Hi Heavenlee,

I know that I've been away for a couple of days but I have beeen reading up on what's been going on. I do not post much because I never seem to get a response so I've been reading what's going on with you since its funny our life situations seem so parallel.

I am glad that you have decided to work on you. through these posts I have decided it is time for me to do the same. We have been apart for 4 months now but I think the reason we have not gotten any further is because i always focus on him and the fact that he is not home. I think he likes the attention on him,but i am not getting any great results.

I too have stopped LB but it still hurts to see him come and go. My S is 2 and he now realizes that his daddy does not come home.

I think that I'll make some me time. I joined the gym today on my lunch break it has daycare so I can go on a daily basis. I feel pretty good about reading the posts I only pray that no one feels the pain that I feel.

I may have caused this whole thing by LB'ing. I hope that everthing goes well for you and I am praying for you constantly because i lost my mom to cancer 2 years ago, and I know what it's like to go through that alone.

Speedy recovery!!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

listening out for you!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi, thought I would post this excerpt from Dr. Harley's information on what to do when A doesn't end, when WS is a cake eater...

So, to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B.

Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B.

Since plan B (and plan A, for that matter), is extremely stressful for the betrayed spouse, I usually recommend that he or she ask a physician to prescribe anti-depressant medication to be taken throughout the crisis. This not only greatly reduces the suffering of the betrayed spouse, but it also helps keep a clear head at a time when patience and wise decisions are crucial. Anti-depressant medication does not numb the betrayed spouse to the crisis, it actually helps raise him or her above emotional reactions that would otherwise prevent clear-headed thinking. Why suffer and and make poor choices when anti-depressant medication can help ease your pain and improve your concentration in this time of unprecedented crisis?

Thought it seemed pertinent to where both you and NID are...unfortunately he doesn't offer any concrete time frames for Plan A before Plan B. It mostly seems determined on how fast the cake eating is depleting your LB...need to make the move prior to that.

You should also consider how much longer he can go this way before it would become even harder to forgive or respect him again if he comes home.

You also should have a plan drafted and ready to review (POJA) with him on..when he cracks...cause he sure seems close to cracking. Plan would include things like NC, IC, MC, agreement on MB principles, etc.

JT... my email is heavenlee30@yahoo.com if you want to chat. I am sorry you have the same problems. It's very painful.

Thanks forever for the post... I think my WH is very quickly erroding the fabric of our relationship. He says his affair is over and he isn't seeing her or having contact with her. Yet, he won't give me even simple reassurances that it is... I don't know how to trust him. I sent him the information about NC and he says he can't live like that, he says he doesn't want the same thing from our marriage, and he doesn't want MC. But he says he wants to come home... I don't get it... this morning he tells me he is going to divorce me and then less than 2 hours later he sends me an email saying he's coming home to me and the kids. He tells me that I'm so emotional that I need to seek professional help, but I'm on A/D, I'm reading to understand my feelings, and I'm in IC. I don't know what more I can do to seek professional help... I feel like I'm doing what I can do. I've stood by him throughout his angry outbursts, his not being there for my cancer treatment, his constant denial and pain. I've stood by him because I know that I want back the person I married. The person that would do anything to keep from hurting me, the person who would be there for me when I was sick, the person who would protect me. He says that person doesn't exist... he never did. Maybe, I didn't marry that person... maybe I'm just in some fantasyland and he isn't at all that person. I know I don't want to be married to the person he is now.... this person hurts me, doesn't mind watching me suffer, and just puts his needs above everyone elses. That's not who I want to married to... I'm trying to convince myself he's confused and he deep down he isn't that person... but it becomes harder and harder to convince myself of that. I can't continue this craziness.... it's destroying my family. I am going to start taking care of myself... and he'll either have to figure it out by himself or he won't... either way I've got to start healing myself... I can't heal him... only he can do that.

I think I'm going to have to start thinking very seriously about plan B... plan A is just too painful to bare anymore. He doesn't want to make the same committments he made to me 15 years ago... and this time figure out together through MC, MB, NC, and IC how to get what we both deserve.

