<small>[ February 25, 2004, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: heavenlee30 ]</small>

Oh, Heavenlee, I am so sorry you are going through this. Do not take what he says to heart. He is blaming you for his weakness. How can he honestly expect you to let him come home and continue to see the OW???? You did the right thing. Be strong, stand firm. I don't know much about plan B, but perhaps send out a post to Melody, WAT, and Mthrrhbrrd. They give such wonderful advice, as do so many others here. Read the example letters of Plan B to help you with yours. You haven't been in plan A long, but what else were you to do? I think you did the right thing. Your letter was calm and gentle, you expressed your love. He is in such a fog. He needs to be miserable right now to come out of it. Let him be thrown into this with OW and he will see. I am by no means an expert, please others give advice.

I am praying for you.

Isaiah 40 : 29, 31 He gives power to those who are tired and worn out; He offers strength to the weak....Those who wait on the Lord will find new strength. They will fly high on wings like eagles. They will run and not grow weary. They will walk and not faint.

Love, nid

heavenlee-

NO NO. Not time for Plan B yet. Stay in Plan A. Do not be too concerned about his email. Wait for the next one, and then do not be too concerned about that one.

He is floundering now. Stay with the MB program. He will be back soon.

You need to stick to your guns...and for the record you have not lost him at this point. All you have done is make him face reality...and reality is you cannot be married and have a girlfriend/boyfriend one the side. Heck you can't even date in many cases and have someone else on the side.

You have fair boundaries and you have done so with dignity and with no love busting.

Hang in there.

Yes, this is to be expected. My H blamed me for making him miserable too. Whether you choose to stay in Plan A or move to Plan B please read Bramblerose's Plan A post -- hopefully it will help you with the job ahead of you.

I am not an expert in Plan B or when to move to it. But it seems to me your letter was a pre-plan B letter, the last attempt before moving to plan B. IMO As long as he gets what he needs from the two of you he has no reason to start looking at what he is going to loose, and how OW is not going to fulfill the hole inside himself.

your in my thoughts ... and as Stunned said "stick to your guns" make those boundaries absolute, not wishy washy.

I'm sorry you are going through this.

way2

<small>[ February 18, 2004, 11:23 PM: Message edited by: way2 ]</small>

THANKS THANKS THANKS and HUGGS....

Oh I felt so bad... I was feeling so guilty and confused. I was am I just going to push him away forever. If I loved him more would I let him have what he wants... I was so confused... I finally realized.... I don't let my children have anything they want... and I love them too. Loving someone doesn't mean you give them everything they want... it means you give them everything they deserve. I so hope you all are right.... but if not I know that I am now seeing what a strong and resourceful person I am... and that makes me feel better.... Huggs to all.

Nid we definitely need to chat... I have given you my email it's heavenlee30@yahoo.com. Send me an email there with phone number or your email and I'll send you mine. Maybe we can talk each other through this ordeal. We are so in the same boat... Huggs

HL30, Your husband is very confused to say the least. Wayward spouses will distort reality any many ways to justify their behavior.

I will not let my WW back home until she has real NC with the OM. Not that she is interested in coming home, she wants OM at this point in time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I noticed that twice he commented that you are the winner. How immature he is acting.

I hope you are right <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ February 19, 2004, 07:20 AM: Message edited by: heavenlee30 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> will not let my WW back home until she has real NC with the OM. Not that she is interested in coming home, she wants OM at this point in time. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How long has it been Justin? Are you in plan A or plan B? How long has it been for you?

I'm crazy today. I feel so depressed. My WH didn't stop emailing me as he say which I suppose is good. But all of his emails are about how I am destroying our children's lives and how I am the only one who doesn't want him home and how I am just being selfish and can't put my needs and wants about what's best for the kids. I want him back home so desperately... I forward him a few articles from the MB site today... the Unfaithful Husband letters etc... I also found some other good articles about affairs which I emailed him. I have either responded to all of his emails with articles or with my previous email listed her. I asked him if this were 20 years later and his daughter were in this situation what advice would he give to her? His response was what he wants (what a shock). I told him how important the NC was for me... and he says he just can't live that way. I dont' know what to do... part of me wants him back so badly, I want to say hell with the NC just come back and we'll fix it while you are home. I mean it would be much easier for me to do plan A if he were here.... wouldn't it?

If I give into his cake-eating now though, he will never give up his OW b/c he won't ever be forced to... but then most of those EA die out anyway... how do I know that if I go ahead and let him back in that it won't die and we will have a great marriage... and the NC won't matter.

