I'm somewhere between Plan A and recovery. My WW had an affair, mostly emotional, between April and DDay around Labor Day. I didn't find MB until October, but had been in a Plan A of my own device until I read about it and came into complete compliance. I could not get WW to agree to a NC letter, however, and there have been 4-5 calls from her to him since early September, the last in early January.

We have been in IC and MC since September. The fog seems to lift, but never go away. I cannot get her to reconnect, it seems, regardless of what I try.

I have talked with OM, and he said he was never aware of how strongly she felt for him. He has agreed to NC since her last call to him in Jan. I know this is a 2x4 issue, but I know she always called him, not the other way around. I can say that if there has been any contact, it has not been his initiation.

Back to my point. I cannot get her to put any effort into reconnection and I am tiring of Plan A. After a few LB's last night (the first in 3 months or better, and no fatal blows!) we went to bed upset.

So today, I get the wild idea to write her an e-mail. I would appreciate your take on what I sent her, so I can anticipate the "fallout". The e-mail is as follows:

"""""I don't know why I am compelled to write to you, because I'm not certain that you even care whether I do or not. I don't know if you take any of what I say to heart, or believe much of what I say.

Last night I had just finished putting away all the clean dishes, wiped down the kitchen completely, finished some details on getting the computer operating, and when you got home I volunteered to help bring the groceries in, which I did.

As soon as you hit the door, you went into a rather rude tirade about my smoking. Hardly a hello, certainly nothing else positive to be said, and went on and on about the smoking issue. All this after saying you'd never do it again, not mention smoking to me.

To say it hit me wrong would be an understatement.

It just seems that no matter what I do, however positive I might think it is, you manage to brush it off with little to-do. But let me do one thing that pisses you off, and look out, all hell breaks loose. Our marriage has been like this for years. Don't piss off the queen bee. Period.

I just felt this "little" incident pretty much sums up where we are today. It is still all about you. Your needs are important, and need to be met. As for me, "who is incapable of feelings", I have none to be met. You say you are going to do this or that, but words are all I get. No action.

If I try to suggest reading to learn how to move forward, I am "throwing the past in your face". If I ask you to be honest with me, I "am splitting you open for all to see". You don't think seeing (MC'er) has merit any more, and is way too expensive. You don't think marriage takes any "work", because if it's meant to be "all those feelings will just happen".

You still defend a lot of your feelings and keep many of them hidden. You have supposedly maintained no contact now for a few weeks, but don't want to talk about it. You twist my efforts to learn and improve into "rehashing the past". You never start a conversation about "US", or how we are, or how am I feeling, or share with me how you are feeling. You jump at the chance to criticize me, while seldom offering positive words to me. Any remorse you might feel for the past few years has been pretty much invisible to me. You have kept me in the position of having to "push" us forward, with little or no support from you. As for sexual fulfillment, you are simply not interested. I'm feeling pretty used right now.

It's like I'm supposed to just never bring up the past, never suggest positive action for the future, and leave you to go on about your daily life without bothering you. As if we didn't have problems in the distant past, the more recent past should be a glaring example of how we need to learn and grow for the future. But you don't want to deal with any feelings associated with that.

I told you all this has raised the bar for what I now expect from marriage. Not addressing any of these issues is not allowing us to grow what we had into a new and better one. Perhaps my expectations are too high. Perhaps I feel things should be improving faster than they are. Maybe you just have no desire to try to re-kindle what used to be love between us. I have no idea, but I do know that I am not happy with the way things are now.

You said you would stay in the marriage. You say "I'm here now aren't I?". I say physically, yes you are, but mentally, you are not. What needs to happen for that to take place?

I've tried to be patient and understanding through all of this, but, once again, my patience is growing thin.

What do you propose we do next???""""""

I have not ruled out Plan B, but the fog seems to be clearing. But it's clearing at such a slow pace, I don't know if I can wait much longer. Perhaps the A is over, I can't be 100% sure, but I think NC is for real this time.

At any rate, I'd appreciate your comments on what good or damage I might have done. Thanks in advance!! :::looking for hardhat:::

SD,

I think it is clear that plan A should be coming to an end very soon. Most people go to plan B too late, which means they have lost their love of the spouse, so that even if the spouse decides to come back, the BS has nothing left to run on.

It is clear you are getting pretty fed up. I don't think your email was an LB, although your W won't be happy with it. It is the truth as you see it, and you do ask for her input. However, it would seem you are starting to get to the stage where ending the marriage is sounding more attractive. If that is the case, then it is time for Plan B.

It may not work with regards to the marriage. It is clear the affair is still on in her mind. She called him again just a few weeks ago. But, plan b will allow you to preserve love longer thus allowing her to finish the A and maybe withdrawal. It will also prepare you for the other solution which is the dissolution of your marriage if it comes to that.

I think you need to read up on Plan B, and start preparing your letter, it should be a love letter to her. Take you time but get to work on this. I think the time for transition is coming soon.

God Bless,

JL

I am no expert... in fact... I just started down this road myself. And I know how hard it is not to LB... trust me I had my own event yesterday, but it seems to me that email just robbed the love bank you were trying to fill.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Our marriage has been like this for years. Don't piss off the queen bee. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I mean I understand your anger one BS to the other... and mine hasn't even come home yet so this maybe easy for me to say. But in one letter you managed to withdraw a lot of love deposits. As I understand it... if you are in Plan A... no LBing. PERIOD.

I am sure this will anger her... As a wife... I can tell you that Queen Bee thing really Peeps me off. Try to find out what she's needing, what needs the OM met for her... that's how you reach her... I think... at least that's my interpretation so far. Good Luck and lots of strength to you.

heavenlee30...

LOL... those are words taken from WW's mouth, and we've joked about it for years. That's why I chose them. It wasn't intended to be, nor was it a LB... I see how you could have read it that way.

Thanks for your thoughts, and to you JL, I appreciate your insightful words.

I'd still be interested in a few more opinions, if others have the time.

Thanks

LOL isn't that funny...

In our tiffs... the queen bee is kinda like his oh see the queen wants it this way or that way... anything else your worker bee can do for you type of thing..

Sorry, my bad... glad that's an inside joke for you... in my house that would have been a big time LB.

I'm pretty much of an expert at LBing, having done it all during the affair while trying to do Plan A. Your "queen bee" reference is just the most obvious disrespectful judgment. Ask yourself: would your wife feel good about yourself having read that letter?

I didn't understand it at the time, but I think it would have been best for both of us if there had been a separation. She is not treating you with respect, and you are treating her badly right back. That has to change.

Hi SD! Don't know about the '2X4' thing but anyway, your wife sounds like a CARBON COPY of my first wife.
Not going into details here, but from my past experience with a 'can do no wrong but you're always wrong' type of mate, I'd say that your wife is in serious need of an
ATTITUDE ADJUSTMENT.
If what you wrote about her is that bad - then it really is all about her - all about her needing to change her attitude about you and your marriage!
Until there's an attitude change on her part, you are just spinning wheels.
Believe me, I know, boy do I really know.
Harold

I am (or hopefully was) your W.

Your email wouldn't have made one iota of difference to me. My H and I used to get locked into a battle where we were struggling against each other. Picture two people facing each other with their hands pressed against the other's hands and pushing as hard as they could trying to knock the other off balance. I would start pushing, he would have to apply pressure (or become defensive) to protect himself.

So, you are here...she's not. What can YOU do to change the situation? To get out of the locked battle? Don't push back. What would happen if you gave in? She would fall into you. How would that work?

Try an email where you express deep gratitude and love for her. Where you notice that she seems very sad and angry these days and that you feel helpless to help her. That you are trying to do things she has asked for, but don't think that is helping her feel better. That you want to help her. That you are worried about your love for each other...that the rate you both are going you are growing apart and it scares you.

When my H had his A...I had to back down from the cold war we had...and stay that way. It takes a big change. BUT...the good thing is, when just one person changes, the other HAS to change in response.

I very much agree with Stillheremakingit. Your email seems very counter-productive to me. I think you should have written it, then posted it here for comments BEFORE sending it. You do need to get those feelings and thoughts out of yourself, but not to her.

I know it has been 3 weeks since NC, that you know of. But I seem to remember in Dr. Harley's book that withdrawal can take anywhere from 3 weeks, to 6 months! You are just on the cusp of possible unfogginess, and expecting her to be able to take "her share" of the lead in recovery. In my opinion.

The email you wrote was not Plan A. If you are not capable of Plan A anymore (and I am not judging - everyone has their limits, and you have done an awesome job so far!), then I think Plan B is in order, because you do not want to end up in the same place she is right now.

Just my thoughts. I am new here, but Stillheremakingit echoed my thoughts and feelings, and I thought I would chime in.

Good luck, and use these boards to vent and get ideas - maybe before acting - in case someone has a perspective that you hadn't thought about.

Amy

StillHereMakingIt....

Very insightful response. In fact, that is what the MC advised me to do in IC, and that's what I thought I'd been doing. And for the past 3-4 months I've been tolerant of angry outbursts and her "me, me, me" attitude. I just wasn't seeing enough response to my actions to suit me, so I thought I'd throw her a 180 note as a wake up call that the trains still at the station, it's time to show by actions there's some committment from her to get on board.

I'm still trying to figure out if WW is more like you, or Sauron's (W?S). She has never been to eager to look inside for reasons to change, and has extreme self esteem problems. The MC says she always looks to me for placing blame on things she does not wish to own up to, thereby protecting her own self esteem. That counseling needs to continue, but she's not been since mid January, for the reasons listed in my e-mail to her.

But there's still hope. It can be the perfect set-up for the e-mail you suggested that is smack dab in the middle of Plan A, and perhaps I'll feel better for having sent the first to make it clear what my feelings are, and have been for a while. Maybe that will give me some more energy to continue the Plan A? I asked her this morning about NC, and she says that there has been none since the early Jan. call mentioned earlier. So that's a good sign.

Thank you for your responses.... if you think of anything else that might be helpful...post away!!!

Here is her response to my e-mail, if it gives anyone any insight regarding our situation:

""""I know you're very unhappy with me and I know that its my fault & I'm sorry for it. AND I know I'm the one who needs to change everything about myself, attitude, everything and I know if I don't that you'd prefer to be free of me. I accept the blame at this point for everything & I mean it.
I want you to be happy with me/without me if it is that way....

...I realize you work hard & answer to many people & probably get interupted constantly. I feel like I have a day full of kids needing something (she does home day care), plus lots of other calls. By 5:30, I'm full of it & maybe a walk then or getting away alone would help me. I don't know. I know I come to you whining, complaining, frustrated & *****y & I'm surprised you haven't shot me.
You & me...I know I need to get to that immediately.
I have many appointments all over town this morning. Will be away from 9:30 to 1:00.
Please don't be miserable....I'm the one with the problem. Feel good that you've done everything you can & be happy with yourself. One can't change another person. I wanted to many times. I gave up...I checked out on it....I must try to get something back. I don't know how to sometimes. I don't understand much of anything sometimes. I can't tell you to wait for anything from me one more minute. You've been patient long enough. Talk to you later."""""

I don't know if there's much there to help, but she seems to live in this "dispair" that I can't reach her in. Our MC even suggested that she seems to have a need for turmoil in her life???

At any rate, you all know of my frustration, and that's why I'm here asking for your input.

Thanks for caring!!!

I'd like someone's point of view, if you have the time.

Thanks...

SD,

Here it is...she actually reached out to you in that statement, She doesnt know what to do. She has no clue. But, she did say over and over again that she has NO TIME.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">By 5:30, I'm full of it & maybe a walk then or getting away alone would help me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hello? This is a clue. This woman is so inundated with daily stuff that she cant see straight. Thus, the affair was probably an escape from that.

Everyone needs an escape now and then from the day-to-day grind. YOU MUST NOW BE HER ESCAPE. NOT HER GRIND!

So, come home with a plan. Have someone there right after you get home to watch the kids. Then you take her on that walk. Dont argue...just hand her coat to her and say "let's go." Or take her to dinner, or a movie, or whatever. Make life a little unpredictable...in a good way.

Take this woman on a three week vacation. Somewhere she wont deal with what she deals with now. When she finds that everytime she is downtrodden, that you are her escape...well then, the only affair she will ever have is with you!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I think she is telling you something here. Ultimatums wont work though because she doesnt know what to do. You do though. Be her escape. Run interference for her. Let her find mystery, suspense, excitement, etc in you. Let her not know what you will do next. One week, you show up and take her on that walk. The next...she comes upstairs to find a dress laying on the bed and a note to be ready by 6pm...and she doesnt know where she is going.

One time, for Valentines Day, a friend of mine (his girlfriend was friends with my wife) did this whole elaborate thing. My wife was expecting to go out to dinner..so was her friend. But neither knew that the other had been put into this scheme. My friend and I left notes all over town. With a manager at a store, on the side of phone booths, etc. Then, at the appointed time, we had someone deliver each of them a note at their houses. The note was scripted, where they had to use their brain to think of where the next note is. So, they went on their journey. When they had spent probably an hour going place to place, then the last note told them they would meet a friend and that friend would have the other half of the final note, which would outline their final destination. So, they both left where they were, and showed up at a restaurant...where they saw each other. Together, they put their notes together and found out where to go to meet me and her friends guy-friend. The whole time (about 2 hours), we just sat at the final restaurant drinking beers and waiting.

Let me tell you something. That little adventure paid dividends that night...especially in the bedroom!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Spice up her life. Get her out of her rut. Otherwise, she will miss what somewhat else might offer in getting her out of her rut.

In His arms.

I think Mortarman has the right idea. You are her husband, her helpmate, the person she can depend on when things are going wrong.

Be that man. Don't take anything she says personally. I doubt if she is really thinking when she says the stuff. Be her hero.

Give her time to process and understand what she did and why she did it. I suspect she can't discuss many of these things because she does not understand herself, except that she feels very bad about many things including the A.

Just my thoughts.

Great ideas MM!!! I'd like to use some of those.

Even simple ideas that bring FUN to the house. H and I do this to each other...we'll wait righ outside the bathroom door, when the other walks out we jump out at them with a burst of noise and grabbing them (shoulders are good) and then we both laugh and hug. Great adrenaline boost.

Just sitting on the couch giving mutual foot rubs...

Or, as our MC says, just lay her head in your lap and talk...stroke her hair, father her.

mortarman... thanks for the brick upside the head <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Likewise justin and still!!!

Stopping by store on the way home for a fresh supply of patience, and some creativity soon as I leave work.

Posting here and reading the wonderful responses is rejuvenating and therapudic. Thank you for responding!

Thank you to all. I have just finished reading this post from beginning to end and I have to admit that it has opened my eyes and refocused me. My head has been spinning all morning with thoughts of my H's OW but after reading this...it's going to be a much better day. Thank you!