Does anyone think what I'm asking is unreasonable? Is that a selfish demand?

JT... my email is heavenlee30@yahoo.com if you want to chat. I am sorry you have the same problems. It's very painful.

Thanks forever for the post... I think my WH is very quickly erroding the fabric of our relationship. He says his affair is over and he isn't seeing her or having contact with her. Yet, he won't give me even simple reassurances that it is... I don't know how to trust him. I sent him the information about NC and he says he can't live like that, he says he doesn't want the same thing from our marriage, and he doesn't want MC. But he says he wants to come home... I don't get it... this morning he tells me he is going to divorce me and then less than 2 hours later he sends me an email saying he's coming home to me and the kids. He tells me that I'm so emotional that I need to seek professional help, but I'm on A/D, I'm reading to understand my feelings, and I'm in IC. I don't know what more I can do to seek professional help... I feel like I'm doing what I can do. I've stood by him throughout his angry outbursts, his not being there for my cancer treatment, his constant denial and pain. I've stood by him because I know that I want back the person I married. The person that would do anything to keep from hurting me, the person who would be there for me when I was sick, the person who would protect me. He says that person doesn't exist... he never did. Maybe, I didn't marry that person... maybe I'm just in some fantasyland and he isn't at all that person. I know I don't want to be married to the person he is now.... this person hurts me, doesn't mind watching me suffer, and just puts his needs above everyone elses. That's not who I want to married to... I'm trying to convince myself he's confused and he deep down he isn't that person... but it becomes harder and harder to convince myself of that. I can't continue this craziness.... it's destroying my family. I am going to start taking care of myself... and he'll either have to figure it out by himself or he won't... either way I've got to start healing myself... I can't heal him... only he can do that.

I think I'm going to have to start thinking very seriously about plan B... plan A is just too painful to bare anymore. He doesn't want to make the same committments he made to me 15 years ago... and this time figure out together through MC, MB, NC, and IC how to get what we both deserve.

Does anyone think what I'm asking is unreasonable? Is that a selfish demand?

I will be coming to pick D up for soccer because I told her I would be taking her yesterday. I am trying to help you and give you what you need but you need everything right now. We agreed I would come home then you went off because it wasnt soon enough. I dont know what to do. Everytime I try to tell you how I feel and that I am willing to try and make it work then you go off on me about all I have done to you again and again and again. Why cant it just be like it was Saturday before you got pissed off or why couldnt it be Sunday like it was before you jumped to conclusions. Everytime I think you want me to come back I just feel like you are just wanting me to come back to get even with me.

I am sorry for what I did. I am sorry for hurting you and all the other people who got hurt. I guess my problem here is that I want to share the blame for what happened and you seem to want to put it all on me. That no matter what you did what I did was worse. I do think that we both want different things out of our marriage but I dont think that is bad and you do. I am different than you are and we see things different and I dont see that as a bad thing. You obviously do. I will gove you all the affection and all the other stuff that I can but I am not like you and there are times I dont want to do that. I just need to be left alone. I want this to work out for all of us. But you have to understand that you may be getting better but you are still doing the same things.

You are still hurting and blaming me for it. The only difference now is that you are using different things instead of telling me you are going to leave me. You still get pissed and run away and make me guess at what I have done. Then you come at me with both barrels with all the crying and blame and guilt. I cant do that. I am sorry you dont understand that. I am trying I really am trying. You are such a wonderful person to be around when you arent feeling sorry for yourself and blaming me and telling me all I did to you. I have had a great time the last three weeks for the most part. I have had my moments as well.

You want what you want and you want it right away and what you cant seem to realize is that Although you may be able to just change your feelings and thoughts and all that like the flip of a light switch I cant. We see things so differently. You assume that because I dont talk about it that I am not sorry and dont think about what you have gone through. Well I do I just dont talk about all of it I think about it. What happened to the light bulb that went off last night? Talking about all of it is how you handle and deal, holding it in and thinking about it is how I handle and deal.

