Amazing that we actually live in a world with people who think it's worse to call evil, evil than it is to DO evil. Some days I just want to go back to bed and give it up.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The point is, some will believe it is manditory, some will not. In this forum, I will certainly find more that believe it is manditory </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">sfdb, you are way too dramatic for me to take seriously.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> he is to be pities cause his life is being stolen
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">(and it is not worth my time quoting the rest of the crap that you are posting, it would take too long)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My purpose (already accomplished, and judgeing by her reactions to me, and melody, we have it pegged pretty accurately), is to hold her toes to the fire and if there is any chance she can fight off her naricssitic leanings, being firm is what she needs. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you have accomplished nothing here.

however, i must admit, i am rather curious, what is the state of your marriage now???

BT, i would not waste my energy responding to him. don't worry, i am strong enough to not be bullied by him. He is very black and white. Both he and melody are jumping to conclusions that they feel are 100% right on the money about me. I have no reason to want to try to convince them otherwise.

fl...however, i must admit, i am rather curious, what is the state of your marriage now???

sufdb...I am divorced. If part of your curiosity is whether that had anything to do with telling the truth...it did not...we divorced for other long standing conflicts that could not be resolved. So I cannot offer any direct experience for or against telling personally...my issue is more about the right of each of us to determine our own lives....something you are enjoying for yourself, but denying to your H.

fl...you have accomplished nothing here.

sufdb...If you mean re yourself. You don't understand my goal...that being to confront a narcissitic behaviour. One can claim ignorance in life choices, and be a legitmate excuse, even if wrong. You won't be able to do so, you have been exposed to the truth, and willingly reject it...so yes my goal has been accomplished....the secondary goal of many posters (including myself) is the greater audience, folks who will be influenced by the truth, and that of course is unknown, but an airing of the issue is what is important, so that goal has been accomplished. If you mean not accomplished because you are going to do whatever you want for you...not your H...that sure says a lot about you, but that is not my goal.

fl...BT, i would not waste my energy responding to him. don't worry, i am strong enough to not be bullied by him. He is very black and white. Both he and melody are jumping to conclusions that they feel are 100% right on the money about me.

sufdb....You continue to persist...me me me....you don't even see everything you write is about yourself. You are not special, you are not exempt from the human race, indeed stealing someone elses life is kinda black and white, just like killing someone. The benefit of the doubt you were given was in your fear and confusion you couldn't see the truth, or the ethical requirements, you are subject too....instead more and more you are revealing the mindset of a narcissist...frankly I find you fascinateing, it is hard to understand such a mindset....Doesn't make you a bad person, but you are dangerous in relationships because you are totally driven by what you want.....you have no right to decide anything for your H, yet you steal his self-determination, and fuss about how you know best, so it really is ok, cause it is for him....

fl...I have no reason to want to try to convince them otherwise.

sufdb...of course not. Nor will you have much luck convincing me I can fly by flapping my arms. But I am content, I did right by you, you know the issue, and you know you are contemplateing a lifetime of deceit....you are no longer ignorant...the issue is whether you are a narcissist or not. If not you will tell, if you are you won't (unless you percieve an advantage to doing so), and it is just your H bad luck he married a user.

Dear sufdb.
Your nasty overture of words will NEVER get the results you are seeking;
being confession to BS from the WS.
The Bible says: "Harsh words stir up anger and gentle words calm wrath."

I think well-meaning people's words of advice, sometimes come off as bitter love busters...no compassion whatsoever!

It reminds me of the fable when the wind tried to get the man to take off his coat and the harder and stronger it blew, the tighter the man wrapped his coat around him but the sun shone gently and lovingly upon the man, and he WILLINGLY and GLADLY took off his coat...

That is the goal at the MB, for the person to willingly do what needs to be done in their marriage guided by God and fog-cleared choices.

Sometimes as I read 'advice' here, it is almost like the BS and WS want every marriage to suffer the punishment & grief they had to endure; no reprieves allowed. (Like not telling.)

