Okay, WH "officially" got possession of his apartment on Monday, but since the power steering was out of his truck (his doings...he got stuck in snow in a median w/OW on Sunday and in trying to get out, trashed the pump), I was being kind (stupid?) and hauling him around. I offered. So he really didn't move in until Tuesday.

Since then, I know OW has spent several days at his place, but at least at one point (noon yesterday) he'd had enough and told her it was time to go home, and he took her back to the friends' she's living with.

Since I've backed off on my calls and let him basically initiate all calls since Monday (though if he calls and leaves me a message, I do return the call), he's called several times during each day. I get the feeling she's smothering him. He's commented that she's occupying every moment of his time, he's grumbling about how he's expected to be her taxi all the time, and he says he's caught in a web he doesn't know how to get out of.

Okay, I came close to LB-ing today when I said, "How about the words "NO" and "Goodbye"?"
He said he's not good at that. I told him he needed to get strong, and that I was getting stronger. Reminded him that if he doesn't eventually let go of the east-side person, he's going to lose the west-side person and his kids.
Said it nicely...just want him to think.

Story gets better though. This morning, I found out that I've lost another accounting director at one of the retirement communities my company manages. This one is in Juno Beach, FL. This usually means that I have to get on the ball and hire and train someone. But I think I'm losing my mind.

I have entertained the thought of applying for the job myself. I mean, heck, I train these poeple...I should be able to do the job. It would mean leaving the company I've worked with for 17 years and asking permission to be hired by the company who contracts with us for management. I'm not sure anyone would go for it. It'd be a long shot, but here's the deal:

I live in Iowa. Granted there is no better place to live and raise a family than the midwest in my opinion. It's relatively safe, it's decent, my family is here, etc. I have never been a big fan of Florida (sorry all south-Floridians), mainly because of the crime issues and the darned humidity.

But was thinking about this today and H called and (sounded like he was in one of his panic moods) said, "Have you ever just thought of moving out of state?"

I replied...coincidentally, I have, and there is an opening in Juno Beach. His sister lives in Jupiter, so we'd only be like 5 miles away from her. And we'd be 1600 miles from the OW.

The down side: We've both been with our employers for nearly 20 years. We've always lived in Iowa, our families are here, and we've never moved over 100 miles from our original home in our life. I'm terrified to start a new job. He wouldn't have work right away, and he's an auto tech, so who knows what he might or might not be able to find. We'd have to pull my daughter back out of the alternative school we just got her enrolled in, and deal with the Florida schools (I have't heard good things from my SIL). My son graduates this May, and is planning on going to University of Iowa (no idea how we're funding in our current situation), so he'd be stuck up here all by himself.

It's really scary. I doubt there's any way it would happen. I don't know if I could handle Florida. We'd have to sell our house up here and it's not really in the shape to be selling. And I'm not sure it would even work--who knows if H would just get down there and get involved in drinking and in another A?

I know he's tossing the thought around in his head, but it's VERY hard for him to make decisions or take risks like this, so I doubt he'll go for it.

But if on the offhand chance he would....is this really a stupid thought? Am I just losing my mind? Should I just settle down and ride everything out here?

BTW: The owners of this community are building a very upscale retirement community in our city. It's been in the planning stages since 1999, and since the day I found out, I said "I want to be the accountant there". It's scheduled to open in about a year, and I'd be giving up something I've wanted for 5 years if I moved to Florida.

But Dr. Harley says in his SAA book that he will go so far as to recommend that people move out of state to get away from the OP. Problem is, my H hasn't ended the A yet. I think he's afraid to, and so he's entertaining the thought as a way to get out of it.

I'm SOOO confused.

If he is afraid to end the A, why should you move to Florida. Modern telecommunications and cheap airfares make long distance affairs easy. I know as this is how my wife kept her affair going for years.

Okay, I agree with the modern communication idea. His cell has gotten him into trouble. (See, I need poeple who are thinking straight right now to help me figure this out.)

However, the cheap airfare deal I wouldn't worry about. He hates to fly. He's only flown twice in his life, and I made the reservations for us. He is afraid to navigate an airport by himself. He also, as an auto tech, doesn't make the money necessary to fly her down (and where would he put her?) And also, as an auto tech, there really isn't much reason to need to fly anywhere either. All of our vacations but two have been by car.

