D-day was 4.5 days ago and I'm holding together as well as can be expected, I guess. My husband has ended the A, we've talked A LOT, and I think we're headed in the right direction. First problem though is that I'm having a hard time getting the visions of them together out of my head. I read emails between them so I did get some great details about their physical contacts. Any advice on how to get over that? Will I ever be able to have physical contact with him and not think about him doing to her what he's doing to me? My second problem is that I'm still in the discovering phase. My husband has been very open and has answered all my questions (even when they hurt me) but as I realize more details I feel like I slip back into an angry state rather than trying to focus on a positive future. For example, today when the CD player in my car broke I thought about putting the portable CD player in the car and then realized that...dummy. That's why he took it with him on his last business trip (they were legitimate business trips. My husband just had the added bonus of sleeping with his boss)...not because the rented car didn't have a CD player like he said but because he wanted to play romantic music for her...which then, in turn, makes me visualize them listening to the music which then makes me realize that not only did they just sleep together but actually lived as a couple for the 3 or 4 days they were on these business trips...which then reminds me of the email that I read describing how the staff on the plane commented about 'how in love they looked' and then I feel the need to vomit. I'm home changing diapers and they're...well, you know. I'm sorry I'm so long winded but does anyone have any advice for me? How do I get these thoughts out of my head and how many questions should I ask? Part of me says I should ask so I don't drive myself crazy thinking things that might not have happened but then another part of me says I don't need to ask because I haven't been wrong with my assumptions yet. I just want to get past this and get our love back (and I truly think he does too)...but as I just finished that sentence I thought, oh my god he slept with another woman and told her he loved her (even though I know he didn't but just thinks he did). When their business trip ended I'm sure he said he didn't want to leave her which in turn means he didn't want to return to me which makes me angry and this vicious cycle returns. Help me please!!! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<small>[ February 13, 2004, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: confusedbymoc ]</small>

confused -

First of all, take a deep breath. It's so early for you yet since it's only a few days since d-day. Things will get better.

I had thoughts like yours (one after another, then on to another) that made me sick and created an anxiety attack. These lasted pretty much the first three months (at leasts for me). When I felt it happening, I just tried to find a place by myself and let myself cry it out to get past it as fast as I could.

After three months, the thoughts don't come on so often, then as you move forward they come even less. I would just encourage to learn what you want to know about the A now if that's possible so that you don't have a setback in the future.

My H was not honest with me about the A...even after he said he would answer any question I had. I had a second d-day at about three months later (OW's H told me a lot of stuff that H left out). So, if your husband is willing to tell you anything you want to know, I would get it all out in the open now.

Take care of yourself first. Talk to an IC and MC. Talk to someone else besides your husband to clear your head. Write stuff down in a journal.

I know how you feel...in fact, just reading your post makes me feel a little bit of that anxiety feeling that I experienced last summer.

What you are going through is normal. It's going to take time. Take care of yourself first.

Are you guys seeing an MC?

Take care.

sss

Thanks sss. This is all just so crazy. I read somewhere that something like 50% of all marriages have one member that strays. Today I went to get the mail and I looked up the street and thought, 'oh gosh there are 24 other people on this block who have or will feel like me'. That's morbid. It just should not be that way.

Anyone have the answer to this question...is it normal for me to feel guilty and ashamed when I'm not even the one who cheated? My husband told me this evening that he told one of his friends about his A. It was one of his co-workers who also works with the OW so he knows both of us. I'm just mortified by this. I'm so embarrassed and I want to just hide under a rock. I guess I just feel that if I hadn't failed my husband he wouldn't have looked elsewhere and does the world really need to know that I'm a failure? I really want to contact the friend's wife (we're friends by association) and apologize to her that she had to hear about my husband's A. I'm sorry that she had to find out that I'm a failure.

You know I've always dreamed about the future with my family. Watching my children grow up, graduate from college, fall in love and get married. Start families of their own. I dream of vacations with my family, summers out on the deck...and in all my dreams my husband and I are always together standing proudly by each others side. My husband taught me the meaning of true love and made me believe in the concept of marriage. He made me believe that happiness in life was possible. How ironic is that?

From the moment he first told me he loved me I thought I was the luckiest woman in the world. No, he's wasn't perfect by any means but he adored me, he treated me like gold. He just truly made my world.

The scary thing is that I still have these dreams. I still smile as I think about our family's future...when I think of my husband's love for me and than SLAM! Reality slaps me in the face and says, "Look lady, your husband just slept with another woman. You're living in a fantasy world."

What does that say about my sense of reality? I guess I'm no different than anyone reading this when I question if the last 12+ years of my life have been a lie, if true happiness is really possible...

It's 11pm on a Friday night and I'm sitting here alone wondering what I did to deserve this. Wondering what we all did to deserve this. Life is hard enough. Shouldn't we at least be able to end the day in the arms of someone who loves us unconditionally. Someone who dreams only of us. Someone who thinks that the sun rises and falls with us. If not, then why did life even bring us together with our spouses. Why did life show us love just to rip it away from us. And how is any of this fair for any of our children?

