This morning H was snuggling up in a very sexual way, then it kind of stopped. It left me confused and I talked to him about it. He said, "You've been so good to me I just wanted to show you affection." I told him it confused me because it didn't just feel like affection. Anyway, a conversation began that was like a smack in my face. As I've posted, he has fired OW and this is her last week at work. He has made a point of never being alone with her. he's spending all off time with me. We have had sex several times, no intercourse, because I'm not ready. We are walking together and holding hands, and hug throughout the night.

OK, now to my big eye opening awareness. It has become clear that she is a manipulative, lying person, not just because of the A, but what she did to his business partner. H seemed to be getting that fact. This morning I could tell he had lost that fact. He said he loves me, but without me asking, I realized he still has those "in-love" feelings for OW. I asked him why he wants to be married to me. His reply, "We have a long history together, we're a family, the kids, and our committment." I think I said "Well, the committment didn't seem too important over the past year." I pretty much told him I want much more than that if we recover, and it became clear to me that he still has doubts of whether we can have more than an average marriage.

I realized that I got way ahead of myself in where I thought we are, as apposed to where we are. First of all, he has begun the withdrawal symptoms, but OW has been in his face since he fired her 1/30/04. How can he have gone through the withdrawal if he's seeing her every day? I know, I do feel like an idiot on that point. And somehow I deluded myself into thinking that because we had passionate sex (he admitted feeling it and said he was with me emotionally and not her at the time), and we've been engaging in all this loving behavior, gee maybe my H loves me. Maybe he is feeling romantic love for me. Wrong!!!

I have asked this before, but maybe I've been too preoccupied to hear the answer. I can't compete with stage one in-love feelings. H opened the door to feeling those feelings again in his life. I'm sure he felt immense passion and pleasure. Having sex when your in that state must be great. We are never going to be in stage one again. I told him our love is at a much deeper level than that. But to him, I know all he's remembering is the in-love feelings. Am I being delusional to think that it's possible to have love and passion with someone you've been with for years? The man told me how much he loved me in August/2002. I remember that day because we were on a great vacation together. Then all the deaths happened, and his affair.

How do I cope with this withdrawal stage? I want to just screw the whole thing and stop trying. I feel so vulnerable. I'm going through all this pain, supporting him, haven't been able to study for my licensure exam so I can get a job, and for what? A man who isn't even sure he can love me in the same way as the lovely OW? Harley says ENs can't even be met during this stage, so why bother? Can he really get over the fantasy and feel love for me again?

Please MBers answer my post. As always, many thanks!

cv55

You and I are at a similar point. Somewhere between Plan A and the early stages of recovery, however, with the OM still in your WH presence, you are in limbo for another week.

I would continue to Plan A, and that means NO more LB's, and make you the better choice. When the OW is out and on her way the REAL NC will begin.

That can be a long and slippery slope, with the WS emotions going all over the place. You will have continued foggy episodes, the WS will be going through withdrawal for 3 weeks to 6 month, and you will continue to wonder who you are married to.

Time is your greatest ally, and it's important, though difficult to remain patient and understanding to all these changing emotions. Keep posting and learning, and venting when necessary, but don't give up. It gets better, but it just gets a little tiny better, one day at a time, not counting setbacks. Patience!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CV55:
<strong> A man who isn't even sure he can love me in the same way as the lovely OW? Harley says ENs can't even be met during this stage, so why bother? Can he really get over the fantasy and feel love for me again?

Please MBers answer my post. As always, many thanks! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">CV55, what he feels is not love, but infatuation. An infatuation that will start wearing off now that contact has ended. It was all a fantasy that will start blowing away now. Now that contact has ended, withdrawal can truly take place and recovery can START.

Once he is away from her and you start filling all his needs, he will start feeling those in love feelings for you. But it is important that you know what his needs ARE and start meeting them.

I am VERY ALARMED that you are not having sexual intercourse, though, as that is usually one of the top 10 needs of men. That is some scary business especially when he is withdrawing from the OW. Why are you not having intercourse?

As far as the rest of it goes, CV55, he is right where a recovering spouse should be. This is all to be expected. It will now just get better and better if you both actively work to meet each others needs. Your situation sounds extremely hopeful in my opinion.