(On a side note: I hate flying also, but have had to do it for work, and to my surprise have survived over 100 flights now without dying in the crash I fear so much. If I took the FL job, there would be no travel required, where my current position can require up to 25% travel. I believe the being gone and then working late hours was a part of what weakened our marriage.)

Dear LL, it sounds like trying to run away to me!

And the problem, is our minds go everywhere with us.
It won't make you stop thinking of the affair or your husband stop thinking of the OW.

I believe it would be better for you to stay where you are, if your reason for leaving is to get away from the OW.
Maybe that is just a little too 'selfish' and unrealistic. Your husband might even stay here and you would be stuck in S. Florida.
What do you think?

One thing for sure, give it LOTS of thought before making that decision.

Have you ever tried Plan B?
It almost appears like it wouldn't take long and he would be coming back to you.

As it is now he has you and her so he doesn't have to choose. He is walking all over your tender emotions. He seems to depend on you, what if he was given the 'no communication ultimatum' until he was ready to commit to you only?
Love, Julie

Lets talk about boundaries...

do you believe in them...
do you have any...
are you afraid that boundaries will be seen as lovebusters by WS and therefor are afraid to have any...

Okay, I came close to LB-ing today when I said, "How about the words "NO" and "Goodbye"?"

why would you give this advice...and not take this advice...
not the goodbye part...but definitely the NO part...

I offered. So he really didn't move in until Tuesday.

that is insane helping him abandon you and his children at the extreme extent..

The point of not engaging in love busting and disrepectful behavior...and meeting needs is not catering and condoneing to the insane antics of the WS....
It is setting limits without the powerstruggling and name calling...

Ws asks....Can you drive me here or there?

BS answers...ugghh...I wish I could but I really can't....already made plans...and have an appoitment with my numerorolgist...who is tracking the age of aquarius via my hormonal shift cycles of the moon....also considering taking up primordial scream therapy....so I'm a little busy then..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (SEE...BS are entitled to fog talk as well)....

NO love busting...just the WS FACEING some REALITY of their choices....

lordslady..over and over and over again you have the opportunity to pick boundaries...and you gloss over them....
and continue to be a major assett to the continuation of their affair...which is exactly what PLAN A is not...

and he says he's caught in a web he doesn't know how to get out of.
and you buy his self imposed victim status over and over again....

people love to take brownie points for not LBing...and yet skip the other aspects of it...
(plan a)

did you take him to the store so he could buy alchohol...
I pray for your sake the answer is no..
and you don't have to answer that if you don't want to...
AND I am asking not to jab at you...or pick on you...but to wake you up from some of this...

AND if you did..think about what that says to him about his behaviors...

and think about what it says about how emeshed you are in the chaos...

AND the whole Florida thing...
bad idea...
first of riduculous to even consider moving anywhere with him...he's not even worthy right now to move back at home with you...and taking him back in now...huge huge mistake...

but you and your children need the support of your family now more than ever...


you are in my prayers and thoughts.....
ARK

Lordslady -

Florida is a bad idea. You have too much stress and change going on right now.

So we need to get you back on track. We need you to start taking care of yourself and children, and not worrying so much about H.

Of course, if you moved to Florida, you wouldn't have to clean the house, just pack it all up and go. Hehe.

Ark,

did you take him to the store so he could buy alchohol...

I can honestly answer that to the best of my memories, in all our years of marriage, I have never purchased alcohol for him, and I have never taken him to a store with the intent of buying alcohol. I have stopped at convenience stores to buy gas with him with me, and he's come out with a beer, but it wasn't my intent. I have not forbid him to drink at our house, but neither have I participated in making it easy for him to do it. He knows I don't like it, and that's why I think he tended to stay away during all his drinking periods and drink with coworkers instead of coming home immediately after work, and doing it at home.

Believer,

But it sure sounds tempting when my accountant in Delray Beach gives me his daily weather during the winter and it's always "Oh, it's about 75 degrees down here...I'm playing golf on Sunday." And my response is, "Well, it's 1 degree here, and there's a foot of snow on the ground."

