Dont worry that right now she balks at the idea of continuing your marriage. I know that I had serious self-esteem issues because I initially quickly forgave my husband...only to see him cheat again. She may need to feel secure within herself before she can even acknowledge that there may be another way. Dont despair.

Think about it in terms of your story thread. A woman badly injured, although she needs the best from you, she needs time to heal and regain her own strength before she can even fathom getting up from her sick bed.

It is easy to panic...just remember you are now becoming the man you need to be for the rest of your life. It won't happen over night for either of you.


ayslyne

Well, lastnight was strange again. I finally got the network up and going(Small project of mine). And went over to her house lastnight to get my gear. I had some clothes over at my parents house that I brought over and she asked me to stay for supper. Minus her running back and forth working on the house and going to the computer it was really good. I folded some of the kids clothes and talked to our S about cleaning his room up.

We all ate at the dinner table. We usually kinda spread out when it's supper time. And I think it's the best meal I've had in months. I mean she cooks good when she wants but this was awesome. Especially considering that I don't like anything to do with chicken unless it's a breast. After we ate and got the kids in bed I was about to leave and asked if she'd get off the computer and have a smoke with me before I left. She came over and we talked a little and she complained about her legs being dry. Well, I took the hint and put lotion on them. Then asked if she needed it anywhere else. She indicated her feet could use some and I did a good job on em. I told her I should go and she patted the seat beside her and we ended up holding each other and kissing alot. I had been hugging her alot the entire night and we had a problem of staying off of each other.

It's kinda weird. I'm up for ANY kinds of affection and she seems to be in need of 'sexual' affection. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I've been trying to help her know that I'm still very much attracted to her. And that she is beautiful. But that will take awhile. She is doing something about it though. She been dieting and is getting back in to karate. I'm also working on my self esteem issues. But I sprained my darn wrist(stupid hand wraps, er it was my fault for not getting the joint covered enough). Will take awhile, but my pants are fitting better after all the unintentional fasting though. And the new clothes she has makes her look really hawt. But then again I've always told her she didn't have to wear any clothes to make her look sexy....

Anyway, enough of the sappy stuff....

I'm considering writing her a letter, but I don't want to make her angry. The problem is that in my neglect of her needs/feelings it will sound like I'm trying to suck up to her and be false. Bah, I'm going to do it anyway. It's been a long time since I've writen her a letter.

I think I'm also going to cook dinner tonight for her and the kids. She has been wanting Jap. for awhile now, I don't even know exactly what that is let alone how to cook it. If anyone has an suggestions lemme know <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Well, the cooking went so-so .. She had mentioned that she wanted some of the thick chops with some rosemary and a cpl different spices baked. So, I picked up some lastnight and went to work. I got some carates, pineapple for on top and onions. Now, I'm a pretty weird eater, everything must be plain. So it's hard for me to cook a lot of 'good' stuff. Some of you might be laughing at me right now, but keep in mind I was trying to be good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> The sides were baked potatos, 23 herb wild rice and fresh brocholli... I think it turned out pretty good, but I forgot to ask S this morning when I took him to school.

If anyone has better ideas of what to cook lemme know. I'm a pretty gimp cook.

There was actually a lot more to the dinner than I talked about before. I talked about it in another thread, but I LB'd when I told her I was feeling snubbed.

