JG what are you doing? Please go back and read what you just posted and think about how you would view this if someone else posted it.

Now...please don't take this the wrong way...but...what I read in your post was I, I, I, I....it seemed to be about CONTROL not recovery.

I TOO AM IN THE PROCESS OF TRYING TO BE A REFORMED CONTROL FREAK!! I too used to tell my H I was tired of carrying the load, tired of being his mom, etc.

Through IC what that really came to mean is that I always felt the need to CONTROL everything around me...did I do that because I was a *****? No, I did it because it had become a survival mechanism for me in childhood...something that in adulthood...I still carried with me. I had a a horrible childhood like you...the ones of us who turn out okay from a bad childhood usually end up type A's (control freak).

I did have enough self awareness to realize that this was a much my problem (was a control freak before even met him) as his. He was self aware enough to know that he didn't always help in this area.

Point is..he's not doing enough but he's doing more then most. You are doing alot but not really working on your control issue.

It seems you have a pattern going on here...you nag/lb him to death, give him all the things you think he needs to do...or you just shut up and wait for him to fail.

YOU NEED TO ASK YOURSELF THE SAME QUESTION I DID...DO YOU WANT HIM TO FAIL OR SUCCEED!!

Depending on this answer you need to make some decisions. If you want him to succeed...you need to also be willing to change.

If you want him and your M to succeed then you both need to get into IC and MC...if you don't it doesn't really matter what you want...you are going to fail...eventually both your love banks will be empty.

Try to change from looking at half empty glass to half full. He is trying..not doing enough but he's at least trying...think of that as a platform to work from.

What I am trying to say is that from the outside looking in you both have issues that need to be addressed...putting all the focus on him, isn't going to work...being civil to him for a few days isn't the answer...since all you do is hold it in and then explode.

My M didn't recover because one or the other of us worked hard to change but because we both did...at first I worked much harder but then he caught up.

Ok, enough of a 2X4 for now...just wanted to give you something else to think about.

JG, I think I hit a nerve with my questions, and I'm not surprised. I'm also not at all surprised that your view is different than WMP's. I expect it to be different.

But... if you file for divorce, you are the one who has taken action to end the marriage. In my mind, that makes you a threat to your marriage. I know, I know, it's because of what WMP has done and/or not done. Still, your actions are your own and only your own. This action, or threat of it, makes you a threat to your marriage.

What I'm wondering is whether you and WMP had time frames in mind for the actions he was going to take. Did you agree ahead of time on that?

I'm worried and hopeful for you two. You seem to both have lots of emotional energy available to spend on these things. That gives me hope.

You seem to spend much of your emotional energy locked in a struggle that isn't helping. That makes me worry.


And..... having said all this, I need this to be my last post to both of you.


See, what I see from both of you is a lot of hurt, a lot of blame, and a lot of "I can't do this I need the other person to do it." I'm really uncomfortable with the level of "telling on" each other that's happening right now. If you have problems with each other, it needs to be between the two of you and your chosen coach, now that you are heading into recovery. I can only ask you again to find and work with a solid professional who can guide you through this process.

If either of you would like to talk to me off-board, I'd love to; my e-mail is in my signature. But I'm worried enough about the damage that posting here is doing to your marriage that I'm going to step away from answering. Please, focus your energies on what you can do individually to help your marriage.

jAZZEY.

I don't think anyone here is so naive to believe that the one dimensional sides we get is the whole truth or picture from anyone...
the nature of the board itself poses great limitations on this type of communication being dead on target...

It appears that even without ALL the detail WMP is getting the same advice that you are getting.

you EACH are accountable for your own behaviors..REGARDLESS of what the other does or does not do..

If you want a serene home without yelling and cursing and screaming and ranting...then do everything in your power to create that on your end REGARDLESS of what he or anyone else does or does not do...

And he is the king of excuses...he has one for every action he does or does not do..and it would serve him well to quit defending himself with the excuses and become much more accountable and take some ownership...

and you jazzey should not ever tell him to get out unless you 100000000000000000% mean it..then and there when you say it...and are completely done...
holding it over him like a threat so that every three or four days you are telling him go no stay go no stay...is insane...

either commit YOURSELF to recovery which I am not convinced you have yet...or commit to ending the toture....

ARK...who is ready to throw darts at the both of you in your BEAUTIFUL picture you posted....
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (really nice picture...)

I could be SOOOOOOOOO writing your posts (and I think I have). My H and my recovery has definitely been a rollercoaster...or rather a merry-go-round, because we seem to be on a cycle.

I was interested in reading your posts after seeing your pictures, you both look very sweet, and young, and there is so much hope and love in your faces.

I hear myself in your posts...you want changes NOW!!!! And if they don't happen fast enough for you, you are afraid it will all come crumbling back to the beginning of recovery. I have told my H many times...why put up with this if we're only going to split anyway. That's the question, that leap of faith, that potential you will get your heart broken. Here's the kicker...one of you will end apart anyway. Even after years of being M, after a long life, one of you will die before the other (usually). So why bother?