Shattered Dreams, you are right about my needing patience. I can't make this recovery move along faster than it is, for him or myself. I just realize how difficult it has been to have her at his business for the past 6 weeks when the truth began unfolding. I can't wait until she's gone. And if I'm honest, I think today I am feeling this anxiety. Like, wonder if he changes his mind before the week is up? The person he hired to replace her I think is not working out. She actually almost set the building on fire yesterday. Partner friend and I were talking yesterday about my H and karma. We both think he and Ow have gotten almost immediate bad karma for their actions. However, just from a business point of view, I know he wishes OW could still run his office.

MelodyLane, I actually thought we were doing pretty good in the sex department. I just finished reading "After the Affair" and the author made it sound like it can take a while to rebuild that part of our married life. We might not be having intercourse, but we are satisfying each other. To answer your question of why I won't have intercourse. I am one of those people who need to know the whole truth, with the details. One man on this site said he needed to know the details so he would know what he must forgive. That's me! H is having a very hard time disclosing what they did sexually. First he said he didn't screw because he was afraid he couldn't perform because of BP meds. Then when I was grilling him, and asked if they screwed, he said yes. On Sunday, I very calmly was trying to get details, and he said he tried, but couldn't because of BP meds. So what is the truth? My therapist said, "H knows if he did or didn't have intercourse."

I thanked him last night for having the courage to slowly tell me the truth. I know it's hard for him. He said his extreme guilt and humiliation makes it very hard for him tell me the truth. Until I know, and believe he is making love to me, I just can't do it. Last night I asked him if he feels closer to me when we do what we've been doing and he without hesitation said "Yes!" I am able to do that and I don't feel violated. I'm enjoying it too.

Concerning the fantasy, he told me early this morning that he is struggling with the fantasy. He described it as the fantasy he had of the perfect relationship. (like one exists!) He said it's like there is a screen in front of him and he is having difficulty getting through it to the other side. I hope that screen is the withdrawal and he can move beyond it.

CV55,

I can understand your frustration here but please get a hold of yourself.First,your WH is not in any withdrawal,the OW hasn't left the dang building yet!

Also,why on earth would you want to know the gory details of his sexual encounters with her? I personaly do not see ANY helpful insight there only hurtful.I understand about your *need to know things but I would consider that destructive not constructive,as my counselor would say.

You both will need to build a new foundation from which all happy and fulfilling sexual memories will come and you should not have thoughts in the back of your mind about what they did,it may only impede that recovery.JMHO.

You sound like you're in an awful hurry to get to a certain place that is only going to take time,compassion and patience.Also,don't try to "compete" with what was but do your best to make a BETTER what WILL BE.Raking your WH over the coals about his former feelings will only make him feel even more down about himself and what he did.So stop asking so many questions.Pace yourself and really think *first what you really want to know and then ask yourself,SHOULD you know this.

OK,I'm done.

O <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Octobergirl, from what i've read here and in books, some of us BS's want to know details and some don't. I don't want to know every detail of how he touched her, etc. However, I think it's my right to know if they had intercourse. I know it isn't even in his head that if sex was unprotected I'd want him to be tested. However, everyone she slept with effects me, so I want to know if he did or didn't screw her. I also want to put my imagination to rest. It could be my imagination is worse than the reality. Finally, believe it or not, it builds trust in me for him to give me the details I need. I want to understand this better.

H told me on Sunday that in a past life I must have been in the Spanish inquisition. However, I don't grill him every day. I have been pretty easy on him. But every now and then I need more info. I think it actually makes us closer when I can withstand his feelings. Some of the time it is really tough. On Friday, if he is really upset when she leaves, I don't think I want to hear about it. And you are so right. Unfortunately we haven't even begun the withdrawal stage. At least we are beginning MC next week. Thanks for your input.

Just to clarify,of course you have a right to know if they "did it" but I got the impression that you wanted more info on how,where,when,etc.GAG!

Glad to hear that you are on your way to MC.Good luck with that.

O <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Actually, I hate to gag you, but I actually do want some of those details. Don't ask me why. I want to know when the first time was, how often they did whatever, and when was the last time they had physical contact.

For some reason tonight I am feeling the betrayal. I found myself crying on the way home from work tonight out of the blue. I hate that I don't trust my H. I guess I need to know how deeply he betrayed me.

I can understand wanting to know when the *last contact was but be careful when you open that can of worms.Just thinking about your wellbeing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

O