Maybe I should just stop feeling sorry for myself. I have three amazing children and despite our problems I did have 12 years of a faithful marriage.

Anyway, I'm sorry I'm all over the place and I appreciate anyone who was able to get through this post without thinking...what a wacko. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I guess I just needed to get these feelings out of my head so they'd stop spinning around in there. I'm just feeling so alone and I know this is a place where I don't have to feel that way.

Thanks and may we all find the strength to heal from our pain.

confused -

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anyone have the answer to this question...is it normal for me to feel guilty and ashamed when I'm not even the one who cheated? My husband told me this evening that he told one of his friends about his A. It was one of his co-workers who also works with the OW so he knows both of us. I'm just mortified by this. I'm so embarrassed and I want to just hide under a rock. I guess I just feel that if I hadn't failed my husband he wouldn't have looked elsewhere and does the world really need to know that I'm a failure? I really want to contact the friend's wife (we're friends by association) and apologize to her that she had to hear about my husband's A. I'm sorry that she had to find out that I'm a failure. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess this is a normal feeling. I seem to recall others posting about this. Plus I had the same feelings. I felt so ashamed, so stupid, like a big loser and still do on some days. I remember when my parents were here for Thanksgiving (they both know about the A - I told them about a week after d-day) I felt so ashamed the whole time they were here. Like I let them down somehow. Like, I know they would have wanted something much better for me that to be Mrs. Serial Cheater.

In all my pain and agony after finding out, I also told two of my friends. Of course, they advised me to "dump him". Since I haven't dumped him, it seems like I don't see them as often anymore. Makes me again feel like I've done something wrong.

Anyway...you did not fail your husband! HE FAILED YOU. You might not have been meeting some of his needs, but he needed to tell you, not have an A. He made the choice entirely on his own to have an A rather than talk to you or take your feelings into consideration.

You are the better person...not the OW. I finally saw a picture of the last OW involved with my H. She is NOTHING compared to me. I'm in shock that H even looked twice at her.

It is so tough I know. Things will get better, especially if your H went NC with OW and wants to work hard to go through recovery.

Post back and let us know how you are doing.

Take care confused!

sss

Keep your eyes open.

My husband told me about the affair and ended it. But he lied many times after that until i ended up in Plan B. Remember the Fog is very very strong.

A lot of forummers warned me about the fog. Did he show any signs that he ended it? Ask him if it is okay for you to snoop and see his reaction. If he gets angry than that is a red flag.

Don't feel ashamed. It is not your fault.

Take care and hope the best for you


Female age 37 WS-age 37
Known 18 years Married 9 years
DD age 5
OW - 20/unmarried
8/sep/03 - Dday
22/sep/03 - Dday & expose to family & friends
17/0ct/03 - Dday
29/Dec/03 - Dday & Told him to move out.
15/1/04 - Plan A
23/1/04 - Expose A at Office
6/2/04 Expose A to OW parents
8/2/04 Plan B

Thank you sss. I guess I'm forgetting to 'ignore his fog'. Easier said than done. I did tell him that it was his choice to have an A and therefore he had to take the responsibility for his actions but when I think about the magical love that we used to have I just can't understand how things went so wrong. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not in the fog that we had the perfect marriage by any means but, in truth, I never doubted our love for each other (even if, at times, it got buried under the surface).

I guess I feel like I do because I'm the one that's trying to get him to fall back in love with me. He tells me now that 'if he'd only known how I feel' before...He's right in the sense that I did close off but I can guarentee that it was in response to him closing me off. I guess we were both in withdrawal because of all the stress in our lives but one of us didn't cheat as a result of it.

I don't have any doubts about my feelings for him. He's told me that what we've shared since d-day is helping him to begin falling in love with me again. I guess because I'm the one trying to fill up his love bank to try to get his feelings back I feel like I'm the one who did wrong.

I do believe that he's ended the A. The struggle that I'm having is that they still have daily contact by phone and email. There is no way around that since she is his boss. I told him that it was important to me that they only have business contact and never discussed personal things. He agreed to this but I don't know what will happen with that. There is no way for me to know other than to just believe what he tells me. He said he'll be requesting a transfer at the end of his current project (which he says that she suggested also) so that he'll work for someone else but this project isn't going to be over any time soon and there is no way the higher ups would take either of them off the project. We're 4 hours from his home office so I know that the only physical contact they will have is on a business trip (and none are planned for a while) but the trouble started with the emotional contact not the physical contact. I know that the OW is afraid that I'll tell her husband about the A so I'm hoping that that will help her keep her distance. Even assuming that the A is over I still feel like I'm forced to share him with her. Leaving his job is not an option at this point.

Today we spent the day as a family. I don't remember the last time that has happened. We even took the kids shopping and to lunch (they're 5, 2.5, and 1 so this is a huge outing). I had trouble eating and my husband commented on it. I don't eat much anymore since I usually wind up sick. Hey, maybe soon I'll be thin like her. Actually, like you said, I'm amazed that he could be physically attracted to her. She is 9 years older than him, her teeth are funky, and, while I'm no Miss America, I'd rather look at my face in the mirror than hers. Guess it doesn't do any good to dwell on that though does it?

