sexually neglected. Plus his LONGING for her was painfully evident in his need to contact her 3 times on X/mas day. She has not sent him anything provocative in her return e/mails. My husband originally claimed that he was "infatuated" with her - but his longing indicates much more is going on. He eventually admitted that he was having sexual fantasies about her and that what he WAS feelng for her was probably more than infatuation (although he still continues to insist that he is "in love" with me). He says she has never given him any indications that she thinks of him as anything other than a "friend". His work (he is a college professor - she is his student) brings him in contact with young women all the time, and he now has also admitted that he has fantasized about young female students for our entire married life. This is a man who has NEVER so much as brought a porn magazine into the house, makes derisive comments about men who leer or "objectify" women, and who doesn't even look up at the t.v. when a "Victoria's Secret" commercial comes on. While I think that sexual fantasies are perfectly normal, am I wrong in thinking that it could be very risky to our marriage for him to fantasize on an on-going basis about women with whom he has frequent contact? He says he ONLY fantasizes about women he knows fairly well, because he has to LIKE them before he can fantasize about them. (He sees his current "infatuation" many hours per week). I feel very threatened about his relationship with this young woman, although he says he has "learned to not lust after what I cannot have" (not at ALL reassuring to me), and that a relationship with her is "not a possibility". I am almost certain now that these emotional affairs, if not more, have happened before at least several times in our relationship. The pattern of his treatment of me has been quite similar (emotional and sexual distancing, becoming very "task oriented" to prove his love for me while still being able to avoid sex, having difficulty with his erection, etc.) We have had a wonderful life together - we are best friends and companions, do almost everything together, have an explosive sexual chemistry when "it" happens, rarely fight, and he calls me his "soul mate". I am 12 years younger than him, and have always kept myself in slim and athletic shape, attractive, and very sexually available and responsive to him. So, I find this all so hurtful and shocking. He has always lead me to believe that he never even looked at other women, and has always expressed that I am the only one for him!? After admitting to me that he was terribley wrong, "sickened" by his own behavior, and questioned his own sanity, he said he would keep his thoughts of her in check and keep their relationship "strictly professional". Two days after our long discussion I found him taking her out to lunch again! My trust is shattered!

I am especially interested in the male perspective to all this; do ALL men lust after young women? (Dumb question?). Is it really that big of a step in WANTING to have sex with an attractive young woman and actually taking that step? He says he loves me too much to ever do this!? My husband was getting dangerously attached to this young woman, yet he says he would NEVER actually "do anything". Is he a "Love Junkie" - i.e., I have read that many people are addicted to that rush they get from new love/flirtation/attraction. Am I making a big deal out of something that is not? I don't trust him! Any constructive comments will be appreciated. Thank you.

Hi Totally. First off, I am a 25 year old man, and most of what you wrote is not that uncommon and I don't think is much to worry about. Men have fantasies about all kinds of women, whether it be friends or movie stars. Also there is a big difference in wanting to have sex with another woman and actually doing it. I act the same as your husband does, I don't look at pretty women when I am with my wife, and when she asks me "She's pretty, right?", I say no way. But let's face it, guys are going to look at women and fantasize about sex and all kinds of women. It's just if something actually happens is when it's gone too far. To me it is natural to fantasize about some things because if we don't fantasize about them, we might just go out and do it. I flirt with female co-workers all of the time, but we all know it is in fun and nothing will ever come out of it, guys just flirt.I think your main thing right now is you need to figure out if you trust him or not. Also I know what you are going through, I had the same thing happen to me 2 years ago with my wife and even though there was no sex involved, it almost kiled me. To me it was mainly a trust issue. I'm sorry for any pain you are going through and I wish you the best.

TotallyTrustedHim,

Welcome to MB, sorry you find it necessary to be here though... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I&#8217;m a woman and I understand you&#8217;re especially looking for a male perspective here, but I want to send my opinion too.

