Mortarman I don't know if you have read my post, but I really wish you can help me with this one. I gave my H his Plan B letter back in Oct. Sparkle, Ark, Orchid, Star*fish helped me with it.


H,

This is a hard letter to write, but I can no longer ignore the pain and emptiness of the last year and a half. I love you very much. I am in love with you H ,but I know its time to give up fate of our marriage to God and I pray that he works through us to heal these wounds. When I said my marriage vows, and said "I DO" I made you a promise and God that I would stay with you for life. I meant it to. That meant for better or worse. I want very much to remain married to you always.

I realize that the mistakes we made helped to make our marriage vulnerable to this affair. I am sorry for my mistakes and I have been working hard to understand and learn how to prevent those things from ever happening again. I have changed and become a better person and I want the opportunity to show you that. I can be the wife and friend you disire. I wish I could go back and change the mistakes I have made in the past, but I can't. I have how ever address the things that hurt our marriage and change the future. I want to be your wife, and for you to be my husband we are both worthy of and deserve.

The pain of this continued affair is so hurtful to me, that it is destroying my love for you.The only way to protect the love I have left is to end any contact with you until you end the affair and commit to our marriage and stop seeing OW,when you have ended the A, you may contact me and let me know. I will welcome the chance to discuss our marriage and its recovery. Please honor my request and stop communicating to me until that happens. I am not closing the door on our marriage. I am proctecting my love for you from further harm.

I realize I have to take care of me now and the kids. I can only control me now and keep changing myself for the better. Only you can control you and change you,if you choose to. You are the only person I have allowed myself to love so deeply.

It really hurts to keep hopeing ,and praying,wishing,trying and feeling rejected continuousty. I beleive enough in you and in me that we can both come to be a team in marriage, where we cherish each other as much as we cherish our vows.

If you need to get in contact with me about Yson tell your mother she can give me your message or email me at---------.


I LOVE YOU!
with
ALL My Heart&Soul
Your Wife


This is what he wrote back. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Wife,

#1 it sounds like blackmail for our marriage.

#2 you still aren't acting on a friendship basis

#3 you asked me to be friends

#4 If something happens to me do you really think e fu**ing mail is popper communication

#5 I won't say nothing that I can't say to your face

#6 If I did have something to say, I'll say it when I'm ready, not when anyone else is.

#7 I took vows also and made a promises also in our marriage.

#8 I have things to deal with inside of me that hurt me to when I come over here, but you still don't have to throw gas on the fire.

#9 I can't believe I'm sitting writing this childish sh#t anyway not trying to hurt you but damn if you think your doing our marriage any good your wrong, because right now I'm highly pissed off at this childish behavior. I think you just want to drive me away now, anyway so thats all I got to say unless you think you can come up with the guts to talk to me face to face!

They were numbered like that.

Ok.. I have been here for two years and he had nothing to say and still don't. I do have the guts and he still does not talk! I seen your post to HopelessnNY and mine also has a very strong miltary back ground. You could say his whole family. Uncle still in Fort Hood Tx that told him he is very upset with his action and choices.

I just want to know your take on his letter. I told him last Wed. with my tax money I will go see a lawyer and file seperation papers, H said it has been over a year. I said, ok then I will go straight for the divorce. None of this was said out of tone and I feel H wants that. I don't and I am so <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> How can he give up 18 years just like that? Please help!

Thank you for you time.

<small>[ February 23, 2004, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: No2nos ]</small>

^^^^^^^^^Bump^^^^^^^^^^

no2nos

If i waited as long as you did and that is the answer he gives me...i don't think i will wait one minute longer! I will definately go to that lawyer office the next day and file for D. But thats me...and this decision is yours.

Follow your intuition. You will know what is best to do. Who knows by going through D with him...it might actually knock sense in him.

