He left so many messages that my voice mail pooped out after the 6th and said try again later.

I wrote down the 6 I heard, but won't bore you all with them now. Tomorrow is going to be a testing day. It's a teacher's conference, and my H is actually sucking it up and going. I will be in a place with my H, OM, and a previous sort of OM, not to mention one of H's EA almost PA girls. But I refuse to back down and not go to an event I am entitled to go to as a professional. Last year my H hid at home, and I went as did the other players I just mentioned. I will take the high road and avoid everyone. BUT this will be very wierd, many, and I mean MANY colleagues will see my H and I and wonder why we are not together.

My H's phone messages indicate that he is not ready or willing to give up on our relationship. I am afraid to tell people that we are divorcing still. It's going to be a testing day for me and for him.

Wish me well or say a prayer if you can. Above all, I pray my H is smart enough to not make a scene with OM after not seeing him for nearly 2 years. It would ruin my professional reputation permanently.

Sigh, even if I have a mental list a mile long of why I deserve to be with someone willing to treat me so much better than my H, there's still this tiny part of me that thinks it would be easier to work things out. But my heart doesn't exactly lean that way, my trust for my H is at an all time low.

Jen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> (Can you tell I'm up way too late and my rationality or ability to link ideas together in a logical fashion is weak?)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jen Brown:
<strong> He left so many messages that my voice mail pooped out after the 6th and said try again later.

Jen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> (Can you tell I'm up way too late and my rationality or ability to link ideas together in a logical fashion is weak?) </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">....yes I can tell......I was thinking that very same thing when I saw your post. As it is on the westcoast I am already up late. It is almost morning time in your area. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

{{{{{{hugz}}}}}}}

L.

Oh to heck with it, here are the messages.....I can tell he still truly does care about me.....but what do I do about it?????

1) I know you're immune to what I'm going to say, but I've honestly been trying so hard for 4 1/2 weeks, your rejection, it doesn't sit so well with me, we had too many good years and you're just chucking it all away, give me a call if you want, fair enough

2) I know you are not going to return my call, you're playing all independent woman and stuff, my plans for tomorrow are that I'm not going to hibernate - I'm (his name) and I'm going to do what's best for me. I'm not angry.

3) Hey this you ignore me attitude doesn't work for me, it's UNFAIR, I don't deserve this

4) See the arrogance of all this thinking I just want to bone you ...it's not it, not at all, clearly tell me if you have another guy...clear my guilt, I feel so guilty. I feel I'm responsible. Bye.

5) It's me, that sort of loser that you're married to. I'm going to tomorrow's event, if you are there if OM #1, OM #2, are there, it's not my problem, I'm gonna be there. I wish you had more respect for me.

6) Fair enough, put a restraining order on me, I just don't know how you got so callous, angry, bitter, I don't get that at all, and you don't get back to me.

7) Well I've left my name and #, and you don't get back to me, if you can't tell the way I feel by the way I kiss you and the way I touch you, it's kind of sad I think.

NOTE: I was not home at all while he called nine times and left 7 messages. I got home after all of it. I listened to it all, and then actually called him, told him I was out with some girfriends and he said you always have your girlfriends and said he didn't want to talk, he was in bed, goodnight.

Hmm...perhaps he really does believe he is trying, and maybe everyone labelling him as an abusive sexual predator is wrong? I wonder.

Jen

Orchid, it's only 1:30 am here, not quite morning time yet. But thanks for acknowledging me.

Jen

Jen Good Luck on today

Just reading those 7 msg's showed how manipulalive this guy turned out to be getting his way with you, blaming you, blaming OM, blaming him. Changing shifts until you grab one.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Hmm...perhaps he really does believe he is trying, and maybe everyone labelling him as an abusive sexual predator is wrong? I wonder. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you think this, then go ahead and read msg #7 again. Maybe he cares, but not in a healthy way. Is that the way you want it? Then stick to your guns.

Take care

<small>[ February 26, 2004, 05:28 AM: Message edited by: matilde ]</small>

Jen Jen Jen

There fact one of his messages including denying all he wanted to do was "bone" you tells me he is trying to convince you its not all about that SO HE CAN BONE YOU!

Sorry to be blunt but this is right up there with the guy setting you up by saying "its okay if your not ready...I want it to be right(now if I can con you into it is what he really is thinking <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )."

As you were given advice before Jen... PLAN B PLAN B PLAN B PLAN B PLAN B!!!!

Your ex is coming right out and saying he doesn't know what to do to show you he cares. Then give him his answers, and give him a plan B letter.

Each time he contacts you, give him a plan B letter.

If he STILL doesn't get it... then just call the police.

Karen

p.s. I don't know if he'll ever "get it". SHeesh! The number of LB's that are in those few messages alone... they just make my skin crawl! UGH! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Oh to heck with it, here are the messages.....I can tell he still truly does care about me.....but what do I do about it?????

1) I know you're immune to what I'm going to say, but I've honestly been trying so hard for 4 1/2 weeks, your rejection, it doesn't sit so well with me , we had too many good years and you're just chucking it all away, give me a call if you want, fair enough

2) I know you are not going to return my call, you're playing all independent woman and stuff, my plans for tomorrow are that I'm not going to hibernate - I'm (his name) and I'm going to do what's best for me . I'm not angry.

3) Hey this you ignore me attitude doesn't work for me , it's UNFAIR, I don't deserve this

4) See the arrogance of all this thinking I just want to bone you ...it's not it, not at all, clearly tell me if you have another guy...clear my guilt, I feel so guilty. I feel I'm responsible. Bye.

5) It's me, that sort of loser that you're married to. I'm going to tomorrow's event, if you are there if OM #1, OM #2, are there, it's not my problem, I'm gonna be there. I wish you had more respect for me.

6) Fair enough, put a restraining order on me , I just don't know how you got so callous, angry, bitter, I don't get that at all, and you don't get back to me .

7) Well I've left my name and #, and you don't get back to me , if you can't tell the way I feel by the way I kiss you and the way I touch you, it's kind of sad I think.


jen,

You want to tell me what those messages were about? EVERY message he left was very clear ...it is ALL ABOUT HIM! Can you not see that none of them was about you and what you need and want?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

NOTE: I was not home at all while he called nine times and left 7 messages. I got home after all of it. I listened to it all, and then actually called him, told him I was out with some girfriends and he said you always have your girlfriends and said he didn't want to talk, he was in bed, goodnight.

He reeled you in one more time....you called him back and he had the pleasure of cutting you off. I bet he went right to sleep with a smirky smile plastered on his face, knowing that he still has you to manipulate and jerk around. STOP returning those calls. STOP explaining where you are and what you are doing. You do NOT have to justify your actions and whereabouts to him. As long as you continue to do that...you are still ensnared in his manipulative trap. He poked you with a stick in every message he left...and you bit back. STOP that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Hmm...perhaps he really does believe he is trying, and maybe everyone labelling him as an abusive sexual predator is wrong? I wonder.

If you really believe that he is trying with those kind of messages, then you are doomed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

JMHO
committed

Thanks to everyone, especially commited, for interpreting my H's messages for what they really are, more of his attempt to manipulate me I guess. I forgot to mention one thing that you'd all of expected anyway, in that short phonecall after I told him I'd been out and missed his calls, he asked if I was going to come over there, and I said no, and then he had no interest in talking, wanted to sleep. I want so much more than this kind of poor treatment, and in nearly 2 years, he's been unable to give me even a glimpse of any better. Funny, he hasn't even bothered to ever ask what I want, I just often find myself trying to tell him. He's always telling me what he wants and needs. He is full of "me me me" and "I I I" messages as commited says.

I just pray that he is decent at our conference today, and doesn't try to push my buttons in front of other people, and doesn't try to make a scene with OM. I'm going to take the high road today though to be sure. The one encounter I'm most worried about is if/when H's former female best friend (who was a definite EA, who he claims attempted poor oral sex on him, but that was as far as they got) will think it's appropriate to talk to me. I plan to simply say to her, look, I know about what happened between you and my H on such and such a day, and I don't care to talk to you. Or rather, maybe I should just say, I don't care to talk to you.

Yuck, I guess I sort of deserve the tension I'm going to go through today b/c I was foolish enough to sleep with a colleague and H's BF. A little more penance again.

Jen

Jen

Jen,

Is there any way you can change apartments? Now that you have set your boundaries (something you haven't quite managed to do in the past) you are entering uncharted territory. Things might escalate and I think you would be better off away from him until some time passes.

At the very least, how about changing your phone #?

I know these may sound like drastic actions, but I am worried about you...

Jen

I agree with everyone that he is maniplating AGAIN!! But I would like to throw something out here.

What are the two main points of Plan B? One is to protect the love you have for your husband. And you admitted above that, even if a little, it is still there. I have found that Plan B hides away most of that love. You think it is gone, but it is just locked up. Right before my wife came to her senses, in the middle of Plan B, I felt like I had no feelings for her. That I was finally strong and ready to move on. But, in one night with her coming over and having two bottles of wine with me, I found that my feelings came rushing back.

The second part of Plan B is PAIN, PAIN, PAIN for the WS. Even after my wife came over that night, it probably took another 6 weeks before she could fully make the big move away from OM and back home for good. She tried cake eating. And each time she did, I shut everything back down...and went to NC. And immediately, her pain meter went off the chart. And each time I did this, the pain got worse for her as she realized she wanted to come home, but Iwas at a zero tolerance stage and ready to walk.

Now all that being said, I think you still love your husband. I think that love is well protected. You have eluded as much. I also KNOW that your husband is in pain right now. Truth is, HE DOESNT WANT TO LOSE YOU. Deep down, he really doesnt. but he isnt ready to go there...yet! He is still trying to cake eat and manipulate. And that you CANNOT allow.

So as Just Learning always says (it is steady as she goes for you." BBBuuutttttt...........

Topie has a point. There has to be a door. If this even has a possibility of working out, then he has to have a door to go thru. The PBL should spell it out. And then you ratify that daily. Example?

Okay. He has the PBL, and then does this voicemail crap again. You send another copy of the PBL. Then, he starts acting like a good boy and saying he is trying and wants to go to counseling, etc. You say in an email "Okay, if you are ready, I will go to counseling. But is the only place we will talk and interact, until my PBL has been met." You see, the PBL is a surrender document. He HAS TO surrender on your terms. At first, he will try to negotiate surrender. But there is no negotiation. So, you just keep increasing the pain. You keep NC. You keep going forward with the divorce stuff.

But, in any surrender, there has to be a place to meet, a place where the enemy can first try all of this crap, to try to negotiate. Once they try, then they realize it is surrender or else...and then they go back to their pain and realize "I really have no choice." This is why I say offer up the door of counseling together. Surrender negotiations. No other contact besides that. The counselor can keep the talks on the issues at hand. And he wont think that you have completely shut down any chance of this working out.

But, he cant sit there either. He cant go "well, we are in counseling, so I have time to cake eat. She'll still be there." No way. That's why, even though you are still in counseling, yo uare still prceeding forward with the divorce, still maintaining NC. This will increase his pain because he knows the clock is ticking, and he doesnt have much time.

Do you see what I mean? Plan B, even in the divorce proceeding phase. But, give him a door to go in and try to negotiate...a door where you can sit acroos the table and keep expressing "surrender or else." Where you can tell him that nothing changes until the PBL is met.

In His arms.

Jen,

I was just a bit concerned since we haven't heard from you since your conference?

Are you OK?

ayslyne

justexhausted, I'm not going to change apartments, my safety is intact and it's a LOT of effort to move. I will be moving to a new home or condo in the next few months anyway (I'm currently shopping for one), so why move twice.

Mortarman, I can see the point of the PBL, but as usual (so many people have tried to talk me into it), I don't think I have the desire to do one, at least at the moment.

ayslyne, no worries, I am fine, just a hectic couple of days. It was my birthday yesterday too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

The conference went okay. I saw my H and my 3 BILs, greeted and visited briefly with all of them. At the "wine down" my H turned into a bit of an idiot though, and tried to have some conversations with me, where he told me I was a very angry person and that I needed counselling, and that he was the best I'd ever find, I was the best he'd ever get, blah blah blah, did I want to come over and have sex (and I knew he was just asking to tick me off and try to get a rise out of me). I remained calm and disagreed with him. It was a little awkward when he tried to "visit" with some of the people sitting at the same table as me and he made an [censored] of himself (just arrogant and impolite really), but I made it clear to the people I was sitting with that didn't know we were divorcing that we were. One of them was someone from my staff, so hopefully now the rumour mill will get the word out so I don't have to make any announcements about my divorce.

My H's behaviour at the wine down just drives me further away from him. He is incapable of behaving kindly and in a friendly manner to other people it would seem. His arrogance comes out in any and everything he says. But really, IMHO, the arrogance isn't genuine self confidence, it's insecurity veiled by arrogant statements.

One stupid, stupid thing he did was approach the OM I worked with a few years back and had fooled around with on several occasions. Some of you may recall that I only confessed to that affair back in Nov. or Dec. of 2003. Well my H walked up to this man (at the end of the wine down, long after I'd gone home, and after MANY drinks on his part) and said to him, in front of at least one other colleague AND my BILs, "Just between you and my, my wife says you have a small youknowwhat." It got all sorts of "You're unprofessional" remarks out of that OM and his friend, and my H called me to tell me about all of it, a bit worried that he'd gotten himself into trouble. Although, when he called, I wasn't here, he left a message that was a LIE saying that OM had hit him, just to get me to call him back. I told him he made a stupid choice. When I was at that wine down, I even made polite chit chat with a woman on his staff that he had confessed to kissing at a staff party last month and acted as though I knew nothing, so as to maintain professional decorum. There's no point in getting into what happened with these people (OM or the woman he kissed) at a public event or at all really, it's not productive. He of course said something in regards to how he was struggling still with that confession of an A with that OM and that combined with the alcohol led to what he said. Oh well, his foolish choice. I just hope that's the end of it, a dumb remark, and that I don't hear from that OM or his friend that muttered on about professional conduct.

I am realizing that my H is clearly a hurting, confused, angry child who wants to and will likely play the lashing out victim for years to come. His choice. He can do that without me. His behaviour of the past 2 days just pushes me even further away and makes me wonder if he was really like this for years, but I overlooked it or was in denial. I am so glad that I am moving on to a life without him.

Jen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ February 28, 2004, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: Jen Brown ]</small>