Well, after an emotionally draining night Monday at Scouts with WH and the OW, and then MT yesterday trying to convince a fog-bound WH that having our boys attend Scouts with him and the woman they associate with the reason he left us, not being healthy for them, I am emotionally spent.

And that was one long sentence.

Anyway, I see no hope at this point. He is so far gone from me. I cannot believe any WS has ever found their way back after becoming this emotionally distanced from the BS, this lost to themselves.

The things he says! The things he thinks! WH cannot understand why it is hard for me to be in the same room with OW! WH equates it with him being in a business meeting with someone he doesn't like - be professional. The MT tried to tell him 2 times it was not the same. But I don't think he is capable of seeing anything besides his own self.

I guess what it comes down to is that I miss my H. I miss the man that used to think of me first, used to love me, hold me, make me feel safe.

And the worst part is that the person who did all those wonderful things is also the one who has hurt me the most that I have ever been hurt in my life.

And instead of coming back and saying how wrong it was and how much he loves me and wants to make it work, he says he doesn't currently, nor has he ever, loved me. He just fooled himself for 15 years. And now he knows the truth and can never go back to fooling himself.

So then I think the last 15 years of my life have been a lie and a waste. And that hurts his feelings, because he says he enjoyed that time. I guess the reason I regret that time is because I thought I was spending that time and investing myself with someone who felt the same way about "til death do us part" as I did.

But, he has changed his mind. He says he meant those vows and promises and commitments then, but not now.

Then what is a commitment? What is a promise? What is a vow? Until we don't feel like it anymore? I don't understand.

He is the one who taught me what love is. Unconditional, nonjudgemental, pure love. And now I don't have it from him anymore. It hurts.

I am hurting. I don't really have anything productive or original to say. I guess I was just posting my feelings since that is what I tell others to do when they are hurting.

Sorry for the downer post. Hopefully I'll feel better by the weekend, or next week. I was moving forward, and now I have fallen on my face.

Maybe I need someone to pick me up and dust me off and push me back down the path.

Amy

Poor Amy - It is awful to go through this. It is very painful to realize that the man you love has turned into this stranger. But that is what they do. Mine turned into a guy that I don't even want to be around.

It is useless to try to talk with them. They see the homewrecker as the best thing that ever happened to them. I think it is because they are getting their "fix".

However you are doing very well. You've been standing up for your boys. So continue on. Anyone with half a brain can see why this is so painful to you. Your H is deeply in the fog. He will not see what he is doing right now. It is unbelievable, but they are all the same.

Hang in there and don't give up. One of these days the fog will clear, and then hopefully you will still want him back.

Amy

What is it with the 15 year itch? My H have been together for 15 years too, he treated me nothing less than a princess. He too came to me 1/06 saying he was fooling himself and me last 15 years. That he never was in love with me, although he tried. He admitted to emotional affair, says it ended. I believe otherwise.

This "fog" is way too deep for me and I pray everyday that I will never get caught up in the "fog". I am TRYING to guide my H out of fog. It's so hard cuz we're never together. He works in transportation and is gone this time till 3/07. I have two little girls I am fighting for here.

I give you credit for not throwing up on OW.

Best of luck. Look attractive to your H when you see him, emotionally and physically. That's the plan I am on.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> all of us BS thinks the same way.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> funny huh?

Everything is everything
What is meant to be, will be
After winter, must come spring
Change, it comes eventually

Everything is everything
What is meant to be, will be
After winter, must come spring
Change, it comes eventually


I am a true beleiver in this. Change comes eventually.. so let's all hang on for the ride leaving this to the master of it all. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

LOVE YOU BABYGIRL!!!! ya'll keep me from fading away and die.. how can I ever repay.

SO I beleiver things will be on the FLIP SIDE for US.. maybe not today.. maybe not tommorow, but soon. SOON VERY SOON!

Good Morning Amy,

I too am sorry to hear that you're down.Just ride it out and you will probably feel better,or a little better soon.I usually do.

For me it was the "lucky" number 13,years married that is,that WH decided that he was ready to "start a new life" with the homewrecker.I felt completely abandoned and betrayed beyond belief.I equate it to a parent betraying their child.We entrust our hearts to our spouses like a child trusts their parents and it is the worst betrayal.Our spouses are supposed to care for us and make us safe and secure in our marriages."A soft place to fall" as Dr.Phil states.

You know,having a WH that wants to reconcile is NOT that rosey either.I have anxiety "attacks' sometimes thinking about trusting that philanderer again.I so much just want to cut him loose.So it's not easy on the recovery half either.If I actually even make it to recovery.I'm still not convinced my WH is true to his word.So I get to "look over my shoulder" for probably months and years to come if we do attempt to reconcile.Whoopee.I love knowing that I may be in for another crushing blow anytime in the future.UGH. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Anyway,what gives me strength each day at this point,besides my loving family,is that I have become strong enough(mostly through Plan B and prayer)to be able to say to WH "I'm outta here" if he continues to betray me.I have faced my fears,including the big D and it is actually a bit comforting.I actually like knowing that I do have an option to protect myself and my kids from someone who could continue to hurt/cheat on me.I don't have to stay with him if things get really bad.So in that sense,I could go either way when it comes to my WH.

Lastly,don't pay attention to the fogese/fogbabble by your WH.It isn't worth it.Tune him out when he starts in with the "I've been fooling myself for 15 YEARS"? Geeze.You know that's not true.And your 15 years was not a waste.It has hit a major bump in the road but you will get past this too whether with or without him.So, here I am,picking Amy up off the ground,dusting her off,big {{HUGS}} and gives a backpack full of care,prayer,and support for your journey,back on that path.OG then waves and smiles.You can do it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

O

<small>[ February 26, 2004, 09:29 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Believer -

Holy cow, that is the longest post I have ever seen from you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Thank you for your continued support. I am beginning to believe the better they were in marriage, the harder they fall in adultery. Sounds like our two were a lot alike in M. We'll both have to wait and see.

M -

Besides our children's ages, our statistics are frighteningly similar. Maybe there is something to that superstition about the year 13. That is not very comforting. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Harudah -

Thank you for your words. You are right. Change is not painless, and all things change. It probably hurts for the caterpillar to change to the butterfly. That is what my IC told me yesterday. She thinks I have turned into a butterfly, and I am looking at my wings, thinking, "Pretty and cool. I wonder what they can do???" So, I will let them dry for now until I gather my energy. My next step is to see what they can do. I actually went back to sleep last night, and overslept a bit this morning! YAY. I am feeling rested and better. Thank you. I love you, girlfriend.

O -

I love reading your posts, and I am so pleased you posted to my thread. I use some of the words you do, because they make me smile. Such as, Homewrecker, I love philanderer (but haven't actually used it yet), and "As the stomach churns" (I did site you as the originator of that last quote when I posted it on my other thread yesterday - you know, copywrite purposes and all that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ).

Anyway, thank you for your words. I don't really listen to his words, I am just discouraged that he is still in that foggy mindset. Because you are right, I still have the hardest to go through. Recovery. And even before that, I have to go through all the pre-Recovery stuff. Are we in recovery? Are you being truthful? Are you hiding things still? Blah blah blah . . .

Geez. I can't look at all that, though. I have to keep my head down, looking at my path that is right in front of me. And I cannot keep looking around. Keep my head down, follow my path, watch my instrument panel - right Believer? - and take it one step at a time.

My falling could just be from being emotional two days in one week, couldn't it? I'm not "falling off the wagon," am I? I know several people are struggling. I don't want to give up. I am just so tired.

Anyway, I am feeling better, and I will end my long-windedness right here.

Lots of love and hugs and support to all. Thank you so much. I feel like some of you are like family to me. Because most of my family doesn't understand what the heck I am doing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Amy

Hang in there Amy! I feel your pain! The advice I've been given is to take care of ME! Once you do that and show your H your confidence and ability to survive without him, he may come around. I think mine is.

I have also put total trust in God. He is showing me the way. My faith in Him is pulling me through, helping me to sleep at night. No more crying myself to sleep, no more crumbling and falling apart in the shower so my son can't see or hear me. God is carrying me right now, let Him carry you. . . You will find strength in Him. I never really knew that until now. It took me hitting rock bottom in my life to find God.

You are in my prayers.

And isn't unbelieveable how many spouses are cheating with people whose children are involved in sports or scouts together??? We put our children in these activities to help them build good character, and their parents are meeting other parents and destroying their families! Unbelieveable!!!!

You know, Nid, it is unbelievable. And sad. I think it is the situation of our world right now. So much work, so many activities, parents rushing here and there.

And before you know it, someone is lonely and vulnerable. And the other doesn't even realize. Heads are just in two totally different places.

I wish I had read a lot of these books before my marriage was in crisis. I definately would have made different choices. And my WH would have too, because back when he was my H, he listened to my ideas and concerns.

The slippery-slope of friendship between man and woman, from "Torn Asunder." Clear boundaries from "NOT Just Friends." All would have been helpful 6 months ago. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I, too, have turned to God. He is comforting. I was doing very well, even this last Sunday. I just had a lot of strength sucked out of me. And in my pity-party, I have refused to go to the source of my strength - the Lord.

My strength from Him is never exhausted, is it? All I have to do is ask for more. He has an unlimited supply.

Thank you, Nid. I needed to hear exactly what you just told me. Because He has carried me in his hand, when I couldn't stand. And He'll do it again when needed. I am going to go spend some time in His Word right now, before going to the gym.

God Bless! Amy

Amy, my IDAHO girl, from your IOWA friend...

And in my pity-party, I have refused to go to the source of my strength - the Lord.

This sounds SO much like me. I am a Christian, and so many times I've found myself doing the pity-party thing or having major anxiety attacks (gee, if you look at my threads, probably most days this week), and I just fall further, and furter...and then finally when I have nothing else, I remember I should pick up my Bible or go and pray. And then I feel that calm. Granted, the pain is still there, but for just a few minutes I can feel peace.

Why can't I feel like that all the time? Why do we always try so hard to figure it out ourselves before we turn to God and say "Help!". Wish I knew. Wish I was better at it.

You guys have all inspired me to keep going. I know I've had some rough days and I'm well aware there are more coming, but just when I get where I think I can't take it any longer, something changes and God gives me a day or a part of a day that is really good and really peaceful. He knows how much we can take and will never give us more than we can bear.

You remember that (and then remind me again when I'm falling to pieces, okay?)

((((( AMY )))))

Your WH is an idiot. It is a disease of our times. The germs are spread through the media ... "If you aren't happy, dump your life and be happy somewhere else" .... 'cept it don't work! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> The condition is not (usually) permanent .... and not (usually) fatal ...but Lordy, it sure makes you want to scrub him head to tail with a wire brush. Be honest now, wouldn't it just be so riiiight to scrub all d'em OW cooties off'a him with a wire brush!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

This idiocy will come to term .... with no interference from you .... but.... if you want to give that man a dose of penicillin for the "clap" he's got inside his head .... then MB plans are the medicine in your syringe.

Plan A .... usually a short one if you've been a good and decent wife .... 4-6 weeks.

Then, if he is still infected .... with the idiocy ... Plan B his (b)[censored]....

The pain is an awesome burdon. You've gotta be onehellofawoman to live through this with all your dishes unbroken ...

But the reward is large ....

Your integrity.

Something you get to keep whether or not your marriage survives.

This adultery idiocy makes one juicy mess out of their formerly adult brains. Their synapses get all unwired, and they are in a sort of neverland where the gravity no longer applies.

Disregard any garbage that spews from his formerly sacred lips. He is possessed .... and the fever cannot be spoken to with logic.

Plan A and Plan B are the medicine.

Love and hugs and kisses and prayers.

Pep

<small>[ February 26, 2004, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Pep -

That was one for the archives! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Can I have some of whatever you're havin' tonight?

Amy,

I didn't read your whole thread, but I just wanted to share something with you. I know this may not help but I hope it will give you an idea about fog and how people lose their sense of committment while in an affair...

This is part of a letter my wife wrote me after coming home for the second time. She left the day after she gave me this letter.

Husband, I don’t love you. I like you. You are a good person. I can laugh and have some fun with you but I don’t love you. My heart isn’t and hasn’t been yours. I have cared. I never believed that I would ever love or be loved the way I thought love was. I know now what it is like to really love someone and to be loved the same way.
I know you, the girls and other people don’t ‘get it’. But, it really isn’t for anyone else to get. I came back out of fear. Fear of the future not being as easy as it has been and fear of damaging and losing the girls. I don’t want to live in fear and I don’t want to live without the love that I have found and haven’t felt in my life since I was a little girl. I remember feeling that happy, accepted and complete but it has been so long ago. For some reason I didn’t think I was good enough to have that or that something was wrong with me so I couldn’t have it. But it did happen for me and I don’t want to lose it. He may not be perfect but I never expected you or anyone else to be perfect. All I know is I love him. When he is sick I want to take care of him. When he says or does something I don’t agree with I want to tell him about it and challenge his thoughts. I want to hear him laugh and see him smile.

Well, that about sums up that she is truly in love and can't live without this person... Guess what, she is currently in the process of moving out and going on her own. I saw her today and she said she was leaving OM and she didn't want him to know where she was moving to. I guess it wasn't true love afterall. There was no committment in this relationship. It has been almost 8 months since D-Day. It has not been a good time for me and apparently her either. I don't know what'll happen from this point on, but know that things aren't always as they seem. Keep your head up and have faith. I hope this helps a tiny bit......

Amy -

Hope you are hanging in there. I am. It is miserable, but soon things will turn around. Trust that.

Hang in there Amy the sun will return. It will either burn off the fog or light up your smile!

Dear Amy,

You have been out there helping others and so I'd like to send a {{{{cyber hug}}}} to you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Listen hon, those babbling froth out of your H's mouth is the same old stuff spewed out of many a WS. Imagine.....used material. One thing those WS' are just NOT original. LOL!!!

When your H says 15 years, ask him when....when did he start lying to you? When did those words of ILY lose their meaning? That way you will find out that you did not lose all the 15 years...... I asked my WS the same question and you know what? He could not give me a date or even an accurate # of years. That showed the babble up. I asked him when did he start lying to me and why. What did I do to deserve to be lied to like that? Of course he couldn't answer and that day I learned another lesson, how to throw babble back. I also learned NOT to take the WS at face value. I learned that the WS makes uncomfirmed statements just like a policitian. LOL!!!! I learned to make his babble hurt less.

Hope that helps. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

Everyone, thank you all so much. Everything that everyone said has helped me. I appreciate everyone taking the time to cheer me up.

I am hanging in here, with my plan, doing my own thing, improving myself. And just as WH babble is not unique, I know that my BS babble is not unique. I just posted about it anyway! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Orchid - I did ask WH how long I had been living a lie, and WH told me that even HE didn't know he had not loved me, until this "catalyst" - what we all here call the A - happened, and shown a light of truth and honesty on the reasons he was with me. WH was only with me out of fear, that he was afraid if he didn't marry me, he would never get another shot at marriage. So, he convinced himself and me and everyone else in our lives that he loved me. And now he knows he never did. Isn't that so sad for him?

So, he doesn't regret the past 15 years, because he had fun during that time. But, now that he has "woken up," he cannot go back to "sleep," meaning the way it was, because now he knows better. Even though it would make everyone happy, he is finally having the courage to stand up for himself. Blah blah blah.

You know, the OW dumped him when he told his mom and me about the PA and had a mental breakdown and moved out into an apartment. OW is dating an old boyfriend (WH and OW have decided to be just friends for now - they thought they were in love, but agreed to be just friends for now - you never know what the future will hold). I think I scared OW by threatening to expose them to the community.

So, he would rather have nothing, in his little hovel of an apartment, then come home. He still sees her at Scouts (her son is in his patrol - I am working on that one), and calls her and emails her. So, I guess he is still in love with her.

I am afraid he broke himself on the inside. I am afraid he has split his personality or something. I don't know. Is it "normal" for him to be going through all the WH stuff, when not even really involved with the OW? All he can do is fantacise about her. Which I'm sure isn't too hard with her old living room furniture in his apartment. Puke.

Anyway, sorry for the length. If you have any insight into the above, I would love to hear it - er, read it!

Thanks. Amy

He will probably have another "awakening" and realize that he really did love you all of these years.

My H still says he loves me and wants our marriage. However there is just one little problem - he loves the OW too.

Maybe I will look into moving to Utah. Is that the place where they can have two wives?

Hang in there Amy, you are doing fine.

Yes, Utah is the place to go for that type of thing. In fact, in southern Utah, on the border of, oh, whatever that state is below Utah, south of St. George, there is an entire community of polygamists.

AND, apparently, if you do not finish your domicile there, like leave off part of the roof or walls, you can get public assistance and live off the system forever, or until you finish your house. So, apparently, to my Grandmother's great angst, there are no finished houses in this community.

Then you WH would be the ultimate cake eater of them all. He would make WH's everywhere green with envy. He could set a new standard. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

OK, nevermind. You cannot move to southern Utah.

My WH actually thought he loved both me and the OW for a while. He found Polymory sites on the internet, and realized that is what he wanted. I said, "No way in he**." That was the beginning of the end for me. That's when him and his feelings and the OW went underground and stopped telling me stuff.

I probably could have handled a lot of things better than I did. But who is prepared for sh** like that???? Good grief.

Anyway, nice to hear from you this morning. I'll be in and out. I'm not feeling very inspired, so I have only been posting to people that I "know."

Chat at you later.

Amy

Just wanted to comment that my marriage was 13 years old, too, when this bomb hit. Matter of fact, we got in a fact the day after our 13th wedding anniversary and he left and went to her!

I remember asking if 13 was unlucky - I guess is is. We were together 17 years - he had broken up with the woman he's now seeing!!!