I was involved in an inappropriate e-mail friendship and became attracted and emotionally very attached to OM and also started to fantasize about him sexually. Please read the following quote from a post I&#8217;ve send a few months ago:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> A while ago I&#8217;ve also said to someone the problem is not with the feelings we experience and can&#8217;t control, but the problem comes when we ACT on those feelings. But sometimes I'm not sure. Although I&#8217;ve never physically acted on my feelings towards OM, it escalated to a level where I started to constantly think about him and&#8230;(I&#8217;m SO ashamed to say this and bend my head in shame before my Father)&#8230;that I&#8217;ve also started to fantasize about OM sexually and otherwise&#8230; I say this with deep regret today&#8230; It was a big struggle and religious problem to me. It felt if I was commit &#8220;adultery in the heart&#8221; because according to Scripture &#8220;adultery in the heart&#8221; is the same as &#8216;real&#8217; adultery. I could control my physical acts, but I couldn't control my thoughts. So, in my eyes and in God&#8217;s eyes, I was just as guilty as anyone else who have commited &#8216;real physical&#8217; adultery. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In the Script Jesus said to his disciples that if you have just look to a woman to desire her, you&#8217;ve already commit adultery in the heart. Jesus was very clear about this and of course the same script in the Bible is also applicable on woman who lust after men&#8230; So in my opinion (as a Christian who believe in the Script and God&#8217;s commandments) your H's sexual fantasies of other woman is a sin and real emotional betrayal to you.

What your H is currently doing is a thread to your marriage and very damaging to both of you. The fact that you've mentioned problems like emotional and sexual distancing, becoming very "task oriented" to prove his love for me while still being able to avoid sex, having difficulty with his erection, etc. already proves that this IS a problem!

Texan, the devil wants to make people believe al kinds of lies and one of those lies is that sexual fantasies about other people is normal and healthy. This is not true. I know we are all human beings and sinful creatures (myself included). In general men are more sexual orientated than women, so I understand what you are saying, but the fact remains that this is a sin in God eyes (no matter how you look at it!}. This is true especially if you are married yourself and fantasize about other married people instead of your own spouse!!

Suzet

<small>[ February 12, 2004, 03:04 AM: Message edited by: Suzet ]</small>

Thank you for your replies; I do appreciate them. I have not talked to ANYONE about this, other than my husband. My biggest problem with this whole issue is that my husband now admits that what he was feeling for her is more than just an "infatuation". He says he doesn't understand it, and claims he would never do anything. He says that over the years he has had several young women "offer themselves" to him and that he has always declined. He says he declined because he loves ME, and that it would be wrong.
I can accept his fantasies as "normal" (as I do not see it from a "religious standpoint" although I am aware of what the Bible says about "lusting in your heart" - remember Jimmy Carter anyone?) However, he does admit that he has never had this level of emotional interest in another woman, and that his interest in her was becoming fairly intense. I notice he continues to check for and respond to e/mails from her every single day, at home and at work (I have access, and although I am not proud of spying on him, this is how I originally confirmed my suspicions). We went away on vacation to Fl in early Jan., and while we were there we made love 5 out of 6 days. The day we returned, he contacted her via e/mail 3 times and asked "when can we get together again for lunch"?! He also bought her a "secret" (hah!) gift while we were on vacation, and collected seashells for her (romantic, no?). This, plus much more, is why I am so concerned. Any comments from those who have been there are especially appreciated. We are considering counseling, but I want someone who is unbiased. Thanks.

TTH,

I'll start with a bit of an introduction. I am a male, I am older than your H, but I have never had an affair.

I think your H is lying to himself more than he is lying to you.

1. He thinks he can have contact with this girl and handle it. He clearly cannot.

2. He is NOT addressing why he feels the need to do this. My guess age and the implicit compliment that a girl this young might find him attractive.

3. From your description her response to him is NOT as enthusiastic as his is to her, so he is in a fantasy where she really cares less than he thinks.

