For the ones that haven't read my thread. I'm a WH(FWH). I have a question for everyone, I've been putting this off, I guess in part because I'm afraid of the answer.

Is it right to ask for forgiviness?

That's not the entire question. And I'm sure it has to be qualified somehow. But here is a little more background on my story.

Me and my wife have been married for 7 years.

She came from a divorced household. Her mother remarried and she didn't get along with her new step father. She moved out of the house(17 yrs old) in with a person(out of town) that basiclly treated her like a doormat. He would lie, cheat and steal from her all the time. He would go out and be with other women and come 'home' to her to have sex with her also. To say the relationship was [censored] would be an understatement. She basiclly payed for his life style because she was the only one working for thier 'household'.

She finally started getting her life in order and moved back in with her aunt(A VERY good woman) but tried to work on her relationship with her abusive father. He was still the same man that abused her when she was a child but he couldn't pick on her now that she was grown. He often left her for days at a time with little or no food and a house that couldn't be secured in the middle of no where. She didn't have a vehicle either.

Then I came along and found her through a friend(her cousin) when she spent the night at his house. I felt a deep connection with her because we both had self-esteem issues and had the same views on several things. I moved her in with me and my parents(No respect to my parents) and tried to help her get over her bad childhood and the rough times she was having in her life. Mostly letting her know that I wasn't going anywhere. Buying her things and just generally taking care of her and letting her know that I loved her. It was very hard because I had some of those same self-esteem issues minus the abandonment part.

On the weekend I was going to ask her to marry me(was taking a trip to a romantic spot) we had just had sex and she starts getting really scared that she was pregnant(I had never came close to making anyone preg before, I always used protection of some kind) and I ended up telling her what my plans were. It all led to a lot of mixed feelings from both of us.

Well, It turned out she was right. We had a baby boy on the way. I got layed off from my job a few months later and to say it was a depressing time wouldn't come close.. But I found work and we was able to make it through it. The more I worked at that job the worse I felt. It wasn't what I wanted to do for a living, and if you would have told me before that would be where I was at I would have laughed at you.

Things started to get miserable. She wasn't happy because of the resentment I carried with me cause me to get mad at her when she was trying to work to make a better life for herself(And looking back for us too). At the time I felt that I had missed my chance why should she get one on MY back. Stupid, I know!

We struggled along and I finally changed jobs. Doing something I wanted to do, in a field I enjoyed. We got on the path of owning our own place and everything should have been good... But there were still tons of resentment under the surface.

