Hey *heroswife*, I just wanted to say that I am sorry. If there is one thing I learned this weekend, it was not whether I think what I did was wrong or not, I learned that if it hurt you, then it was wrong and I truly apologize for it and I hope you will accept my apology so we can move forward and put this behind us. *heroswife* I love you so much and I am lucky to have you.

This weekend we went to a marriage conference. That's what he's talking about when he says what he learned this weekend.

Do you think this means he does not think he's done anything wrong?

I'm glad he sent this to me but at the same time I'm very confused about what he's saying.

Not at all, he is saying he may not have realized some of the things he was doing was hurting you. He is telling you he did not see the hurt he caused but now realizes if you say you were hurt then what he was doing to cause it was wrong. he is telling you he is sorry for any wrong doing weather he meant it or not.

Hi Heroswife

Well if you ask me he doesn't sound like he thinks he did anything wrong, but he is sorry he hurt you. Is he remourseful for his actions? It also doesn't say he's right. He still sounds a little foggy.

Plan A for you until you get the true meaning. But it seems kinda hopeful to me.

Do I ask him if he thinks what he did was right?

I'm so confused.

This weekend he wrote me a letter as an assignment for the conference. In that letter he wrote:

One day I hope I wake up and realize what I've done and I hope you are there beside me when I do.

This seems like fog to me. I don't want to screw things up. We've come so far. How can I lift the fog? If this is fog.

No, he does not seem remorseful right now. At times, like when I am crying or after a huge fight he seems almost remorseful but for the most part he gets angry when I try to talk to him. He is doing a lot to try to help me through this. I don't want to screw this up. I need help

They are usually not remorseful at first. Stay in Plan A. Read on the home page the "quick clicks" sections on how the affair should end, overcoming resentment, restoration, and reconciliation.

Don't LB. Come here and yell. It's great.

heroswife....

I'm really glad to see you are still here learning with the rest of us <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It sounds pretty foggy to me, too. However, with your circumstances, not having NC, that is going to take (probably) much longer to fully clear.

Expect to see mostly clear days, but more often mostly foggy days. This process takes time, and a lot of it without contact. He has a daily reminder of all that happened and that is hard to overcome.

It does seem like he understood the principle of the hurt he inflicted you with, and how his actions caused that pain. It doesn't seem that he's come FULLY to understand the big picture, of the damage he's really done.

It's sort of like saying "I'm sorry you are mad at me".... Not apologizing for feeling remorseful for the A, but for the pain he caused you, therefore putting his selfish self in some embarrassing and hurtful moments with you.

Although he's in counseling, and has expressed that he wants you, I would encourage you to hold him very accountable to his actions and whereabouts until you "feel" him starting to reconnect with you consistantly. My WW went through 5 false NC "promises", and I'm still doing some spot checking to see that the last one is "real".

In the mean time, Plan A your a$$ off, and continue to learn about the MB philosophy, and read the posts here.

Regarding your post on the other topic, I'm one of those who would "kill" for one so willing to meet the SF needs. My only advice to you is to initiate pleasant conversation about all EN's and when comfortable with how it's going, do your best to get your H to express his feelings.

Still pulling for you....

SD

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by heroswife:
<strong> Do I ask him if he thinks what he did was right?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I suggest not - yet.

I agree with the others, the fog may be thinning, but he's not in the clear yet.

This is where I have no direct experience. Consider repeating this post on the recovery board - and please consider counseling with one of the MB counselors.

If he's being sincere, the hard part is about to begin (or so I've been led to believe).

WAT

Hello "heroswife". I am in a similar situation. I just discovered a "budding" EA between my H of 23 years and a much younger woman last month. He also denies any PA, and says "that would never be a possiblity".
My take on your husbands e/mail is that it is slightly ambiguous, but he basically feels that if "it" (EA)was something that hurt you, then it is/was wrong. It does sound to me that he is not quite sure himself that what he did WAS wrong. Has he said that he was "in love" with the OW or anything like that? I didn't find your original post. Upon finding much evidence and acutely observing my H's behavior, when I confronted him, he originally denied any feeling for the OW. Upon more "proof" - he admitted he had been "infatuated". With much more discussion and pointing out to him exactly what he said to the OW in e/mails and in his behavior (he took her out to lunch 5 times, secretly and alone) he admitted that his behavior was something that had bordered on "mental illness" and, in fact, it "probably was more than infatuation".
In my H's case, he has said he was very wrong, stupid, etc. But then, I don't know if I caught him with more than you did with your H? In any case, in MY opinion, your husband sounds like he is sorry that he hurt you, but he may need much more convincing/counseling to discover that what he did was also wrong.

TTH

TTH -

I'm glad you found me. I've read almost all of your posts about your situation. I too, felt like we had a lot in common. I'm glad you are here now. I think we can help each other a lot.