I dont want or need the world to know what my problems are. I solve problems for a living. I have tried to be cautious and realist about this deal and have worked very hard not to make promises I cant keep. That doesnt mean I am not going to try but I dont want to make promises and gurantees that there are no gurantess for. I can promise I will do the best I am capable of. Do I know if that will be good enough for you? No I dont but thats what I can promise. I can promise to do my best. You have to decide it that is good enough or not. I am not going to put rose colored glasses on and promise you the world. I dont think you can do that either even if you think you can.

One of my fears is that I am going to come back and work at it the best that I can and it still wont be good enough for you. You talk about how things used to be. Things are never going to be the way they used to be. Its not going to be some, I think you called it stage one relationship. It will be about more than either one of us. It will be about S and D and us and the house and all the other things happening in our lifes. As I said you are going to have to decide if that is good enough for you or not.

Call the Harley's for an appointment.

This is a very delicate situation and our well-meaning but amateur advice could tip things the wrong way.

I strongly urge you to call the Harley's for counseling.

This board is not enough right now.

Hang the expense .... your marriage is on the line.

Pep

Thanks Pep...

I really really really wish I could... I just can't afford it this minute. I want to so badly... but I haven't even got the money to go to the grocery, luckily I have a freezer full of those frozen dinners I grab when they are on sale. Nothing like a week's worth of tv dinners, But there is absolutely no way I can afford to do that at this moment.

I know there are still some things in that letter that concern me... he still thinks that my being upset is blaming him. I know that's the guilt but I also know that as I stated I did go off the other day emotionally. I was reading that men from mars... book the other night... and my H is always thinking I am blaming him before I ever even finish my thought. I found out that's because as females we typically don't plan out words before we say them... we typically kind of think as we go... while men think internally, woman think externally. That was a real lightbulb moment for me... because I realized he constantly sees me as blaming him when I speak because I always think as I go. I am going to try to be more mindful of that.

I see a lot of hope in that letter from my H....It's the first time since all of this started he's saying he wants to work on our marriage. I think the letter is definitely a step in the right direction for us...

What do you think? Am I placing more hope in this letter than it deserves?

Originally posted by heavenlee30:
I will be coming to pick D up for soccer because I told her I would be taking her yesterday.

Good, keeping promises.

I am trying to help you and give you what you need but you need everything right now.

Disrespectful remark, but one that is easily overlooked.

We agreed I would come home then you went off because it wasnt soon enough. I dont know what to do.

He's frustrated because you give him mixed messages. At least that's how this appears.

Everytime I try to tell you how I feel and that I am willing to try and make it work then you go off on me about all I have done to you again and again and again.

Is this true or not?

Why cant it just be like it was Saturday before you got pissed off or why couldnt it be Sunday like it was before you jumped to conclusions.

Why can't you just be nice and not have those disturbing emotions.... is this what he means?

Everytime I think you want me to come back I just feel like you are just wanting me to come back to get even with me.

hahahahaha .... you have told him you love him ...

fog-talk this is....

Let this blow past you



I am sorry for what I did.

Accept his apology. Also tell him you realize that there is something in the marriage that has to be worked on .... as a team with no outside players. (OW)

I am sorry for hurting you and all the other people who got hurt.

Accept his apology.

I guess my problem here is that I want to share the blame for what happened and you seem to want to put it all on me.

I hate the word "blame" .... whenever he uses this word, ask him to say responsibility instead.... less of a disrespectful attitude.

That no matter what you did what I did was worse.

Having an affair is just about the most cruel thing he could do .... outside physical or verbal abuse .... but don't argue this .... he's not ready.

Has your H read any affair recovery books?

Ask him to read SAA.

I do think that we both want different things out of our marriage but I dont think that is bad and you do.

What "different" things does he want? Why not ask him what he wants out of marriage that he thinks is different than your goals?

I am different than you are and we see things different and I dont see that as a bad thing. You obviously do.