I was just thinking that because H's sister lives within 5 miles of the job I'm looking at, it would put him down with part of his family he used to be very close with. Just thinking of it as a new start. (Granted, a scary new start though.)

lordslady -

Don't worry about all of the negative talk on your postings. You will get there. It is very hard at first.

Sometimes with new posters, I just want to scream at them. But I remember when I was in that position. It takes time. I would like everyone to know what I know now. But most folks have to go through the process.

So hang in there. Things will get better. It is not pleasant, but you will sort this out.

By the way - are you still keeping up with flylady.com? It has really helped me.

No, I don't rush into anything, even things that maybe I should (Plan B?)

As for flylady, I've been fairly busy at work this week working later hours, so haven't done much with the house, but today I did do ALL my dishes and then shined my sink (well, shined a worn-out, cheap-quality, 5-yr-old sink as well as it could be shined...I think Flylady would be proud.)

More fogspeak for anyone gutsy enough to try and interpret came this afternoon: He's called three times today. (Again, I am not calling him, and did let the first message roll to voicemail).

The jist of the message: He's heard nothing but "swim, swim" all day from OW and her 8-yr-old so they were at the indoor pool at apt when he called. Not only her, but she also took it upon herself to invite some friends without his knowledge (which violates his lease because he's only supposed to have 2 people besides himself at the pool.) He was not happy about that, not happy about taxiing, not happy about much of anything. He said he misses me...misses the kids. Said he has to get away from this.

Again, I told him I can't make his decisions for him, that he's the one who has to do it. He told me he was finding out he wasn't as strong as he thought he was. I responded by telling him I'm finding out I'm stronger than I thought I was.

He started crying (he must have been in the clubhouse bathroom or somewhere away from everyone, and said "Do you know what I wanted to do with you tomorrow? I wanted to go to church..."

I really didn't know how to respond, so I just said I'm praying for him. He said he hopes a lot of people are, because he needs them.

I'm not saying he's the innocent victim. He got himself into this. I'm just asking if this is a sign that there might be hope on the horizon (however distant), or if it's complete fogspeak.

LL

Lords Lady,

I don't know your entire history, have seen a bit, but just reading your ideas to go to Florida sounds wild and crazy to me. That's a good quality that you're capable of spontaneous behavior, but don't cause yourself more tension than you already have. It seems in some of your other posts that you're making progress -

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am still surviving several months later, and I'm actually getting a little stronger.

I still drive myself crazy sometimes trying to figure out what he sees in OW, or why he's doing it, but I'm doing it less and less. I will admit I haven't gotten to the point where I can possibly imagine life without him. I still live daily with the hope and prayers that we weather this in the end.

In the mean time, I pray that God will work in his heart, that God will keep me strong </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Bravo! This indicates to me that you are progressing, and you're in Iowa! (where your kids are no doubt more comfortable) Sure, one step up, two steps back, etc....don't beat yourself up. It sounds like WH is already all too aware of the negative side affects of his behavior. Hang in there - God will hear you.

Hey! Hang in there! I've kept up reading your threads, but haven't had time to reply with any kind of sense! LOL!!

I've had an insane week....some good, some not so good....still sorting it all out...ugh!

Wishing that I had two brain cells to rub together, rather than nickels!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Although come to think of it...nickels would be ok, too!

You say that you're in Iowa? I'm pretty much just across the river from Davenport... on the Hell-i-nois side...

Besides hubby (I don't mean that in any kind of a bad sense! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) ...what hobbies do you have? What do you like to do on days off?

I'm a part-time (again....long story....) ebay seller, flea market vendor, junque-a-holic, antique and collectibles-hound...I'm always looking for fellow packrats and junking expedition companions.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I like and do lots of craft type stuff too....except lately-- the extent of my doing has been to buy the stuff and put in closet.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ February 14, 2004, 11:28 PM: Message edited by: HelenWheels ]</small>

Yes LL, there is hope. Faith, hope and love. The greatest is love but in his case there is also hope.

He wants to go to church? For what? He knows. Don't speak for him. Let him tell you why.

