Well this ran a little off the road eh??

FIRST I will apologize for my horrible attempt at levity in my post where I say I prefer pond scum over the scum of the earth..
that my friends is a perfect example of my big mouth getting myself in trouble..just like in real time... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I apologize because I was just speaking of prefering "the term" and not in any way shape or form calling anyone pondscum...I do not call people names here...and don't plan on starting....
and am sorry for not reading clearly WATs post...and trying to be funny which I clearly am not...


Soooo

Then let me next defend WAT...though he is well capable of doing so....and ask his forgiveness for speaking for him...

truth is captain's wife and captain bob...WAT did not here call you any name ...what he stated is ...

If WSs in the act, potentially destroying marriages and families and committing emotional rape upon their spouses and OP's spouses are NOT pond scum - who possibly could be? Murderers and sexual rapists, I suppose.

BUT - to me and the way I interact with former WSs on this forum - the moment these WSs clear the fog and renounce their behavior, the pond scum also clears.

How people got out of that WAT goes around calling people names in unknown to me...or called someone a name on this post....
He clearly states that he feels that way towards active cheaters that rarely come here and attempt to speak of the glories of their affairs...

Clearly stated above once any type of ending to that behavior is on the horizon.....he doesn't think or feel that way about them...

WAT has posted tons of wisdom and support to former WS even in the throes of slip-ups and backwards steps...
to act like he comes here name-calling is ludicrous...

AND to even act like this board is one big WS bashing board is not true...
while venting can be helpful..overindulgence usually begets the advice to quit focusing on the OP or the WS and bring the attention back to oneself...

AGAIN
if you see blatant name calling in a thread...which I also hate as it is serves no good here..hit the button and report it....

I again aplogize for my pond scum reference...it was not jab at anyone...it was a jab at termonology...but innapropriate non the less...

ARK

Originally posted by captain's wife:
I seem to have the same effect unless everyone is angry at me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />


No one is mad at you. This is a non-adult type of comment. How could you possibly know how others feel about you? How do you know we don't care about you?

We are having a disagreement with your point of view. This is an adult conversation. I have tremendous respect for you. You are here. You are struggling. You are (in some ways) going against your nature .... hearing critical comments and holding on to yourself.

Learning to do this ---> have an adult disagreement and critical discussion without falling apart and retreating into your hurt feelings <--- will actually HELP your recovery! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

If you can do this "here" you can do this at home, where it actually matters!

If you do something like this in your head .... "they think I did something wrong .... therefore they think I do all things wrong .... therefore they don't like me ..... therefore they think I am a "bad" person ..... therefore I must leave because my feeling are so hurt"....... this is a defense mechanism, a way to hide.

And, lets face it, we ALL need a place to hide once in awhile. We are ALL weak sometimes. We ALL want to be liked. We ALL want to find a connection of minds.

It is not important for us to like you anyway .... is it? I think it's far more important we respect each other.

I respect your position that calling "all OW in general " a name is not OK. That is your position. You're entitled. I can argue with this and still respect your position and respect you.

One thing that attracted me to your thread here was the concept of discussing a certain principle.... name calling.... generalizations.... and the like. Your feelings belong to you and I would never deny you that. Your feelings matter .... yes they do .... but one thing you may not have realized while you are still so tender in your recovery is this:

Feelings are not truth.

If I say to you (hypothetical) ... "CW, you're fat."
My comment does not make you fat any more than my saying "CW, you're thin." makes you thin.

I liked it that you declaired so boldly in the title of this thread ... "I AM NOT SCUM OF THE EARTH" .... brava! I agree YOU are not scum of the earth.

Now let's discuss why someone may say that during some level of their own recovery .... because someone calls you scum does not make you scum .... however.... you allowed someone to hurt your feelings over a non-fact ... their feeling about OW being scum is not a fact .... it is their feeling.

Facts are sometimes different than feelings about things.

This is the classic issue of the "fog" of an affairee ... their feelings run amuck, and facts go out the window and their feelings are running the ship .... as the ship crashes into the shore of reality.

"Everyone is angy with me" .... is simply NOT FACTUAL .... yet, you tried to make it factual because your feelings led you this way.

I hope I have expressed myself clearly.

If we didn't care about you, we'd ignore you!

Check your feelings from time to time .... and scrutinize whether or not your feelings are reality-based. If you are not sure , ask someone else for validation of the FACTS ... and your feelings do not have to be validated.

Pep

<small>[ February 29, 2004, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by i'm precious:
<strong> Pepperband,

I am so sorry!

I'm precious </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK....
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

What are you sorry for?

I am confused.

Pep

Thank you JL and ark^^ for properly reading and interpreting my initial response to this thread.

captain's wife and captian bob, I apologize for not better expressing my point. I believe you missed the subtlety within my response that differentiated between current and former WSs. captain's wife - I should have stated that I admire your being here. The fact that you're here means - to me - that you are likely already attempting to atone for your mistake and no longer qualify for whatever moniker you may have previously wore. By your presence here, you make a loud statement about your integrity and potential for personal growth and the potential growth of your marriage. Good luck to both of you.

WAT

CW -

I felt I needed to speak up on this post. The way I felt when I first found out my H had an A would have caused me to post some really terrible things here about WSs

I have found a great deal of comfort from the WSs on this board. I can't thank each and everyone of you enough for coming here. It shows courage and that you are committed to making your marriage work. Stay here and continue to seek help but also help others.

As for the OW in my situation the words Scum of the Earth do not do her justice. I'd say something more like a festers wound on the face of humanity. I'd say the say them about my WH during the fog.

I have no guilt about those feelings. I am dealing with them the best way I know how.

In the world I might have to appear as the "bigger" person but not here.

You'll have to overlook some of the comments you read here from BSs. We hurt and this is where we come to express that pain. So if we want to vent and say nasty things about the people involved in the A...let us. I think that's a lot better then some of us venting elsewhere...like in front of our children. Or god forbid I follow my instinct when I see OW driving down the road and follow her to her house. Those are the times I want revenge....nothing good will come of that but for a few moments (when I'm putting her teeth in my pocket) I think I might have some satisfaction.

Anyway, just letting you know that I'm glad you are here and I hope you stay.

Good luck!

I think that a significant issue with this long thread has only minutely been addressed by WAT.

The WSs whom aggregate the hateful and injurious 'flames' by the BSs here are NOT typically the same ones who are here posting. The ones who actually CAUSE the feelings of pain, distrust, hatred, disgust, and utter disdain are the ones who ARE NOT ON THIS BOARD posting.

The WSs such as WAT's, or mine, or Peachy's, etc. The WSs who, because of their low character find that their behavior and choices have no real significance on the world, but have TOTAL significance in THEIR world. THOSE are the WSs that the anger, resentment, and coarse words are directed towards.

My ex NEVER posted a word on this board that I know of. I do know she would come here and read what I wrote, then yell at me for 'airing our dirty laundry'. She could never understand what I felt, only how it affected her. SHE is one of the people to whom these sorts of words are directed.

I would have given ANYTHING for my ex to have tried, to have posted here, to have felt remorse and wanted to work. The WSs who post here all DO want these things. That is what completely separates you from the anger that is termed here. I truthfully doubt that there has been ANY WS THAT HAS POSTED HERE ALONG WITH A BS WHO HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO WORK ON THEIR MARRIAGE. Those WSs who come here have something that sets them apart, SOMEWHAT, from the other typical WSs that most of the posters (BSs) have in their lives.

You are not horrible, but you made horrible decisions. You hurt the person you swore to protect. You did both the vow and the betrayal of your own free will. However, YOU, as opposed to most WSs that we all deal with, showed remorse and a continued attempt to change. Once again, this sets you apart.

But beware, my ex put on a show for 4 months. She cried repentance initially, then acted like nothing had happened, and that I was the only one that needed to change. Don't let yourself fall into the "I said I was sorry, I have forgiven myself, now I am done... just move on."

Ark-

Well this ran a little off the road eh??
yes, you could definitely say that... it ran right off the road, through a ditch, and it was heading for a tree! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
I'm so glad that we seem to found the brakes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I will say here that it was not my intention to point fingers at anyone here, either...if that's the way that I came across, I apologize.
I do get a great deal of help from these boards, and I don't plan on leaving.


Pep-


Originally posted by captain's wife:
I seem to have the same effect unless everyone is angry at me!

Pep:No one is mad at you. This is a non-adult type of comment. How could you possibly know how others feel about you? How do you know we don't care about you?

I apologize, you are correct. It felt as if everyone was angry about what I had said... but I should not have worded my statement that way. I don't always handle it well when I believe that others are upset with me or because of something that I've done or said. That's an old issue of mine... but I won't go into that right now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I apologize for reacting inappropriately.

Learning to do this ---> have an adult disagreement and critical discussion without falling apart and retreating into your hurt feelings <--- will actually HELP your recovery!

exactly - I need to learn and practice that. I know that... it's one of my biggest struggles. Unfortunately, it's not always easy to remember that when I'm in the middle of it. I get the distinct feeling that I'm gonna get alot of practice with that around here, though!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I respect your position that calling "all OW in general " a name is not OK. That is your position. You're entitled. I can argue with this and still respect your position and respect you.

I appreciate you saying that.
I guess that the especially difficult part of this topic and position that I've taken is that when you argue and disagree with this particular opinion of mine... my brain goes through this process: they think it's alright to call all WS's and OW's names: I'm a WS and an OW: they think it's alright to call me names: I don't feel respected when I'm being called names. Does that thought process make sense? Maybe it doesn't... I may still need help with it somehow.

Either way, if you say that you respect my opinions, I will accept that - and I will accept and respect your opinions, as well. I will agree to disagree. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I was actually trying to say that very thing in one of my posts... obviously I must not have said it very well...

I have a great deal of respect for you, and for many others here, as well. I know that you all have your own struggles, and yet you take time to come here and help others, and share what you have learned. I respect that, and I appreciate it. (sometimes I have to wait for the swelling to go down after I've been hit with that 2X4 - but eventually I appreciate it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> )


HW -

You'll have to overlook some of the comments you read here from BSs. We hurt and this is where we come to express that pain. So if we want to vent and say nasty things about the people involved in the A...let us. I think that's a lot better then some of us venting elsewhere...like in front of our children. Or god forbid I follow my instinct when I see OW driving down the road and follow her to her house. Those are the times I want revenge....nothing good will come of that but for a few moments (when I'm putting her teeth in my pocket) I think I might have some satisfaction.

I can see your point. Really, I can. I, too, would much rather have you (or anyone else) vent here than in front of children, or taking it out on someone else(and ending up handing over those teeth to the cops as they lead you into the cell! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ).

CW

FC-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The WSs whom aggregate the hateful and injurious 'flames' by the BSs here are NOT typically the same ones who are here posting. The ones who actually CAUSE the feelings of pain, distrust, hatred, disgust, and utter disdain are the ones who ARE NOT ON THIS BOARD posting.

The WSs who post here all DO want these things. That is what completely separates you from the anger that is termed here. I truthfully doubt that there has been [b]ANY WS THAT HAS POSTED HERE ALONG WITH A BS WHO HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO WORK ON THEIR MARRIAGE. Those WSs who come here have something that sets them apart, SOMEWHAT, from the other typical WSs that most of the posters (BSs) have in their lives.

You are not horrible, but you made horrible decisions. You hurt the person you swore to protect. You did both the vow and the betrayal of your own free will. However, YOU, as opposed to most WSs that we all deal with, showed remorse and a continued attempt to change. Once again, this sets you apart.[/b]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I appreciate so much your saying that. I do. I also know that you're right that I need to be careful. I need to keep working with my husband on our recovery. I worry sometimes that I might not be strong enough to keep working at it... sometimes it is so exhausting! My H keeps reminding me that he's here for me, though... and most importantly, that my God is here for me... and they both definitely want me to succeed, so they are gonna help me keep going if that's what I want! It is what I want... and I want it more and more every day.

Do I dare point out, though, that the thing that I was having difficulty with was not when people were saying nasty things about their WS's, or about WS's that are unrepentent... but when people say "ANY man/woman who would..." which doesn't at all let the WS such as myself know that the comment is not directed at me.
I voiced my difficulty, though, and I heard many differing opinions... and I have been reminded that just because someone says something, that doesn't mean that it's true, or that it is directed at me. I have been reminded that people need to be able to voice their feelings - even if they aren't always pleasant.
As usual, I have learned alot... and I am practicing the concept of "agreeing to disagree" ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

CW

Have to disagree with you, FC.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The WSs whom aggregate the hateful and injurious 'flames' by the BSs here are NOT typically the same ones who are here posting. The ones who actually CAUSE the feelings of pain, distrust, hatred, disgust, and utter disdain are the ones who ARE NOT ON THIS BOARD posting. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now, if you mean the pain and anguish is caused by those not posting, then that I could agree with. However, many of us have been the recipient of many a flame.

We apparently perceive this issue differently.

There's no point in spinning this. Angry BSs are going to flame anyone they perceive as being philosophical buddies with their WS. Early on, this is quite understandable.

However, people grow through their experience. Both the WS and BS. I think the animosity is something that gets worked through.

But let's be honest and acknowledge it's there. Then we can take positive action to understand it and manage it.

Low

That is exactly what I mean LO. I mean that the cause of the poster's pain is not YOU. You are a target that represents the actual person. While that is not fair perhaps, then again, neither was the betrayal, so we all bear our crosses, so to speak.

I know that there are often flames of WSs. Usually, as I have seen it occur, it is when the WS is here rationalizing their behavior. Many are very capable of saying "I was wrong, and I know that my God forgives me." but they will follow that up with a "I was just so sad... he treated me like I never felt before... My ex was a horrible man... etc. etc. etc..." THAT is what brings about the ire of the BSs. The rationalization COMPLETELY NEGATES THE SINCERITY OR LACK THEREOF The WS cries 'foul' as he/she is called on it, and typically there is one or two BSs who are at a difficult point in their healing and very well might lash out.

What I fail to understand is why so many WSs are so capable of justifying and rationalizing their choices in the same breath they beg repentance? This seems completely incongruous, and although I DEFINITELY am not God, and have no inside track on truth, I find it difficult to respect the sincerity of that WS. It is a pattern that I have seen occur on this board for over 2 years now. Many continue to progress, such as Jen, but so many continue to state that while their behavior was wrong, it was in some way warrented, and shouldn't be looked as a character flaw, but rather something akin to tripping over the curb and dropping a dozen eggs. Sure the omlet is ruined, but it really wasn't 'MY FAULT' that it happened and it has nothing to do with MY BASE VALUES or CHARACTER.

My ex actually looked me in the eye and stated to me "I am happy with who I am." NOW IF THAT isn't a character flaw... then I really don't know what is. After having 3 men going at once, lying to everyone including her best friend, having her assistant principal (4th grade teacher) take naked pictures of her so she could send them to her men... she sat there and said she was 'happy with who she was'.

THOSE are the types of things that we or a large portion of 'WE' are exposed to, and the separation of that intimate knowledge from the smattering of knowledge that is posted here blurs significantly.

Truthfully, I DO believe that there is a flaw in the character that is capable of having an affair. That doesn't mean that the person cannot return to being a good person... but that DOES mean in my opinion, that the status must be EARNED and there are just so many WSs who seem to think that just because they exist, pay taxes, and hold a job... they are good people. In my opinion these are the LEAST of the things that make them a good person. So many WSs think that because they 'love' their children, they are good parents. Well... in my opinion, affairs and being good parents are mutually EXCLUSIVE, because by the very nature of the affair, the only people benefiting are the affairees. Typically the family suffers GREATLY because of the affair, and NOW DAYS, very often the family disintegrates. But the WSs can still stand there and say 'I love my children???" They do... just not in the way the children NEED to be loved.

I know that some parents recover. I know that some families recover. I know that people can change should they choose. I also know that God has more Grace and forgiveness available than we have lies and betrayal. But I am not so sure he hands it out just because someone says sorry... sure wish I knew more about his wishes, desires, and workings.

I guess what I am saying is that all too often, the same thing is stated by the WS. And unfortunately for those who truly wish to change, they will be perceived as part of the much larger group that typifies MOST of the WSs associated with the BSs of this board. Personally I don't KNOW any WS who actually tried to change. Mine certainly didn't. I know of at least 6 friends who have had their marriage crushed due to infidelity and NONE of them wanted to leave the marriage even after D-day. THAT is the reality that I am confronted with day in and day out.

In almost all respects YOU and the other WSs who choose to remain here and actually DO work are anomalies. You don't represent the typical affairee, at least in my experience as well as those of most BSs here. THAT is why you will always be looked upon critically. It is the product of your past and the similar past of those around us... it is the 'reward' for past choices. If this is the worst that any WS will have to deal with,... then that WS will be a lucky person indeed.

I have been reminded that people need to be able to voice their feelings - even if they aren't always pleasant.

Yes, and that goes to you as well... remember you are just as allowed as any of us to voice your feelings also.........("even if they aren't always pleasant")

We all have areas in our life that others could point a finger at..........(me included)

The whole key here is in learning to be a happy, productive person.. it is hard to be happy living in guilt.. once we stop doing the things that can help cause us "guilt", we really don't need to carry around that guilt anymore, because it is just like a big weight we carry around on our shoulders that gets much lighter when we leave it behind and forgive ourselves, then "keepmvn4wrd".......


I worry sometimes that I might not be strong enough to keep working at it... sometimes it is so exhausting!

Why not try and stop looking at it as work, but looking at it as a "goal" of looking at it as "joy"... taking what you have learned and turning it into good and enjoying your relationship from this day forward?

Just a suggestion.... good luck

<small>[ March 02, 2004, 07:59 AM: Message edited by: heroswife ]</small>

CW, and others, I'd like to make a recommendation. Take it for what it's worth.

End this discussion about name calling, etc. WSs in the act need to accept that they will be called names by their spouses and others. Come to think of it, what worse name can there be than "Wayward Spouse", "Other Woman" or "Other Man"???

Once the "crime" is over - as in CW's case - the names no longer apply. Period. Former WSs posting on this forum are a rare lot. It takes courage and substance beyond a lot of BSs to do this. This forum cound not be sucessful without this.

Former WSs cannot appreciate the BSs' pain. BSs cannot appreciate the turmoil and confusion of a WS in a romantic affair. BSs especially cannot appreciate a WS's withdrawal. It doesn't matter that it's self inflicted. It exists. The BS's pain is partly self inflicted as well, if you accept that BSs play a role in creating the ripe environment for an affair to occur.

Please, end this and go help some other people.

Respectfully,
WAT

<small>[ March 02, 2004, 08:00 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

WAT-

I certainly hope that this thread hasn't taken attention away from someone else who needs help. I, personally, appreciate all of the contributions. I've learned a great deal about myself, this forum, the feelings of BSs, and others. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

CW

CW -

I think any post you put on this site is needed. There are so few FWS's out there that are willing to help the BS's of the world.

Please continue to post here. Please seek help here and help others.

You are wanted and you are certainly not SCUM OF THE EARTH!

I'm so glad you are here. I've thought about you a lot lately. I hope you stay for a while. People here need your support as much as you need their support.

Formerly Confused,

I too am a WS, so I'm sure that everything I say will be taken as making excuses, but here I go anywey. Let me tell you that there is no "tone" in my voice, so don't put something there that isn't. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

First of all, why is it that anytime a WS spouse mentions anything about how they felt pre-A everyone tries to say that they are making excuses? My marriage was crap before. That doesn't mean that I don't take responsibility for what I did. I do. I wish I had never done it. I wish instead that I would have just left. I thought about it a million times. If we hadn't had a son together I would have. How I wish so many times that I would have left instead of letting A happen. H even admits that if our M had been the way it has been the last 9 months for all of our married lives, the A wouldn't have happened. So does that mean that I am justified? NOOOOOO!!!

Second of all, why is it that the only marriage vow that people think is important is this one. I thought there were others. I guess I must be delusional just like OM says. Or is it just that it's the only one that's important? Please don't get mad and start railing on me. I am asking sincerely. I would like a sincere answer. It seems that, for the most part, all other hurts are diminished around here, as if they are unimportant. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I love my H. However, I have learned that love doesn't conquer all. If it did, very few people would get divorced. We both screwed up. My screw up, unfortunately, was the worst. But does that now give H a license to do and say anything he wants? Do I no longer have ANY rights? I know I have no right to choose if we save our marriage. I gave that up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I guess my mind is warped. While I understand that what I did is the worst thing that I could do to H, it is NOT the worst thing he could do to me. But no one will discuss that with me because that would imply that I'm making excuses for myself. I actually wish H had been the one to have an A. It just wouldn't have done to me what it has done to him. My innocence was stolen a long time ago. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I know the Dr. Harley says that a spouse having an A is like rape. Maybe it is. I don't know. I was raped and when I think about that I don't think that my H going out with someone else would hurt me that bad. But as I said I have a warped way of looking at things. I guess it is like rape in the sense that the innocence is gone. But see, I haven't had that innocence since I was 4 years old. I expect bad things. I don't want to. It's just part of who I am.

H and I have been reading "The Sexual Healing Journey" together and Ms. Maltz has suggested some exercises that require imaging how I would feel about certain things if I had never had the experiences that I have. How do I do that? It is so much a part of me that I don't know who I would be without that part of me.

So, I'll shut up for now. I could say a lot more, but it would just be interpreted as me making excuses for my behavior. Just think though before you start railing on someone that there is more to the story than any of us know. Not an excuse. Just a fact.

Just know that I'm not asking for a pass. I have to live with this the rest of my life. And I don't say that lightly. My IC was estatic when we were talking and she asked me if I felt guilty and that it was my fault my mom had alzheimer's. It was a first. So it isn't just a little guilt I feel. I truly wish I could die.


I'm precious

Me (WS) 43
H (BS) 46
M 13 years
Kids (his, mine, and ours) S-24, S-22, S-21, D-20, S-12
EA/PA lasted 6 weeks
D-day 6/24/2003 and glad of it
OM was 12 year old son's psychiatrist who offered to do MC for H and me after A started

CW,

Sorry! I didn't mean to hijack your thread. I will try to refrain from further postings along the above line. But I'm sure it will demonstrate what I told you in an earlier post. For the most part people here at MB are very compassionate and just want to help both the BS and the WS.

LOL,
I'm precious

I'm precious -

I hate that you are feeling this way. I can honestly say I have felt the same way at time in my life.

You sound truly sorry for the A. I hope your H sees that. It is very obvious. You are completely entitled to feel the way that you do now.

As a BS I can tell you that we go through so many different emotions that it's hard to tell which way is up and which way is down.

Please do not get discouraged by some of the BSs that respond to you negatively here. We are all just trying to recover.

Please continue to post on this site. I will pray for you and your happiness. Also, see about getting on some anti-d's. This will help with your depression. Please do not do anything that might hurt yourself. We need you here and so does your family.

I know it's easy to get down on yourself. You need to realize that you are worthy of forgiveness in your H's eyes and in God's eyes.

HW,

Thanks for the encouragement. I am actually having a pretty good day today. A lot of times how the day goes hinges on H and his mood. I feel so helpless to try to help him. Don't have the right words. I am on AD. I would really be a mess without them. I have been taking for 2 years or so. I saw IC pre and post A so things that I say she said aren't just from me trying to excuse A.

Anyway, I know it's hard for everyone here. If it wasn't none of us would be here. I guess I do understand where CW is coming from. But I also understand where the BS's are coming from also. what a horrible position to be in. I have said before that one of the good things that came out of my past experiences is a real compassion for other people irregardless of what they have done. I really don't think that prostetutes, drug addicts, etc woke up one day and said, "hey, when I grow up I want to be a drug addict, alcoholic, (just fill in the blank). I think I will hurt the people who love me and maybe even killl a person or 2 along the way." Noq how absurd does that sound when you write it in black and white and read it?

My H hurt me in more ways than anyone here will ever know. I have hurt him in ways that no one here knows, in addition to the obvious thing everyone here knows about. Do I think that he woke up one morning after we got married and said to himself, "You know, Kim just seems too happy these days. She doesn't deserve it. I think I'll see what I can do to destroy her." Well, is that not almost even more absurd than the example in the previous paragraph? Well, I didn't do that either. I didn't wake up one morning and say, "you know, Doug has hurt me. He doesn't seem sorry. He's a PIA anyway. I think I'll go out and have an A. It would serve him right." However, my thinking at the time wasn't right. People say that they want to know why, they want to understand, but a BS tries to say something like here's what my state of mind was at the time, others will say, "See! She's not sorry. She's just making excuses!" I'm not saying that my state of mind or my feelings were right. I'm just saying that they are. Does any of this make sense? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I am very thankful for finding MB when I did. I do wish I had found it about a year ago or more. Maybe I would have avoided making that huge mistake I made. I would have had support. I wouldn't have felt so utterly alone. I would have gotten daily support and advice that is actually sensible. I think however,that the key is having people around all the time that will support a person. It can sometimes be a long time between counseling appts and friends you see everyday sometimes get tired of listening day in and day out. So a person can come here and all the members have a choice of looking at the author of a particular thread and saying that they can't deal with it today or whatever. But there are enough members here that someone is always here to listen. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thank you agin.
I'm precious

Me (WS) 43
H (BS) 46
M 13 years
Kids (his, mine, and ours) S-24, S-22, S-21, D-20, S-12
EA/PA lasted 6 weeks
D-day 6/24/2003 and glad of it
OM was 12 year old son's psychiatrist who offered to do MC for H and me after A started.

Dear 'I'm Precious'
I don't know if you noticed but I had started a thread for you, after reading your story.

If you go to page 2 and scroll down, you will see it.
You had a thoughtful reply from 'alegna'.
You may want to answer on that thread and bring it back to the top.

I think you will receive LOTS of help from caring people here at this Marriage Builders message board.

Love, Julie