No2Nos,

I do not know your whole history. But I can decifer Fogese. Before I do so, let me say something here. Do not threaten divorce, or any other paperwork unless you mean it. I was guilty of that. One of the first characteristics of a WS is that they want you to do the heavy lifting. If you want the divorce, if you have had enough of this, then go get it. If not, then you are in Plan B. Which means NC!! No talking to him face-to-face. Nothing. Now, let me show you where I think your husband is thru his letter (email).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">#1 it sounds like blackmail for our marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh yeah. Straight out of the Adultery 101 handbook, under the chapter entitled "What...you aren't going to just lie down and let me be selfish anymore?" You say you are having NC with him, and that is blackmail? Pure fogese!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">#2 you still aren't acting on a friendship basis.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, this is out of the same chapter as above. "If you were my friend, you would let me continue doing this as long as I need to do this." Ask yourself this...why does he want to be friends?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">#3 you asked me to be friends. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And? See question #2. If you were a friend, you wouldnt be hurting him by going to NC. Pulease!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">#4 If something happens to me do you really think e fu**ing mail is popper communication </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow...curse words even!! This boy really is in pain. If you read my other posts, you would see that Plan B accomplishes two things. </font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Protects you and your love for him</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Pulls back everything you do for him, thus causing him PAIN!</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If something happens to him...then the OW should take care of it. She is acting like his wife...so let her be it. Really, N2N, this is all about pain and he thinks you are the cause of it. This is good! More below.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">#5 I won't say nothing that I can't say to your face </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Gonna be hard if you are in NC. So what is he gonna do when he cant say what he has to say to your face? I'll tell you what he will do, he will try to talk to you. When he gets no response, he will get mad. And he will take that anger back to the OW. "Can you believe that b@#$h! My wife wont even talk to me. Blah, blah, blah." You think the OW is gonna like that? He is gonna have to take that anger somewhere...and she is going to get it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">#6 If I did have something to say, I'll say it when I'm ready, not when anyone else is. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow...he is angry. Good job on the Plan B!! Besides the fact that his sentence is nonsensical, it again proves that he is not a happy man. And that means the OW gets to deal with it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">#7 I took vows also and made a promises also in our marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And? You broke them. what is this statement? More fogese. It means that he is saying that he isnt a child, that he has weighed carefully his decisions, that his word is good. But, the evidence suggests otherwise. How do you respond? You dont. You are in Plan B. Your response is in the PBL. He is saying this because deep down, he knows he is an adulterer, liar, betrayer...and his word is worth nothing. Let him deal with it. And of course, the OW!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">#8 I have things to deal with inside of me that hurt me to when I come over here, but you still don't have to throw gas on the fire. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How are you throwing gas on the fire? Poor him! He's hurt you see. He has issues, and you should understand and be there for him no matter what. Psychobabble straight from the pit of the Fog. But there is truth in there. He does have things to deal with. And now he has all the time in the world to deal with them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">#9 I can't believe I'm sitting writing this childish sh#t anyway not trying to hurt you but damn if you think your doing our marriage any good your wrong, because right now I'm highly pissed off at this childish behavior. I think you just want to drive me away now, anyway so thats all I got to say unless you think you can come up with the guts to talk to me face to face!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Doing your marriage any good? Your marriage is dead. There is no marriage. He killed it. Can there be a new one? Sure. But he will have to stop being childish. You want to drive him away? You see, that's what he wants to think. He wants you to do the heavy lifting. You to be the one to end things, to drive him away. Because, you see, he is dealing with things and you arent being a friend and letting him have the time to do so (sarcasm).

I have been very sarcastic here. But for a point. you have to look at this from sarcasm. Do not take his ramblings seriously. Use sarcasm to cut thru to the truth.

The truth is that this man is not happy where he is or what he is doing. And now, he is extremely mad because he no longer has any part of you.

I want you to remember this, N2N...we do not get angry or upset over things we do not care about!

stay in Plan B. Do what you have to do to maintain NC. And see what happens. there is some movement here, but it still might not work out. So, if and when you are ready, then just file...and stay in NC. Remember, NC ends when the conditions of the PBL are met. There are no negotiations. Just surrender. If you divorce, then keep it up. My pastor recently told me that 60% of the people that divorced out of our church in the last 5 years have recently remarried each other. Be prepared that he will wake up at some time. Sure, it might be too late and you have moved on. But maybe not.

I would stay in Plan B for awhile if I were you and see how his anger plays out. You have "guts" and dont give in. Do not talk to him. The only responses you give him is another copy of the PBL.

Hang in there. He is deep in the fog. Let's see if pain will motivate him to want to get out of it.

In His arms.

Mortarman thank you so very much for your time.

Do you really feel if I stay in a good Plan B it may pull at him. I really don't want to go on this way.

A couple of weeks ago I packed the rest of his stuff that was in our room and he would not take it. Alot of his stuff is still here he does not take it. He left his Grandfather POW vest and all his medals here telling me he wanted it here because it would be safe. Those are his words,safe?

I do love him Mortarman <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> but when is it enough? I am reaching to you for those 2x4's to get me straight!!!! I love my HUSBAND, but I will not go were I am not wanted.

You sent the Plan B letter in October and he just now responded to you?

I told him last Wed. with my tax money I will go see a lawyer and file seperation papers, H said it has been over a year. I said, ok then I will go straight for the divorce.

A couple of weeks ago I packed the rest of his stuff that was in our room and he would not take it. Alot of his stuff is still here he does not take it. He left his Grandfather POW vest and all his medals here telling me he wanted it here because it would be safe. Those are his words,safe?
If you are in Plan B, how are you communicating weith each other?
How often does this happen?

Here's a bit of a lesson.
Part of Marriage Builders is saying what you mean and meaning what you say. There is no room for misunderstanding because you are not clear on what you say.