Things have went down hill since then. She didn't want to have much to do with me over the next cpl of days. But she got the phone turned on yesterday and it wasn't working right. Well, I took a look at it. There needed to be some wiring(rewiring) done. I agreed to do it but I told her I would need some cable since I ran out. She said write it down. I was like I don't know how much you need. And she got aggitated and told me fine she'd just get it hired out. I didn't want to tell her to get way too much(I always do that). And tried explaining that to her. I told her to just get 75' and that would be enough. Later I felt bad about it so I went and got it myself. I brought the kids home around 9 o'clock and she asked me if I had got the cable. I told her I had and she asked if I was going to hook it up that night. That kinda hurt my feelings because it was late and very dark. Who wants to get into a crawl space and root around trying to connect little bitty wires in the middle of the night. She finally said "your really upset by this aren't you?". I was like yeah, but I'll do it anyway. She didn't even say sorry or anything. That went over strangly. She came out to 'help' me. She got into the crawl space with me for a few minutes and then got out to work on the outside. She asked me what I wanted for doing it for her. Like a kiss, hug or dinner. I didn't know how to take that, but it made me feel a little cheap <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I ended up getting off work a little early today due to a fire and weather. She has been having a really hard time with the kids lately and I told her I would watch them for awhile. I tried to get her to come out and play in the snow with us but she was tired and not interested.

I got her to go into the bedroom and started rubbing her back. I just want to be affectionate. But she had warned me that she was amourous<sp>. I tried to cuddle with her and things turned into sex. I wasn't planning on being on the recieving end but she insisted on it. This has happend 3 times since Dday. Every time I feel more and more dirty. I want to be there for her and fulfull her needs but this is really starting to bothering me. I can't figure out if it's a destructive behavior for her or not.

And something happened lastnight after I got the phone hooked up. I called over there to see if I could use my desktop computer and the phone was busy. I went over there to burn a quick cd and she said she was sleeping. I asked her again if she had been sleeping and she said yeah. So I came back home and tried calling one more time to make sure I wasn't crazy. The phone was still busy. Later today she said she talked to a friend lastnight because it was a hard night. And when I had left the first time after fixing the phone she was getting IM's like crazy. But wouldn't alt-tab over to them. She made sure to keep them hidin. I turned my back for a few to deal with the kids and half the chat screens disappeared.

I don't know. I can't figure anything out between the two of us. Well, I can. I know we BOTH have to try to make things work. But I'm trying to do a kind of A plan in that I'm doing everything I can to let her know that I love and care about her. I never stopped loving and caring about her. I did a really stupid thing, the wrong thing of trying to get over her with someone else. I know that, and am very sorry for it. But I don't know what else I can do. I honestly believe our relationship can work if we both put 100% into it at the same time. And I know I have to grow as a person before I can worry about anything else but in the back of my mind I'm still doing it for her. I want her to be happy. I've been waffling back and forth between it being better for her for me to leave her alone and hope she finds a good man on down the road and trying to be that man. I know I'm going to have to be a better man for myself and everyone around me but I can't get over thinking about her in that equation. I'll be going on meds wed. hopefully that'll help.

Grrrr... Beating my head against the wall is more productive.

I don't know if what I'm doing is making it harder on her or not. I'm trying to be there for her to have someone to lean on. I'm just afriad she won't be able/want work on our relationship. And I'm not even sure it's fair for me to even ask for it.

I guess I just need some feedback on if I'm being foolish for getting my hopes up. I'm willing to commit to making this work. And am willing to put in the time to get it done. Pretty much everyone but her mother has told me to cut my losses and try to get along with her for the kids. Her mom seems to be the only one that believes we can still work things out.

For the people that have been keeping up with things... Please let me know what you think?

I went over and had a long talk with her. It was a good talk. We got our feelings out in the open. No real fighting, there were a few jabs thrown from her side(she deserves that).

She is moving forward, and her choice is to do it without me. We both have needed to move forward for a long time now. I just hoped that we would be able to do it together. I can't help but think maybe things will change because everything is still very fresh. I told her about the A's the 15th. I had talked to her about D before then. I had decided I couldn't keep going in the marriage the way that is was. I intended for us to get ourselves together, then work on the M with each other. I knew something had to change. After talking to a friend I decided to tell her about the A's. I'm still having a hard time dealing with that decision. I know in my heart that it was right and fair for her to know. But the selfish side of me wonders if we would be working toward fixing things right now if I hadn't. I know it still wouldn't work because things would be based on a lie.

