</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anyway, SonOfW mentioned how if he were my husband, he may not be able to continue being married to me as his trust would be destroyed.

As I mentioned, knowing that SonOf is a counselor, I felt strongly influenced by what he wrote. His message did tend to confirm my fears regarding the gravity of the situation.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">alegna

You can't assume anyone is anything on a message board....including claims I make. What validates someone being what they represent is when their post are consistent with what is routinely known when it comes to dealing with an issue.

Son may or may not be a licensed counselor. And if he is one he may or may not be a competent one. Not an attack on him just pointing things out. I may or may not know squat about childhood abuse. I may or may not be in a masters program for marriage and family therapy.

Since I didn't read his reply I hate to comment on it. But I find it hard to believe that any trained professional would automatically rush to judge on that severe of a level.

I mean they are bound by sworn oath to treat sex addicts, sexual predators, sex offenders among others. If they are trained that these types of persons can be successfully treated (odds are great but still) then why in the world would he throw in the towel on you because of one "make out" incident when you weren't even married.

Also Son could be a licensed therapist that doesn't necessary see eye to eye with some of the so called "norms" regarding therapy. Just like any health caregiver Son may embrace some aspects of treatment but not others. Not all doctors approach the same ailment the same way. One doctor may approach cancer with a holistic approach dealing with mind, body and soul. Besides conventional treatments he may also tell you to take certain supplements, make certain dietary changes and take up yoga. Another doctor may simply want to open you up and cut it out.

So Son may have one approach to what you posted while a colleague of his might have a completely opposite approach.

There are plenty BSs on this message boards who spouses never strayed before they were married. So premarital "make outs" are not a measuring tool for the likelihood of infidelity.

As to those who question the validity of statitistics regarding abuse/rape against women as being some feminist propaganda to be blunt they can kiss my hairy [censored].

Having volunteerd and currently interning at a shelter for battered and abused women it sickens me to see some say they don't exist or are merely puppets in someone's political agenda.

The really sad thing about that is the prevailing thinking among sociologist, pyschologist and criminal justice workers strongly suggest the KNOWN/REPORTED numbers are just the tip of the iceberg.

As you can tell by your own silence victims tend to not report tend to keep things hush hush. Just look at all the other posters here on Marriage Builders who admit that they kept the shame and pain secretly to themselves for years on end.

I look back at my wife's photos just before she met me and right after she was gang raped by her boyfriend and a bootcamp buddy and I see that same look she had 20 years ago in the eyes of most of the women in our shelter.

If you look real hard at photos of rape victims then compare them to photos of POWs or ones from WWII concentration camps you see they same hollow eyed empty look.

Hi again SDFR,

I know what you say is true. And I know how stupid it sounds to be so influenced by a random comment on a board. As I mentioned briefly earlier, I think my particular current vulnerability stemmed from the depression though. And my distrust of my own judgment.

And while I realize the remote likelihood of your being a 25 year-old hermit who lives in his grandmother's basement and lives vicariously through the moniker SDFR, I really doubt it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

The reason I have felt supported by you is that you've shown a remarkable amount of insight into my feelings. So I'll extend to you a bit of credibility. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

So SDFR, I thank you again, not only for the chat, but the links too! (And the books mentioned)

Thanks!
alegna

Actually I'm 26! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

But you've come to this conclusion because you got outside confirmation that what I was saying was consistent with the prevailing thoughts of known authorities regarding sex abuse or infidelity.

I geuss what I am saying until someone's post or thread is validated either by the undeniable logic of it or by outside scientific or academic sources take everything with a grain of salt.

And even then remember at one time the scientific community thought the world was flat and was too scared to challenge that myth.

Your doing good alegna hang in there and don't be so critical of yourself just try and gain a deeper understanding of yourself.

Alegna, thanks so much for sharing more of yourself and the trust you have shown to me (and this forum) by doing so! You don&#8217;t sound pathetic at all&#8230; In fact, I think it really takes strength and courage from a GOOD person to face and admit there problems and overcome it. And currently you&#8217;re working on your problems and you have survived many difficulties already &#8211; it really takes strength and commitment and I admire that. Please don&#8217;t think I just say this make you feel better. I really MEAN it!

Regarding the bulimia &#8211; it&#8217;s also a medical condition that&#8217;s NOT YOUR FAULT and you don&#8217;t have to feel ashamed or bad about it! You know, I think there are SO many other people outside in this world who suffer from similar conditions, but because they rarely admits it (due to the judgmental attitude of most people and lack of knowledge), they suffer in silence. Maybe God has given you this &#8220;cross&#8221; so that one day you will be able to help, support and advice other people who suffer from the similar problems. Only people who have suffered through difficulties have the empathy and depth of heart to really understand someone else in the same position.

I think it might be good if you can also visit a psychologist who have a broader knowledge about other disorders as well (specifically psychiatric disorders) and who can then refer you to a good specialist (psychiatrist) who can properly diagnose you if necessary. But after you&#8217;ve told me about the bulimia and your obsessive thoughts about other things as well, it strengthens my suspicion that you might suffer from Obsessive/Compulsive disorder with associated depression as well. I know that OCD/Depression in woman also goes hand in hand with PMS. If you have this disorder and can get relieve from the right medicine to correct the imbalance you will feel so much better and it will be such a relief to you! I&#8217;m using Cipramil (in the U.S. its called Celexa), but I know there is other SRRI-inhibitors (that corrects the Serotin-level in the brain) that also gives relief from bulimia at the same time. But Cipramil/Celexa is good in the sense that it have very few side effects and it is a very &#8220;clean&#8221; drug which can be used for years without any consequences. There are so many anti-dep&#8217;s on the market with terrible side-effects, so just be very careful when you have to use them.

Please post any time you feel like it, I will help, &#8220;listen&#8221; and support the best I can! Here is a link on OCD you can check out if you have the time. An online-self test is also included in the link.

I must knock off from work within an hour and I still have some things to do, so I will check in again tomorrow. Enjoy the rest of your day. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

SDFR, thanks for making me laugh.

I should be working right now (I'm finishing up a few freelance projects, and I'm looking around a room now filled with half-packed boxes). BUT, sharing with you and Suzet puts me in a better frame of mind, which allows me to work more efficiently. (I'm attempting to excuse too much time spent on these boards!!!)

Anyway, I will continue working on myself. I do have a few more tools now, though.

Good luck with your studies!

Oh! And one more thing -- I know several people who were sexually abused as children. And it was never reported. What does that say for statistics?

Just my 2 cents.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Oh! And one more thing -- I know several people who were sexually abused as children. And it was never reported. What does that say for statistics?

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exactly my point.

It sickens me that one political group would use those numbers for their benefit and another group with opposing views will sware the numbers are blown out of proportion for political gain.

Neither really gives a rats [censored] about the victims other than the political leverage it brings to the table.

Alegna, I have post another reply and link to you on page 3. Just for incase you have missed it... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Thanks Suzet-

I would have missed it!

Hi Suzet,

I checked out your link to the information regarding OCD. I have actually read this exact article before (when the depression first hit, I did a lot of searching on the internet for information) I really don't think I have it. Yes, I've got more than my share of problems <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> , but when I was reading the article, it just didn't "feel" like it was describing me. I had actually suspected OCD a few months ago and that's when I ran across the article you sent.

Anyway, I will talk to my new doctor about it though. You mentioned seeing a psychiatrist, etc. I have done that. That's who I've been calling my therapist. I hate to think about trying to find a good therapist. It's even harder than finding a good gynecologist <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> .

And Suzette, you are a really kind heart. It's so funny how quickly on a forum such as this you can get such a strong sense of someone's personality. (By the way, even though I've long been an avid internet user, this is the first time I've posted on a forum)

If I may ask, do you still see a therapist regularly? I know you mentioned in some of your previous posts that you were seeing one before. How long did it take you to find him/her and how many therapists did you try before you found a good one?

I stuck with the first one referred to me by my doctor because the situation was so acute at the time... She has definitely helped, but I don't know. I feel like it's possible to have someone much better.

Thanks again for listening, Suzet. (And you too, SDFR, if your reading <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

Alegna, regarding finding a therapist &#8211; I was just very lucky! But first I want to tell you the following: When I first revealed the sexual abuse when I was 19 years old, my parents took me to the first and best therapist they could find&#8230; Unfortunately she was not the right person &#8211; I couldn&#8217;t really get the help I needed and stop seeing her after a few months and never returned&#8230; But part of it was also my own fault &#8211; you see, at that stage I wasn&#8217;t ready to be totally open and honest about everything that happened, my feelings etc. I&#8217;m a very private person and even today I find it very difficult to &#8220;bare my soul&#8221; if I don&#8217;t sense sincere interest and concern from another person. With the first therapist I couldn&#8217;t ever really sense a real interest and concern from her&#8211; it felt if she was only doing her job.

After that I never tried to find or see another therapist again, but as I&#8217;ve explained in an earlier post, 2 years ago it became necessary to see one again. In the institution where I work we have a staff counselor (woman) who is a full qualified psychiatrist. I didn&#8217;t shop around for other therapist but decided to visit her&#8230; You know, it was the BEST choice I could have ever made &#8211; she is really a sincere woman and Christian and could give me all the help and support I needed. She also became a very close friend and confident - I&#8217;m very lucky to have her and she is really my &#8220;role model&#8221;. So, until today I still have regular contact with her (as a friend and confident), but if it might become necessary for me to get professional help from her again, I know she will always be available. But I think with the support and advice she&#8217;s still giving to me from time to time when I need it, she still qualifies as my &#8220;counselor&#8221; in an unprofessional/informal capacity!

Alegna, regarding the OCD: Before I was diagnosed I also thought that I don&#8217;t have it and I couldn&#8217;t really recognize myself as someone with this disorder according to all the material I&#8217;ve read, but that was because I mainly struggle with the obsession component of this disorder and not the compulsive one. Although I sometimes have a light tendency to re-check doors, stove plates and re-read posts, e-mail and other material, try to avoid certain place and people etc., it&#8217;s mainly the obsessive thoughts that was my major problem. So, to put it more clearly, I was diagnosed with Obsessive disorder with a slight tendency towards Compulsive behaviour with associated depression and anxiety &#8211; so this diagnosis make it a bit different than the main Obsessive/Compulsive Disorder itself. You can also discuss this with your doctor &#8211; this was the first thing that came to mind after I&#8217;ve read your posts - that you might suffer from a similar deviation than me. I must add that I have the Obsessive disorder where the obsessions is rational but out of proportion and excessive &#8211; and I have recognize the same from your posts. Most people with OCD have irrational thought and behavior patterns but this is not always the case. The reason I said it might be necessary for you to find a therapist with a broader field of experience and knowledge, was because you mentioned that your therapist mainly specialize in eating disorders. I'm sorry if it sounds that I'm "hammering" on the same thing over and over, but I just really want you to get certainty about this. Maybe I feel so strongly about it because I know how big influence something like this can have on all aspect of a ones life. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I have already &#8216;talked&#8217; a lot, so let me finish for now&#8230; Enjoy your day! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ March 04, 2004, 02:46 AM: Message edited by: Suzet ]</small>

Hi again! I guess I should clarify about my therapist. She wasn't recommended because of the eating disorder... In fact, my doctor didn't even know about the eating disorder business when she recommended her. However, she is a behavioral therapist who works with clients to break obsessive thinking patterns.

And while I have absolutely no problem with others taking medication, I would much rather try handling this with behavioral therapy first. If it doesn't work, then of course I'll try the drugs. One reason I'm particularly hesitant is that I want children at some point. And I'm worried that if I start taking the medication and get pregnant (no now!), and then have to go off the drugs, the problems with just return. This happened to a close friend of mine and she had a very hard time during her pregnancy.

And (another and <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ), since this is the first time I've ever really been in therapy, I want to give it a chance. When I first shared my secret regarding the abuse 8 years ago, I saw one terrible therapist once. I didn't return. Now I've been going for the past three-and-a-half months, but that's really not very long.

I agree, especially after your last post, that we sound very similar in regards to our obsessive thinking. I've never really experienced the compulsive part, except in relation to the bulimia.

Ugh. I've been talking about all this too much. It's making me sad. And I should be excited! My husband and I are starting another of our "adventures" as we like to say. We're moving in less than a week!

Well, I suppose I'll stop talking for now too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Thanks again, Suzette. I'm happy that things have turned out so well for you, and that you found someone who could really help you through the difficult time. I'll restart my search in about two weeks...

Alegna, you know, it&#8217;s funny &#8211; just yesterday I was wondering if you&#8217;re planning on having children! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I saw that you and you H are also married for a couple of years now without any children&#8230; Three years ago (after we tried to conceive for more than a year) we seek help and discovered that we can only have children through ICSI (a very expensive and advanced method for male infertility). Our chances for success will be 30%. We were supposed to start the treatment the beginning of this year, but then my H lost his job (he was victimized and unfairly dismissed). The medical fund don&#8217;t pay for this treatment and my H&#8217;s job circumstances have put us in a difficult financial position, therefore, until everything is settled again (my H&#8217;s case must go to court), we have to put the treatment on hold.

I understand your concern regarding pregnancy and medicine. Last year after we&#8217;ve decided to try the infertility treatment this year, I visited the doctor regarding the possible influence of my medicine on pregnancy and attempts to conceive. Together with the psychiatrist and doctor who must do the infertility treatment, they decided it will best if I continue taking the medicine (throughout treatment and pregnancy if treatment is successful). The medicine I using is a &#8220;clean&#8221; drug with low risks during pregnancy.

Suzet,

It has been fantastic "talking" with you! By the way, I have been giving quite a bit of thought to your explanation and one of the articles to which you pointed me(regarding early childhood stress/abuse and correlation to adulthood depression).

Plus, I've reread this thread several times since you and SDFR have posted quite a bit of information <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . And I too am more and more convinced that we could be experiencing the same thing (in relation to taking a legitimate concern -- the make-out incident for me -- and very literally obsessing over it). Like you, I suppose it's just difficult to begin to accept I might actually have a condition with an actual name. After all, my mantra through life has been: Smile, everything is OK. Not just OK, but great! Granted, I have had to do some serious repressing at times <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . OK - back to the point! I will speak to a doctor about this as soon as I can and mention the medication you have been taking.

About the baby question, we have purposefully waited due to several reasons: I've been really busy with my career, my husband is finishing up his doctorate degree, we enjoy being alone together and traveling, etc.

But we are talking seriously about it now. I would like to have a little one before I turn 32. My H is an only child, and he says if we're having one, then we must have two! But obviously, I want to get myself completely sorted out first.

I'm in the process of doing that now though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

And Suzet,

I do wish you the best with the pregnancy quest too.

I have a question for you though: do you ever get nervous at the thought of having children, nervous that you'll be too over-protective for fear that the same thing that happened to you could happen to them?

This is quite a concern for me. I was abused by my uncle (my father's sister's husband). He was a very respected, intelligent man -- and a minister. He had a son one year younger than I am, and I would spend the night to play with my cousin. Their house was the only one I was allowed to stay over-night when I was 5/6.

My mother was extremely over-protective. But it still happened. Anyway, just thought I would ask.

Thanks, Suzet, for sharing so much with me too!

Alegna, my H is also an only child. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> To be the only child have been terrible for him so if it&#8217;s God&#8217;s will it will be great if we can receive a twin with our first infertility treatment. They say that such a process put very much strain on a couple financially, emotionally and physically, so it will be better for us to have a twin with the first attempt than to go through the process a second time!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Like you, I suppose it's just difficult to begin to accept I might actually have a condition with an actual name.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Alegna, actually it was very difficult for me to accept it, but I feel very differently about it now. Let me explain: I have realized that, just as someone who must take (for example) medicine to stabilize their blood-pressure and can&#8217;t help having high-blood pressure, a person with a psychiatric disorder with an internal cause (physical imbalance) can&#8217;t help for it either. It isn&#8217;t a shame to have high-blood pressure so why feel differently about an imbalance in the body that causes a psychiatric disorder? If you think closely about it there isn&#8217;t any reason why people view it differently . You wouldn&#8217;t think anything about it if the hormone level in your body wasn&#8217;t correct and you needed to take medicine to correct it. Why then feeling differently about diagnosed with a psychiatric disorder? It&#8217;s really not such a big deal! But I know the answer to this: Most people accept any other disorders or sicknesses in the body but the moment they hear it&#8217;s a psychiatric disorder, they are judgmental about it and just think the person must &#8220;pull him/herself together&#8221;. Well, then also tell a person who have &#8220;high-blood pressure&#8221; or a &#8220;hormonal imbalance&#8221; to pull themselves together and don&#8217;t have the physical problem anymore&#8230; Do you understand what I&#8217;m trying to say? After I could accept my &#8220;condition&#8221; and come into terms with it, it was a relief to know there was actually a reason for this and my problem wasn&#8217;t just my fault psychologically and mentally. It was a relief to know I&#8217;m just NORMAL, HEALTHY person with a DISORDER that contributes to my problem. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Regarding your question about being a mother: Yes, I have some fears too... I&#8217;m afraid that I will not be a good enough mother for my children and that I won&#8217;t the right and correct things&#8230; And I know that I will be over-protective in the sense that I won&#8217;t trust any person with my children and that I will be concerned that the same thing might happen to them &#8211; especially if I have to leave them with someone else or a day-care mother/baby-school... But on the positive side, if you and I will have children, we will be so much aware about child-abuse and how to protect and warn them against it. If God will ever bless me with children, I will talk with my children in an appropriate way and tell them if ANYONE ever touches them in a way that feels uncomfortable they must GET AWAY, say NO to the person and TELL ME no matter what!!

<small>[ March 04, 2004, 06:28 AM: Message edited by: Suzet ]</small>

I completely agree with you in terms of psychological problems being no different from any other medical condition. I truly do. But because society in general, I feel, does not hold the same view, accepting can be difficult. I don't want to be viewed as weak.

I am very bad about judging myself more harshly than I judge others. For example, I DON'T perceive you to be weak IN THE LEAST. Neither do I have that attitude about others I know who take anti-Ds.

Even though I am aware that I do this, I just can't seem to stop with the self-punishment. I am tired of it too. But on some level, I feel I deserve it. Lately I've attached this, as you know, to the make-out incident. It's as if that is my own proof that I don't deserve H, for example.

Anyway, I'm getting off track again. I tend to do that quite a lot!

About having children, I have thought many times about the things that I would tell them from the earliest age to try and protect them. I know my H would be a wonderful father... he has said that he will try to balance things out if I am being too protective! He is very laid back, by the way. Lucky me!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I completely agree with you in terms of psychological problems being no different from any other medical condition. I truly do. But because society in general, I feel, does not hold the same view, accepting can be difficult. I don't want to be viewed as weak.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Alegna, I understand exactly what you talking about&#8230; I have experienced this view by society myself and gets very upset about this wrong view of people. A psychological problem caused by a physical imbalance is NOT a weakness (as other medical problems aren&#8217;t a weakness as well) and if people want to see it that way and believe the wrong perception about it, IT&#8217;S THEIR PROBLEM. Sorry, I just feel very strongly about it! My own father has this wrong perception/view about it too and that&#8217;s why he don&#8217;t know about my chronic medication. There is only a handful of people I can trust who knows about my problem.

Alegna, if I listen to you and compare the 2 incidents that happened to you (the kissing and flirting incidents) to my situation and the inappropriate friendship I had with OM, I am the one who have reason to think I don&#8217;t deserve my husband, not you. The one incident even happened before you get married. You are too hard on yourself! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

O, you can get off truck as many times you like &#8211; I don&#8217;t mind. You can share anything you want! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ March 04, 2004, 07:30 AM: Message edited by: Suzet ]</small>

Suzet,

I don't mean to gush, but your generosity and goodness are more than evident. I do hate the idea that someone has experienced what I have (icky abuse), but being able to share with you has been such a blessing. It truly has.

It's very odd how quickly you can feel you get to know someone through a few posts. I know part of this is false perception since we've never even shared a coffee, but what you have shared tells so much about you. Your husband is a very lucky man.

And I am very fortunate that you started responding to my thread. By the way, I don't want to be pushy, but if you would like to communicate via e-mail, let me know and I will post a hotmail address here.

Thanks so much, Suzet!