Zizzycool, I appreciate your warnings. My husband is a fantastic liar so I'm sure he could pull one over on me if he truly wanted to. With that in mind, I have to try to trust him. If I can't than how will we ever get past this? I did ask him today for his email password (I had previously accessed the account and read their emails to each other but once he found out I knew he changed the password) and he handed it over without hesitating. This morning he was playing around with his cell phone when I walked into the kitchen. He has no reason to be on it since he uses it only for work (thus her) and when I questioned he handed it right over for me to check 'recent calls'. I don't know. Right now I can only take life moment by moment and at this moment I think he's being honest when he says the A is over and he wants to rebuild our relationship.

Again, my apologies for my long-windedness.

I still have visions of my FWH with OW and it has been almost five months since D-Day. Sleep doesn't even help because I dream of him with OW. Even when we make it through SF without the thoughts of whether he is comparing me to her or what they did together, I find myself feeling ashamed and embarrassed after SF.

I feel humiliated that my H was unfaithful. I wonder how many knew, or at least "suspected" he was having an affair -- both PAs were with coworkers in the past twelve years. He is a major flirt and I believe lots of people at least suspected, and probably spread rumors about him. Those thoughts make me feel like such a fool for trusting him. I avoid being around people that know us and especially people that work with my H. I look at other couples and wonder, "is he cheating on her?" or "is she cheating on him?" because I know the prevalence of EMAs now.

I don't believe I will ever trust my H again. I think there will always be that voice in the back of my head that says he could do this again. I am almost convinced I am better off alone so no one can ever hurt me like this again.

I guess it is all normal from reading everyone's posts and it sucks.

confused -

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do believe that he's ended the A. The struggle that I'm having is that they still have daily contact by phone and email. There is no way around that since she is his boss. I told him that it was important to me that they only have business contact and never discussed personal things. He agreed to this but I don't know what will happen with that. There is no way for me to know other than to just believe what he tells me. He said he'll be requesting a transfer at the end of his current project (which he says that she suggested also) so that he'll work for someone else but this project isn't going to be over any time soon and there is no way the higher ups would take either of them off the project. We're 4 hours from his home office so I know that the only physical contact they will have is on a business trip (and none are planned for a while) but the trouble started with the emotional contact not the physical contact. I know that the OW is afraid that I'll tell her husband about the A so I'm hoping that that will help her keep her distance. Even assuming that the A is over I still feel like I'm forced to share him with her. Leaving his job is not an option at this point. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">IMO, you need to tell OW's H. What if he found out about the A but did not say anything to you? Wouldn't you want him to tell you?

Your H needs to get another job and go NC with OW immediately. Continued contact will probably keep him in his fog and the A will be ongoing...at least as EA.

Wouldn't you rather *know* the A has ended and NC enforced rather than just believe and hope.

I think recovery will be impossible while there's still contact.

Hang in there and take care.

Toofargone - glad you posted again. How are you doing? I hope okay.

Take care.

sss

sss, I hear you. I would certainly feel more comfortable if they truly had NC but he can't quit his job. I'm home with the kids so his is the only income. I've talked with him about my feelings and he said he's thought about it and is planning to try to keep contact to emails as much as possible so there is less chance of the conversations 'straying'. This will definitely be a HUGE obsticle to recovery and I know you're right that he needs another job but I know it's not an immediate option.

Let me ask you...I've been doing everything I can to fill his love bank and express my feelings to him in ways that he says please him (and don't displease me). He says that he has no doubt that he will be in love with me again but that he does need some time to get back to that (meaning this doesn't get resolved overnight not that he needs time to think about where he wants to be). He's a pretty closed person normally but has always expressed his feelings toward me in deep meaningful ways (prior to the past year anyway). I can't read him now though. He says that what I'm doing makes a difference but I feel absolutely no love from him. I still feel such distance. Am I looking for too much at this point? If things are really going in the right direction when should I expect signs of that? I'm not feeling too many deposits in my love bank. I'm willing to wait (according to marriage builders he won't get over his feelings for the OW overnight) but at the same time I don't want to make a fool out of myself.

Actually, I shouldn't really say there is nothing. He spent the entire day with his family yesterday (and I truly can't remember when the last time was that we were a family like that), he's been off the computer all weekend, took 3 days off next week (hasn't taken a day off in well over a year), and while I'd like to say it's great that he's at the store now buying food to make me dinner I'm not sure that counts. He did the same thing last Sunday and while he was cooking that's when the instant message came over his computer with the 'I miss you' message from the OW - d-day. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I guess when I think about it he did spend some time talking to me last night in the middle of the night (couldn't sleep so I woke him up to talk). And, although I hate to admit I'm snooping, I did check his phone for past calls and found that she's been removed from his phone book (I never questioned her being there since she is his boss and they work 4 hours apart. They've got to communicate somehow). I guess when I write it out like this it is a lot for him in a short period of time (tonight will only be a week since d-day). I'm asking for too much, aren't I?