I don't know how either one of us is going to make it. I know we will, just not how. I still worry about her greatly. I don't want her to be alone right now when she needs support. I want to be her support but how can I be when I'm the one that is causing her grief. I know that feeling well because I have felt it before when we were seperated. She has gotten back in touch with a friend, and that's a bitter sweet thing in an of itself. I know her friend will do her best to help her through this. I hope it's the right way. I also know that her friend will work against us trying to work things out. But that's the bed I made, now I have to sleep in it.

Now, for my side of it. I guess this is also selfish, but I don't know what to do with myself. I still keep holding on to this hope that she will change her mind. She came out and said that I have the protental to be a very great man. Career-wise and husband-wise. If I just take the time to learn and pay attention. And I know deep down that if things don't work out that I will meet someone and start fresh one day. I'm learning a lot right now and plan on putting it to good use. But I have a hole in my heart for her ... She has been the only person I have considered marrying, she has had my children. I owe this woman a LOT. And now I don't feel like I'll ever be able to pay her back.

For the people that keep up with the Ennagram<sp> test. I'm a type 6w7 believe it or not. My personality is at the extreme of unhealthy. I guess that's part of the reason for the A's(Don't get me wrong, if I haven't said it enough, I made a VERY bad desision). I have been unhealthy for such a long time. I want to get better, I want to be a better person for those around me. I just can't imagine that without her in my life. She has worked hard to give me hamburgers. I needed water, but even I didn't know it at the time, or I wasn't able to articulate it. I hate that all her hard work is going to be for naught. I mean she has learned and IS learning alot right now and that is very worthwhile, but she has spent so much time with me and trying to help get me to where I need to be.

We had built up so much resentment that we, atleast I feel, started holding each other back. That way the other one wouldn't get left behind. On both sides. Why is this all so clear now? All I had to do was met her needs, everything else was there. We love each other. We care about each other. The attraction is still there. But there is now a big pile of [censored] on top of everything. She has been sending me wakeup calls throughout the marriage. I can't figure out how I missed them. Blatant attempts to get me to fix my issues. I know I can fix them, I'm trying right now. But it's too late. I never thought in terms like that. I always thought it was never too late till you were dead. But that's not the case.

I know I have to stop dwelling on the past, but how do you do that? And everyone tells me to stop looking toward the future and worry about one day at a time. How the h*ll am I going to do that? Right now I don't see a way... I know there is one, and that I'll find it, but my heart isn't listening to my head.

I guess a lot of what is bothering me so much is hope. Seems like a simple, and good thing, but I don't know. I still have hope that we will get back together down the road and work on fixing things together. But then I stop and think about all the roadblocks and all the hurt feelings and don't see a way for us to do that. I told her my side is open. I'm willing to do whatever it takes for us to work out everything and build a life together. A happy, fulfulled life. She left a crack. I don't know how to take it. I analyze everything to death. Did she leave it there because it is real, and sincere, or did she leave it there to make sure I would make it through the next few months without falling completely apart? I'm so scared right now...

After our talk tonight I felt we were moving forward and it felt good. Forward is better than staying the same or moving backward. But we are also moving apart. I don't want to move forward if it means moving apart so I try(fabricating hope maybe?) to believe that things will still work out. But that leaves me at the same place. I'm not moving anywhere. I mean I'm trying to grow personally but it goes back to doing it for the wrong reasons(her).

I know the path I need to take, and I'm starting to figure out how to get there. But my heart isn't going along with it quite right. How do other people cope? I don't do that very well, look at the A's...

I feel for all you hurting people out there.

Ref: The hamburger story is a good one. I came across a thread where someone was comparing needs to being in a desert. When your in a the desert you need a glass of water. If your spouse spends a lot of time on making you hamburgers it's nice but it doesn't take care of your needs.

