So I told my lawyer to finally file the Dv documents with the court last Mon. Then Tuesday I dropped off a note to my H explaining what I'd done. (I posted that note in my previous thread.) After that my H and I had a couple of phone conversations. One all just sort of friendly banter. Then second one, late at night, he'd had a few drinks, and he chose to confess to having sex with one of his female friends on half a dozen occasions, and to having had oral sex (she attempted it on him without success) with the other female friend during our separation.

Then on the weekend, he called me several times and missed me. Then on Sunday we spoke and he was MAD because he'd spent the past two weekends at home hoping to spend time with me, but that I was too busy to be with him. (The thing is, he tried phoning me on the SAME day as he wanted to try spending time together, and I wasn't around. DUH, you need to make plans with people at least one day in advance...but he said he shouldn't have to do that.) He told me how he had no friends yet again. He got mad because I told him that was his choice. He said all of his friends either slept with me (that's 1 for the record) or wanted to, so he can't be around them anymore. We argued about a variety of things, he yelled angrily, I tried to be calm in my response and got called callous, he worked hard to point out where I had gone wrong in my supposed attempts to work on our marriage in the past 2 years, eventually I said there is no productive point to this phonecall, we're rehashing everything and getting no where, so goodnight.

He also mentioned once again how he'd wanted me to wait until summer at least (to file). He also said how the way I should've gone about things was to let him call ALL of the shots for at least 6 months, and then maybe he could've started letting me have some say, and then we'd be back together. How sick is that??

After all of the angry and argumentative phone calls on Sunday, Monday he calls me asking me very nicely if I want to come over and watch a movie of all things. I asked him why it is that he wants to spend time with me now, knowing that the Dv is going through, if it's b/c he wants to work on a frienship, or a romantic relationship or what? He said he didn't know and got all angry and defensive about my asking too many questions. I said to him, don't you see, I filed, I'm done, the most I want from you at this point is friendship, maybe you need to reread the note I gave you. He said he didn't know why he keeps on trying. I said I didn't know either, that sometimes it's just easier to give up, which is why I filed for Dv. He said, yeah, we can't even talk to each other. He said call me if you want to talk about the weather sometime.

He is so ANGRY sounding, so FRUSTRATED sounding. He even perhaps sounds somewhat NEEDY. Why does he think I still want to go and hang out with him? I see his attempts to get me over to his house as him wanting sex.

I guess he just doesn't want to let go, even though he's too afraid to make a commitment to me?

Jen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ February 17, 2004, 08:45 AM: Message edited by: Jen Brown ]</small>

Hello,

A manipulator never stops trying to manipulate.
He is such a game player and he is upset because you refuse to play his stupid games anymore. Enough is enough. He is a little boy who is mad because he is not getting his way. It is time to move on and establish a new life for you. Don't believe anything he says because he is incapable of telling you the truth unless it is by mistake.
Move on! Good Luck.

but he said he shouldn't have to do that.)

Because he has gotten quite used to you being at his beck and call. He calls...you react. You have admitted to that in past posts.

He also mentioned once again how he'd wanted me to wait until summer at least (to file). He also said how the way I should've gone about things was to let him call ALL of the shots for at least 6 months, and then maybe he could've started letting me have some say, and then we'd be back together. How sick is that??

I believe that he said this very same thing last year...when you intially consulted an attorney. He was going to get back with you by Sept...but you contacted an attorney...so he was not going to even discuss it. He is really jerking your chain Jen.

We argued about a variety of things, he yelled angrily, I tried to be calm in my response and got called callous,

Nope...don't remain calm in your response... HANG UP THAT VERY SECOND. You are doing the dance with him again. A raised voice needs to be cut off.

He is so ANGRY sounding, so FRUSTRATED sounding. He even perhaps sounds somewhat NEEDY. Why does he think I still want to go and hang out with him? I see his attempts to get me over to his house as him wanting sex.

He is furious because he no longer is total control. Don't be thinking that he is needy because that will start you on another one of your guilt trips...and they trip you up everytime. He knows what strings to pull with you...if he sounds all pitiful Jen will come to console him. Don't fall for it.

I guess he just doesn't want to let go, even though he's too afraid to make a commitment to me?

If he lets go, who is he going to manipulate? You are his puppet on a string...and he really enjoys that.

I have a feeling you are second guessing your decision....don't do it Jen. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

JMHO
committed

Jen,

I have read many of your posts in the past but I don't recall that I have responded to you before,perhaps once.BUT,why do you keep spinning your wheels on this man??

Just like someone else mentioned,he is a *manipulator and he has not changed.Good grief,stop answering the phone and talking to this guy.You have no reason to be in contact anymore except for legal issues and every time you do you end up here with questions regarding your feelings.

You are still playing the what if game in your head and instead of moving on and letting your ex move on you are still caught in this cycle.If there is EVER a chance for you and he to get back together,you both need to break away from eachother and grow *separately.You both are feeding the sickness and there is no good relationship to come from that.How could even desire a "friendship" with him? Think more clearly about just what a friend means.