Let me ask you one more question and then I'll stop 'chewing your ear off'. I would love to tell the OW's husband. It eats me up that I'm going through this and she's completely gotten away with her betrayal with no consequences for her actions but I'm worried that telling him will hinder our recovery. I'm sure she'd tell my husband (but I'm not sure that I'd hide that from him anyway though...dishonesty is his game, not mine) and I know he wouldn't be pleased. There is also a possibility that she would hold it against my husband in the work environment. He's expressed no concern over this but we all know how vindictive women can be <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . The other thing is that she's got children. So do I but they're too young to even know there's a problem (my oldest is 5 and draws pictures of his 'happy family' all the time). Assuming we can work through this there is no reason for them to ever know this has happened. No reason for them to have any 'issues' linked to dealing with such betrayal. Her children are older and would be aware of what's happening. From her point, I think she deserves to have her children look down on her but why make them live with the knowledge that their mother is a sl*t? My parents were divorced when I was young due to my father cheating and I'll tell you that the actions of both of my parents have left lasting impressions on me that effect me even to this day.

Thank you. Truly, from the bottom of my heart, thank you for caring.

confusedbymoc,

Your early recovery seems headed in the right direction, though it seems to be in a stall to you. But what everyone here is saying is absolutely right. It is very difficult to recover with continued contact, especially the contact of the sort between your H and OW. It is too easy for them to slip back into the A.

Her H should be told NOW. This will put OW on her guard to "be good" if she wants to keep her marriage intact. She might even come clean with some others at the company who will then separate the two of them quickly. Your H has had his eyes opened and OW needs to have her eyes opened, too. And the way you do this is expose the affair.

Do not worry about their marriage. You are afraid that, "her children are older and would be aware of what's happening. From her point, I think she deserves to have her children look down on her but why make them live with the knowledge that their mother is a sl*t?" My children are in their teens and none of them was aware of what happened. Their relationships with their father have not been soured.

OW's H, however, when he found out four months after our dday, let the entire world know. He treated his wife like a sl*t (which she really wasn't) and her young children know everything (when they shouldn't know anything at all). So how her husband will react and how they will deal with the marital problems (publicly or privately) really isn't your concern.

Your only objective is to protect your marriage. And exposing the affair to her husband will make it more difficult for the A to restart. Please consider doing this.

God bless.

Snow

confused -

Glad to help. It feels so weird helping others sometimes as I feel I still need a lot of help myself. Having a bad, down day today.

Anyway, it sounds like your recovery is headed in the right direction. It will probably be awhile before you feel love coming from your husband. It does sound like he is trying with communicating, spending time with your family, taking days off, etc. It sounds really good.

You do need to tell the OW's H. NOW. It will help to kill the A. Bringing their fantasy to the light of day will help keep it from starting up again. Just think of OW's poor H. He may or may not suspect something, but he's completely in the dark. He does not know what his W is doing. He needs to know. I agree with snowbelle.

When I told the OW's H, he was so grateful. He suspected something was going on and was relieved to find out. In addition, he and I worked together to fill in the pieces of what happened in the A since intitially neither my H or his OW was being entirely truthful. It's hard, but I'll have to admit that I was glad I did it. I felt that I had somebody else on my side to prevent the A from starting up yet again.

I do care about you. So does everyone else here at MB.

Take care and let me know how you are doing.

sss

<small>[ February 15, 2004, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: stillsosad ]</small>

sss, thank you so much. I'm sorry that your pain continues but, if it helps at all, your pain is helping others...especially me. Sometimes I laugh. I was a counselor for about 8 years after college and before children. That should be against the law. What life experiences had I had that made me feel qualified to help others?

What was your husband's reaction when he found out you told the OW's H about the affair? I guess I just fear that if I said something the OW would confront my husband. Since he still has some feelings for her (and she probably still has them for him) I wonder if my H couldn't be convinced by her that he's made a horrible mistake and return to her (because from what I've heard about her husband he doesn't seem like the type that would be as 'understanding' as I've been).

Sometimes I feel so good about the way things are going. Sometimes I feel like such a fool. All the time I know I'll always have a doubt about his feelings for me. This morning he kissed me and held me tight. He told me he loved me and I asked him not to tell me that. I don't doubt that he loves me but he's not 'in love' with me. He responded, "I do love you. Give it time. The rest will come with time. I will make you happy again. I promise you that. Just give it time." Of course I cried in the shower for 20 minutes (who am I kidding, I'm still crying).

Perhaps that counselor in me is just reading too much into things. I justify believing him by thinking that he really never stopped loving me. That life just handed him too much he couldn't deal with so he withdrew into work to escape. Since she's his boss and work became his life she was more able to fill his LB than I was. He responded to that and subconsciously, to justify his feelings about her, he convinced himself I didn't love him and thus buried his true love for me. Then the devil comes out and gives me the other option. My husband is truly a caring person who I don't think would deliberately hurt anyone. I know he cares about me because of our past and our children and feels guilty about hurting someone he 'cares' about so he's trying to make that right. He doesn't really love me but is trying to put his feelings for her out of his head because of his guilt of hurting me. He is disappointed in himself because he's always said he would NEVER cheat on anyone (I know he feels this way) and to try to get rid of that feeling he's going to force himself to feel again for me. I was happy the other day when I realized that he had removed her numbers from his cell phone phone book but as my brain continues to run wild I realize that he probably did that so I wouldn't have access to her numbers (too late for that). He has to continue to call her because of work so why remove them?

I'm crazy, right? I just can't get his words to her out of my mind. "I just hate leaving you because I know that you and I being together is just so damn right. Like having the sun hit your face just right and you feel the warmth of its glow." And then her response of, "Mmmm - I was thinking this morning that it won't be long till I wake up next to you again." Okay, I know I'm supposed to believe this is him being in a fog but knowing that these emails were passed to each other with my husband sitting at my kitchen table while I'm running around doing his laundry so he's ready for his business trip (with her)...sigh. I'm standing next to him, kissing him goodbye and telling him to have a safe trip and he can't get out of the house and to the mall to by candles and massage oils fast enough. This was 2 weeks ago (1 week before d-day).

Oh man, this day is not starting out very well. It's 9am and I've already changed 4 diapers, dressed, washed, fed the kids, trudged through the snow with 2 dogs, dried 100s of tears, kissed one boo-boo, finished 2 loads of laundry, did the dishes, cleaned the bathroom, made the beds and cried through it all. Yesterday I paid the credit card bill (with the charges for the massage oils, bath gels, and candles) and the phone bill (with calls to her). It made me sick. I had a glass of wine (I am not a drinker) hoping that my shakes would stop but I'm still shaking. When do the shakes stop? When will I be able to eat again without feeling/getting sick?

Things were so good this weekend. Things just felt so right (at least when I could get my mind off of them together). Now we're not in each other's sight and I wonder what he's thinking/feeling. I want so badly to believe his words and to believe that he's saying them for the right reasons. If only he could have come clean when I confronted him rather than me having to snoop into the emails. Their words to each other are killing me. I have a note on my desk that says, "Ignore the Fog". Sometimes it helps me focus but it's not working today <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I hope your day is going well. I'm going to try to focus on my kids today to escape these racing thoughts. They're just so awesome.

confused -

Glad you posted back. I know coming to this site often during the day helped me a great deal, especially in the first few months. You just feel so crazy and out of it after d-day. It helps to know there are other "crazies" out there too. LOL

My H was pissed when I notified OW's H. But let me tell you why...

H immediately went NC with OW on d-day, without me even asking him too. He never seemed like he was going through withdrawal or in a fog, ever. I don't think he truly cared about OW...it was just the sex (and bad sex at that!?!).

After about a week, I decided that I would try MC with him. In the first few sessions of MC, C said that H needed to answer my questions regarding the A. Bring everything out in the open. Some people require more info/details than others, but whatever I wanted to discuss, he needed to be honest with me and answer. We sat down together and H finally answered my questions...or so I thought.

At the encouragement of others here at MB, I notifed OW's H about 3 months after d-day. I couldn't do it any sooner because I didn't think I could get through the phone call to him without bawling my head off. I told H that I notified OW's H. He didn't really say much...said he didn't care...but I sensed he was uptight.

Once OW'S H was notified, OW started singing like a bird about their 1st A together and this A. Found out a whole bunch of stuff that H lied about or did not tell me (standard lines of he didn't want to hurt me even more, or I didn't ask that specific question). It came out in MC that H was really pissed that I notified OW's H...only because his lies were sure to be uncovered...not because of any feelings he had for OW.

My H has had several A's...in his first M and in our M. He was never held accountable for these A's until now. I don't think his first W cared...I think it was a relief for her to not have SF with him...she was mainly after money and security. So H just skated along for about 20 years with multiple A's and doing whatever he pleased.

I called him on it. Brought everything out in the open. OW's H even called him and told him that if he ever set foot in his state again, he would break every bone in his body. Let me tell you, H has been shook up by this whole thing...seeing my devastation, hearing the anger from OW's H, etc. I really don't think he'll have another A after this. If he does, then he's one selfish sick person!

You need to tell OW's H!

I know I still have a hard time with what H said to OW in emails, voice mails and what OW said to H. I know it's hard to do, but if you just think that this was all *fantasy talk* it makes it easier. Just think of your H *play-acting* with OW. That's all it was. Her words were feeding his ego...could have been anybody doing it!

All I can tell you about the shakes, not eating, feeling sick is that it started to lessen for me after about three months. I still have days when it happens but not as often.

One thing that happened to me after d-day was the tremendous amout of anxiety I felt and still feel sometimes. It's caused digestive problems...my stomach is constantly upset, etc. Can't go to the bathroom, can't stop going to the bathroom... So much so that I went to a DR. about it and now have to have a colonoscopy tomorrow. That will be just loads of fun!

My god girl, you've put in a full days work already today. Don't forget to find time for yourself.

