I had an especially bad day at work today. Long story made short, my busy time of year has just become busy beyond belief and I may be looking at traveling before long (the part of my job I hate because it takes me away from my family) because I have to vacant accounting positions to staff.

I must have had a stricken look on my face in our lunch room because a couple coworkers asked what was up and somehow along with sharing the work issues, the part about my personal issues with H and OW came up. They had no idea--guess I cover well. We talked, one said she'd keep me in her prayers, and they left.

However...on the other side of the divider wall was the assistant to the president of our company. I didn't know she was there, but she heard my conversation. She came around and (relatively small office--maybe 60 people--but I don't work with her so don't know her very well) put her arm around me and you could see she'd been crying.

She proceeds to tell me she wasn't trying to listen but heard everything. She says, "Don't file on him. Hang in there." Then she tells me how her H found a much younger woman several years ago. She, like me, is a Christian and believes strongly in marrige and didn't want to lose her husband. She hasn't been involved with the MB concepts. Her H ended up filing on her, but she stalled and delayed and the courts ended up tossing out the first divorce filing because it had gone on so long. So he filed again, and she drug it out some more. It did finally go through, about THREE years after his A started.

The day it went through, he and OW broke up. OW knew he'd never marry her and he was done. He and his wife got back together, they remarried, and they're happier than ever now.

So I'm trying to tell myself...and anyone else who reads this--NEVER lose hope.

That is a heartwarming story. But, I have to wonder if I can wait three years. My WW left with a certainty and conviction that is scary. If she had gone to live with a relative for a few months to sort things out that would be one story. But she took off with a firm conviction, signed a long term lease, and left NOTHING personal behind. Scary.

Was he an insane drunk, too?

ML,

In answer to your question, no I doubt he was.

Don't take this as a stab. Just understand that I am an honest person and do often share opinions freely, whether they were solicited or not.

I feel sometimes that because my husband is an alcoholic, you see me as somehow different than everyone else on this board who are dealing with infidelity but who can continue to have hope, and that because of his alcoholism, I should just dump him and move on. Yes, he is addicted, but isn't an affair an addiction, too? So we just have a little more against us because we're fighting two addictions instead of one.

Though I admit I'm guilty of not going to another Al-Anon meeting yet, what I got out of the one I went to was not that we should walk away from our loved one (whether spouse, parent, child, or whoever) because of their alcoholism and whatever problems it may have caused, but that Al-Anon was a way to learn to cope with life and to cope with the alcoholic while still loving them for who they are.

My H is an alcoholic. And he will actually admit to anyone that he knows he drinks too much. He will also follow that with a statement that he loves to drink because it numbs pain and makes life bearable. I'd say that's a true statement for most alcoholics. The ones who recover just realize they can't continue to do it. He has been in that position several times. No, he's not now, and yes he's drinking a lot. I still don't feel that I should give up on him because of it. He has had sober periods before.

Like I said, we had two pretty darned good sober years right before this--his longest period ever. The drinking started AFTER the affair started, and I truly believe a lot of it has to do with his guilty feeling and his inability to deal with where he's put himself.

I also believe God can work miracles. I can personally attest to it. My H should not be alive today. He was in what could have been a fatal motorcycle crash two years ago (someone turned in front of him on a country highway and he swerved to miss and hit the back of her car at about 45mph.) No one denies that it was miracle that he wasn't thrown off or his bike didn't go down. He has no memory of the few seconds right after it happened, but the bike remained upright and he remained on it. $4000 damage was done to the car where he hit it, he spent a week in the hospital recovering and getting a skin graft to his calf, but he is alive and other than an ugly scar, totally functional. I believe God kept him safe that night. I had been praying for something to change his heart because he was drinking heavily at that point. The accident, while unpleasant, brought him to sobriety, brought me closer to God, and because it was the other person's fault, her insurance paid his medical bills and then some, and we got out of some debts that I thought we'd never be free of.
Oh, and I'd been having a major anxiety attack since 9/11 (the accident happened 10/1/01) and had been pretty much unable to eat or function well. It also gave me a new focus and I pulled out of my depression and anxiety.

Miracles do happen. Maybe this time they won't for us, but I'm not ready to give up that hope yet.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong>

I feel sometimes that because my husband is an alcoholic, you see me as somehow different than everyone else on this board who are dealing with infidelity but who can continue to have hope, and that because of his alcoholism, I should just dump him and move on. Yes, he is addicted, but isn't an affair an addiction, too? So we just have a little more against us because we're fighting two addictions instead of one. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LL, I think you have misunderstood my posts entirely. I have never said you should "dump him" and move on. I have stated, over and over again, that you need to stop enabling him, move to Plan B IMMEDIATELY and go to Alanon. That is not "dumping him." The purpose of the Alanon advice is to facilitate his descent to the bottom, not to DUMP HIM. I have pointed this out to you because it is silly to believe that Plan A will ever work with an alcoholic. It won't work.

Now, you can delude yourself into thinking that God will wave a magic wand and sober up your H and make him dump his latest honey against his will, but let me assure you that will never happen. God does not work that way. He helps those who want help, not people who DON'T WANT HELP. God believes in FREE WILL. Your H does not want help and he will not want it until he hits bottom. He wants to be drunk.

However, I am not going to waste my time repeating myself again and again. I am an alcoholic [18 years sober] and I know a co-dependant mentality when I see it. I can also recognize someone who likes being a victim and does not WANT to change the situation.

<small>[ February 14, 2004, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong> I'd say that's a true statement for most alcoholics. The ones who recover just realize they can't continue to do it. He has been in that position several times. No, he's not now, and yes he's drinking a lot. I still don't feel that I should give up on him because of it. He has had sober periods before.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have already given up on him. You are helping him stay drunk by enabling his suicidal behavior.