Because it's the everyday joys we live for...
It's giving of yourself even though you don't get it in return. Work on ONE THING at a time...don't expect the entire list to get done in one week. You both are working on some serious habit changing stuff. WMP is working on time management, and I'll bet you have some LB's to get rid of and some lovebank fillin' to do.

Love the list...but work on ONE at a time. It's too much to work on EVERYTHING all at once. I'm serious, a habit only gets that way after a month...this is a slow process.

I too am prone to wanting to throw in the towel. I have given myself a deadline. I will give myself a full month, if things are not better after reviewing the month...I give a month's warning, after that month, I will plan to move out the end of hte next month. I know, seems fatalistic, but it really keeps me from making a snap decision about moving out "Right Now!!!!" or kicking him out.

So, make your own list....and POJA the heck out of both your lists...

JG..didn't mean to make you feel alone. I tried to point out that I had been there (still struggle some days).

You asked what else you can do...

Stop giving ultimatums that you don't mean...this was really hard for me...because at the instance I would utter my words I meant them, too.

Get into IC...you like me...have childhood issues to resolve..you need some inner child work. I think I pointed you to one of Kat's post on this in the past.

Get into MC.

Make a list of your own that you are going to do and start journaling.

Hang in there...we can all tell that no matter what you or your H post...you LOVE each other!

JG, I would start by first asking yourself how much time you think you will need to master your issues. I would then talk to WMP about how long it will take him to master his issues/lists. Then I would POJA on it and come up with something you both agree on.

You said you are working on your issues, are you in IC now?

I know your H is in counseling with his pastor but has he gone back to a qualified psychologist yet? How about MC.

It is dangerous to go this alone....you both need help. It was one of the hardest things for me to do to agree to go to counseling as well...I wanted to just scream at my H that this was his mess..I didn't need counseling...but I didn't because in my heart of hearts, I knew I needed help too.

Trick is to find the right person. For A counseling we counseled with SH. For IC and MC we went to the same person...she worked through A issues, childhood issues, marital issues, passive agressive and conflict avoidance issues with my H. With me she worked on childhood issues, better understanding my H and my obession and control issues. Together she worked with us on our communication skills. She worked with us on mastering a technique called mirroring...taught us to really listen to each other, how to empathize, how to not make it about us when the other one was talking. THIS WAS ONE OF THE BEST THINGS WE LEARNED..IT WAS SO HARD TO DO THIS...I ALWAYS WANTED TO MAKE IT ABOUT ME...WHATEVER HE SAID I DIDN'T REALLY LISTEN, I WOULD MAKE IT ABOUT ME....ONCE I STOPPED THAT..THINGS GOT BETTER QUICKLY!

Please don't go it alone...do whatever you have to do to find a qualified counselor to help you. Ours even went and learned more about MB since when we described it she liked it...she now steers some of her other patients here.

I think that your H wants to do the right thing with all his heart, however, I do not think he is capable of doing everything on his own...he has personal issues to deal with first.

You also will have trouble overcoming your childhood issues on your own.

PLEASE GET HELP!

This is a tough one, and I'm still struggling with this...but your H has become entwined in your wanting to control your happiness....if you could only fix him...you would be happy.

My H used to say to me "No matter what I do you won't be happy." And I used to think...no, I can think of 18 things you could change that would make me happy. But he's right, HE cannot make me happy, I have to do it myself.

I had to adjust my whole attitude. DJ's were my biggest LB (and still are), and I heard it in your line

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I made him set his goals. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Read that over and over again and see the attitude that waves out from it...that attitude that you know what is best for him, and that if he didn't have you, he would be nothing, and the attitude that if he only did what you wanted him to do....he would be happy, and so would you. Yep, been there, done (doing) that.

What woke me up one day was when H came back from IC and said I was abusive. I agreed, I am, not physically, but in my attitude and yelling. I would get angry, try to control the situation, tell him what to do, yell, scream, then feel guilty and apologize for it later.

The other challenge for me has been...what do you do with those nagging, controlling thought, when you know what is best, and he's doing it WRONG!!!
I think to myself...who am I to know what is wrong...I've been leaving my H out of the equation...he's got some great ideas. We POJA what we can, I ask his opinion about most things first, we cooperate more. I make sure we are both in agreement about something instead of steamrolling over.

You are an intelligent, strong woman who has an equally intelligent man by your side. But you have been making too many decisions alone, and denying your family your H's thoughts. Time to share the responsibility. And you have to do that not by expecting it, but by gently working out problems...

Sorry if I'm speaking out of turn, but you write so much like I would write....and the advice I would give myself, I find I want to give to you...

I am trying to live this way.

I find myself holding back with my H, expecting him to meet me "halfway". I say to myself, "If he truly loved me he would..." And that is not fair.

What I have learned in our recovery is that I have not been meeting him halfway. Sure, I've been working hard at this M, but working hard in allt he wrong ways. And as our MC has told both of us, we seem to be doing things unconcsiously to destroy our M.

Your H aside...can't change him.

What can you change???????? And there are some big shifts necessary to have a happier M. I would suggest switching IC, only because a different person can give you a different perspective. I wouldn't stay with one person all the time...sure you build up a R with them, but there is only so much you can learn from one person...

Just some thoughts.