Fogggggg blow it off and don't respond. He's trying to define you as unreasonable here, just blow it off in your head, don't take the bait.

I will gove you all the affection and all the other stuff that I can but I am not like you and there are times I dont want to do that. I just need to be left alone.

Ask him to define all alone in terms of hours, days weeks. Ask him to specifically say what these needs are. Ask him if he is off limits in his "alone time" when there is a crisis (like cancer).

I want this to work out for all of us. But you have to understand that you may be getting better but you are still doing the same things.

He may have legitimate complaints, ask him to make a specific list of stuff you are doing that he would like changed.



You are still hurting and blaming me for it.

Yes, you are still hurting. Say so, because it's true. Again, the blame word.... UGH.

The only difference now is that you are using different things instead of telling me you are going to leave me.

If he is refering to your boundaries about the OW needing to be gone forever .... then he should be clear here.

You still get pissed and run away and make me guess at what I have done. Then you come at me with both barrels with all the crying and blame and guilt. I cant do that. I am sorry you dont understand that. I am trying I really am trying.

OK ..... here's your focal point .... he is "trying" .... give him specific something to do .... is he willing to do something very specific like go to therapy?

You are such a wonderful person to be around when you arent feeling sorry for yourself and blaming me and telling me all I did to you.

He's pretty arrogant here , isn't he? Connecting a compliment for you to a complaint about you.

I have had a great time the last three weeks for the most part. I have had my moments as well.

You want what you want and you want it right away and what you cant seem to realize is that Although you may be able to just change your feelings and thoughts and all that like the flip of a light switch I cant. We see things so differently. You assume that because I dont talk about it that I am not sorry and dont think about what you have gone through. Well I do I just dont talk about all of it I think about it. What happened to the light bulb that went off last night? Talking about all of it is how you handle and deal, holding it in and thinking about it is how I handle and deal.

OK .... he needs to work things out in his head and you want to verbalize everything.... not so unusual.

I dont want or need the world to know what my problems are. I solve problems for a living.

Okayyyyyy He's not able to "solve" this problem, and it upsets him. Again, men are problem solvers by nature, not touchy-feely talkers.

Your H is trying to solve your hurt, and he's frustrated.

I have tried to be cautious and realist about this deal and have worked very hard not to make promises I cant keep. That doesnt mean I am not going to try but I dont want to make promises and gurantees that there are no gurantess for. I can promise I will do the best I am capable of. Do I know if that will be good enough for you? No I dont but thats what I can promise. I can promise to do my best. You have to decide it that is good enough or not. I am not going to put rose colored glasses on and promise you the world. I dont think you can do that either even if you think you can.

Are you asking him to be perfect? I doubt it.



One of my fears is that I am going to come back and work at it the best that I can and it still wont be good enough for you.

He wants to "solve" you.

You talk about how things used to be. Things are never going to be the way they used to be.

True

Its not going to be some, I think you called it stage one relationship. It will be about more than either one of us. It will be about S and D and us and the house and all the other things happening in our lifes. As I said you are going to have to decide if that is good enough for you or not.

What is he talking about "stage one" relationship???

Is he saying you are going to have to decide if having him home but taking the chance he may have OW on the side is good enogh?

I can't tell...

Pep

<small>[ February 23, 2004, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Heavenlee...my heart breaks for you!

I think there is some hope in his letter to you. Pep makes good points.

I also think Pep is right that you need to call the Harley's. I think that we paid $175 a session it's set for an hour but he is very generous with his time..ours always went over.

He takes credit cards, sounds like you are very strapped for money but if you have any credit cards with money still in your credit line...use it on this...it is $175 well spent...we were also able to always get on Steve Harley's calendar quickly.

Borrow money, use a credit card do what you have to do..this is a critical time (for you- you may not be able to go on like this) for your H (because he seems close to coming around some). Windows of opportunity are critical...take advantage of this one!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Everytime I try to tell you how I feel and that I am willing to try and make it work then you go off on me about all I have done to you again and again and again.

Is this true or not?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No I haven't LB'd for a long time... what I do tell him are my boundaries again and again and why I have those boundaries and why they are important. I have often just kept sending him my original email... I think he's frustrated that I won't give in on that boundary. It's non negotiable.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why cant it just be like it was Saturday before you got pissed off or why couldnt it be Sunday like it was before you jumped to conclusions.

Why can't you just be nice and not have those disturbing emotions.... is this what he means?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes I think so... as I have posted about the phone incident which happened on Sunday. On Saturday we were getting along great and he was talking about coming home and again I put up the boundaries. I have gotten upset but w/o LB because he says he is going to come home but then I say okay you know what has to be done. Then he sets dates in the future, like I'll move back in a week, or I'll just go home tonight and move back in a few days. I believe that if he truly wants to do the NC and all he should be willing to walk right up here and do it. That this in a few days gives the OW a chance to talk him out of it again. Is that wrong? I guess from that perspective I am maybe LB... maybe this is a selfish demand. I just think if he's ready then let's do it... not wait until next week.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Has your H read any affair recovery books?

Ask him to read SAA.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He said he read the book "After the affair" that was very very early on in this process. He used it to justify all the reasons he should stay with her and why he had his affair. He totally missed the parts about recovery and my feelings I think. I think if he read it again he would see things differently. I have emailed him the link to SAA, and I have also emailed pieces of it, I have also resorted to copying and pasting pieces of it and emailing those parts. I don't know if he's actually read them or not. I will ask him again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What "different" things does he want? Why not ask him what he wants out of marriage that he thinks is different than your goals?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This one is tough because at first he told me he doesn't want a "perfect" marriage. He told me he doesn't want to "work" on the marriage. Now he's seems to be wanting something different again. I'm not sure I'll have to ask.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I want this to work out for all of us. But you have to understand that you may be getting better but you are still doing the same things.

He may have legitimate complaints, ask him to make a specific list of stuff you are doing that he would like changed. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This one was one of my big time mistakes for so long. Whenever we would fight or I'd get upset I would just leave. He says I am good at running away, and I am. I would always just leave the house... and he would call begging me to come back. Now instead of leaving the house I am just going upstairs... I think that is what he means... because Sunday I just went upstairs instead of LBing.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The only difference now is that you are using different things instead of telling me you are going to leave me.

If he is refering to your boundaries about the OW needing to be gone forever .... then he should be clear here. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No this is in reference to my past mistake. Like I said above everytime things got me that angry I would just leave. Sometimes, if they were really bad I'd pack and tell him I was leaving him. If our fight was really really bad, I would tell him I was going to divorce him and see how he liked being without me. This was so wrong. I now realize how I constantly weakened his security in our relationship... he was constantly thinking I'm going to leave him anyway. I have apologized for this... and told him how wrong it is... He says that my boundaries are the same thing... but in fact, they aren't.... the above I did in anger and honestly never really meant it...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK ..... here's your focal point .... he is "trying" .... give him specific something to do .... is he willing to do something very specific like go to therapy?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have tried to get him to go to IC, he has agreed to meet my therapist. Which is a start... he doesn't want to go to therapy or read any books or anything... he's really against this. His parents, my parents, and I have all asked him to do this... right now he just doesn't want to.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What is he talking about "stage one" relationship??? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe he did pay attention to SAA, because this is from another book I read. It talked about the stages of a relationship (stage 1 is the wooing stage... you know the I can't show you I fart stage...) Then Stage two is learning each other... this is the stage that most R stay in... it's kinda the middle stage, it's anywhere from like 2yrs-? Then stage three is a deep devotional love, the one where you are at peace with each other, accepting of differences in each other, and patient... it's the final stage.

That's what he's talking about... I read this book very very early on and had sent him so email regarding it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Is he saying you are going to have to decide if having him home but taking the chance he may have OW on the side is good enogh?

I can't tell... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Me either... he says NC, but her son will still be playing on his team. I have asked for some specific NC provisions since obviously if that is the case NC can't happen. He doesn't want to punish the kid for his mistake.... I don't either and I am unsure about this. I was willing to allow this under these terms... see what you think....