Learn to ask questions and NOT let him know you are jumping to all sorts of conclusions. Very hard for most BS but the less they know about your thoughts at this stage the better. He needs to miss you. He needs to know that he needs you. That is showing. Whether it will stick or fade away again, only time will tell.

In the interim, pray for that clear mind and calm heart. You are going to need this more now. See this is why it is important that you have strengthened yourself. All WS falter. Just a matter of when. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hugz,
L.

Orchid,

I am starting to realize how important it is for me to have a clear mind, and to think HARD before I say something to him. He's left one message on my cell while I was at church. It just said "Ask D when she'd like to come swimming at the pool here."

I didn't know how to respond, as right now neither of my teens has even seen him for nearly 2 weeks. She's pretty angry with him. So I just left a message back that said I think he needs to spend a little time with her trying to warm back up first.

He told me in yesterday's conversation that he'd call me again last night. No call. Still hurts, but I'm not nearly as upset (lowered expectations) as I used to be. And honestly, I was almost relieved I go his voice mail today instead of him personally when I returned his call. I love him dearly. I want him back SO bad. But sometimes it's easier to leave voice messages than to speak in person right now.

HW,

Sorry I never got you emailed. I still have the address somewhere. I'm actually in Des Moines. One of the retirement communities I work with is in Chicago, so I've driven though the quad cities MANY times over the years. I don't like to fly, so only fly out there during winter months. Otherwise, I drive.

I'm not sure what my hobbies are. I do have a lot of half-finished crafts stuck in various closets! I don't know much about antiques, but have a few in my collection (belonged to my grandmothers) and am looking for a couple things.

For the last two years I've gone to the craft festival/flea market in September in Bentonsport, IA (during H's family reunion) and I really enjoy it.

I'm an e-bay buyer; not gutsy enough to be a seller.

-----

Well, while I was typing this, he called. He's on his way to my house...is almost here. What do I do? What do I say? I'm not sure I want him here right now. He just disbursed the OW and her clan a little while ago?

(I know, I won't have answers until AFTER he gets here from you guys). Pray and keep your fingers crossed that I do the right thing and not the wron thing.

LL

H is here, napping as I write this. I think he came because he misses his kids, but neither has said scarcely a word to him. D is watching TV downstairs with her boyfriend. S is in his room playing videogames.

Fog has crept back a bit, I believe. H told me OW moved all her personal items out of his apt this afternoon when he took her home because she was tired of having to hide everything if D or I come over. When he dropped her off, said she was cursing and slamming doors.

However...here's the fog. Said to me "If she stays with me, we'd have to have a bigger apartment, and I can't afford it."

I replied, "She'd have to help pay."

He says, "I can't stand her kids."

Me: "What about her?"

Him: "She's the one pushing to move in."

Me: "Are you happy with her?"

Him: "We get along great....when I'm drunk. Today I've only had 1/2 quart of beer, and she was a *itch."

He's still saying it's going to end one way or another, sooner or later. I told him that finances weren't a good enough reason for me to believe it will end, because if we get back together and finances are better, he'll run right back as soon as things get bad.

We haven't fought or argued. I'm just staying clear. He is sleeping in our bed right now. He's asked me a couple times to cover up and nap beside him. I told him I have to finish S's FAFSA and get his college stuff going.

I can't just say, "Get out!". That's a major LB. I know, I know....Plan B. I did tell him today that if he doesn't choose before long, I will stop contact with him (sort of a hint of Plan B but without the guts to back it yet.)

I want our marriage so bad, but am I living in fantasy world? Is there even a smidgin of a chance? I feel so tense right now with him here.

LL

LL

What your showing him is that he can have both of you. Your so worried about LB'ing him that you will let him show you all sorts of disrespect. What about him and talking about needing a bigger place for him and OW. I guess when it comes time you'll help him pay for the bigger place in the hopes he will then choose. He doesn't have to make any decision because he knows you will cave in.

Why can't you tell him to "Get Out". He's already out. He has his love nest with the OW. He already has gotten out. To continue to play a part in his life while he is in the A and drinking himself to death is not a good example for your children. What does that show your D or S.

