Absolutely JT...

Well I decided that being on Plan A, I had to show him that I didn't want him to not be here, that isn't what I want at all. So I thought and thought and after some redirection from my MB friends I came up with my solution.

He was feeling pretty foggy today, after my email last night. He wants to believe that I don't want him home, my only goal was the house and his money (yeah right LOL)... well I also decided that as miserable as he was he was going to go somewhere or to someone for comfort... might as well be me... and since I am still in plan A, I did the following.

I sent him a yahoo greeting which was an invitation YOUR PRESENCE IS REQUESTED...
in our home tonite for one fabulous cook out and quiet dinner. With the quiet dinner comes quiet conversation, love, and compassion. You will also be entitled to be adored by your beautiful wife and fantastic children, for one evening without guilt, sorrow, or sadness. You will also be eligible for winning the doorprize which could include your choice of a head massage, back rub, or cuddling. But wait by simply presenting yourself to OUR HOME, you will see what a wonderful wife, kids, and home you have. Don't forget the added bonus of doing HW, watching a movie, or talking with your lovely wife. All this can be yours and so much more... if you pick up the phone now... our operators are standing by to take your call.


Well he was going to run to her for comfort which all the while she could tell him how I don't understand him and how awful I am... or I could show him I still want him in our home... this isn't about her it's about our marriage.... thanks for that insight too MB friends.

AND guess what... he'll be over after work tonite... well I'm going to run to the store and grab something to grill... maybe some steaks... it's like 50 here today so it will be good... THANKS again... I will update you all later... and check in... MUCHO HUGGOS!!!

Only words said to me tonite.... "I hope your books are right."

He's so so so sad... I hurt to see him hurting like this. I want so badly to hold him and help him... he won't let me. The fog is so dense...

What do you mean Heaven, did he come over? What happened?

I came upstairs (under pretence of using the RR) I just had to post that. He was walking around the house tonight, acting like someone who's just lost everything. He was looking at every detail. I kept playing the song Desperado by the Eagles (you know your pain and hunger are driving you home), he just would start crying. He drank 2 beers, he never drinks beers, in fact they prolly sucked b/c they been in the fridge since our last summer cook out. He didn't say anything to me all night but that, "I hope your books are right." I have no clue or idea what that means. He told me thanks for dinner and just left. He just kept walking around the house and acted like he was just giving it up... he could hardly hold back the tears all night. I asked him to let me in... to let me be his friend. I told him I was here for him and I told him the only way we all win is for you to come home.

It was a sad night... he was very mopey. But we watched a dvd (thankfully that took some of the silence and akwardness out of the night), it was quiet, the steaks were yummy... he barely ate a thing... highly unlike him, since I made all his favorites tonite... even his favorite dessert which he had none of... but that's okay. Does it mean the fog is lifting or just blinding him more. I have no clue... I know he's feeling it though... he's in such pain. I wanted to say okay come home come home... but I stuck to my ground... and screamed into my pillow when he left.... I am good but it's so hard to watch someone you love in that state of torment. Of course, he's not really considered that with me... especially early on after dday when I was one step from a total catatonic state. I know that was the fog...he is unable to see my pain... but I see his and feel it with every bone in my body and every ounce of my soul. This is so hard... but I am going to stick to plan A for now.

Nid.... I haven't gotten your email yet?!!?

JT... please do email me I'd love to hear from you....

Heaven, I sent it earlier today. Check again.

I'm so sorry about your evening. Stick to plan A, you're doing good.

Is this the fog lifting maybe?

After tonite we talked on the phone. I asked him if he loved me and he said yes, he really loved me. I asked if he knew how much I loved him and he said, I don't know. I asked him if I would be willing to stick this through and be willing to fix our marriage and if I would have read 17 zillion books and articles and worked so hard to save my marriage if I didn't think he was worth it.

He told me later you'll have your answer about whether I'm coming home or not tomorrow and then you can get on with your life. I said I sure hope she's worth it... I hope that she is everything you want and she makes you as happy as you deserve to be... I hope you're sure she's worth it... and he said, I'm not.

Is that the fog lifting just a bit?

He's now not sure she's worth it? Before she was da' bomb... best thing since sliced bread.... guess that's a little better than being compared to sliced bread.

And so I said... but the ax swings both ways doesn't it... you're not sure I'm worth it either do you?

he sat silent.... and I just said you use to think I was worth it... and interestingly enough when we met you didn't doubt it and were never unsure about it... were you? Again silence and then he said... well I use to be sure of a lot of things... back to the fog?

But maybe it's letting up some... I don't know... I just don't know... I hope so..

<small>[ February 20, 2004, 06:37 AM: Message edited by: heavenlee30 ]</small>

Ever get up in the morning and think why bother?

I am just feeling very needy this morning. I am sure it will get better later. I think the nights and mornings are the hardest because it's hard to go to bed and wake up w/o him next to me. That's the hard part.

I talked to my kids this morning... both of them slept in my bed last night, and we woke up and cuddled this morning... that was nice. They are such terrific kids.

I asked them if they wanted to talk... After talking I see their pain is like mine in so many ways. They are floundering too!!! They use to be absolutely sure their dad would come home... now both of them say, "I don't know". It's sad... I wish he could see what our kids are going through. All I can do is be honest and try to answer their questions with honesty, love, and compassion. I want to be positive for them... but at this point, "I don't know either."

Wish I could wave a magic wand over this whole situation for them...

WH sent me this email.


She told me to go back home. She told me she knows I couldnt be happy and that I should go back home.


Is this a ploy? what's up?

So he sent me that email and I said tell me how you feel about that... and he just said like what I think and feels matters....

Is this a ploy on her part? Did she see the fog loosening like I did and this is her response. What should I say or do?

I can't count on that as NC right? HELP please I am so lost at this moment... because it's not at all what I expected.

BS typically focus way to much on what their ws is or isn't doing, thinking, feeling, etc. Everything you need to do is right here on MB, and in the books you have read. Just do the stuff YOU need to do, the rest will sort itself out one way or another. As for the email, it is a ploy of sorts, serves no purpose but to keep you guessing, hopeing, etc. He needs to be talking about HIMSELF, not you, not mistress, but what is going on in him.....a ws coming back cause the op dumped them is not a good thing, better than nothing but not a good thing....still has to be lots of work done to see if the ws is worthy. In any event, nothing for you to do, just wait, each time he asks to come home (or forces himself in), just reiterate the conditions to hum....following the MB rules of protection, counselling, identifying meeting EN's, and reducing LB's....not that complicated. How well he will do these things (and you too) is how good (or bad) the marriage will be.

One can be symathetic about his um... sadness I guess (but from what you have written he is not worth a whole lot of compassion at all, is major manipulator)...and then just remind him there are other choices, and alternatives available, one being the MB plan...he is a big boy, I am sure he understands his choices.

<small>[ February 20, 2004, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: sufdb ]</small>

Well my WH is talking about coming home... but he says he wants to just come home and just forget everything. He wants no pressure no stress no working towards a "perfect marriage" as he calls it. He wants to come home and hit the restart button and see what happens. He still won't send the NC to her... and he says that her son will play soccer on his team... which means that the NC letter is even more important to me... because I have to know she understands he's OFF LIMITS and that he's committed to his family. Does any of this make sense... now that he says he wants to come home... I am not sure... I am scared... I was so sure... now I'm scared to death.

Is that part of it? Am I suppose to feel that way? Help

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by heavenlee30:
<strong> Well my WH is talking about coming home... but he says he wants to just come home and just forget everything. He wants no pressure no stress no working towards a "perfect marriage" as he calls it. He wants to come home and hit the restart button and see what happens. He still won't send the NC to her... and he says that her son will play soccer on his team... which means that the NC letter is even more important to me... because I have to know she understands he's OFF LIMITS and that he's committed to his family. Does any of this make sense... now that he says he wants to come home... I am not sure... I am scared... I was so sure... now I'm scared to death.

Is that part of it? Am I suppose to feel that way? Help </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I added a little more to the other one. All that is happening is he is playing you. He is still trying to dictate conditions...do not let him, this is your opportunity to fix the marriage....if you don't take it, he will just wander off again, restarting the same tape just insures that. Further I think this is about his kids, and not you....when the kids are grown, he is far more likely to leave again, if he doesn't work with you to fix this now. Tell him none of this is negotiable, NC letter, find another soccer team as well if necessary, mandatory counselling, and working on the MB stuff....if he won't do this, he is not serious, he is just using you to get what he wants....a marriage of convienience until he moves on somewhere else....plus, if you cave in, you have just proven you are a doormat and he will never take you seriously.....the marriage will be what he wants, and you will have to take it or leave it.....stick to your guns.

It's very funny you should say that... because that's exactly what he told me...

Seems ironic Thanks for the post... I am going to try to stick this out.

<small>[ February 25, 2004, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: heavenlee30 ]</small>

Ok, let me get this straight. He has said he wants to come home, wants no pressure to "work" on marriage, which means I assume counseling is out, and refuses to do a NC letter.

And you would consider this because it's different from before.....how? It isn't! Nothing has changed, he's repeating his demand for you to give up your boundaries, no change on his part, and you're thinking about it because..... it's been a few days more without him at home.

Nothing has changed, he's still as foggy as ever. As I see it, the only thing that you might consider has changed is that he's no longer saying he wants to come home to make up his mind. He's still thinking it, I'm sure; he has just quit saying it with the hopes that you'll see this as different this time and give in so he can continue to eat cake!

Boundaries won't work overnight, especially if they haven't been there before. And he's going to keep trying harder and harder to get you to remove the boundaries, ESPECIALLY if they haven't been there before. If you hold your ground, I think you can expect there to be quite a while longer of him trying to wear you down on it before he decides it won't work.

Mine said the same thing, "Take it or leave it, this is your last chance." Hohoho. Talk about fog talk! As you know, he is still not home, and won't be until he is ready to commit.

WOW...

that was so insightful....

You are right... it isn't any different... it's just a different approach on his part. Can't get through the front door let me try the back sorta thing...

Wow I never looked at it that way....

TY ever so much

Is Orchid around this morning?

This -

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by heavenlee30:
<strong> WH sent me this email.
She told me to go back home. She told me she knows I couldnt be happy and that I should go back home.

Is this a ploy? what's up? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">- reminded me SO MUCH of her post on the Foggy WS thread recently. She described a phone call she received from her then-WS, asking to come home. She could hear OW in background, telling her she HAD to take him back, he wasn't going to stay there any longer, something to that effect...?

He wasn't ready to commit, and I don't think yours is either. He might be ripe for Plan B soon, though.

<small>[ February 25, 2004, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: heavenlee30 ]</small>

He keeps talking about the kids, and rarely about you, IMO it is obvious what is motivating him, the natural concern about raising his kids....that is not the basis for a successful marriage. I suspect if you did not have children he would be long gone. That doesn't mean you cannot potentially be happy together, that is a complex issue....what it means is he wants his kids, will make some adjustments to get them, but is unwilling to work on the marriage itself. I do think it was questionable to involve an 8 and 12 yo in the way you did, it is impossible for them to have anything useful to say, and most likely simply picked up on your cues, they do not have the experience or maturity to even understand what you were really talking about. This can't be about their opinions, this is your marriage, and has to be about you....either way you will both remain the parents, that doesn't change. They benefit from a healthy marital role model, whether that be as a restored marriage, or one ended because it couldn't be healthy, either example teaches them things they need to learn....what is not good, is their being pulled into the conflict by either of you. I understand the urge to do so, but you shouldn't have, they cannot make any decisions for you....you must make them, and they must be made on the merits of the relationship with your H, not what the kids want.

You are doing the right thing by setting boundaries and sticking to them. Letting him home on his terms would be disaster for all of you.

You are showing your kids just the right example...you're showing them that you love their daddy, that you take your vows seriously, that you love him for better or worse...but you won't accept him back while he's involved in an A.

As for your H...he is acting just like a spoiled brat! So treating him kindly but firmly is what I would recommend you continue to do...same as you would for your kids who wanted you to let them do something bad or dangerous.

Like a child...he will continue to try and wear you down...DO NOT LET HIM!!!

If he keeps it up much longer you are probably going to need to go to Plan B...that might wake him up to the danger!