O

Hi Jen: Well, although you sound like you are moving on with your life, your H is finally starting (I repeat, starting) to tell you the truth about his life during your separation.

I'm not sure why he now feels this need, other than that he is finally understanding you are leaving his life for good.

I still think this man needs some IC. Until he starts facing his own demons he will probably continue his manipulative behaviour to not only you but any other woman who may become his date/friend in the future.

Do you really want to keep having interactions with him? Are you sure you don't still have some underlying need for him? Maybe you're afraid of living without him because that's all you really know. You know that you deserve better than this treatment, right?

I guess the thing is that maybe even friendship isn't going to work. He will just irritate, annoy and exhaust me even more. He will swing from being "nice" in order to manipulate me, to being a jerk when he doesn't get his way. (Which is what he's behaved like since we've separated, no surprise, I guess I'm a bit foolish for thinking it would change with the filing of the Dv papers.)

I am not second-guessing my decision. I am so glad I finally made the right decision. This crazy behaviour on his part makes me feel even better about that choice actually.

As for why do I keep spinning my wheels on this man, and why do I keep answering the phone? Because I am so obsessed with doing the right thing and coming off as a good person, and there's a small part of me that still does care about his well-being. I don't have an underlying need for him. I am so much happier when I don't have to see or interact with him, it's not even funny.

I know the easiest thing to do would be to tell him look, I don't want to talk to you anymore ever again. But that's not the truth (see the reasons in the previous paragraph). I would love to be able to go and live my life totally without him, but I don't think I could live with myself if we didn't remain on amicable terms.

I suppose I ought to tell him the next time he calls (I have no intentions of calling him), "Look, if we're going to try to be friends, I can handle occasional phone visits, if the topic has nothing to do with our relationship, and I could handle meeting in public to visit, but no hanging out at either of our homes. My goal is no longer to become a happy couple again, it's to just maintain friendship and that is it."

Thanks for your objectivity again folks!

Jen

On second thought, why even visit on the phone or otherwise? What would we talk about? My life is none of his business anymore. I need to find a tactful way to say, look, I can't do this. How do I do that without feeling like an evil person??

Jen

I need to find a tactful way to say, look, I can't do this. How do I do that without feeling like an evil person??
Just say, "No thanks. I've already made plans" and leave it at that. You do not need to explain what those plans are.

Sorry for being a bit vague....by saying "I can't do this" I mean I can't keep trying to interact and be friends, not that I just don't want to accept one invite.

It will be so hard for him to accept if I try to tell him I want no more contact. Would it be cowardly to just ignore his calls and beat him into submission by ignoring him?

Jen

Jen,

You have to stop beating yourself up about not being in contact with your STBXH.You can wish him well but have no more contact.You are not evil nor cowardly so stop that negative thinking.Just because you don't play into his game doesn't mean you are any less human.

Doing the right thing does not mean you continue to be plugged into this dysfunctional relationship and you have done the right thing by the D.You can still care about him of course but do that from afar.Caring about him doesn't mean staying in contact.On the contrary,it is letting him go.

Maybe you could *write him a NC letter of sorts,something with finality but caring.

O

Hi Jen,

I think that, by keeping yourself open to your H right now (in any way), it is actually hindering him more than helping. So long as you are available for him to focus on and vent his feelings to, he will not be able to grow past those emotions and mature. He needs to deal with that stuff head on without any distractions to finally emerge on the other side.

In the short run it will be harder for him without you, but long term it is for the best.

I guess I could write him a letter, but as I've said before, he tends to ignore letters, and treat them as though they don't exist. I still may try that option though.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> by keeping yourself open to your H right now (in any way), it is actually hindering him more than helping. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Interesting point, something I didn't think of before. I guess if I keep letting him have me in his life, he won't learn to grow without me.

Last night he tried to call me twice, after I'd gone to bed, so I didn't answer. He left a message the first time he called at 10:30pm saying, "I want to apologize for how much you hate me. I really do apologize." His expected result was to get me to call him back and argue over the point of whether I hate him or not. I've told him countless times before that I don't hate him, so he knew he was pushing my buttons when he said that. The second time he called was at like 11:40pm. He must be having trouble sleeping is my guess. Trouble sleeping without sex first.

Honestly, right now my plan is to not reach out to him to contact him in any way, including a letter. The next time he calls here at a reasonable time, I'll answer and let him know once again that I'm no longer interested in a romantic relationship with him, and that for now I think it would also be easier to forego even trying to maintain a friendship.

But I guess the problem with that is that in my heart, I still have this intense feeling that I would be happier and feel better about myself if I can at least remain friends with him and be there for him as a source of support, although maybe as justexhausted said, maybe that's going to make life more difficult for him (and me) in the long run.

Jen

Jen,

I don't think we are getting through to you,I think we may need a fog horn pretty soon if you don't stop.You are starting to sound like a WS,making no sense at what the situation presents.

This "feeling" you have about remaining friends and being better off for it needs introspection ALONE.Don't pick up the phone,better yet,get caller ID and if it's STBXH don't answer.If you stop picking up the phone,he may just get a clue that you are no longer interested,ya know??

O <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />