Hi everyone, My husband is an alcoholic who I always thought was my best friend . He works long hours at his job so we weren't seeing much of him as a family and then when he was home there were always things to discuss with the kids, bills etc and we had so little time together many days our discussion never went passed the problems. Also I could see that he was getting too close to one of his co workers, spending hours on the phone etc, also they worked together alone 3 shifts a week. I kept begging him to take some time away with me to chill but I guess all he heard was "I need something else from you" So he started an affair with his co worker. About 3 weeks into the affair he confessed to me, and he thouroughly expected me to throw him out. Well, I took one look at him and knew that I wanted to forgive him. You see this was merely another symptom that he was trying to destroy his life which had become so out of control due to the alcohol. The problem is he has ended the affair but he continues to work with her. She has left her husband and tells him(my husband) she loves him(she was in an abusive relationship and is very needy) My husband has always been very kind hearted putting himself out to help other people often at the expense of time with his family, time for himself and his own health. So he has no real healthy boundaries. He admitted the other day they have been out for a beer in a group with others after work and that he has kissed her a few times since he "ended" the affair and that it was no big deal. I told him it was a big deal and reminded him he was married. Whenever he talks about her the best he can say is that he still has feelings for her ,that he feels sorry for her, but that there are things about her that are starting to bug him. When he talks about me he states that he really does love me and when I ask him if he goes and gets a beer with her , gets horny and comes home and uses me he says"No, you get me hot" This is quite alot for him to say as he has never been that verbal with me about stuff like that instead of telling me how wonderful he thinks I am he tells other people and I hear it from them. He also tells me he no longer tells her he loves her. He is in a fog now due to the alcohol and he just started counseling for that this wek. His counselor told him he reallly needed to stop drinking before the fog would lift and he would be able to make other life choices with clarity. Unfortunately this makes me feel as though I am being put on the same level after nearly 10 years of marriage with this woman. My husband states now he knew he loved me when he married me but he wonders if part of the reason he did it was because he was afraid to be alone. He needs to find out where his heart is and he needs to quit drinking to do that. I told him I would be behind him 100% of the way with all that except that I wasn't going to put up with him dating,and kissing another woman. He told me he wasn't making any major life decisions right now until the fog clears, and I told him if he was dating her then he was making a major life decision because I wasn't putting up with that. He agreed to stop with that but then tonight he tells me he is lending her his truck so she can move(she already has one of our cell phones and rang up a big bill this month because her husbaand took her cell phone away because she had such a big cell phone bill (DUH!) and my husband felt sorry for her) I wonder who's gonna feel sorry for me and our kids? So now I'm supposed to come home tomorrow after I drop the kids off at school and see her car in my driveway!!! Oh, what an excellent tire slashing opportunity if only I was the type! My problem is this ..he keeps trying to get me to throw him out I think because one then he won't have to take complete ownership for what happened and two because I think he feels he doesn't deserve me at this point. I don't want to drive a wedge in between us before he gets his head clear of alcohol and drive him to her but I know I have to set limits on how far I can let this woman intrude on my life. I have asked how she is doing because I'm sure it has been hard on her too, but maybe that was a mistake. What next do you think he'll ask me to cook her dinner because he feels sorry for her? I have told him he really can't be friends with her and shouldn't be working with her. His friend has told him the same thing. however since his mind is so clouded and he hasn't really made up his mind if he wans to be married, single or with her I feel uncomfortaable pushing him in that direction right now, although I realize the depth of possible destruction if he doesn't, but ultimately the decision would be much better if it came from his heart. I have considered calling his counselor and discussing it with him so he has my input as well but I don't know if he would be able to talk with me without having to divulge the fact that I called him. I look at my husband and know that he is very lost rihgt now. I have every hope that he will be back, but I also know that the balnce is very delicate right now.I have the solace of knowing that although we both met at a difficult time in our lives that the activity we shared was one that gave us both strength, so it wasn't like we found each other sitting in a bar drowning our sorrows. I should add that I am not a drinker, I will have an occasional one or two drinks, but that is definitely my limit and there are times when I have found 2 drinks to be above that limit. I also recognise the fact that my husband may actually still be sleeping with this woman which is just tota <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> lly disgusting to me on so many levels, and may be telling her the same thing he is telling me, that he feels sorry for me after all the years we have spent together, and he just wants to let me down gently, but honestly I don't think he's got it in him to keep up the lies . Also he looks me straight in the eye and tells me things now where as when he was deceiving me he would get all defensive and look away. Anyway, what should I do? How strict should I be with the boundaries right now? Thanks, Reeccarachel P.S. Our time together is very limited, maybe 5 hours of alone time per week compared with the 36 to 48 hours they work together a week.

rebeccarachel,

first of all i really wanted to say, you are an EXTREMELY STRONG person. Your love for your husband is remarkable. Your ablity to look this from so many angles as admirable. I am sure you are going to get some great advice from people who have much knowledge on all this. I am not yet one of those people, I am too much in my own struggle right now to think i could give sound advice.

but i felt i could give you moral support by pointing out how strong you are. i would have to imagine that maybe you don't always feel that way. I think your husband is extremely lucky and I think you are going to be able to help him get his life back on track. I think he shows signs of wanting to get back on track. I hope you are able to hang on to your love for him and to the belief that inside of him, although a bit lost at the moment, is great love for you too.

Thank you so much for your reply and support. It made me cry, not so much because it made me sad because it didn't, but because if felt good to know that my strength,(which I do feel alot of the time, but I do spend a great deal of time praying and I certainly recognize that is not my strength at all, and sometimes I feel I have none left so I pray again) hope and love for my husband show in my words, and that the love he has for me is still visible through all the fog. Thanks I hope all goes well for you in your journey away from all this pain.

you are welcome. i am surprised someone else has not yet offered you more concrete advice. Have you been reading the articles here? I would think if you can do Plan A as much as possible while he works on getting out of A fog as well as alcohol fog, that would be your best route. You just need to also make sure your bank does not empty out. you therefore need to put into place the boundaries that are manditory for that to not happen.

this post will bump up your topic again and hopefully someone else will be here to give you more advice.

P.S. i saw your reply in my post, i am going to post response there as to not muddy up your topic.

Hi Rebecca..

Please try and break your future posts up a little more in paragraphs so it's easier to read.

How long have you and your H been M? How long has he been an alcoholic? Is this his first time in treatment for alcohol abuse? What is his childhood background? What kind of M did you have pre drinking and pre Affair?

In addition to counseling for his drinking, he needs to be in regular IC. I would also recommend you call the Harley's for a phone appointment.

I would also insist upon NC for your H and OW. Recovery isn't really possible without this. Has the A been disclosed to your children, their co-workers, her H, families, etc?

Right now your H is being a cake eater, he will do so as long as you allow it.

Have you read all the MB concepts on this site? Have you read any of the books like, Surviving an Affair, Not Just Friends, Torn Asunder, etc.

Has your H read here or any of the books? Is he willing to do so? Does he acknowledge he has problems?

Sorry for so many questions. Give us some more background and we will try to help.

Hi Everyone,
Sorry for the time lapse in my replying but I have been painting my living room and the computer was unplugged for a good part of three days.
To answer some of your questions... My husband had his first drink at the age of about 10.He has been abusing something or other since then although for the past ten years mostly alcohol and occ pot. When we first got together I was under the impression that he was trying to quit but it never really happened and by then I was hooked. He is a kind generous man (to a fault) and he always made me feel secure in his love until recently.
Our love was first a friendship which grew into love and our strongest bond has always been our friendship.
Although I neverreally appproved of his drinking and could see he had a problem with it I never really pushed the issue. Ialso never bought him alcohol unless he specifically asked me topick him up something. I told him I thought he was finding enough on his own.
It became an issue for me when he stared drinking around the kids with a friend and I thought setting a very bad example as well as putting the kids in danger. This is when he started to "buck" me in other ways. I noticed he became overly friendly with other women and kind of just threw it up in my face.
I would love it if he and the OW had NC for life but right now I sense if I push the issue toomuch it may backfire on me. I always think it's better for someone to make these decisions on their own, then when they look back they can say that ws my decision not to be with or see her because I decided I wanted to work on my marriage.
He is seeing a counselor right now who is going to be working with him on major life decisions. Although this is extremely painful for me I want to know if he chooses me and our family it is because that is where his heart is and not because he felt obligated to do so.
I realize he may not know where his heart is right now so I just am offering my lovve and support as well as trying to get him to establish some healthier boundaries with this *#@* OW(sorry a moment of painful realization). I figure if he didn't love me enough to stay with me before all this he will after I stick with him through all this!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I want to get this post back to the top.

I am hoping some more experience people can give her some good advice. I really don't feel very qualified here but she very much needs advice.

Rebeccarachel, tell us more about where things stand right now...

Is your H is AA? Is he really commited to stopping his drinking as his IC has suggested?
Is he commited to IC?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You see this was merely another symptom that he was trying to destroy his life which had become so out of control due to the alcohol. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i think you are absolutely right.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So he has no real healthy boundaries </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">he needs to learn to get some!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She has left her husband and tells him(my husband) she loves him(she was in an abusive relationship and is very needy)
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">not good!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Whenever he talks about her the best he can say is that he still has feelings for her ,that he feels sorry for her, but that there are things about her that are starting to bug him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">that is good <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ..he keeps trying to get me to throw him out I think because one then he won't have to take complete ownership for what happened </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">don't do it

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> he is lending her his truck so she can move </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">did that happen?

hang in there!!!

My husband is seeing his IC three times a week. He is definitely commited to go to that.

He went to his first AA meeting and wasn't sure it was for him. I think the spiritualty thing made him uncomfortable as he has kind of lost his faith in everything lately, maybe so much so that this is something he is really not ready to face, more so than other things.

He did lend her his truck and he actually helped her move but he was very careful to have other people around. There were 2 or 3 other men there with him, and one other woman I think. He called me before and after he went, and although I obviously did not like letting him go I appreciated his being honest and careful about it.

He did not go to work the other night and so we had him at home for parts of 3 days in a row. Even though he is quite down, it was wonderful just to have him want to be there.

We have been talking alot esp when the kids are not around or when we are on our cell phones.

Things seem to be moving slowly in a positive direction, thanks for the encouragement!

Rebeccarachel,

i am glad to hear things are moving in the right direction for you.

When I asked about AA you said
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think the spiritualty thing made him uncomfortable as he has kind of lost his faith in everything lately, maybe so much so that this is something he is really not ready to face</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What do you mean by that stmt? Is he still drinking? I have no idea to what extent his drinking problem is but I do know, the only way to solve that problem is to NOT DRINK. Easy for me to say, but I'm sure it may be very hard for him to do. The question is, is he wanting to stop?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> His counselor told him he reallly needed to stop drinking before the fog would lift and he would be able to make other life choices with clarity. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Does he agree with his IC that he needs to do this? this goes for alcohol and any other drugs, like pot. How many days has he been alcohol and drug free?

I think the way he handled the move was great and shows you he is trying.

Are you in any marriage counsoling? You are in such a tough spot right now, it seems like you are just stuck in a waiting game but I really believe the way you act during this time is crucial (which is why i really wish some other experience folks would step in here!!!)

take care, keep posting here, i am definitely listening!!

Karen

Rebeccarachel,

I read your post and several thoughts went through my mind.

First, is that you may not be aware of this but the Harley's won't consider doing marriage counseling with a person still in the middle of an addiction, and yes alcohol is one of the addictions they are talking about. I believe there is a reason for that, and that is the addiction overwhelms any efforts or work that is done.

So part of me wants to say, back off, and make him face and deal with his addiction to alcohol. Your chances of good progress are low until he addresses this major issue.

My next thought is that your original post spent most of its time making excuses for your H. He doesn't seem to be confused at all. He wants to drink, have you and family in his life, and a girl on the side. He seems to be accomplishing that pretty well.

You are the one that is confused and here is where I think some reading and counseling will help. YOu seem to think that by covering for him and making excuses for him, that somehow you will win him over. I don't think so. Your H doesn't have many if any boundaries, but the question is where are yours?