I started playing an online game shortly after. I would spend many hours just sitting there playing it not paying any attention to her or our son. I finally got her interested in it in hopes that we would spend sometime together playing. She played it but would often wander off to do her own thing because we weren't really all that close in lvls and it didn't work to well trying to play together. She later caught up to and passed me. We still couldn't play together because of the difference in lvls and she had made a new set of friends. This is the start of when things got REALLY miserible. We stopped talking to each other all together. Nothing got done around the house(I'm a reforming slacker. I know to handle this now!) and things went all to h*ll. One day I decided to do some snooping. I came across an email where she was talking to a guy from out of state. It wasn't anything blatent or anything but I could see a relationship forming. I tried talking to her about it some but that didn't do any good. I continued to check her email and one day I found a plane ticket confermation from 'out of state guy'. We had seperated shortly before then and it was a huge shock. I brought it up to her and she said it had nothing to do with the seperate. It was all because I wasn't taking care of her or the family(She was right). We eventually got through everything and got back together. We kept playing and I tried to accept that she hadn't done anything wrong with the guys from out of state or anyone else for that matter. But it happened again later on and I got some of the information that I needed that time(I wasn't meeting needs). In my defence I hadn't made/found any tools to fix anything. I didn't take care of my problems/issues I needed to. Later, we found ourselves in the same situation but we now had a daughter. She had become very close to a person she played with all the time. I wasn't into the game so much anymore because I could see it taking my wife away from me. She would play 20+ hours a day and take a nap and get up and play some more. Very unhealth and she wouldn't listen to me when I tried to get her to stop(I hadn't listened to her why should she listen to me). She told me a guy from TX was going to be coming up in 3 weeks to vacation here and wanted to visit US. I had played with him a few times but didn't know him all that well. It sent up some red flags but I was like I'm here everything will be cool. We ended up getting into a fight a few days later and I went to a friends house I talked to him awhile. I came home that night and slept on the couch without talking to her. Went to work the next day without saying a word. When I finally got home she jumped up on me while I was on the couch and made a deal with me. Something like, no game till atleast 10pm at night[because she couldn't sleep] no game one night a week for US time and no game one night a week for family time. This wasn't exactly what I wanted but I was pretty happy at the attempt at comp. and went along with it. Two days later she told me she didn't want me there but she wasn't going to tell me to leave either. So, with my hurt ego, I left. This is around the 2 week till 'TX' gets in point. She later told me she hadn't been able to grow in our relationship and wasn't going to be happy with me. And that she needed to get on with her life without me and that she didn't love me anymore. The only thing she felt was resentment because I didn't help around the house or with the kids enough. She called me up the week before 'TX' got in and asked if I would watch the kids while they went out to see the sites that weekend(At same romantic place I had taken her to propose). I had watched the kids the weekend before(Term of our agreement) and I was like okay, I get to spend time with the kids(Even though my jealous streak was glowing). I was staying right next door at my families house. And got to see all the comings and goings. She said he wouldn't be spending the night and that was what happened the very first night. The next nights that didn't happen, they would leave late and for the most part I think she would come back home. That weekend I got the kids at 6pm friday and didn't see her again till 9-10pm sunday night. I was heartbroken.... I decided I couldn't live with seeing anything else happen with her(Other men in her life) and went to live with a friend. About a month later I met someone over the internet and we ended up seeing each other. It wasn't a very good fit. But she had several things going for her. She was single mother, she was a good parent. She worked part-time while going to school full time. Someone that seemed to have thier head on thier shoulders. I told her about the seperation and we started dating anyway. We ended up getting physical(I didn't think me and my wife would ever get back together) and it seemed to me I was getting on with my life. Later on we split up because she couldn't understand why I hadn't filed yet(Me either). But she mentioned that I was trying to use her for a substute for my wife. I, of course, couldn't see that. Even though I was doing everything my wife liked/wanted for me to do. I even called her by my wifes name once when I was asking if she needed anything before bed. I was heartbroken because I was again alone. I finally started letting things go. And started feeling better. But a freak thing happened. My wife got a job at a gas station like 2 miles from our home. I usually went there before work. Well I stopped and filled up the morning of when she was supposed to work(She worked evenings) so I could avoid her. Well the ignition in my truck failed. It wouldn't turn the engine over and I had to push it to the side and bum a ride. I had to go back down there that evening and fix it. We ended up talking and getting back together a few weeks later. Keep in mind I thought she had had an affair. We tried to work through things but something wasn't right. My S kept talking to her about OW. Normal I wouldn't let my kids meet someone I was just dating but I had gotten serious with this person because I was being clingy. Nevermind the fact we didn't 'fit'. So we had all spent time together. I acted like nothing was wrong. A few months later I finally figured out I needed to talk to her about this. When I tried she blew up at me about half way through. Then I lost all my nerve to talk to her about it. That's when I commetted the biggest mistake. I lied to her about it. I know several of you will laugh at this part because I'm sure you've heard it used so much. But I told her I slept in the floor and on the couch. No one really believes this, but hey, I was being stupid for lying why not tell a stupid lie while at it. Instead of dealing with things we ended up smoothing things over.

I'm writing a book, think I'll stop/slow down here... but basiclly the same thing happened again, but I had no delussion of being in love with the second one. I didn't find her attractive, a good person to be around, NOTHING. The only thing she had to offer me was some affection. With me in my selfish weakness I took it. Later I nearly puked my guts out for being so stupid. Still do when I think about it.

We again worked through things with me lying. For two years I went along with living the lie. She had told me she hadn't had an affair(I thought she did). Why should I tell her I had been involved in the same when she was lying to me(self justification)? Weekend before last I had had enough. She was back to playing all night while I went to sleep alone. We didn't talk much and had moved pretty far away from each other emotionally. I wanted a D and started talking to her about it. I then was pretty torn up because I didn't really want to leave her, I just wanted for us to both be happy. I started talknig to a friend and I told him about this story. He said I needed to tell her about the A and let her decide. I told her I would and then he forced my hand(More of a bluff because I don't think he would have done it) but I did what I needed to. I told her. I've been trying to get myself right and work on our R for the past days. I've been making a big effort(atleast to me).

But now that you know part of the story(Please believe that I made many MANY mistakes and wasn't taking care of her EN. Pretty sh!tty person to her besides that after the resentment had built up). Are we two people that have a chance of recovery? Should I try to make a recovery with her? She had indicated before that she wasn't interested in being married to me. I guess I should be asking myself, and her if we really love each other. Love each other, not love what we each do for each other. I've given it some thought and I believe I do love her. I keep making that same decision. But how do I know if the marriage is something that she really wants? She keeps coming back to me. But I wonder if she wouldn't be better off/more happy with someone else. Part of the reason that thought scares me is the fact she will have someone that can love her better than me(A better person than me) which is a VERY good thing(She'll be happy) and bad thing(I'm a failure).

I know I started out as a good person. Over the years my built up resentment has rotted my brain and allowed me to justify bad desisions. The big question is where do I go from here? I'm already working on being a better person and taking care of what I need to(including my wife). But does my wife really need/want my help anymore with things outside of childcare?

Even after everything has happened we have a good sex life. And she tells me she is jealous because I'll be a great husband since she has already put up with all the hurt from the 'training'. I know things are still way too new(The nerves endings are still exposed) but what do I do? I've been busting my @$$ trying to be what I think she needs. Is that wrong of me? Would she be better off being single and meeting someone else who could meet all her needs without all the pain I caused her?

Becomingaman,
Boy, that was a long one. I'm glad you got it off your chest though. When I read your story, I see a man that has extremely low self-esteem. Why are you not good enough for her? Because you made some mistakes? Nobody is perfect. You didn't mention if you were in counseling or not, but I would highly recommend you seek counseling. If not, at least read some good books on the subjects you talk about. I think you really love her which is why you never got the D. I think the M is worth saving. You both need to get rid of the gaming - it is an addiction and taking away from all the important things in life.

The biggest thing, probably the biggest thing in all marriages, is the fact that I wasn't taking into account her EN. I had no clue about the priciples of PoJA either. I would made decisions(only me) that were bad for us becuase I would only be looking at things from my prespective. That's wrong... I KNOW that's wrong... Up until a few days ago I had no idea that was what I was doing. But basicly I forced my position on ever issue we had. We were eye deep in debt one christmas(ever christmas actually) and she rented me a big screen tv because that's what she thought would make me happy. We didn't have the money for it so I took it back. Instead of doing the right thing with it. Keeping the money and paying bills. My original arguement for not being able to keep it(Keep in mind she was really proud of this!) I went out and got a motocycle. Roughly the same cost per month. I justified it by going back on what I said, we didn't have the money, and chalked it up to it being something I haven't had since I was a young teenager and it would be good for us. I did manage to swing enough to get her a bike too with a mileage check. But I have made these same mistakes over the entire marriage. I have low self-esteem because I keep doing stupid <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

The other side of my self-esteem problem. The part that really shouldn't be there, I'm coming to grips with. Most of it has to do with my sexuality. I was sexually abused when I was young for the great majority of my life. I thought I had delt with it by getting on with life. I still hadn't equated my need for sex being tied to myself worth. I've got that one down straight now that I've identified it. Some of it was from closure also. I didn't get to do what I felt I needed to do. I've come to gribs with that by looking at the end result. The situation ended, and it's over and done with. Just because I didn't get to end it doesn't mean I failed. Just that I should have fixed it much soon and not felt so ashamed. The shame is something I still have a hard time dealing with. Althought apparently not nearly as much as used to be, otherwise I wouldn't have shared it here.

The counseling is a great idea. I talked to my wife a little bit about my A's today. I told her I didn't really want to talk about it outside of counseling because of the destructive possibilites of it. But she said she wasn't going to go to counseling. She was having doubts if she was good enough and said the A's were proof she wasn't. Which is crazy, but a normal reaction. She of course isn't responsible. I am, only me! It was a very bad mistake. I know it was a mistake, and it will never happen again. It'll take the rest of my life to prove that. But if I know(okay, think) she wants me and truely loves me it will be time well spent....

I don't know. A lot of 'internal' problem resolution has to take place yet. I'm getting there, it's just taking me awhile and it feels like my brain is cooking in the fire.

Go to counseling by yourself even if she won't go with you. It will be good for you plus it shows that you are willing to make changes and better yourself. She will see it.

Dont refuse to talk to her or answer questions: you need to make her see that she can trust you to be honest with her. One of the most important issues you have right now is rebuilding trust.

Dont give up on your M, you can be good enough for her, and you can make her happy. You are already halfway there because you really want to make her happy.

Get rid of the internet connection. This game is damaging and probably costing you money that you dont have.

Sending my love.

It's not my desision to kill the internet OR get rid of the game. I went over there tonight to cook dinner for her and the kids. Everything went good, except I was feeling snubbed. She was spending most of her time on the computer. She kept asking me what was wrong and I didn't want to tell her. I finally did and she blew up on me. I deserved it.... I messed this marriage up so bad...

One day I'll be able to hold my head up again, but it'll be awhile. And I don't think ever around her... I don't know if ever around me kids either.....

Sorry for the pity party... Just feeling really bad tonight. I'm still trying to figure out what I should do. I don't want her to have to worry the rest of her life if I'm being faithful. She doesn't deserve that, but it's hard for me to let her go. I don't really have a choice in the matter but I keep trying to show her. And I know it's causing her a lot of pain.

I've said this before, I can't imagine the rest of my life without her. But at the same time she deserves better. And anything to help her through this pain is a good thing. She put me up really high, and when I let her down it hurt more. I mean I felt some of the same feelings as she does when I thought she had cheated on me. But I done a lot worse and what I did was real.

Anyway, I'm going to go now. Piss an moan to myself a little and go to bed. With her going through this I still feel sorry for myself.. Pathetic...

Don't apologize for a pity party, you are going through genuine pain, and MB is a good place to vent about it and look for some support. It's okay to "Piss an moan to myself a little and go to bed" it's what I'm doing tonight too. Infidelity hurts us all, whether we're the FWS or the BS. I am starting to think that the pain will always be there beneath the surface, and never really go away. I guess my point is you're not alone in your pain, and it's okay to feel sorry for yourself, because your pain is real.

Somehow it makes me feel a bit better while I try to comfort you a bit. Hope it helps.

Jen