4. He thinks that what he is doing will NOT hurt your marriage.

5. He is addicted to her or let's say the fantasy of her.

Those are most obvious lies he is telling himself. I think you really need to insist on NO CONTACT. I think he really needs to get real about this situation. I suspect on one level he is: it cannot work, she IS too young, etc. But on another level, he is in a fantasy.

The fact that your vacation was that intense sexually suggests two things to me. One, he does love you, and two, this monkey business is exciting him. It is like a tonic.

If the later is true, then the possibility that he is depressed or going through MLC are very real. I would guess at his age he is noticing that things aren't functioning like they used to, that he is aging (although we still see ourselves as young <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ). The reality of all of this may make the fantasy a lot more attractive.

You asked "do all men lust after young women?" I would say all men NOTICE young good looking woman. Lust after them? I am not so sure unless you consider a mid-40's woman young? I do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I do think most of us live in our mind when it comes to sexual images and fantasy, but I also know in my case as I have a daughter older than that, that LUST is not really the right word. I have always had a problem with immature women (not cared for them). And 20 year olds are by definition immature.

So maybe I am an anomaly, but I don't think so.

I think your H is sort of self-medicating with this, and that aspect needs to be discussed with him. What is he getting out of this? What is he willing to pay to continue? How many lives is he willing to mess up (starting with hers) to continue this?

He needs to face these questions.

God Bless,

JL

Totally,

I have a problem with Texan's point of view. Is it normal to see a young woman as attractive, YES! I hope he would. It's something completely different to fantasize and persue a relationship of any sort with another woman. He has you to continue to persue. If he were to pursue you in the same way, he would get those gooey fellings about you too.

Suzet's point of view is the one to which I cling. Since I am a WS, I realize that the line that your H says he hasn't crossed is slippery and paper thin. All it could take is one additional factor for a HUGE problem to happen. (ex. too many drinks or someone who is open to his advances).

Talk to him and both of you get help. You want him to find women attractive. That hopefully won't change. He needs to learn appropriate boundries. Without boundries he's not only jeapordizing your marriage but his career. He needs to identify what he's really searching for and work on those issues. Continue to stay open to him in all of the ways you mentioned. Forgive and trust as much as possible. (I know it's much easier said then done.)

Titleist

Thank you all for your replies so far. I am very thankful for this forum, and count myself lucky to have stumbled upon it. Thank you "Titleist" and "Just Learning", as well as others for your replies. I am still struggling mightily with all of this. I love my husband, and he has been what I THOUGHT was the "perfect husband" all these years. Now I wonder if I was/am just a stupid, naive fool and was too blinded by love to see what was going on? We had a long talk last night. As I said previously, he does not deny any longer that he DID crave her attention and WAS somewhat in love with her (in the past). Since I discovered what was going on, he has been very warm and attentive to me, and we have once again rekindled an explosive (and very frequent) sexual relationship. But, I am having a terrible time trusting him - it is like I am a little mentally ill right now! I have never NOT trusted him in our 25 years together; this is something that happened to "other people". Now I seriously wonder about the other times over the years when he has distanced himself from me, and the behavioral pattern was the same. I agree with you "Just Learning", that my H has been struggling with depression for sometime now - and my H agrees with this. I also understand the enormous "ego boost" flirting with a pretty young woman would provide. I want so much to trust him -I still love him more than anything in this world. Funny thing is - he KNOWS this - I have always been very demonstrative and we have always had what I deluded myself into thinking was a great marriage! That is why this is such a shock. He does admit that he has been very wrong, as I have said, but I know in my heart that he very much looks forward to seeing "her" and being around her. After all, she is young and perky and sweet, and hangs on his every word. I'm just his boring old 45 year old wife. So, how do I possibly compete? I also must tell you that I was not totally blameless in all of this. His emotional distancing and coolness over the years has made me become sarcastic and hostile to him at times - and I have turned to alcohol (I am much, much better now - not drinking at all like I used to). I know this sounds like a cop-out, but his continued rejection of me felt like a slap in the face, and alcohol is an easy fix - it never says "no", never turns you away, and does dull the pain. So, I know my personality, and especially anger, was and is very hard for him to handle. His little "fantasy girls" are never angry or sharp with him, I am sure!
I think I am becoming a little "nuts" about this, and certainly obsessed. As I said, he sees her EVERY day - and this cannot be changed. I very much look forward to any and all responses, but as I said, I especially appreciate hearing the male perspective on all this. I know that this forum will perhaps provide a "skewed" population, as I assume that almost everyone on here has been "wronged" in one way or another in a relationship/marriage. Still - I appreciate the input. I am seeking a counselor, and my H agrees that he needs to go as well. Any suggestions on finding a (non-secular) marriage counselor? Thanks again.