So my response to you would be to stop worrying about him, and step back and look at yourself. WHAT DO YOU WANT OUT OF YOUR LIFE? I don't mean to be loved. I mean specifically what do you want, where do you want to be, what do you need from a husband, where are your boundaries and how are you going to accomplish these things. ONce you have that sorted out, then perhaps you can decide about H's role in this, and you can then offer him concrete choices in behavior, support, and being with you.

If you set boundaries (well considered boundaries) it might help him set them, but first he has to confront his alcoholism. His addiction is NOT helping and it is hurting you and your marriage very much.

The sad but true fact is that a nice well meaning person, can become addicted to something and really mess up their life and the life of those around them with a smile on their face.

So please think about this and really consider counseling for yourself. Your H is not confused, he is getting what he wants. You need to focus and become clear on what you want and what you will tolerate.

I hope something I said helps. Those are my thoughts anyway.

God Bless,

JL

FWS is 15 years sober, but his AA friend thought the A was part of his addiction. MC even thought he might be a love addict.

Unfortunately, your WS has not hit bottom. Apparently, Plan A does not work for addicts. It just enables their behavior without anything changing.

You will have to decide if you can wait for him to work on his recovery. In your case, this includes the A. I managed to stay with FWS for 3 months before I started asking him to leave. He could not end the A. Finally, something clicked and he went cold-turkey with the A, just like he did with alcohol so many years ago.

I would recommend that you decide on a timeframe for Plan A. Maybe just a couple of weeks or a month, then go to Plan B. He will be a cake-eater until he gives up drinking. The thing is can your love survive until then? Plan B will protect the love that you have for him.

BTW, my IC saw the same kind of strength in me. She was worried that I was too strong. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

RR,

As I see it, you have two focuses - one is the OW and the other is the alcohol. The OW is a distraction for what the real problem is, but more emotionally toxic for you, so that's where your focus tends to go.

Basically there are two choices.

1. Continue to be an enabling doormat for a man who is so thick in a fog that he chooses to stay in, and who uses you to prevent him from feeling any real social, emotional, mental, or moral consequences for his behavior. If you don't cushion his fall completely, as doormat you automatically get the blame. You also don't have any claim on him for having your emotional needs being met, because hey - the world revolves around him and his foggy addicted drama.

2. Take the blame for ending the marriage. Get healthy for yourself. establish boundaries. Understand that his blame is about him, not about you and you no longer take the rantings of a drunken adolescent-interrupted personally. Ever had a child yell at you, the parent, "I hate you!"? Just remember, you didn't choose to end your marriage. You chose to end dysfunctional motherhood to a child that needed to grow-up.

I recommend "THE FOUR AGREEMENTS" by don Miguel Ruiz. It's as valuable and important as "BOUNDARIES" by Cloud and Townsend for a woman married to an addict.

Now you could stay entirely focused on the OW and ignore the real elephant in the living room (Think OW on television pseudo doctor ad - I'm not a real pig, I just play one in RR's life! oink!) but then you're still engaged with the drama. Learn how to disengage from your husband's dream of h*ll. (FOUR AGREEMENTS)

***************

RR, As an aside, I chose an altered form of Choice #1 with my spouse a few years ago. He posts sometimes on Emotional Needs. He tries really hard. But after 3 years of non-spousal support in the financial sector, and my credit (along with his) being trashed twice in the ten years that preceded my personal moment of truth back in January of 2000, I set in motion a plan with my S-Anon sponsor (like Al-Anon, only specific to my husband's particular addictive bent), that I would have a series of gates that would lead me to eventually choosing Choice #2 that I listed above for you.

First I focused on getting my income improved.

Second, I re-built my credit.

Third, I started building assets in my own name.

Meanwhile, my husband has worked his own program. I don't parent him. Every once in a while when he starts setting things up to get stinking drunk with his drug of choice - and he acts so in-denial about what is so obvious to everyone else, I get a bit testy.

But this is what I know about myself 4 years later. My withdrawl from managing my husband's addiction-behaviors has allowed me to grow in these other areas, that should I have to exercise choice #2, I can do it with minimal consequences on myself and my son.