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Regarding OWS playing soccer. I feel that this is continued contact and any contact with her would strictly be about soccer, in fact I would prefer that emails sent to her about soccer practices would be sent in group form as you did previously. I also would prefer that if she has any questions regarding soccer practices that she call *other coach* or myself. I believe that limiting her contact with you will be best for all of us involved. I would honestly prefer that OWS be placed on a different team. I can honestly say that I am concerned about our children's exposure to her since they are aware of your affair. I believe this will make them extremely uncomfortable. I believe S will become increasingly aware of you talking with her at practices and become obsessed and focus on that rather than having fun and playing soccer. I believe D will be placed in a position of feeling unloyal to me, when OW trys to get her to do things as she previously has. I don't think that children deserve to be in that position. I also don't believe in all fairness it is fair for OWS, who is also obviously aware of your affair. He already has anger issues and I am sure that continued exposure to you will make things worse for him as well. However, since I am not his mother I cannot make decisions in his best interest. I also believe that continuing contact with her will make me very uncomfortable, you uncomfortable, and her uncomfortable. Now we have taken something we all enjoy watching our children play soccer and turning it into a painful and uncomfortable situation. In fact, this will also be very uncomfortable for the other parents who are or will become aware of the situation. I feel it's best for all concerned that OWS play soccer on a different team. We know that OWS is a good enough player to go to the travel team and with your input to LEAGUE PRESIDENT I am sure she would make those arrangements. If you insist on him playing soccer please make sure that OW is not to address our children in anyway. She is strictly there as a parent to her son.... all questions regarding soccer should be directed to OTHER COACH or in emergencies myself. She should not contact you via phone. PERIOD. If she must contact you she can do so via email with a cc to me.... if you receive email from her at anytime for any reason you should forward that email to me immediately. This way there is no confusion about the relationship we have. Soccer coach/parent....if you're concern is truly not about punishing Josh for your and her behavior these terms shouldn't make a difference. These terms have no effect OWS being on the team and you continuing to coach him. These terms should be acceptable if you are truly interested in coming back home.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Other than that he states NC, he is still not willing to do a NC letter. He says he agrees to the above, I have been thinking about sending her this agreement.... and trying it from that angle. Maybe preparing something and sending to my WH and asking him to forward it to her... although I have her email... since she use to email my daughter until I put a stop to that.

I am not sure guys what do you think?


Forever..

We recently built a house... so that depleted all of our savings. I don't have any credit cards... and I don't have the credit right now to borrow the money... I am thinking about calling my mother in law and perhaps asking her for the money... she's been pretty supportive... I don't know if she would lend me the money or not.

<small>[ February 23, 2004, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: heavenlee30 ]</small>

Hi Heavenlee. It seems reasonable enough if OWS doesn't go to another team. But just her presence is going to be awkward, not to mention painful for you. I don't know, I'm sort of in the same situation. My H has major obligations to our league and has such a need for people to admire and appreciate him that he is unwilling to step down from the board, at least for now. Maybe he will do it in May. I, afterall, finished the school year after my A. It was excruciatingly painful for my H to know that we saw each other every day. Even though I stopped all contact (no communication), the fact that we were in the same building was unbearable for him.

I just don't know if it will work. When is the season over?

Problem is the season is over... they are getting ready to start a new season end of march... and I guess at this point he's going to be playing on my WH's team... ICK...

<small>[ February 25, 2004, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: heavenlee30 ]</small>

Heavenlee, as much as you hate thinking about that you have to avoid discussing it if it causes you to LB.

When my H found out about my A, he asked all sorts of questions, wanting details. I gave it to him. He didn't like it, but he needed to know. I think he was careful not to respond hatefully, because he knew if he did, I would shut down and not tell him. Maybe you two need to lay down some rules about discussing it and get it all out. Otherwise, your resentment is going to build. I'm not sure if this is the right advice, maybe someone else can comment.