<small>[ February 18, 2004, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: TotallyTrustedHim ]</small>

I have two words towards you H's rationalization of his relationship with the 20 something gal:

BOW GUS!

Totally..I would like to add one thing. I used to see the issue about flirting as normal in the work place...no harm...no foul, right? My relationship started out with the OM as just flirting and having fun and before I knew it I was in a full blown PA with him. That harmless flirting has cost me dearly!! Talk to your H and find out what is on his heart and mind. I am probably to the totally opposite extreme now with men but that's ok, I'd rather be careful than sorry....again. Good luck!

I too am a woman, and the BS, but let me add this comment to the already wonderful comments you have received. The turning point for my H and his fantasies was when I brought him to the understanding that I could have fantasies too. And how would he like it if I was fantasizing about one of my coworkers, or in your case a 19 year old boy?

Just want to throw in another comment after I&#8217;ve read Jamup&#8217;s post:

Jamup, you are so right! After my own EA, I&#8217;ve often wondered how I would feel if it was my husband who was having those thoughts and fantasies about another woman (a friend at work). Well, I can&#8217;t even begin to imagine&#8230; So Totally, you must really ask your H how he would feel if it&#8217;s you who&#8217;s fantasizing about someone else AND STILL HAVE CONTACT WITH THAT PERSON EVERYDAY!! If he&#8217;s really honest towards you and himself, he will admit that he will not be ok with that. Why then do you have to be ok with it? And please, if you ask your H this question, don&#8217;t allow him to say &#8220;You know, it&#8217;s different for men&#8221; because if he's saying this it will show that he&#8217;s indeed practicing or believe in double-standards and then it's not fair towards you. You really have reason to be obsessed and concerned about your H's behaviour and ratinalizations about his involvement with this woman!

As Jampup have said, any WS wondering if what they&#8217;re doing is right, must just honestly ask themselves the following question: Would you allow/approve that same thing for your spouse???

This way of questioning was indeed a wake-up-call for me too... I feel very strong about this.

<small>[ February 13, 2004, 03:33 AM: Message edited by: Suzet ]</small>

Well my two cents worth.

Even if nothing is happening right now the potential for something to happen is going on right now.

Secondly emotional affairs even without the physical stuff robs the marriage. He is taking positive feelings and giving them to someone else. And he is getting positive feelings from someone else.

Clearly that is not fair to you.

TTH,

Ok, he is depressed. Get it addressed NOW. Grab him by the ear and march him into the Doc's office. He cannot seem to handle the depression and his affair with 20 yr old proves it. He says he loves you and you love him. I think you would be doing yourself a disservice to assume that your marriage has been a waste of time.

You also said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm just his boring old 45 year old wife. So, how do I possibly compete?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Compete??? Young lady, you have what no 20 year old can hope to have. You have experience, you have love, you KNOW your man, AND clearly he does find you very attractive and sexy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Plus, he knows he has the heart of a woman that IS a woman, not a child. Don't underestimate that last fact.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I also must tell you that I was not totally blameless in all of this. His emotional distancing and coolness over the years has made me become sarcastic and hostile to him at times - and I have turned to alcohol (I am much, much better now - not drinking at all like I used to). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So don't compete with 20 year old, compete with yourself. Who is going to win, the woman that loves her H and wants him happy
AND with her, OR the woman that is sarcastic and hostile, and runs to alcohol when the going gets tough? That is the competition you face: yourself.