Take care. I'll check back later today to see if you posted again.

sss

Yup, me again. Back on the boards reading and just trying to make it through this day. Oh, how I hope tomorrow is a better day. I just can't seem to stop crying....ahhhhh

My god girl, you've put in a full days work already today. Don't forget to find time for yourself.

Ha! That is only what I do by 9am. It's non-stop at my house. All things I thought would make my husband happy (he even had to ask me yesterday where we kept the toilet paper because he hasn't had to look for it in the 3 1/2 months we've been in this house...and had his A not overtaken my life he still wouldn't have needed to know where it was). I do it all and I do it all for him and for my children. I thought I was showing I loved him but I guess the OW did a better job at showing it. (Shaking my head trying to clear it of my negative thoughts...not working very well today).

My H called this afternoon just to check in. He said he bought us a gift. Immediately I got defensive wondering if what he got was something he had shared with 'her'. Like I said, it's a bad day full of visions of them together...I know what a massage from my husband is like (very sexy) and knowing that he bought massage oils on their three 'escapades' together how dare him think he could get away with that as a gift for us. Jumping down his throat I told him I'd had enough surprises lately so he better da*m well tell me what he got.

So now I sit here and cry and wonder if I'll be able to make it through the evening without ruining everything with my 'visions'. He said, "I got us a nice bottle of champagne and two small bottles (shot sized) of Southern Comfort. Remember when we used to get those when we first started out? I thought maybe we could enjoy some time together like we used to."

Back in our earlier days together we used to celebrate with a cheap bottle of champagne and 2 tiny bottles of Southern Comfort. What did we celebrate? Usually our love. Here come the tears again.

I am so very thankful for these boards and for all the support I've received here. I'll be back again soon, I'm sure.

Please tell OW's H right away. The OW in our case was also someone we have close contact with...our next door neighbor and friend. On dday the first thing I did besides get in my car to try and find her (my H called to warn her so she hid from me until I calmed down) was to call her H. He met me at his house and we talked and then called both OW and my H and told them to drop all kids at my house (with our teenage daughters) and to come to their house so the 4 of us could talk...well I mostly cried.

We teamed up together to ensure NC. It was a good thing we did this because even though they both agreed to NC...she broke it about 5 days after dday...I found out (he knew I was checking email and cell phone so he used Onstar to call her but I was checking credit card bills and saw he charged minutes)...I then went immediately to her H and her again and we made it clear to both of them if contact continued both marriages were going to be over!!!

It worked this time...they never broke contact again. I also exposed A to immediate family...OW H exposed to their immediate families.

All this broke them out of fantasy land really fast. My H wasn't happy about any of this at first..he and OW were still in fog and thought they could end A and we could all still be friends (ha, ha)...but he understood that I needed to do this and he couldn't stop me or really blame me.

Later he told me that once he saw how hard I was fighting for him that he started admiring me again and realizing that he had never really stopped loving me...that he has just gotten lost and made the worst mistake of his life.

As for the images of the two of them..they last for awhile but I made it through them by always telling H about them and asking him what really happened..alot of times my imagination was worse then what really happened.

He would also hold me and reassure me whenever I had trigger/visions..eventually they lessen. Mine were really bad for about 3 mths then they started to lessen.

As for eating...I didn't eat very well for months. When I did I would throw up most of time or it'd come out the other end (sorry know that's gross). Sleeping was also tough...but IT DOES GET BETTER!

You two need to both be reading everything on this site, should read Surviving an Affair, Not Just Friends, Torn Asunder, etc. I would also suggest counseling with the Harley's and getting into IC.

Something (probably multiple things) lead to this A, it's important to focus on processing the why's and putting a recovery plan in place...it also serves another purpose...it gives you something constructive to do.

Hang in there and keep posting to us.

Hi all,

I can't stop thinking about this, and my husband had a brief EA with a woman who works two cubicle aisles away from me. He also works in the same company. Meanwhile, he has moved out and is still having infrequent (he says) phone conversations with her. We are in counseling, but I too am the one trying to apologize for everything that I did or didn't do, and he is not terribly interested in falling back in love, sort of ambivalent about it I think. He has tried to end things w/ her twice, but last week announced in therapy that he saw no reason to not have some phone calls with her. I am trying to ignore it for the time being and focus on our relationship, which is hard to do since I only see him when he comes over to see our child (who has Autism)or at counseling. Like the other poster said, I thought I always felt our love for each other, even if it was under the surface of incredible stress of dealing with a child with a disability. I understand now that I was not meeting his emotional needs. I also think that he is a particularly needy person who doesn't have much of a support system for himself. Tonight I am feeling so depressed. It's hard to give to someone who is defensive and who has hurt me. Any advice? I know that he should stop all contact with her, but he doesn't seem to be capable of doing that right now. How can I help him to get out of the fog?

Hey confused, How are you doing today? I was just thinking about you and wondering how many days of work you've done by this time (11:00).

Have you made plans to contact OW's H yet? You really need to take care of that so that you have additional assurance of NC.

I hope you are doing okay.

Take care. Check in with us.

sss

Thanks to all of you who have contacted me yesterday/today. Your support is so very appreciated.