With love and caring for EVERYONE here.
Julie

great, then you can stop posting now

bt...Your nasty overture of words will NEVER get the results you are seeking;
being confession to BS from the WS.
The Bible says: "Harsh words stir up anger and gentle words calm wrath."

sufdb...I already got what I was seeking, as has everyone eles, that is a presentation of a point of view....nor was it "nasty", it was civil and tough, the way I like it, both giving and recieveing. I remind you that God had plenty of harsh things to say when necessary as well....the point of the passage you referenced was not to be gratuitiously offensive, which I am not....

bt...I think well-meaning people's words of advice, sometimes come off as bitter love busters...no compassion whatsoever!

sufdb...They can, but this thread has been a sequence, you have just commented on the end result of interractions with one who has demonstrated an unwillingness to be truthful, and a cart load of excuses to justify stealing her H self-determination...that is worthy of tough comments.

bt...It reminds me of the fable when the wind tried to get the man to take off his coat and the harder and stronger it blew, the tighter the man wrapped his coat around him but the sun shone gently and lovingly upon the man, and he WILLINGLY and GLADLY took off his coat...

sufdb...Others have been shining the sun, maybe they will have some luck. But if the coatwearer has psychological issues and think the coat is protecting them, and refuses to remove it...they will have a heatstoke and die, so one might as well tell them that is strong language as a last effort to save them from themself.

bt...That is the goal at the MB, for the person to willingly do what needs to be done in their marriage guided by God and fog-cleared choices.

sufdb...no argument there...and one would hope a person is willing to be ethical...which was my point, this is ethics....not situational.

bt...Sometimes as I read 'advice' here, it is almost like the BS and WS want every marriage to suffer the punishment & grief they had to endure; no reprieves allowed. (Like not telling.)

sufdb....??? You consider a lifetime of deciet a good thing blessedtime? Or have I misunderstood you. Tell me, how can anyone ever make stealing someones life ok, a reprive? That is the only issue on the table....either we all have a right to self-determination or we don't....if we do, then there is no excuse or reprieve for someone who steals that right from another...true?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FinallyLearning:
<strong> great, then you can stop posting now </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Fair enuf (unless you, or someone else posts to me I guess), I have said what needed to be said, and have no desire to be tiresome, good luck.

<small>[ February 27, 2004, 11:39 AM: Message edited by: chris37 ]</small>

I gather from the posts here which indicate telling the BS about the betrayal is OPTIONAL, that the only reason not to tell the BS is because it is EASIER for the WS.

Well, of course it IS easier on the WS if they never tell their betrayed spouse. But EASIER does not equal RIGHT. Many times doing the right thing is very, very hard. But, as I tell my children, once the consequences of your sin are dealt with you'll be a better person for choosing the right path.

What kind of person will you consider yourself in 2, 5, 10 years if you hold this secret to yourself? It is so much better for you if you get it out there and DEAL with the consequences NOW rather than let it eat at your soul for years. It seems easier now, but it isn't.

I held the secret of my PA for several years. H knew of an EA, but didn't know the extent of the A. He never actually asked, but I knew that he was under a mistaken impression.... I justified letting believe it wasn't PA for years by saying there was no point in causing him further pain. Bull. When it got down to brass tacks, the truth was I didn't want him to be mad at me or hate me. No one likes to admit they did something so awful.

HOWEVER....several years ago MB posters who were straight shooters - like sufdb - made me realize I wasn't EVER going to be healed until WE (H and I unified) dealt with the truth. They were so right. When I confessed, H was very hurt (as I knew he would be) and even cried. But then he amazed me by appreciating my honesty and courage. The flood gates of communication were opened. It's been an awesome journey ever since. True healing and restoration began the day I admitted my own deceit and asked for forgiveness and mercy.

I wish you happiness and peace, FL. I know this is hard, but choosing to do the things that are hardest ultimately brings the most blessing to us.

Lori

That was a nice message 'at peace' and your words of experience spoke volumes.

You tried withholding but yes, your truthfulness brought on true healing.

So again, it is up to Chris and Finally Learning whether to tell.

For total healing it seems to be the only way, for partial healing, a person can carry the toxic secret, in their hearts, to their grave.
Love, Julie