Think of other ways to discuss how you feel, besides sarcasm. That's a big LB. Okay?

Yup you are definitely right Nid....

I just am tired and spent. I'm tired of the unknown... and I'm tired of being drug into this game over and over again....

<small>[ February 25, 2004, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: heavenlee30 ]</small>

Once again today, I'm feeling hopeless. It's been three days now. I have only been in plan A for five weeks, how does someone do it for 6 months? I'll never make it that long. I keep trying to find the reasons this is so hard. Maybe it's the cancer, and that time period just made me so needy and instead of focusing on myself and my needs at all, I was focusing on his and trying to figure out what the hell was wrong. Maybe that drained my emotions and has made my neediness stronger. I have always been able to turn off my emotions so easily, I'm the one at funerals and crisis who everyone turns to for strength. I'm the one who my sister says is unemotional, and now I can't seem to shut them off. Maybe I want this too badly, and can't put it into perspective. Maybe I am selfish and needy and just need to feel him love me again so badly I can't see straight. Maybe I don't love him enough or want it bad enough to do the long haul for six months. I'm just so unsure what I feel right now. For three days, instead of feeling like I wanted to do all those things because I loved him, now I have to keep telling myself to suck it up, suck it up, don't LB now, don't get needy now, don't push him away with your wanty neediness. I just am so confused, is this normal? I just want so badly for him to wrap his arms around me and hold me and kiss me and tell me how truly sorry he is for ever putting me through this. He would say I just want him to kiss my A$$, like always. Maybe I do, in a way.... I guess what I really want is to know he feels my pain and he loves me enough to tell OW that it's over because he deeply loves his wife and family and was wrong and should have never hurt them the way he did. I want him to swallow some pride and come clean and tell me everything so we can move on. I want him to find it himself to know that his heart is with us.

Is this normal? I am so confused and tired.... I can't sleep again, and it's just getting worse each day. I'm taking my A/D's, seeing my therapist, and journaling... but the pain just won't go away, the confusion won't go away, and I'm just starting to feel indifferent. I am feeling like I have to shut off these feelings before he hurts me again... I don't think he'll ever be ready to come home and love me again.

Your pain won't go away for quite some time.

The volume of pain will fluxuate in your brain.

Don't allow your pain to drive your behavior.

Base your decisions on principles and values, not on your pain or anger at the moment.

You are quite a prideful person (I AM the pot saying "hi" to the kettle), and this pride is going to have to be dealt with .... eventually.

Self-work for a change. Quit working on the marriage right now, frankly, neither of you is "ready".

Both need self-examination, not to examin and critique each other .... pointless and counterproductive.

Self-work .... examin your pridefulness. Seek out that which is helpful to your relationships and that which is not.

Pain is a given Suffering is an option.

Pep

<small>[ February 25, 2004, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Thanks Pep...

Seems you always know what to say to get me refocused. You are right suffering is optional... and I don't have to choose to suffer. Thanks... I think I'll go outside for a walk today... the sun is out and it's fairly warm... like 44 or something. The brisk air will help me clear my head and refocus.... Thanks again...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I just want so badly for him to wrap his arms around me and hold me and kiss me and tell me how truly sorry he is for ever putting me through this. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, Heavenlee, I know, I know. Please try to take care of yourself. Running has really helped me. Go to the gym or something, anything to give you some sort of release. And please, please if you need someone to talk to call me!

The difference in my H has come about only now when he sees that I am okay. Remember I asked him if he would mind me and our son going on a vacation for Spring Break? I've also told him I'm starting to go the gym. the past few days he has seen me more confident and self-sufficient. He keeps asking me things like, is it hard for you without me? And things like that. He is starting to realize that I am done groveling. He knows I have put my faith in God and I trust the path that he has chosen for me.

You have to take care of you! Have fun with your kids, enjoy them, let your H see that YOU WILL BE OKAY.

I think this is what is bringing my H out of the fog, my confidence. Yet he still knows I love him and miss him.

What is your status now? Is he talking to you? Is he still coming over? What is happening?