So yesterday was a very very hard day for me. The visions wouldn't go away and then while doing something for my son on the commputer a pop-up hotmail ad came up. In the id space was a user id so you know I had to try to get in. My husband wasn't very believing that I wasn't snooping around saying that a pop up ad wouldn't do that. All I can say is that it did. I don't know how but surely it was a sign for me. Of course a few password tries got me into yet another email account of my husbands. It was an old account so the emails were not new and were actually older than the emails I read on d-day. The part that disturbed me about them was that they showed that the A was actually started before December. My husband stands firm with the December start date but I'd say discussing having SF with another woman is an EA even if there was nothing physical but just talk (and based on the emails I am just not sure that 'nothing happened'). Irrevalent now, I suppose.

Okay, so now I'm feeling like I'm back to square one...d-day all over again. This A (EA, at least) started before we moved and as the moving truck was packing and unpacking us he was planning a trip for SF with another woman.

So, as I mentioned yesterday, my husband got a bottle of champagne for us. He walks in the door and just the sight of him sets me off. I burst into screams and accusations....not really following the MB plan, I know. It was not my intent but I had no control over the anger I was feeling.

Needless to say, his response was not positive. Why should it be, I suppose. We do a little talking, spend some time with the kids, and then some time together.

We filled out our EN questionnaires. It left me a little confused and I'm still trying to figure out more ways to fill his LB. He didn't really have a lot that he said he needed which I know can't be true since he's the one who had the A. He did agree that communication is his issue.

Then he read my EN questionaire. Throughout it he kept saying, "Hmm." When he got to the end he said, "Hmm. You should have been the one having the affair. I guess I have a lot to work on."

We took a break from talking and watched a funny movie together. It was good to laugh and, at least momentairly, put all this pain aside.

I went to bed feeling horrible. Horrible about having discovered more emails, horrible about what they said (these were less about their physical contacts/fantasies together and more about their dissatisfaction with their spouses), and horrible that I blew up. I didn't sleep much and even had to wake my husband up for some reassurance in the middle of the night.

Today didn't start out very well. Still feeling bad about what I had read in the emails and called my husband at work a few times for clarification and updated feelings. I know this makes him mad but I really need to know what he was thinking/feeling at the time and I really need to know what happened. I don't want to be anywhere down the road of recovery and find out something that will set us back. I want it all out in the open so I can deal with it and hopefully get over it. He'd rather just put it behind us all together (although I must say he does answer more questions than I thought he would).

Three positive things have happened today though. First, my husband said these magical words to me after I had questioned about several 'fantasies' (not perverted fantasies but more along the line of dreams/hopes/and I guess some SF) he had written to her..."I want those things with you but she was there when I didn't think you were." I had to sit down because if I could even express the sincerety in his voice...I don't think he even realized how I've been waiting to hear those words until I cut him off mid sentence truly believing the fog is lifting.

Second, reading these earlier emails really made an impact. Yes, they hurt me, but they also confirmed for me that he was thriving on the attention she gave him. I won't lie that some of the words will still eat away at me for a while but having read from the beginning I can see more clearly that this was truly a 'fog' for both of them.

Third, I read a post from trueheart (can't find it again but it's entitled Good morning all...if someone needs some hopeful reading). It was a note from a WS to a WS giving hope and support. It validated my feelings as well as opening my eyes a little more to the feelings of a WS.

Today is a better day. I am more hopeful about our future (still can't eat, sleep, or stop shaking but I'll deal with that if it gives me nothing less than a better day than yesterday).

Forever Together and SSS, I am thinking about your advice to contact the OW H. I picked up the phone today but had to put it back down. I just not there yet. If I knew I could just call, say 'your W had an A with my H', provide enough info for him to confront her, and be done with it I probably would. I just don't think I'm strong enough yet to answer questions I'm sure he'll have or to relive it all over again with him. I guess I'm living in the 'fog' that we're actually at the NC phase. Dumb, I know. Please keep giving me support with this.

So my husband say that one of my 'flaws', if you will, is that it takes me forever to get to the point. I guess he's right <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . Thank you for taking the time with me.

...and sss, not too much work today...some more laundry, dishes, windows, and a little dusting <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

This makes me feel so so much better. I hope that by responding you will feel better too. I found out on 12-16 my H didn't love me anymore and hadn't for 10 years. Then on 12-24 (yeah nice time to find out isn't it) he was having an A. I was devastated, I found out that same week I had cancer. My life has been in a state of turmoil ever since. But I feel exactly how you feel. I don't think for me it's so much imagining the sex between them (he says it was only 1 time as of now, but I have a hard time believing that), but the love between them (he still says he loves her). I just can't imagine ever loving someone else, in a way that I would want to hurt him or our children. I have felt so guilty and have spent so much time trying to analyze every thing I have done for 15 years that could have made him ever think I didn't love him and that he couldn't come to me when he first started having feelings for her. I have beat myself up and down... and I feel so guilty. My family and friends have also said "dump him" and then I feel guilty when I want to continue to stick by him. My H still hasn't stopped talking to his OW, they talk on email and the phone he says. He says he's only seen her twice since he moved out 3 weeks ago. It's still so early for us... but I feel exactly how you feel. I hear a song he sang when I had just found out and I imagine him singing that about here (that here without you baby) GOD I hate that damn song. Whenever we are together and he plays it, I cringe.... I told him I hated that song and not to play it... but he just says figures it's my favorite song. I'll be riding in the car and think, Did she sit in this seat next to him, holding his hand like I am. Those images pop into my head over and over. It's hard to let go, then I try not to become overly needy, because I have the desire to have sex with him to show how much better it is with us and stuff. It's strange.... I have lost 32 pounds since dec., I can't eat I don't sleep for more than an hour at a time, before those images pop into my head and wake me up. I know exactly how you feel... sometimes, I have this urge just to tell complete strangers at checkouts about it so I don't feel guilty. I want someone to say, you know you didn't have an A, you didn't fall in love with someone else, you didn't move out. It's hard still because I guess it's so early. I feel anxious about the whole deal. But you should know that someone else feels exactly like you do... and if you ever want to talk feel free to email me at heavenlee30@yahoo.com.

heavenlee30 - thank you for reading and responding to my post. If nothing else, this site/board has convinced me that I am not alone (nor are you). Is this good or bad? I don't know. I feel such an immense pain and it hurts even more to know that so many people feel as I do. Life should not be like this.

So, of course, I've already irritated my husband by calling him to talk about one of his old emails to the OW. I'm trying to remain focused on the 'fog' he was in at the time but how do I really know it was a 'fog'? Of course, he told her that she was the best lover he ever had (in all ways, positions, acts). In a good moment I could laugh at that but those moments are few and far between so I'm not laughing now. It seems like the 'going rate' on getting these constant thoughts out of your head is somewhere around 3 months. My god! I've just barely made it through the last 9 days (and have already lost 6 lbs). How will I survive 80+ more days? My husband is already beyond aggrevated with me. I know he says that he wants to be with me, that he wants things with me (and always had) but shared them with her because I 'wasn't available to him', etc but he doesn't realize that I need to hear that (and see that) over and over and over before my defenses are going to come down and I'm going to hear and believe him.

I don't truly believe my husband's love ever completely died for me. Like I said yesterday, reading his earlier words to her made me realize that she just validated the negative feelings he was having at home and encouraged them to continue by feeding him with all her 'woes' at home. They clung to each other because they both believed their spouses had failed them and they fed on that until they convinced each other that they were no longer in love with their spouses. This should make me happy, I know. In truth, it makes me feel like a failure.

Off on a tangent (which makes my husband think I talk 'nonsense')..the OW has been my H's boss for many many years and she's always complained to him about her marriage. Her mother, who she was very close with and shared everything with, passed away and it was at that time that I started having 'concerns' about her. She immediately clung to my husband and he became her confidant about everything in her life. I reminded him that he was my H not hers and he should put up some boundries but I guess it probably made him feel good that someone needed him as badly as she did. Look where their 'friendship' has led us. Men and women just can NOT be friends. It goes against human nature. He still disagrees about that.

Today I thank LaurieC (and sss because, despite your own pain, your words have given me such hope, insight, and the courage to keep going). LaurieC wrote a post about her recovery (I'm leaving the link but don't know if it will go through)

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=006735;p=1#000008

Her words after 4 years: I know how painful it was, but I can no longer conjure up or recall that pain. I can't even remember the last time I cried about it. It's now just something that happened in my life, in my marriage. One piece of a very large picture. One part of 20 years of my life.

At 5 years of marriage my husband and I met a huge obsticle in our marriage (nothing like this but, at the time, a devestating and extrememly painful experience). I didn't believe I'd ever get over it, ever forget the pain, or ever 'laugh about it someday'. Today I truly look at that experience as something that made us stronger. Something that showed us that we can survive ANYTHING as long as we do it together. I remember how I felt but I no longer feel pain or any other emotion about it. It is just something that happened in my life.

About a year ago I sent my husband an email which included the words of our vows to each other as well as the lyrics to some songs that reminded me of him and our love. I also included a paragraph telling him how in love with him I was. Unfortunately a lot of what I wrote is no longer true (ie a feeling of security in his unconditional love for me, etc) but the last three sentences are still in my heart...

"As our journey continues hold my hand, close your eyes and know that together we will conquer the world. No obsticle is too big for us to overcome and no joy is undeserved. Our love gives us the power to have it all."

LaurieC has given me hope in my future, in my husband's future, and in our future together. My husband is the person who made me believe in true love and in the idea of marriage. Life prior to him did not allow for them to be part of my life. scarlet pumpernickle commented to her post saying that he has lost faith in the institution of marriage. I feel that now also and it saddens me because the greatest gift my husband has ever given me was that faith. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Today, my committment to you (who have been so kind to continue to read through all my blabber), to myself, to my husband, and to my family is to keep the words of LaurieC close. To try not to dwell on the past but to move forward. To accept the love my husband is trying to give me and to return it to him full force.

I appreciate all of your support and I hope that someday I am healed enough to give back.