Spelling > ME

becoming,
I don't have many good suggestions to offer, but I just wanted to let you know you are not alone. We seem to be in the exact same situation. I keep thinking that there are so many mixed messages right now... I slipped on ice the other night and my W came to my rescue so fast that it shocked me - and her concern for my well-being, the way she reacted, took me by surprise. Maybe my W is a little more ambivalent than yours, but it's so confusing seeing how she can be so loving towards me at times, and then she seems to remember "oh yeah, I'm not supposed to love him anymore", and the cold shoulder reappears. She won't kiss me anymore when we part, but the other night she said "come here", and I walked towards her and stopped - and she said "closer, I want to give you a hug". Mixed messages. The worst part.

I too am working on myself, and she insists that she cannot take me back after what I did to breach her trust. We've only been separated a month, so I know I have to continue to show her how much I love her for a lot longer - and I know I need to do that without ever being needy or selfish. Tonight she called me, sick, and asked if I could get her some cold medicine. I jumped - was about to go into the gym, but I took a detour. Didn't let her know that, because I'm not looking for applause or a pat on the back. My W is everything to me, and that means when she has a need, I am there to meet it. Priorities. I was selfish and used to put my needs before hers - such as watching football on Sunday and telling her to go out without me. No more. Listen to Harley's Radio links on this site. I learned a few things from those sound clips.

Will any of this make a difference? Don't know. But I know I have to make these changes in my life anyway, if for no other reason than to not repeat the same mistakes I've made in my next relationship if this one ends. I know what I want - my W and family back in my life - but I also know that in a sense, it is selfish to want ANYTHING right now. So I just make my priorities and follow them. As was said here - walk the walk.

I wish you all the best, and though I don't have a lot of advice for you, I hope that knowing your not alone will help you to continue on your way. From what I've read, you're doing all the right things, but there are no guarantees in life. What's done is done, and unfortunately for us, forgiveness from others is not a right, it is a gift - a gift that you may never receive. But hold your head high, because we are all human and all make mistakes. That's why we're here discussing these things. You're definitely not alone, not by any means. Best wishes.

Well, it's been a few days since I've updated...

Things have gotten worse. I don't know why, I've still been trying to keep everything together. I've not gotten ill with her about much. Although I have a little because of being pushed. She called friday after noon and told me she had gotten her hair appointment rescheduled for saturday at 2.. I was like okay, I've made plans to help a buddy haul off some junk but I'll check with him and work something out. After talking to him I called her back and said it'd be real tight but I'd get them in enough time she'd be able to make it. She also said she was going to go over to her friends house that night. I made a point of not offering to watch the kids because I needed to get some sleep if I was going to start early on hauling the junk off.. That and I haven't had a day/evening to myself since all this started. Well, I ended up not getting back into the office till 6:30 and just left my cell in the jeep while I went in to clock out. I ended up having an inbox full of mail that I had to go through(Mail from boss! Yikes!) and didn't get out till like 7. I noticed she called and called her back to see what she wanted. She said she had been waiting on me and wanted to know where I was. I was like I'm on my way to get the stuff you asked me to pick up for the kids. And she starts going off on me about how I promised to watch the kids tonight so she could go to her friends house. I was like I did not say that. I don't understand.. She said well I'm just making it up and I'm a liar. But we BOTH know who the REAL liar is in this relationship.... That smarted... And I was getting pretty mad at this point. But I gave ground because she had told the kids that I was going to watch them. I don't know if she was just planning to hint around for me to watch the kids and forgot that I never said anything or if she wanted to give me a guilt trip to get me to watch them while she went out. Who knows... But I told her I had to bring them over there in the morning because I was leaving early. Well, she came by my folks house lastnight around 11:30 and when I didn't answer the door from her knocking(Me and the kids were asleep in the bedroom at the back of the house) she decides to walk in and get me out of bed. It was almost like she was hot because I wasn't getting out of bed fast enough. She had 'lost' her house key and needed mine. I was just going to run over with her and unlock the door. She hasn't filed for D yet and the house is still ours. But she blew up and I ended up giving over the key. I wasn't even sure which one was the house key... Half the time I have to try two before I get it right. She picked it out right away... hmmmm... I don't know if she really forgot her key or just wanted to make sure I couldn't get in... It's still aggrovating.. She could just ask... Well she stormed out and I ended up throwing my shoes on and caught her in the middle of the yard and appolagized... I haven't figured out why though.. She was being a little more than hateful to me.