You wrote in your Plan B letter;
The only way to protect the love I have left is to end any contact with you until you end the affair
Has he ended the affair?
You wrote you would not have contact until it ended.
That didn't happen.

You also wrote, "I can be the wife and friend you disire".
Since you didn't keep to Plan B, why should he believe this?

<small>[ February 24, 2004, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

You sent the Plan B letter in October and he just now responded to you?

I'm sorry,no he responded that same night. That was the letter that was left for me when I returned home.

If you are in Plan B, how are you communicating with each other?

We had to talk about my van and the taxes.He wanted me to just take the tax money and use it for down payment on a new car. Hello my van is payed off why would I take on a payment?

How often does this happen?

When I need to talk money or about the children.

You wrote in your Plan B letter;
The only way to protect the love I have left is to end any contact with you until you end the affair
Has he ended the affair? no

You wrote you would not have contact until it ended.
That didn't happen.

I need to get to work and the children to were they need to go no car I am in trouble. The talk we were having was not about us, till he said use the tax money and I was telling him what I was going to do with it. My van is still in his name and he was going to do the same here again. He even tried to buy this car for me the next day in his name and the loan also? I said no.

You also wrote, "I can be the wife and friend you disire".
Since you didn't keep to Plan B, why should he believe this?

How did I not keep to Plan B?

You know what you got a point and how am I to believe him because he said in his letter#7 I took vows also and made a promises also in our marriage.

He is playing house with some other woman, and he is the one who asked me about the car when I said NC and he keeps trying to make contact. You are right,we are both living in falsehood.

Thanks for your post and words for thought <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

N2N,

Chris is right. And you are not living a falsehood...your husband is. But, you need to really look at what Chris is saying. Plan B is about protecting you, and causing him pain. Plain and simple. It is about the WS, who yes...is the one not to be trusted...finding trust in you. Does that sound weird? Of course it does. My wife has said over and over again "I find it hard to get back into this because I dont trust him." Why? Did I cheat on her, leave her? when asked by counselors, there really isnt an answer. THIS IS FOG!!

What they really need is stable ground to stand on. And you have to be it. Even when they continue to be unstable. Not fair? Of course it isnt. But, as Steve Harley told me...you want to be right, you want this to be fair...or do you want your marriage? There is plenty of time for being right and being fair later. You can be right all day, and be divorced. Right now, he will need a stable platform to come hoem to. So far, by what you have posted (and Chris is right), you havent done that.

No contact is simply that. Now, that being said, I also had to interact with my wife on kid issues. They were living with me and she would come pick them up. Or we had meetings with teachers together. Or whatever. You cant get away from that. But it sounds like instead of "I will pick them up at 8pm," that your conversations digress. And he even wants that...by what he asked in his email. He wants it to digress, so he can continue to believe in what he is doing.

All conversations must be to the point, short and business like. When they start to head in the wrong direction, you dont answer...you leave. Cut it off. if you cannot do that, then use a third party to talk thru and to hand kids off thru. I mean it! If you cannot maintain this barrier, he will not respect you (he doesnt respect you now). And if he doesnt respect you, he wont trust you. And if he cant trust you, he cant make that move. Because he certainly doesnt trust himself. My wife said that the beginning of the end for the A and for her coming home was when I stood up to her. YOU HAVE TO MEAN WHAT YOU SAY!! You are really dealing with a child right now...in many ways.

On your question of is he coming back...I dont know. No one knows. The odds are in your favor if you do the right things. But it is like the doctor who says right before you go into surgery that you have a 95% chance of living thru the surgery...but 0% chance if you dont have the surgery. Sure, you could be one of those 5% that doesnt make it. That's possible. But what are your current odds?

You have to do what is right...pray...and trust God. The rest is out of your hands. You have to let go. Friends of mine had me write a pact to myself and to God. In it, I began to write what I would give up...what I was willing to give up if I had to. Some things came easy. But when it got down to the possibility of losing my kids, I balked at first. No way!! Then my friends said "If God is in control, you cannot be. You have to be willing to let go of the wheel IN ALL THINGS!! Which means that even losing your kids is a possibility. Are you willing to give up control, to trust him? It took awhile, but I got there.

That doesnt mean I dont fight for my kids, or for what is right. It means that I give up the right to control the situation. That I must be willing to accept whatever outcome happens. That I m trusting God.

So, pray...get your life with God straight...get into a real Plan B and stay there. And then watch what happens. If you trust God, He will ALWAYS do what is best for you!

In His arms.

You have to do what is right...pray...and trust in God. The rest is out of your hands

I'll put that one on paper and tape it to my mirror to read every morning.

Thanks for your time,I here what you are saying. What do I have to lose? He is already in her arms. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I will try harder then ever.