He isn't there because of the kids he's there for you to meet some need of his. He's there to keep you under his thumb. Look at his actions, he thinks it right and normal for you to "nap" with him. He really has no respect for you. Even thought I love Poe with all my heart, I wouldn't put up with those types of actions. I will not share her with the OM, nor let her bounce back to me just for a quickie because the OM wasn't available.

I think there is no end to your situation as long as you show your H that your willing to share him. Right now he's having his cake. He really has no reason to end the current situation. And, even if he ended his A with the current OW, what makes you think another wouldn't start. You have shown him that your willing to except things as they are.

*I* think it's time to go to Plan B.

Let him HAVE ow all the time.

Some of your comments also sound like you are getting extremely sick of this game. Another reason it might be time to get off the roller-coaster and go to Plan B.

Think about it.

God Bless,

Silverthorn,

B]What about him and talking about needing a bigger place for him and OW. I guess when it comes time you'll help him pay for the bigger place in the hopes he will then choose. [/B]

You and everyone else can rest assured I will NOT do that. I didn't pay for his current place. I DID give him some $ for his security deposit, but it was from our joint savings account and was money he'd contributed to last year, so in effect was his anyway. Beyond that, I'm not paying.

The power steering pump he blew out he's put on our joint credit card and will be paying it with his 1/2 of our tax refund (which is set to be DD's into MY account).

Right now he's having heart failure downstairs because he realizes he's made a mistake in his checkbook and he's trying to find it (I clued him in when I did my last txfr for the weekly child support that the balance looked lower than he said it was). He's struggling, since I"m the one who normally reconciles the account. I printed out an account history from our on-line banking and handed it and a calculator to him. That's all I'm doing.

I did lay down and nap a bit, because I was tired and cold, but nap was it. No snuggle, no nuthin'. He's still here. I'm uncomfortable and you can tell he is too..maybe because at the moment he is sober and is drinking Dr. Pepper.

Lupolady,

I still need more guts for Plan B, but I agree I'm more uncomfortable when he IS around than when he ISN'T right now (though I still don't function well without hearing his voice at least once a day just to know that he's okay and that he still remembers me.)

LL

Dear LL,

You were worried about what you were going to do but I think you have done fine. Giving him the checkbook was a stroke of genius. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> A piece of reality that never goes away. I had to give the WS some of the same reality and the saying "$$ talks" is right.

As for his R with his children, comfort and love your children but he is the one who has to repair his damage. You can't do it for him and he needs to know this.

It is odd how many WS love to tell the BS they don't need the BS and how they (the WS) can handle it all. When push comes to shove, guess who crys uncle 1st? In the meantime, all that pain and suffering shores up the BS so that even if the worst comes from the Ws, the BS survives.

Hugz,
L.

After cursing the checkbook and the calculator, he found his mistake(s). He omitted a couple ATM's. He has over $100 less than he thought. Basically he has about $100 to live on over the next two weeks for groceries and gas. That should make buying his expensive booze (Crown Royal and J.D. pretty tough. Maybe OW will have to cough up some of her government assistance $?)

The thing that still stings is his comment tonight that if she were going to stay with him he'd have to get a 2br apt. I told him I thought that was the idea when he got the efficiency--she wouldn't be staying. She's pushing, he says.

One day the fog sounds like it's clearing, and the next day I'm losing all hope and am envisioning them together for all eternity.

He's really tense without his booze tonight. He's only had Dr. Pepper and water since he got here. I will compliment him when he wakes up, if I remember, on doing such a good job staying sober.

But here's where I'm stuck--he's still sleeping and I didn't make him leave. Now he's in my bed, leaving me to either sleep in it with me, or to sleep on the couch and freeze, because he took our extra blanket to the apartment for his bed.

You KNOW what I'm going to do. And then I"m going to come whining again about how bad I hurt.

Oh, one other comment he made just a little while ago during an awake period: "You sure don't act like you want me back."

I've been not all cozy and lovey--just pretty matter-of-fact tonight. I told him I truly want nothing more than for us to be together, but that I don't want to share him with someone else, so I'm backing off, giving him space, and working on taking care of me. (I kept a straight face and an even voice---I think it was believable even though I was shaking inside with fear that I'm pushing him away.)

So..the saga continues.

LL