I think you know which woman I am rooting for? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know this sounds like a cop-out, but his continued rejection of me felt like a slap in the face, and alcohol is an easy fix - it never says "no", never turns you away, and does dull the pain.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, but it never solved the problem did it? At the pain was still there when the medication wore off.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So, I know my personality, and especially anger, was and is very hard for him to handle. His little "fantasy girls" are never angry or sharp with him, I am sure! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So I ask you again, which woman is going to win? The you that loves him and wants him to be happy with you, or the you that has helped drive him away?

Your choices.

TTH, I know this next statement is going to sound absolutlely nuts to you. But, this may well be the very best thing that EVER happened to your marriage. I am very serious here. All of the actions, the denials, the refusals to address things like depression, alcohol, anger, etc. Have in one way or another have led to this point. You both have choices. Will each of you decide that te other person is important enough to address your issues? If eventually you both do, my guess you will have the marriage you imagined but haven't lived yet. I think you both can be very very happy with one another.

If you one of you does address the issues and the other does NOT, then my guess that the marriage is in trouble, BUT the person that addressed their issues will end up with a far better and happier life.

Only you can address your issues. My recommendation is do it, YOU will be happier for it no matter what happens. But, I would guess that your H will see your changes and he will respond.

It will take time and patience on your part, but I think the "right" TTH will win the competion. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God Bless,

JL

Thank you again to everyone for your thoughts and replies. A special thank you to JL for your very supportive comments - are you a "counselor" or something?! I will be checking back and writing more later if I have time. Also, where do I find the table for the abbreviations that everyone is using? I know I saw it on the first day, and now I can't locate it. Thanks.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I used to see the issue about flirting as normal in the work place...no harm...no foul, right? My relationship started out with the OM as just flirting and having fun and before I knew it I was in a full blown PA with him. That harmless flirting has cost me dearly!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I totally agree Lisa! That is how my PA began. And before that I was convinced that I would never betray my H. Well, it happened. Nobody is immune to an affair.

Tough day for some of us lovers, old and new, huh? H bought me beautiful cards, gifts, (me the same for him), went out to our favorite restaurant, etc., etc. I have a hard time not crying at times. I also think alot about the other posts I have seen on this forum, and the many people who are having a much harder time than me. My heart goes out to them. But today is very, very hard for me, as it is for anyone visiting this segment of the forum. What my husband doesn't really know yet, is that I do not love him like I did - I don't know if I ever will again. I will ALWAYS love him - it is not even a matter of volitional choice. "Now and Forever" - it is written inside our wedding rings. But, the love I have now is tainted with suspicion, despair, caution, and fear. Where he once had total love and abandonment - almost like the love of a child - well, now he will probably never have that again. I wonder if all his years of "fantasy" and my latest discovery of his "infatuation" will be worth it to him. I often told him that MY love would be the one thing in this world that he would never have to question - never have to worry about. Well, now I'm not so sure . . . . More later. Happy Valentine's Day to anyone out there that is happy in love!?

TTH -

I understand your pain and hurting and sense of betrayal, because it has happened to me also. However, remember that love is a choice, and you can continue to love him wholly as you have in the past. True love does not expect or require anything in return.

That does not mean he has the right to hurt you over and over again. But realize that this trial has come into your life at the exact moment you needed it to. Things may not be what you want them to be right now, but at least you are not having to medicate yourself for an unknown reason. At least now you know what you are facing. And this site will give you the support and tools you need to maximize your benefits. I too medicated before I knew with alcohol, for all your reasons. Anti-D's and anti-anxiety meds have nullified my need for alcohol. Be open to that possiblity. Talk to your doctor openly and honestly. I am so grateful I did that.