Well, I ended up getting my stuff done today just in time to get back to get the kids at 1:30. Takes about 20-30min for her to get to beauty shop. But she called me half way home and asked how things went. She was pretty distant but acted like everything was normal. I don't know, that really through me off and I lost a lot of my anger. I was being pretty distant too. I'm starting to wonder if this can really be fixed at all. I mean we have been trying since we got married and neither of us has tried at the same time. The chemistry has been there we just can't get the timing down. I started thinking about the past a lot and started wondering why I was trying so hard if she wasn't going to try at all. I'm getting over the guilt enough now to remember why things were bad to begin with. It comes down to a lot of resentment. And her tendency to cake eat is bothering me. Because I'm being a fool if I allow it. I did once before and never thought twice about it. When I told her, after several months, that I wasn't going to do it anymore and that she would have to start doing things for herself. She thought she'd be able to take me to court and wipe me out. She decided she wanted to work things out after I mentioned no judge in his right mind is going to push me into the negative while she wasn't doing her part. Hmmmmm... Very foolish I have been in a lot more ways than the A's. Don't get me wrong, the A's were very bad and I will always be paying for them but thinking back to the time around when they happened if I would have just went ahead with the D like she wanted then I would feel much better about myself. Everyone would probably be healthier and we wouldn't be having to deal with all this. I'd say our selfesteems would probably even be close to good..... should've, could've, would've... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I guess I just can't make up my mind that it's over. I can look back and say I've been a fool for what I've done and for letting her do some of the things she has done. But if she told me she wanted to work things out and started working toward that I'd be trying to pull that cart right be side her 100%. But the more time that goes by and the more she LB's the more that want will dwendle. I'm the only one that cares about the LB's.. Duh, I just need to get on with my life. She doesn't care and I need to accept that. Otherwise I will be hurting for the rest of my life.

I did work a little toward 'the rest of my life' today. I went and looked at an appt. It has ugly carpet, bad lighting and it's only one bedroom... But I sure would like to have it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I just don't know if I'll be able to survive. After I pay for support and all the loans except the mortgage I'll have like 780 for rent, utils, gas and food. It looks like I'll be getting the kids from 6:00 - 9:30 on tues and thurs, every other weekend and 2 months out of the summer. The summer months will be hard financally....

Anyway, I'm done with todays book. Now, if there is anyone out there that will tell me everything will be alright I'd appreciate it. With the amount of money I'll have left each month prospects for a decent future aren't too bright. I don't see a way I'll ever be able to go back to school. I'm pretty close to being topped out in my current job(Job market is very small where I'm at). I can't/won't move very far from my children... Just a lot of bad. I don't even know how/if I'll be able to upgrade to a 2br/3br in the next cpl years. I can't raise two kids in 1br and it won't be long before they need thier own space. Heck, I don't even have any funiture or cooking utils. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> And the emotional turmoil is getting to me bad again... Is there a bottom to the quicksand?

Becoming, I have questions for you.

First off, what exactly are you doing to PROVE to your wife that you've ended your affairs and can completely be relied-upon?

Have you given her your e-mail passwords? Does she know how to check your cell phone usage and messages? Does she know how to access your computer and review everything on it? Have you installed spyware on your computer and given her access to EVERYTHING that's there? Does she know how you spend every single dollar?

And secondly, how do you know that she's not having an affair as well?