I found emails and call records. He confessed as soon as he knew I had tangible evidence. I then called the OW - his new boss or at that point..soon to be new boss. She wouldn't admit a thing but once I told her I had been to the commander of another unit and spoken to a JAG officer she changed her story to "please don't rat me out, I swear I'll change the way I do business".

OK, I have to run my H is on the other computer next to me and I need to keep my eyes peeled for shadyness.

Thank you all for you encouragement. I think I might take the advice of posting this email in some of the other boards to see what other people think.

This level of fog is not what I expected from him after the way he's been acting lately.

I think I LBed. I sent him an email asking him if he thought what he did was right.

I think that he thinks (bad way to start off a thought I know) is that because I have no evidence or hardcore evidence that there was a PA he thinks I'm over reacting.

The emails I found suggested a PA....it's cold outside I wish we could snuggle up together...things like that. They had just spent a week together at a work related event. The emails and phone calls started long before then. I was supposed to go with him but he told me not to at the last minute. He also said the OW would not be there but she was. He spent a lot of time with her during that week. There were nights he didn't get back to his room until after 3 in the am. Those are the nights I'm aware of. There's no telling what I do not know.

It was the night he came back from this trip that he told me he wanted out of our marriage. That next Friday was D-Day. I found the emails between them and he confessed but still denies a PA.

I'm so confused. One minute I feel hopeful and the next I just feel helpless.

I want to scream and yell at him. And I want to just walk away. I want to leave this and never look back. He deserves it. He deserves to be alone or be with the OW if she decides to leave her H which I'm sure she won't. He makes too much money and they have kids. There's no way my H could provide her with the things he offers her.

I don't care anymore. He can have her and she can have him.

I'M SICK OF THIS!!!!!!!!!!!

HW,

Your H can see the right road but he isn't there yet. In the A school for WS and OPs, they learn right up front how to babble. The best of OPs and Ws can then use their babbling skills in other professions (lawyers, politicians, etc.) LOL!!!

It is important for the BS to learn what to place trust in and what not to. This will ocntrol how the BS reacts. At this time you want to discect (sp??) each sentence and word. He can't go there with you because you see babbling doesn't hold up well under the light of thruth. Hence his anger, regression and blame. In return you are sooo sensative right now, any agression will send you recoiling. Not good.

We need you to stretch your MB legs and move forward. My take w/b to respond to his letter and say, it sounds encouraging and confusing at the same time. Was it meant to be that way?

Let him respond. Never attack directly. Ask your requests,. No demands. If he doesn't answer, drop it for the moment. You will be able to bring it up later. It will be better to do it later when you are not so emotionally tight.

Breathe, deep cleansing breathes. Go do something nice for yourself. Keep busy and then the right time will come.

L.

Thank you Orchid.

Sometimes this is just so hard to deal with. I still can't believe this is all happening to me.

I just get so hopeless sometimes I want to scream.

I'm trying to do a good plan A but there's a part of me that thinks he should be the one making all this effort. He acts like it didn't happen. Like I just made it all up in my head. Likes it's no big deal that he was going to walk out on us and leave my children in a broken home.

I don't understand how he be this way. I just don't understand.

HW,

Right now you are not meant to understand Illogic.

Rather focus on moving forward. Can't fix the past. it is now his job to fix the future. If he doesn't then you do it for you and your family. He is responsible for fixing himself just as you are responsible for fixing yourself.

Comes down to the same thing in the end.
Responsibility, accountability and love.

L.

I know I know. I just can't help it sometimes. I get crazy with maddness and I just want revenge.

But then I have times where I'm just glad he's here now and that we are working for recovery.

I feel like I'm ruining it all. I'm just not moving as fast as he would like for me to. But then again, he's still in the fog.

I can't lift the fog if I'm angry. I just need to not be angry. It's just hard.

I understand your hurt and need for revenge.
Do you think its possible, as the fog has not been broken, that he is denying the PA because he knows you have no proof?
What is your gut feeling?

Good luck, dont give up

My gut is yes. I stongly believe there was a PA and he knows that I cannot prove that at this point.

I'm sure that's why he is denying the PA. He thinks if I know there was a PA I'll burn his career.

I almost feel like he is protecting her here because she would go down in a blaze of glory as well. She would face more criminal charges than him. We are military and she is his boss.

<small>[ February 19, 2004, 05:59 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

Heroswife, it may help you to read my post "How my BS lifted the fog."

I posted it on 6 February under "In Recovery".

Jenny

D-Day 10/21/03
Me (WW) 49
H (BS) 55
OM (M w 3 children) (Old BF)51
EA 3 months PA 5 months then EA (same OM)7 months
Married 30 years
2 Children S (26) D (23)

Thank you KiwiJ -

I have read your posts and suggested other new comers to go there as well.

I greatly appreciate your insight and I hope you stay here for a while. I think you can help a lot of us BSs. We need all the help we can get.