But I suspect that is the point, isn't it?

You are handing a gun to a suicidal person every day and then crying "victim." You are part of the problem, LL. This is why I keep suggesting that you go to Alanon.


You wouldn't believe how many spouses actually LEAVE the alcoholic once they sober up because they are no longer in control and because they are so addicted to being a "victim." They like the chaos and power they feel living with an insane person. When the alcoholic sobers up, it is like a new grown up moved in the house and many spouses, after years of living in dysfunction, resent it.

Just understand that I am an honest person and do often share opinions freely, whether they were solicited or not.

well...see there is this slight glitch in that statement....
your ability to be an honest person stops right where you need to be honest the most...where it actually has the greatest effect on you and your life and your childrens...and your husbands...
where the rubber meets the road so to speak...

your honesty stops way short in acknowledging the lack of power and control you have over the actions of your husband's...
or anyone elses on this planet...

You don't dump an acoholic...you dump your own partipation in aiding and enabling...

And he will actually admit to anyone that he knows he drinks too much. He will also follow that with a statement that he loves to drink because it numbs pain and makes life bearable.
what does that mean?...
what does he have to lose?...
to that statement friends and family just hand him another beer...

We are not your enemy lordslady..
the behaviors and actions are clear as day to those not living it..
I realize you can't see that...
you yourself would never suggest to your own son or daughter to engage in the behaviors and activities that you do....

there is barely a family on this planet in which chemical or alcohol dependancey has not touched...
blessed are those who have escaped the nightmare..

There is much hope...but a lot of hope lies in you seeing the light of removing yourself from the destructive behavior and becoming constructive...

it's hard
it's scary...
and people here know and get that..
but we would be doing YOU no service in pretending that his drinking does not play majorly into the big picture of true reconcilliation in an affair...

we don't want false recovery for you
we don't want you to believe that you caused this or that...

but untill you get honest with yourself..
you will continue to spin your wheels and feel like a tossed wave...

ark
who believe in the water dripping on a stone theory...eventually it makes an impact....

lordslady -

I don't think that you are different because your H drinks. I just want you to get onboard the MB plan.

I was just like you. It took me awile to figure out what to do. But you will make progress by staying here and posting. It is not easy to figure out what to do, when so many problems need addressing.

I kept believing my WH over and over. Everyone here told me to go to Plan B, but I had a hard time doing it. Now things are much better.

So hang in here and keep reading and posting. Trust that things will get better.

I can also recognize someone who likes being a victim and does not WANT to change the situation.

You wouldn't believe how many spouses actually LEAVE the alcoholic once they sober up because they are no longer in control and because they are so addicted to being a "victim." They like the chaos and power they feel living with an insane person. When the alcoholic sobers up, it is like a new grown up moved in the house and many spouses, after years of living in dysfunction, resent it.

Just want to be clear on these two statements. I do NOT like being the victim, to him or to anyone else. Not with alcohol, not with anything. True, I am one who is used to being in control, but it has nothing to do with alcohol. It has to do with running the business dealings in our family.

Second, I'll guarantee I wouldn't leave him if he sobered up. I have prayed more prayers of thanks than you can ever imagine during his sober periods. I love him enough to stay with him drinking or sober, but I would MUCH prefer it to be sober. Lot less worries of crashing family finances, or crashing a car, etc.

As I said before, it's not that I don't hear you. Maybe I'm not nearly as strong as you, or as comfortable and confident with myself.

I am still in what I would consider Plan A at this point (though instead of it being a chasing him Plan A, I've backed way off and am letting him initiate ALL phone calls and ALL contact. I am only returning calls.) I don't know if I'll see him today. He will have to decide that. I again am not chasing him down. He left a message this morning on my cell (I'd turned it off) saying he was taxiing OW's basketball girls and babysitting her daughter at the same time, that he loved me, that he was wishing me a happy V-day and would call me later. I didn't call him back.

I know, it's not complete darkness. But I did force him to get his apartment. He didn't want to. I've only visited it once, other than to drop off some stuff initially, and it was at his invitation--and nothing happened other than him making me a ham sandwich.

So I didn't mean to offend anyone, but it's just my interpretation of the tone of some posts. I get the feeling that no one thinks there's hope for restoring my marriage, and I'm not ready to accept that.

LL, there is no hope of restoring your marriage if you are not honest about the impact of your H's alcoholism and REFUSE to do anything to help him. There is hope if you help him get SOBER instead of what you are doing, which is helping him STAY DRUNK.

And I don't believe for a minute that you don't enjoy the martyr act. Your complete lack of willingness to solve your situation tells me that. I have seen it time and time again over the years. Instead, you waste your time helping him destroy himself and doing a Plan A that is of ZERO worth to a practicing alcoholic. You cannot claim you are doing Plan A for him, LL. You are doing it FOR YOU. At his expense. At your kid's expense. So, no, your actions don't match your words.

True love is when you sincerely care about the well being the person. But what you are doing isn't about him. You are doing nothing to help him, but rather everything to help him stay sick. That is not love, LL.

You care more about ingratiating yourself to him instead of helping him. You seek his approval at his and your children's expense.

What you are doing is tantamount to handing a suicidal person a gun to make them happy in the moment to ensure they like you. You don't give a damn if the gun is actually good or bad for that person, you just care about being "liked."

I feel the most sorry for your kids. They don't have the power to take action in this situation, you don't have the willingness and your drunk H doesn't have the ability.

I realize its very enjoyable to play martyr sometimes, but it becomes very sick and very dangerous when it is done at the expense of your family. Your kids and your H need you right now and you refuse to take action because you are too busy reveling in your role as martyr in a role that you WILLINGLY CHOSE. How very angry and frustrated your poor kids must be.