I encourage you to take advantage of all this good advice. And to also really look at your love, what love means to you. He is misguided right now and not thinking straight - you are capable of guiding you both out of this situation you find yourself in. Take the lead, be strong, have FAITH in LOVE. Do everything you believe your spouse would do for you if the roles were reversed - or that you would hope he would do. Anyone can become lost - it takes a special person to be a hero.

Take heart and love him. Protect yourself and your love, but love him.

Amy

Thank you to all who have responded; there are some very supportive and thoughtful people who visit this forum, many who have "been there" themselves. A special thank you to JL and Amy for their support and suggestions. You both have made excellent points that I have taken to heart. I HAVE changed my behavior dramatically since New Year's (I had mentioned before that I had made it my NY's resolution even before I had found out about my husbands wandering mind/affections, to try to control my negativity and hostility. I never thought I directed much of my anger at him - he was/is the one thing in my life that I THOUGHT was almost perfect. But, I have known for almost our entire life together that my husband cannot take anger - esp. of the female variety - more on that later). He also never fully understood that HE was the source of some of some of my frustration, if not anger, and that I felt that he was emotionally distant, sometimes for long periods of time. As I mentioned in a previous post, it became a viscious cycle.
JL what you have suggested is very, very astute. I believe that the implicit reward in the mental relationships that my husband has had with young women over the years is the ego boosting/stroking and the "adoration" he receives. I have ALWAYS known that my husband craves approval, especially of the female variety. His parents were very critical and he could never satisfy them, but his mother was especially cool, and was a very angry person. When she became angry, she was not physically violent to him or his father, but she was verbally aggressive I guess, and she then would often hold a grudge and do the "witholding of love" thing - sometimes for weeks (I am very truthfully NOTHING like this). My H says he knows his mother loved him, but she was a very hard woman to make happy. So, playing amateur psychologist here, it is not too difficult to understand why he craves female adoration. He also has told me many times in the past that he likes women much better than men; he feels he has more in common with them, and I know he is drawn to their emotional sensitivity. He is a sensitive man.

I think you are also right JL that my husband may really be truthful that he would never truly persue anything (physical) with these young women (he claims he HAS had several offers over the years and always resisted "because it would be wrong and because I love you"). I feel that despite the ever widening emotional chasm between us and some of the un-met emotional needs, we still have a great love for each other and DO put alot into each others "love bank". But, having read many of the letters in this forum, and Dr. Harley's articles, I now know that almost all the people who visit here never INTENDED to have an affair. They CONNECTED emotionally with someone else, that person met the emotional needs they craved, and then it did not take long for them to make rationalizations for jumping into a full-blown PA. This is why I am so terrified about the relationship I discovered between my H and his "infatuation". You just do not DO what he did - you do not YEARN desperately for a little crumb of attention/contact from someone who you are just "infatuated" with - it went way beyond this.

In my husbands line of work, he is in contact with young people all the time. He has gotten older, and on the rational/cognitive level, he knows this (but as you mention JL, many of us do not FEEL old/older). The population of students he is in contact with year after year obviously stays the same. I do not think he purposely seeks out young women - that is just who he is continually in contact with all of these years. I do not think that even in his wildest dreams my H ever thought I would find out his pattern of behavior. He seems genuinely heartbroken and upset at the pain he has caused me. I think he may have seen his behavior as something that was not hurting anyone, and it would never hurt me because I would never know. Now I DO know, and it is heartbreaking to me. I think that his behavior has less to do with short-comings on my part, than it has to do with deep seated emotional needs of his own. As Dr. Harley states in one of his articles, we only THINK we are in control of our behavior. Most of us are controlled, if only on a sub-conscious level, by long standing patterns of behavior and "instinct". We intuitively know what types of behaviors nurture us - that is why we return to them. My H has had "needs" that he found an expression or outlet for, that he thought was harmless. Now that I know about it, it will have to change. I can't live with him having long term fantasies/"infatuations" about 20 year olds!

Another thing that I have mentioned to my husband is that these young women stand to benefit handsomely from his help and attention. My H has always been very helpful to all of his serious students, both male and female. He does not do their papers/tests/research for them, but he is invaluable to them in suggesting multiple ideas/angles, and doing a lot of preliminary research for them (downloading lots of web-info. for them for example). I have suggested that these young women KNOW the power they have over men - I knew when I was young! They KNOW that their youthfulness/sexiness is powerful, and many women are masters at manipulating men. I do not think that my husband at this point expected any sexual "reward" from his current fantasy girl, but he does get a boost to his ego, and very probably some sexual stimulation. As you suggested JL, his contact with her is a "tonic". She gets invaluable help and assistance from him on the academic level (he even "loaned" her his department lap-top computer for an undetermined period of time!?), he gets positive reinforcement, an ego boost, and her very spirited thankfulness in return. I scanned the article on "Co-Dependency" by Dr. Harley, and I am certain that some of what he talks about fit my husband to a "T". The fact that much of what my H does professionally has little to do with the "joy" of a job well done, or self-satisfaction. He seeks recognition and thanks, and gets very little professionally from his colleages. These young women fill the void in his search for recognition - he has become co-dependent on the way this gratefulness/recognition makes him feel.

JL, you are also right in stating: Quote - "I know that this next statement is going to sound absolutely nuts to you. But, this may well be the very best thing that EVER happened to your marriage". My husband and I both see it this way. My husband has said that, "in a way, I am glad you found my e/mails and this is all out in the open". We had been drifting apart for the past couple of years, despite all that we have going for us. I had given up trying to address my needs with him; I HAD tried unsuccessfully several times over the years to express to him what his emotional distancing did to me. Things would get better for awhile, and then, we would fall back on our old behaviors. It took this crisis to take a really hard look at ourselves, and realize that we are STILL very much in love. We will have to work hardest to change HIS behavior though I think. I cannot share him - even a tiny bit of his heart. I have told him this. His behavior has to change. No more close emotional attachments to young women. No more sexual fantasies about women he is in frequent contact with. To me, he CANNOT truly love me, and continue with this pattern . . . . .

Amy, I DO choose to LOVE my H. He is really, basically a "keeper", and a good guy. I don't think he ever, ever intended to hurt me. But, my love for my H. is so deep, and has such a long history, that it goes beyond choice now . . . . I will ALWAYS love him, even if we were to divorce. He is in my soul forever. I will leave this earth with his heart attached to mine. But I find that my love is just not the same right now -it is "damaged". I do hope that I will be able to again love him with total abandon and trust. This is lost to me now, and I feel it is something he has "stolen" from me!? He may agree that he WILL change his behavior, but how do I ever really convince myself that it is true, and trust him again?

To other respondents (mostly women) who asked if I had asked my H what if the "shoe were on the other foot" - what if I had persistant sexual fantasies about a very young male with whom I had very frequent contact, or what if I had given even a bit of my heart in an EA? My H says that he would choose to trust me to not make a tragic/bad decision in the first instance (the fantasies). However, he admitted that he would be crushed if he ever found that I had been involved in an intense emotional affair or had such emotional longing to be with and share with another man. He does not argue that he would be very confused as I am, and also wonder where he was lacking and where he had left me so vulnerable and alone. He understands all of this, and seems to grasp that, to me, even if he could and did resist a PA with another woman, it is ALMOST as bad that he has allowed another woman to capture his imagination/energies so much. And, he has allowed another woman (who doesn't even KNOW it) to hold a bit of his heart -if only lightly - if only briefly . . . . . This is what hurt so badly, as many of you know.