I mean here's the other kicker, we aren't legally seperated or divorced or anything. Legally, because I checked with police.... unless I have a court order he can move back in anytime he wants. He doesn't have to do NC letter or anything else... and he knows that. He's threatened to do that several times, so he knows he can come home and can do nothing about it. So why doesn't he just do it? If he wants to come home without those conditions and he doesn't give a fart about me why not just move back in here without my conditions or blessings. He doesn't need them.

I am sorry to be so windy... I am just feeling so lost and alone today. I want him home. I miss his smell on my sheets, I miss his snoring, I miss his morning breath. I miss him so desperately... my kids miss him tucking them in... they miss their dad... I miss their dad... it's so hard to be here without him. Sometimes, I just think it would be easier to just give in.

Thanks all... sorry I needed to get that all out... phew I feel better... well sorta. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Hey Heavenlee, I'm going to send you my number. We can talk tonight, preferable after the kiddos are asleep. I can't sleep much these days anyway, so I'll be up late. How about you?

I know how badly you miss him and just want to cave. I do too. But we have to be strong. Throw them totally into their A and hopefully they will come out of the fog. I'm still at the teetering edge of exposing him to the league, but I'm afraid in doing so I will lose him for good. Who have you exposed to?

I know this really stinks, Heavenlee. And it's made even harder by him continuing to tell you how it's all your fault, even though you know in your heart that isn't true.

You said part of the reason it's so hard is because you know most of these affairs die out on their own, and you're afraid of throwing away your marriage by not giving in to him on this, when it might not matter because it will probably go away on its own. Greatly paraphrased, of course, but that's the gist of it, right?

But the thing is - you aren't doing Plan A to take care of this one affair. You're doing Plan A to fix your marriage. The affair is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself. If you give in on this, and don't keep your boundaries, there's a good chance you will be one of those women who live the rest of their lives with a man who continues to cheat now and again. Maybe not, but I'd guess the chances are good. If that's something you can live with, that's up to you. But from everything you've said, it doesn't sound like it is something you can live with.

And you aren't just doing it because of affairs either. Even if he never had another affair, without addressing the issues, your marriage will continue to be at risk, and at the very least, you'll both be disappointed in your marriage. This is a sign that things need fixed. If he wasn't in the fog, he'd probably see that too. It's like a small child with a broken bone that needs set. They know it hurts, they know they want it fixed. But they don't want to be hurt even more, so they don't want to let the doctor touch the arm to put it back in place. Greater pain at first - but necessary if healing is ever going to happen.

I don't have any other advice to give though. So far, it looks like you are doing what needs done. Just stay strong.

And I do have an appeal - does anyone out there have a lighthouse they can give this man? Sounds like he desperately needs it.

Heavenleed30.

Let me tell you a bit more of my story. A few months before WW left me I confronted her about the A. I showed her e-mails I had found in which she told OM how she loved him, and describe a night they spent together. It was pretty steamy stuff. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

She told me she would leave me because she didn't want to hurt me. Of course the harm had already been done and leaving me would cause more harm. In any event, I caved and told her I would not insist on NC if she would stay and promise to somehow work things out in our marriage.

Things were better for about two or three weeks. Then she started pulling away from me. She became less affectionate. Sex became more of a physical outlet than an emotional romantic encounter. I tried to talk with her about our marriage but she would not say much much. One night I overheard her on the phone talking to OM (Yes, she actually got to the point where she called the SOB from our house phone while I was at home!) She told him that this year would be an even better year for their relationship. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Two months later she told me that God wanted her and OM together and that she was leaving. A few weeks later she left. She now has an apartment in a nearby city and I know that OM has visited her and will probably visit her frequently. Somehow I don't think he is sleeping on the couch. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Caving did absolutely nothing good for our marriage. She had no intention of giving up the OM. She left so that she can be more free to see the OM.

Having caved myself, I can't critisize you if you do. I had to learn the hard way and it certainly was a lesson that got pounded (pun intended) into me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

My advice: Marriage does not allow for affairs, boyfriend, girlfriends, etc. You are right to insist on NC. You husband like my WW will say or do anything to justify the affair. They have actually convinced themselves that the A is not only acceptable but the RIGHT thing to do. Dr. H talks about this in SAA. They are very crazy and in the fog. They will distort reality to justify the affair. And they really believe the distortion!!

Get support. You cannot fight this alone. I found a divorce/separated group at a local church that has been a lifesaver. There is no substitute for the support of human beings who are physically there with you. This site is great but is NOT a substitute for flesh and blood people. Get friends to help you and will sympathize with you when you need to vent.

I will keep you in my prayers.

Heavenlee30,

Another thought. Allow yourself to get angry. Not a rage. Don't take it out on the kids. Get angry at him and tell a friend why you are so angry.

I found that anger really helped clear the mind and it actually took away some of the pain.

Here is a quote from a daily e-mail I get for people who are divorced (which I am NOT at this time):

"Now, you aren't sure which parts of your married life were real and which parts were only illusions. You are not wrong to feel anger. Justified anger can be a good and necessary response."

Good idea Justin. I know for me, it was e-mails. There were several e-mails that I wrote and really, really let him have it - and then deleted them instead of sending them. Or sent them to a friend, saying "I just had to say this to someone, and better you than him!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Unfortunately, I've had a few I didn't manage to refrain from sending, but those were after it was too late for us, and there was no turning the situation around. That still doesn't excuse actually sending them though - most of them I regret (though I have to admit, there were a few that I thought he really needed to "hear.")

heavenlee30,

I don't have answers because I'm struggling with the same thing myself, but I am VERY SLOWLY learning one thing:

I found out about the P/A in 11/03. I caved immediately (before really knowing much about MB) because I knew from reading that a lot of affairs die on their own, and I was afraid of pushing things and losing him.

I know now that all that did was allow him to get in much deeper and now we're in an even bigger mess than we were. By thinking I was allowing him space to make his choice, all I did was make him stay out more and more and spend more time with OW, to the point that even when we were technicially still residing in the same house, he only spent about one night per week there.

I am not in Plan B yet (much to everyone's dismay) but I AM starting to learn how to set a few boundaries, and it is making me feel better and stronger.

So in a nutshell, if you can--don't make my mistake and let it go on and on. You were so right in your letter--not only is it not fair to you, but it sends the wrong message to the kids. I was too blind to see that.

LL

Heavenlee,

i have just read what's been going on in my absence. i'm so sorry for the pain you feel. Your WH does not know what he's saying, trust me I have heard some of the same during the las 4 months. If you continue to stick to your guns it will work out. He will either return to you solely or you will become a stronger person ready to face the world without him.

Your writing and letters show just how much you have grown in the past few days. You have gained a lot of knowledge from posting and listening. Be strong and remember that the Lord is with you always.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Heavenlee,

I don't mean to intrude I know that you left your email adress for nid, But I feel that we have a lot to share. If you don't mind may I please email you also.

Or If anyone else out there can help me with my WH's A my background is on the Why wont my H come Home topic <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I need answers to some questions or at least a better understanding of my situation.

I took a nap after my last post. I do feel better, sometimes it's really hard to think clearly on 2 hours sleep and food deprivation huh? Bet lots of you can relate to that...

Thanks so much for your support and your kind words, everyone.. mucho grande huggs.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey Heavenlee, I'm going to send you my number. We can talk tonight, preferable after the kiddos are asleep. I can't sleep much these days anyway, so I'll be up late. How about you?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No I don't sleep much either... and that sounds great. I'll look forward to hearing from you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But the thing is - you aren't doing Plan A to take care of this one affair. You're doing Plan A to fix your marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are right penguin... Thanks for the redirection and pointing me back to my goals.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And I do have an appeal - does anyone out there have a lighthouse they can give this man? Sounds like he desperately needs it.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL I think he needs a good swift Kick in the can, too... know any good mob type guys willing to break a leg or two? LOL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Having caved myself, I can't critisize you if you do. I had to learn the hard way and it certainly was a lesson that got pounded (pun intended) into me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So in a nutshell, if you can--don't make my mistake and let it go on and on. You were so right in your letter--not only is it not fair to you, but it sends the wrong message to the kids. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks Justin and LL for sharing your stories and allowing me to learn from you. I will try that support and I am definitely praying for you, too.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He will either return to you solely or you will become a stronger person ready to face the world without him.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are right JT thanks for reminding me.

All WS get pissy when reality bites.

Here's a handy-dandy phrase:

"nevertheless"

If he argues that you're a big old meanie because he can't live with you and date his mistress ....

You can say"Nevertheless, I cannot allow that sort of behavior in our children's home."

Keep your language simple and clear and (pretty much) one note.

The fog makes them idiots for awhile, but it's not permanent.

Hang in there.

This pain and loss your H feels is GOOD FOR HIM in the long run.

Pep