And it appears that my husband is gaining skills that he will actually be able to provide financial support independent of my income here in the next three months.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Rebeccarachel:
[QB] He went to his first AA meeting and wasn't sure it was for him. I think the spiritualty thing made him uncomfortable as he has kind of lost his faith in everything lately, maybe so much so that this is something he is really not ready to face, more so than other things. [QUOTE] </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If it weren't the spirituality thing it would be something else that made him uncomfortable. He doesn't want to get sober, so he'll seize on any feeble excuse to not straighten up.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There's nothing to keep you from going to Alanon and helping yourself. You know what Alanon is? It's for family members of alcoholics. It will help you. Look in the Yellow Pages for a chapter. Ask if they have any child care available for the members, or find a sitter.

Your kids are learning from you. It isn't the things we say that teach them,it's the things we do.

Hi rebecca,

Well I have read all the responses to you abd you have received good advice IMO.I agree that your WH is being enbaled and your bounderies,if there are any at all,aren't confining enough.Like JL asked,what do YOU want out of this relationship? It seems to be all about WH even to the detriment of your own livelyhood.He doesn't want anything to change,things are pretty comfy for him I would imagine.And your kids are,unfortunately,already affected by this situation at home.

O

Well, that was a slug in the stomach!

First of all, I never said my husband was still drinking and smoking pot,he hasn't had a drink in ... it'll be 2 weeks this coming Mon.

I said his spirituality was something he didn't want to face right now, meaning his belief in God. He has always had alot of face in God, and now he doesn't have much faith in anything including himself.

For those of you who think my husband is getting just what he wants, I don't know any human being who would want to go through what my husband has been through lately, all the emotional and physical pain, the guilt over the pain he has caused, the physical withdrawel from the alcohol, the emotional issues from the past(including facing the death of his father at the age of about 15) that are surfacing like waves since he never dealt with them.

Also, I said he wasn't sure AA was for him. I never said he was not going to couseling. He is seeing his counselor quite frequently, he has suggested 3 times aweek and my H is willingly complying.

For those of you who think I should just dump my husband and run, now why would I want to do that when we are finally talking about the issues and when my husband is finally learning to recognize and look at them? But I guess that's what marriage is all about these days isn't it? As soon as things get rough run right out the door.

A woman i used to work with gave me some awesome advice. She said sometimes a marriage is 50-50, but not often, and sometimes it's 30-70, and sometimes it's something else. Right now I recognize my marriage is about 99-1 but there's been many times when my husband has pulled much of the weight in our marriage.

Like I told my H I didn't just sign up for the good times I signed up for the bad times too,remember, for better or worse?

For those of you who want to know what I want out of my life, this isn't about me. My husband is the one who has the disease of Alcoholism, not me. I have a job which for the most part I enjoy, and can quite nicely support myself and a child or two with, I have my own fledgling business which I love. I have a strong religious background which has given me much strength and support, and I have alot of awesome friends that have been right there for me. I'm not doing anything for my husband that I wouldn't want him to do for me.

He's sick , he's hurt and he needs help.

I recognize he needs to stop working with the OW, and this is a very unhealthy boundary for both of us. However if you check DR Harley's advice you will notice that although an A should end abruptly with NC for life, just because it doesn't doesn't mean you should walk away. I plan on seeking the advice of my IC that I see 1x week on how best to approach that because I just don't know. I have my time table, people, and I will not allow it to continue much longer, but who of you have never resented something someone has forced on you, yet known in your heart if you had made the move on your own a few days or weeks later you would have been much more firm in you conviction?

Look forward to your replies.....

Rr,
You mentioned that you already had a time table in mind.
Would you mind sharing what/when that is & if there are seperate time tables for the different issues of an A and the drinking/substance abuse?

Thanks

Rebeccarachel,

I am so glad you posted and even more glad that you are looking forward to replies (as in not giving up on this board!!) well, we finally got some replies, but I was worried about some of them.

two things worth keeing in mind: 1. We had a lack of information here, that is great that he has been free of alcohol and drugs for 2 weeks!!!!! 2. there are many hurting people here.

i am 10 min late for a meeting. i'll check back in later.

Karen

Yes, absolutely there are different time tables for the EA my husband obviously has going on and the A problem. I've told him I don't care how long it takes him to get through the A issue, I guess you never really get through that one you just keep going day to day.


However, I have also told him that the issue regarding whether he wants to stay married and his contact with the OW is a seperate thing as far as I am concerned and needs to be addressed in the near future. I have no set time table in my head, but when the time comes I will know. I'm thinking a few weeks maybe a month tops, but I don't know. I guess as long as I feel we are moving forward in a positive direction, I won't give up within that time frame at least. He is still spending time on the phone with her after work but I have been keeping tabs and the longest conversation has gone from 1 hour to less than 15 min. There have been other little signs too, that he is moving away slowly.

I do get confused how to handle it with him when he is working with her. I told him last week to only call me when she wasn't around, and I recognize that when he is with her isn't the time to get into a lenghty discussion/arguement about it, any suggestions?

Sorry about the spelling errors etc but I have not been very good about proof reading this.

And yes, FL after the last batch of posts I almost set up a "More harm than good" boundary with all of you and ran from the Discussion Forum, but I did recognize the lack of info played a big part in all the responses....

Gotta run, I have a coffee date....with my friend..

rebeccarachel, i hope your coffee date was nice <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

i need a clarification here...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Yes, absolutely there are different time tables for the EA my husband obviously has going on and the A problem. I've told him I don't care how long it takes him to get through the A issue, I guess you never really get through that one you just keep going day to day.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">in the above does "A" stand for affair or alcohol.
I am thinking you meant alcohol. in this discussion forum A always stands for affair so you will want to make sure that is how you use A too.

you also referred to thing your H obviously has going on as an EA (emotional affair). I thought it was not just emotional but had been physical too. are you saying, although there was a PA you think that is not currently happening, it is just the emotional part of the affair that is still ongoing?? i really hope that is the case.

this stmt worries me:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> There have been other little signs too, that he is moving away slowly.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">address those signs as lovingly as possible.

i think he willingness to stop the alcohol/drug addition is awesome and not a simple thing for him to do if he has been using since he was 10. i think you should totally stand by him through this struggle. i can only imagine how hard it is for him to tackle his demons. I think it is wonderful that he is open to healing!!

i do think you going to alanon could benefit you, it might be something you want to consider. but you also mentioned you go to IC 1x week and i assume you C knows all about your H's issues so maybe that is the way to leave it.

it seems to me like you should follow plan A (have you read much on this site?) i assume you know i am the WS not a BS like youself, and that my H does not know about the As. I think plan A is meant for BS to use to help WS get out of fog associate with As. At this point, I seem to be using plan A to help heal my marriage in general.

overall you sound very strong and determined to do all you can to save your marriage and you also shows signs of knowing you can make it on your own if you have to. you are in a great spot in my opinion.

lets see what others say too

RR,

I was going to write a fairly detailed post to try and help you see what you are doing - what you have control over...

But I think it would be more effective if you detailed that out from your three previous entries on this thread.

If you have the courage to face what you must face to turn the corner on this marital crisis, then please print out this thread and focus on your posts. Take a highlighter marker and just line through all the statements of what he says and does. Then get another highlighter color and mark through all the things you do in response.

Bonus points: Take a third highlighter color and on your second entry on this thread, mark through every statement where you deny the severity of his behavior, or make excuses, or allowances. Compare that entry to your first entry - notice the difference?

My previous post was not to punch you in the stomach, but to show that you have some choices. NEVER did I say you have to divorce your husband. But if you've ever worked math, if you change one part of the equation, you have an impact on the other parts of the equation as well. So if you only have power to change from an enabler who lives in reaction to the drama of an addict who is suffering from a terribly debilitating illness, to someone exercising choices and boundaries in their lives, the nature of the entire marriage changes.

See, the cure to alcoholism and affairs is similar: abstinence, sobriety, spiritual growth and maturity, then amends, and living life well. But the addict has to exercise the CHOICE to take the medicine.

The cure for him is the same medicine you must take - that is, to exercise choice that you will no longer obsess about his behavior, his OW, his sickness. But that you will live to take care of your family, your children, and to have healthy boundaries so that his illness doesn't spread to you. It's infectious - so highly infectious that you don't even know you've got it. That's why you took offense to what I wrote.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.