I have a question about something that is seemingly impossible for me to do. As you know, I'm in NC with OM and my H knows about A. I've been trying to move on and some days are better than others. The problem that I'm having is in regards to moving on w/o OM. I mean, I've established NC but now how do I stop obsessing about him?
What I mean by obsessing about him is this: I wake up in the middle of the night from a dream where OM is going back to his W (which he apparently is but he has always denied this to me- I found out through outside sources) and then I lie there and figure out ways in which to find out the truth. I dream about how I can pick the locks at his house when he's at work so I can check his computer email and read what's being said between them or I dream about driving past OM's house and seeing if he's there and if he's not then driving by his W's house and seeing if he's there, etc.
I hate this and it's eating me alive. I've tried everything I know to try to prevent these thoughts from coming into my head but I have yet to find something that works.
It's almost like it won't go to rest until I find out the truth, like I can't move on until I know. Has anyone else experienced this and if so, did you find anything that helped?
Things have been going well between my H and I and I tell him that I'm having a hard time with my thoughts but this is beyond a "hard time", like I said it's almost become an obsession.
How do I stop this so that I can say goodbye to OM in my heart for good?
Please help me because I'm scared that one of these days the obsession is going to break me and I'm going to give in to it. I'm so tired of riding this rollercoaster and I only want my life to move forward without OM.
Thank you.

Let's try something.....need to get you refocused. You are obessing a bit and well....wonder how it looks when you see the same actions on someone else? Maybe you feel no one knows but it maybe more obvious than you know. So let's try another approach.

What is the most gross thing you have ever seen, eaten, smelled or touched? It can be different things.

What is the most horrific event you have ever read/heard of, witnessed or experienced?

You don't have to print your answers if you don't want to, just let us know when have answered them to yourself. Then I have another assignment.

Be patient....there is a method to my madness. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

L.

Orchid-
I guess the grossest thing would be watching fear factor and seeing them eat live spiders and when they put the spiders in their mouths, the legs were sticking out and moving. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
The most horrific thing would have to be seeing the movie The Passion.
You've definately piqued my curiosity Orchid, thanks so much for taking the time to try and help me.
SG

Hi SG,

orchid is in the middle of trying something with you so i don't want to disturb that with my own suggestions at the moment. I do want to send you support, tell you that you are strong enough and you can overcome this obsession. keep posting!!

SG,

Most gross and horrific: Eating live spiders and the movie The Passion....

Now what is the most beautiful, lovely, breathtaking, sweetest, nicest, most cherished moment or event. 1 witnessed by you and 1 experienced by you? Include all your senses

Again you don't have to print the answer if it is too personal. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I will be on and off during the day (gotta go do mom things - LOL!!).

FL, please do not let my little exercise hold you back. SG needs a lot of encouragement right now and we should let her decide how much she help she can handle. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

take care,
L.

FL- thanks for your support and confidence in me. It's nice to know that others have confidence in me when my own seems to be lagging.

Orchid- the most cherished moment experienced by me would be the gift that my H gave me shortly after telling him about the A. He gave me a journal and on the cover it said "forgiven" and there was a picture of a man being held by Jesus. It was a very tender, caring, unselfish gesture and it touched every sense deeply.
Most cherished moment witnessed would have to be seeing a baby being born. Again, there are so many emotions that affect so many senses and it's just amazing.

(I just wanted to quickly add that when I said the movie the Passion was the most horrific thing, I meant that in the sense that I can't believe that Jesus endured all that he did for me, especially when I have lived my life the way I have. It's very humbling and horrific to watch.)

Thanks again for your support and encouragment.
SG

SG,

On my way out but wanted to peek in a bit. Ok, you answered the questions.

1. Most gross and horrific: Eating live spiders and the movie The Passion....

2. Most cherished moment and experience: receiving the journal from your H and the birth of a child.

SG, now I want you to reflect on your choices and after giving it much thought reply as to why you made these choices. I expect it could take a few hours to a few days so I will check back on you tomorrow. ok?

I already have a few conclusions but your reasons are also important to consider. You are already showing signs of thinking with a clear mind. Now you have to calm your heart, refocus and move forward. Sounds like there is a good and loving man waiting for you to finish your healing so you can help him heal. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hugz,
L.

DEAR SG.
Hopefully the reality of following message by Trueheart will help you.
Love Julie

" I know full well the pain, anger, frustration, fear, embarrassment, passion, fun, laughter, love, fear, and all the rest of the wide range of emotions of having an Affair. I know what is like to have that Other Person fill up your senses...so full and so fast you wonder how you ever made it without them.

The sex is great, the passion is overwhelming, you can't wait to see them, touch them, hear them...all the while drifting further and further from your marriage...lost in the fog. NO matter how we justify it, that other person...is a cheater, as well. They know we are married and they choose to cheat with us. And in many cases, probably have before, and have told the other person they are with, all the same, exact things they tell us. "You are my soulmate" "you are the only one for me" etc etc.

We have heard em all and said em all. We have been told they can make us happy "for the rest of our lives". WE have been so blinded by it all, that we give up family and friends we have had for years, in order for this OP to feel safe with us and convince them how we feel. We take all the energies that we don't use at home, and give them to someone "new". We spend money, time, and energy to build something with someone exciting, instead of spending that with someone that knows us and truly loves us. You see, the truth is, that we, both members of the affair, are very good at one thing....telling each other exactly what we want to hear.

We put together elaborate speeches, write poetry, find mushy cards, send the "perfect" gifts, say the right things...all for this other person. Both of us continue to hone our "cheating" skills to the point of perfection. What ever happened to doing that to your spouse, instead of leaving them at the side of the road with a flat tire? We have derailed their entire life and emotionally checked out...in order to make us feel better about the affair. That simply isn't right.

We took years to build something. We may have taken several years to weaken the foundation of it. But in one simple night of lust, and that is what it is, lust, we tried to destroy it. If we truly "loved" this person, if we truly believed what we were doing is right, true, and good, there would be no indecision on our part. There would be no hesitancy at all. The bottom line is that, you can trust the person you are cheating with less than you can trust yourself.

Deep down in your heart, you still love your spouse, and you know it. You don't want to give up the excitement and passion you have found. The truth is that your marriage will never again go back to what it was. The blind faith in each other is gone....it is replaced with doubt and fear. The wonderful thing is that you now have a chance to "rediscover" your spouse, your marriage, and your family. It is not as hard as you may think, but will take some dedication on your part.

But the beauty of the whole thing is you will be stronger and more in love than you ever thought you could be. You create new memories, new routines, a new life. You re-commit, reinvest your time and energies in that which truly loves you.

The truth is most affairs end when the OP either gets what they thought they needed from you, and even more of them end when the OP finds another WS. Oddly enough, you weren't enough for them either. In the end you are left with no loving spouse, no children, no family, no friends.....and your OP that was so steadfastly dedicated to you is off romping with "the love of their life".

I know from whence I speak, my friends. I know of the pain, the sorrow, the hurt, the look in my childrens eyes when I left the house. I hear the sounds of my W crying, begging, pleading, and hurting. I now see what a fool I was. I now spend everyday, more happy than I ever thought I could be. If the world were to end tomorrow, she would know I loved her as no other. No, she won't ever forget about the A, and along the way, there will be things that will trigger her mind, but, she has forgiven.

You need to talk to your spouse to help them. YOU are the only one that can help them. They need you, much more now than ever before. You have to swallow that pride of yours, for them to heal. You have to open your life up to them, and hide nothing. You have to make it about them. The affair was making it about you, so now you owe it to them, no matter how embarrassed you are, no matter how much you don't wnat to talk about it, to make it about them.

Their peace of mind, their feelings are all that matter. They know, from being here, what they need to do in order to help meet your needs. It is now up to you, to learn what you need to do in order to meet theirs. And make no mistake about it, it will be hard work, but it is oh so worth it!! This person you married, is willing to work with you in order to show you the love you deserve!! Are you willing to work to show them how much you truly love them??

By being here, at Marriage Builders, they have shown that they are willing to adopt the principles that it takes to put their marriage back together. They have pledged their love, and even their support, to your recovery, as well as theirs. They have accepted the crumbs you have offered them, while knowing full well you were at the buffet with the other person in your life. You have one of the strongest, most committed, most wonderful, loving, and caring people in the world on your side. Don't expect them not be angry from time to time. Don't expect them to be perfect, let you off the hook, and not talk about it with you. They need and want to understand you and all the things surrounding what happened. It is part of the healing process. What you can expect is love, honesty, and the rebuilding of your marriage. They know what it takes to make things work now. They also know that they, as well as you, have to be stronger than ever before in their life, if this is going to work. That is why they are still here...they understand. They even know, that you may backslide in the beginning, but are willing to deal with that, in order to preserve and protect that which they believe in ......YOU. I implore you, WS, burn off the fog.

See the sand that is your foundation for the affair. There is no solid basis for this relationship..it is all smoke and mirrors that reflects this "love" you have found. Run, do not walk, back home and give your marriage all the energy, gifts, poems, cards, and love that you have given to the affair. The results are remarkable. But you have to be willing to be honest with yourself, first of all. You have to admit there is a problem, and you have to be willing to fix it, with your spouse, a counselor, whatever or whoever it takes to fix it. You have to be willing to want to be there in mind, body, and spirit. You will find a love more wonderful than anything you knew before.
Trueheart"

Orchid- I will reflect on my answers and see if I can come up with a reason that those are the ones I picked and I will post my response when I come up with it. Again, I really appreciate you taking the time to help me deal with this.

Blessed Time- That post was very beautifully written. It has so perfectly captured the mind and heart of the WS and how they want to believe that the OP is special and what they have is special, etc. It also points out the awesome ability of the BS to forgive. I feel as though my "in love" feelings for OM are starting to go away. It's these obsessive feelings of needing to know what he's doing, etc. that are driving me crazy. I find that I don't long for him much anymore but he is constantly in my mind. Friday was his anniversary and I was so preoccupied with what he was doing, if he was with W, etc. that I just don't know what to do.
I know that I have to change my "habits" and the way I think, but when these obsessive thoughts come into my dreams it just makes it that much worse. I just want to stop caring about what's going on in his life and I want to get to the point that if I found out he was back with W that I would wish them well and not think twice about it. I honestly don't even know if I'm expressing myself correctly but all I can say is that it's eating me alive and I feel like I'm at a stalemate in my recovery until I can overcome this.

Thank you,
SG

Sg,

FWW here. I just want to tell you that as long as you are in NC with OM, the dreams will slowly become fewer and farther between. Your subconcious is still trying to figure things out.

I know it's hard to hear, and hard to be patient, but recovering does take time, no matter how we want to rush it.

I know you want "closure," but maybe there is no such thing. If you find out about one thing (like, did OM go back to his wife), there'll just be something else to wonder about, and it could go on indefinitely. Let it go. Move on.

Meanwhile, distracting yourself can help, as well as prayer, meditation, and reading self-help books. Also, during withdrawal, I feel like medication saved my life by helping me with anxiety and obsessive thoughts. Are you in IC?

Rose55-
I am not currently in IC because I felt that it really wasn't helping me a whole lot while I was in it. It seemed like they weren't really listening and didn't understand when I said that the A happened because of me (my low self esteem, my constant need for approval, etc). So, after trying about 2 different ones I felt that I was getting more out of reading books then I was out of going to my sessions (alot cheaper too).
I'm on AD's though and I can't really tell if they're helping me or not. I certainly don't want to go off of them to find out.
Do you mind if I ask you how long it took you before you started to really see true progress in your recovery? Did you obsess about OM as much as I seem to be? Was there anything in particular that you did to help or was it all basically just a matter of letting time heal the wounds? Did you find that initially as the days of NC went by that it actually got more difficult for you to stop thinking about OM rather than easier?
I really want to move away from here, from all the memories and from all the temptation to drive by OM's house. I don't know if this will become an option or not but I pray that it will.
Day by day...... that's what I keep telling myself. Although lately it's been second by second.......

SG

SG, wow, what a great gift from your husband, the journal. do you use it much?

I wish i had great advice for you. The key really is as simple and as complicated as just telling you to STOP so much thinking. You have to distance from him. NC is a start and a huge thing. Now the next step is letting go inside. For me, i found that when i started to have thoughts on him that i needed to just STOP and I would pray instead. If i was wondering about how he was doing i would say "That is NOT my concern" and then I would say The Lord's Prayer and/or the Serenity Prayer. It helped immensly.

You have to re-discipline your mind on what to think about. It sounds simple and yet impossible, but it is possible. Right now, choose something else to think about.

Do you like to do crafts? I just learned how to knit and i use that sometimes to re-focus my mind too. I am making a scarf for my son right now. I have been thinking about what my next project could be. I'm trying to come up with something i can give my H.

And stop worrying about how it will take to forget about him, that is just another thing that is about him. Choose something about you and your real life.

You said you like to read. There is a book called Feeling Good, The New Mood Therapy by David Burns. It is about using a cognitive approach to treating depression, which i have struggled with a lot these past 3 yrs or so. You might get some helpful guidence from that book. I did. you are going to be OK SG!!!

FL- When I received that journal from my H I started crying because it was such a selfless thing to do and I couldn't believe that my H had such an overpowering ability to forgive me for what I had done to him. I do use it and it helps but sometimes it's hard because I don't want to ever look back and remember what I had gone through during this time so I'm apprehensive about writing the stuff down.
When these thoughts come into my head I try praying or even pleading with God to help me and it helps for awhile but it seems like they're back a few minutes later. I've tried getting out and doing things, changing my routine and again, that helps to a degree but it seems like the OM thoughts are always there underlying.
Lately, I've been asking myself what difference it would make if I did come upon information that proved to me that OM had been lying to me all along and that he is getting back with his W. I ask what that would change for me and would it make me feel better to know this. And my answers are always that, no, I wouldn't feel better knowing this and I don't know why it's so important to me to know.
And, it's just like Rose55 said: once I find out the answer to this then there will be something else that I will want answered and so on and so on and so on. So, I know that this information will do nothing for me but hurt me, yet, knowing that doesn't make it easier to stop wondering.
I have really created a mess for myself and my poor H. He deserves 100% of my heart and that is my goal, it's just taking a REALLY long time getting there.

P.S. thanks for the book recommendation. It sounds alot like something I need to read. I've been looking for a book about getting out of depression for awhile and it's good to have word of mouth recommendations because there are so many books out there that suck. Thanks.

<small>[ February 28, 2004, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: stupidgirl ]</small>

Orchid-
I guess upon reflecting on my answers I have a few reasons why I chose those answers.
I chose the eating spiders answer because I remember watching that on t.v. and it was so horrible that I was really freaked out and it has stuck with me ever since. I hated spiders to begin with but now whenever I see one I immediately remember seeing that on t.v. So, I guess I picked it because it really affected me and has stuck with me all this time.

The reason I picked the Passion for the most horrific thing was because even though I've always been a christian and I knew the story of the Passion, it didn't really ever seem "real" because it happened so long ago and it was hard to imagine what exactly happened. So, seeing it actually helped me to realize what did go on and how horrible it was and how awesome Jesus' love for us is. I can't imagine any human being going through that, especially for other people. It made it real for me and showed me just exactly how much He does love us and it really made my relationship with God much stronger.

The reason I picked receiving the journal was because it was one of those moments that just really touches your heart and you realize that people do love you and do think you're "worth it". The fact that my H could give me a gift like that after all that I had done to hurt him was beyond words. The only thing I could do was cry because it touched me so deeply. It made me feel special to know that he had gone out of his way to try to find a gift that would show me that he loves me and has forgiven me and I must say that he did an Awesome job!

And, the last response about seeing a baby being born I chose because what moment could be more cherished then the birth of a baby? I mean, it's literally seeing new life being born, seeing it take its first breath and it's just an amazing miraculous thing. I think the gift of human life is such a miracle and there is noone in the world that could stand in a birthing room and watch a child come into this world and not get emotional from it. It's just an absolutely amazing thing.

Well, I hope I came up with good reasons for my answers. Thank you, again, for taking the time to post, it means alot to me.

SG

Hi SG, you are welcome for the book recommendation. I do think it is a good book. I hope you find it useful too.

It is good you are questioning yourself as to why you want to know things about OM. Keep questioning yourself. It is better to focus on why you need to know instead of just focusing on OM.

I wonder if you have a need to think that there was some reality to the feelings expressed between you and OM during the A because to have to acknowledge that none of it really meant anything is too painful for you to accept. I know I had that stumbling point for a bit. To have to acknowledge it was all 100% smoke screen and fantasyland vision left me feeling like the past 2 1/2 years of my life was a total waste. I remember wanting to hold on to the thought that we (me and OM) really did have some friendship there too. Does that touch on a nerve at all? For me I just had to keep repeating to myself "that is not my concern now". I stopped trying to sort it all out, i just want to sort out my real life.

I meant to say this too....

I would use that journal!! Write, write and write. It is such a wonderful gift from your H. To not use it seems so wrong to me. I would think your H seeing you use it would be good for him too. It would let him know how much you appreciate it and appreciate him and his ability to forgive you. As you write you have the comfort of knowing he is forgiving you and God is forgiving you, what an awesome gift, don't you think? And then when you do get to a point where this is more behind you, and you WILL get to that point, you and your H can burn it together so that you can let it all go even more. that is my suggestion anyway.

<small>[ February 29, 2004, 08:06 AM: Message edited by: FinallyLearning ]</small>

Finally Learning-
I really liked your suggestion about burning the journal together after I have gotten to the point in my recovery where OM is nothing more than a passing thought. I think that would be a really strong, symbolic gesture for us.

I think you're correct when you say that it's really hard for me to accept that what OM and I had was fake. Maybe that's why it's been such an important thing for me in finding out if he's lied to me. Knowing that I risked everything good in my life for a lie is unbelievable to me and so maybe I'm trying to prove that what we had was real (even though I know in my mind that it wasn't). When I woke up this morning, of course thoughts of OM crept in right away and I took your advice and said to myself "this is not my concern anymore". It really did help and I guess I felt that I had a little more control over where my mind was going to go. I mean, the thoughts still pop in but I feel like I have more control in terms of not dwelling on anything. They pop in and then I don't let myself think about them or concentrate on details. This seems to be helping so far...

I went to order that book on Amazon and there's also a workbook that you can order. Do you have the workbook as well, or just the book? I'm just wondering if I should order both.

I'm so glad that you're doing awesome in your recovery. It really gives me hope to see that someone who was once in my shoes has now gone far past that point in her life and is in a much better place.

SG

Hi SG, Sorry it took me until today to get back here to post and answer your questions.

It’s too bad you couldn’t find an IC you liked and could trust. If you’re not sure your AD’s are helping, maybe you could have a med check with your doctor and see if there’s something else that could help you more, or even if you could add something.

I don’t want to sound like a pill-pusher, but I took AD’s as well as Buspar (for anxiety). (I also had Xanax for emergency panic attacks.) I will go so far as to say the Buspar helped so much that it changed my life (for the better). Everyone’s chemical makeup is different, though, I know.

If books are helping you, I thought I’d tell you which ones helped me the most. They were: Daddy Loves His Girls' by T. D. Jakes; The Battle Belongs to the Lord, by Joyce Meyer; and When Godly People Do Ungodly Things, by Beth Moore. (Sorry I don't know how to underline the titles when posting here.)

From reading some of your earlier threads, I think you’re only a couple months into recovery, and you’ve had contact with OM since then. Do you work at the same place? Not having complete NC makes a big difference in the time it takes to heal.

It’s hard to put recovery into sections of time. It’s called a roller coaster because of the ups and downs, of course. Dday for me was 18 months ago. My situation is different from yours because FOM lives far enough away that there’s really no chance of us running into each other, and it would be a major hassle to try to get together.

I had a slip-up and renewed e-mail contact a couple months past dday and it sent me reeling. I told our pastor and he encouraged me to tell my H. It took at least 3 months of complete NC before one day when I thought of contacting FOM, I suddenly realized I really DIDN’T want to do that.

The ride continued, however, and there were times when certain triggers could mess me up for a while (anywhere from a few days to a few minutes), but I just kept praying, distracting myself, reviewing all the reasons that contact is a bad idea, etc. – whatever I had to do to get through it.

It got to the point that when I think about the A and FOM, I mostly feel embarrassed and sorry. To be completely honest, I have to admit there are moments when a trigger can still tug at my heart a little. In those moments, mostly I wonder how FOM is, and I hope he’s o.k. However, I know that his life is his own to worry about, and that I just need to concentrate on my own life and my M.

Also, remembering the stress, pain, embarrassment, threat to my marriage, and breaking of trust that breaking NC caused in the past is enough to keep me from doing it again. Now I just see how STUPID the whole thing was and I don’t want to go back to any part of it.

I think it was Winston Churchill who said, “When you’re going through hell, keep on going.” The difficulty in going through withdrawal is predictable and “normal.” Try to be encouraged at the thought that a lot of us have gone through it and can say it actually does get better. Keep on going!

Hi Rose55-
You know, today has been a great day. I haven't thought (or I should say dwelled on) about OM a whole lot today and I actually feel "happy". I don't remember the last day that I was happy just to be alive. Whenever OM has slipped into my mind today it's been relatively easy to tell myself that it's not my concern and then I'm able to move past the memory/thought.

Thanks for the list of books. I like going onto Amazon and ordering the used books for a really good price. It helps alot since I order so many books.

NC has been only a little over a month (1 week, 3 days since his last voicemail) so I know that I'm still pretty early in my recovery. Yes, OM is a coworker but I never see him (we work opposite shifts and I haven't seen him at work for at least 3 months or so) so it's not really a problem. I think that if I had to see him daily, I wouldn't be able to do this.

I think you're right when you say that it made it a little easier since you and your OM lived a ways apart from each other. That has probably been one of the hardest things for me since it's such a temptation to not drive by his house or his W's house and check up on him. If he lived a long ways away I think it would make it a little easier on me. I said before that I had all these dreams about breaking into his house or going to his work and taking the garage door opener out of his car so I can sneak into his apartment and read his email. It's hard for me to have these "temptations" and then not pursue them. But, I know that whatever I find out will only hurt me and set my recovery back so I am choosing not to do these things.

I notice that on days when things are "on" between H and I, I tend to think about OM less and when things are "off" then I notice that I have a little bit more longing and loneliness. Things have been awesome between H and I and I feel like we're making great strides.

I liked the quote by Winston Churchill and I think that it makes alot of sense. Since I'm going through "hell" right now, I might as well continue going so that I can end my journey sooner rather than later. I know that in my mind I DON'T want to contact OM, I would actually have nothing to say to him. It's just a part of me that's still trying to hold onto the fantasy. But, with each passing day that part of me becomes smaller and smaller and the real me becomes larger and larger.

As I said in one of my earlier posts, I have a vision of my H that I think of whenever I feel lonely for OM. It is of him standing in the garage waving goodbye to me and telling me to be safe and that he loved me and missed me as I'm on my way to OM's house (H of course didn't know where I was going). I remember the sick feeling I always felt when I would drive away (the sick feeling of betraying my H when he was wishing me a safe trip, telling me he loved me and having blind trust in me and here I was betraying him) and for some reason I can recall it very easily, so it helps me to recall that whenever I feel a longing for OM.

I know that my H and I will make it. I am very sad by the fact that I took away the innocence of our M by my deception. I can only hope that one day we will get that innocence back and when we look back at all this it will seem like nothing more than a bad dream.

Thanks for your support and kind words Rose. You are a sweetheart....
SG

<small>[ March 10, 2004, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: chris37 ]</small>