Sorry for my exceptionally LONG last post. I guess I am using this forum as a type of "journal" and it is somewhat therapeutic for me. I keep reading that the WS interest/passion for the OP will NEVER abate until he is kept from all contact with that OP. In my H's case - that is impossible; I can't even suggest it. The object of his desire (who I truly believe is innocent of any wrongdoing herself - she is living with her boyfriend, and if I can believe my husband she is "gaga" in love with her boyfriend)is his advisee/student/teaching assistant - until early May. After that, she may be gone for a year, but when she returns, she still has two years as a student in my husbands dept! She is in 3 of his classes this semester (9 hours per week) and also works in his depts. lab. I absolutely CANNOT bring it up to any of his colleagues. So, my husband will have contact with her for several more years. Although he says he would NEVER do anything (even if I had never discovered the EA) - he thinks I should just be able to trust him and his love for me?! Problem is - I do NOT trust him; probably never will again. I have read in some of Dr. Harley's articles that it is NOT lack of trust that kills marriages, but our marriage was based upon mutual trust, respect and LOVE for 25 years. Hard to change your way of thinking after that long a period of time.

BS (?) me 45
WS (?) H 56
Year together - almost 25
Years married - almost 23
Children - none
Found EA 1/9/04; very possibly several others
H denies ANY PA ever

TTH,

I do think you will get your full feelings back for your H. I also think you identified something very powerful in his needs (approval from females). So given this I would like to respond to something you said. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> We will have to work hardest to change HIS behavior though I think. I cannot share him - even a tiny bit of his heart.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree but not in the way you are thinking. I will offer some ideas in a minute.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have told him this. His behavior has to change. No more close emotional attachments to young women. No more sexual fantasies about women he is in frequent contact with. To me, he CANNOT truly love me, and continue with this pattern . . . . .</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, you are right and you are wrong. What he does need is sexual fantasies, AND he needs frequent contact with the woman he has fantasies about. And yes he can love you and should continue this pattern.

YOU should be the female he has sexual fantasies about, and YOU should be the woman he has frequent contact with.

So let's stop and think about this. You strongly suspect his Mother's treatment of him made him crave approval and more importantly approval from a female. Right?

Next, you know that a young ENTHUSIASTIC female that is happy for is attention and help, will draw his attention on a variety of levels, right? Notice the word I capitalized???

Next, you know he does have sexual fantasies, right? Do you?

So here is what I am thinking. He needs approval from females, but to get that he must do something they approve of, right? What does he do that you approve of and how do you express it to him?

TTH, I am suggesting that you take control of this recovery by asking/suggesting/strongly suggesting/ that your H please you. Perhaps it is in bed, meeting some of your sexual fantasies. Perhaps it is in attention to you, and acts of love, to show you that he does love you (you need to tell him what you need here). Then when he does these things, you do show ENTHUSIASM for him and in your thanks to him.

Next, you need to LOVE him, as in the verb. I believe you mentioned that sex is still something you both enjoy and do regularly. Use this tool to both express YOUR ENTUSIASM for him, and for him to show you. I am betting you suggest/do somethings that will have him thinking about you all day long. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Men are particularly vulnerable to suggestion or images that are suggested. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Here is my thinking. Most affairs start not when someone receives care and attention but when they give it. Most people would prefer to fantasize and have a fantasy come true with someone they care about alot. You telling him what you need and allowing him to love you, will build his for you. Your greatfulness and enthusiasm will be the feedback that cements the relationship.

Please think about this. He is always going to be around young people. Young people are often attractive if only because of their energy and enthusiasm. Looks maybe but the other two things are very attractive, and YOU can have them, use, them and enjoy them just as well as they can. We just forget to do this.

I think with a little imagination you can have your H thinking about you most of the time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> You don't want to be thinking of you as the used victim of his stupidity, although I am sure that feels pretty good right now. You want him craving YOU.

Smile at him, touch him, laugh with and at him, give him recognition and tell him what you need from him. And the show him how to do it.

You can do this, and I think you can have a very very successful marriage and feelings for each such as you have NOT had in many years if ever. You have to be sort of "out there", and up front with him. But, I have a feeling that he will do anything you want IF he knows it will please you and he learns that it in FACT DOES please you.

Men do like their W's to be happy, and he may need that more than most. Some would consider that a strength, but if it isn't properly addressed by you it can become a liability. Use his strengths and desires as they should be used.

You have a lot of control and power her, use it to make you both happy.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL