you are very welcome <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

keep coming here for strength when you need it, we are here (and we've been there too!!)

FL- I agree with you that your mantra "It is not my concern anymore" has helped me significantly. For some reason, just saying that out loud makes it easier for me to stop the thoughts from going anywhere once they pop into my head. I think of you and your continued support everytime I chant that little phrase <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Mrsx- I think that a part of the reason that withdrawal seems to get worse rather then better initially is because it's our way of acknowledging that we're letting go of OM and continuing on with our lives without them and with our spouses. It's a scary thing because obviously something was missing in that relationship to begin with in order for us to have had an A in the first place. So, to turn away from the OM and all the good feelings you associated with the A and to turn towards your H is a leap of faith for the WS. We are scared that we're giving up our "drug" that brought us all these high feelings and that we won't experience that anymore once we let go entirely and turn towards our spouses 100%. We have to realize that the feelings we felt for OM were not real, they were fantasy based and that we ARE capable of feeling this way towards our H.

I think that has been one of the hard things for me. I'm just scared of devoting myself completely to my M and then feeling lonely, lost and scared again. I'm afraid that I'll have no where else to turn if I start feeling this way and I'm scared of letting go of OM for this purpose. It's nice having them waiting in the wings just in case things in my M don't turn out but that is an unfair thing to do. We have to continue on this difficult path and have faith that our pain will get better (as will our H's) and that our M will not be the same as it was- it'll be far better. OM was just a passing fancy, now we have to concentrate of the main course (our M).

It's difficult saying goodbye to OM and to all the memories. But, it's necessary. We were happy for years before we met OM and we will be happy again after OM. We don't need OM to make us feel good, we're strong and we're able to find those nice feelings in our M and also within ourselves. So, next time you start dwelling on OM, say the Mantra that FL and I say and see if it helps you to start learning how to let those feelings and memories go.

I'm strong today Mrsx, but I know that tomorrow I could hit bottom again. This is a one day at a time thing and when we have good days, we need to take advantage of them so we can recharge for the bad days. We'll do this, we'll come out stronger then ever and we'll find happiness that we never knew possible. And, all these feelings will be associated with our M and our H's, not some fantasy world with OM.

And, just remember Mrsx, what someone posted to us awhile ago: We don't want to strive for hatred of OM, we want to strive for indifference. Let that be your goal because if you have hatred, it takes alot of energy to keep that up but if you have indifference it's much easier to let that go.

SG

<small>[ March 05, 2004, 12:25 PM: Message edited by: stupidgirl ]</small>

(((SG)))

Thank you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

SG.....My sickness is that in reading your posts about OM calling you and telling you that he still loves you. I am actually envious <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> . I wanted OM to admit just once to having some mutual feeling for me, then and now!!! I have got to get out of this office. I can't stand having to see him everyday. I am never going to heal and I can't find a job!!! I'm feeling very anxious today <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> as if you couldn't tell. SG...I am proud of the way you handled it!!!

I just read the post from blessed assurance about needing the admission of love from the OM for closure. I'm stuck there <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> and can't seem to get beyond that. A has been over for 7 months but I have to see him everyday! God help me to get over this. I'm crying as I type this because it's so frustrating!!!!

I wanted OM to admit just once to having some mutual feeling for me, then and now!!!
Think how much worse you would feel now if he had said that.

I have got to get out of this office. I can't stand having to see him everyday. I am never going to heal
Now you know why Harley recommends getting a new job or even moving if you have to, to get away from op.

A has been over for 7 months but I have to see him everyday
And everyday you see him will be harder than the last.
GET A NEW JOB!!!

Lisa, I'm going to say the same thing to you. The only way (ok, maybe not the only way, but it helped me) is to re-train your brain that the OM is no longer your concern!!! whether or not the whole thing was a lie, whether or not he still thinks of you, no matter what is going on in his life, if you want to move on with your life,
please repeat after me:OM is no longer my concern

somewhere today i read someone mention cognitive theorpy. i mentioned this book earier in this topic, but i will mention it again, Feeling Good, The New Mood Therapy by David Burns. It gives you ways to combat depression by really focusing on the way your mind thinks and then strategies to change the way your mind thinks.

also, please understand, i really don't mean to minimize the effect having to work there must have on you. that must be very hard!!! i am lucky in that regards, the OM and i were/are not in any same circles in real life at all. the bottomline is still the same, you have to let it go.

<small>[ March 10, 2004, 07:22 PM: Message edited by: chris37 ]</small>

today seems to have been hard for a few of you, lisa, mrsx and chris. Is it the upcoming weekend that makes it hard. i know i used to dread weekends, not anymore though. i'm out of here. you all have a wonderful weekend and remember...

THAT IS NOT YOUR CONCERN ANYMORE!!!

Dear Chris, I am 'certain as the sunrise' that the OW in your life does not hate you; she cares very much for you.

However, she realized it was time to move on with her life and get a fellow that was not married.

As nice and caring of a man that you seem to be, it must have been hard for her to leave you.

Chris, you have a wife and family.
I am sure that is what she also wants.

I have come to believe that 'affairs' are not 'mistakes', they are choices that are made.
And you and she made that choice.
Was the happiness you had worth the pain you feel now? I have a feeling it was.

Now it is time to put it behind you, pick up the broken pieces of your marriage and do your best to put them back together again.

Everyone has to accept that the OPs in our lives are never forgoten; they are just put in a special room in our hearts and once in awhile we visit there through memories.

I had an intense infatuation with a fellow and he for me, many years ago and I have NEVER forgotten him; it was an exciting & romantic experience in my life...an entire spring, summer & fall.! We secretly met many times, lots of kisses! I am not sorry, it was truly wonderful and my marriage survived. (Thank God)

Then in August, 03 I found about my husband's PA and it has been a very hard struggle but we are slowly healing! (His OW found another sweetie and dumped him so he has had a hard withdrawal, I think because of my feelings for my OM, it gave me an understanding of what he was going through.
Love, Julie

Chris37- I am sure, just as Blessed Time thinks, that OW doesn't hate you. She probably really hates the situation and how it turned out but she doesn't hate you. I'm sure that you will always hold a special place in her heart just as she will in yours. Knowing that OM is still thinking of me made it a little better for me but it didn't really do much else for me. I thought that it would give me all this strength and happiness and the ability to move on but it really didn't do that for me. It is a comfort to a degree but then I have to ask myself how much of it is real and how much of it is just him trying to lure me back? I've decided to tell myself that no matter if I ever heard from OM again (this was before he called) that I would know in my heart how I felt and I would choose to believe that he felt the same way. I didn't allow myself to think otherwise because those thoughts don't do anything but make you dwell on OP. You shared alot with OW and she is thinking of you just as much as you're thinking of her. Believe me.

Another thing I discovered is that even after all this pining away I've been doing of OM and all the control it has taken me not to contact him, I didn't really have much to say to him when he called. I felt that we were in different places and I didn't have much to say to him anymore. That was a good feeling.

Mrsx- I hope that you're doing better now after chatting here for awhile. Remember, it's one day at a time and pretty soon you'll start noticing that those days aren't so hard to get through. We're here for you, just reach out to us when you need strength.

(((Lisa)))- I'm so sorry that you're having a bad time. It's hard for all of us but I think you're traveling an especially difficult path because you have to see OM. I think that if, after all you and OM shared, he doesn't have a special place in his heart for you then he really isn't worth you hurting over anymore. Don't be fooled for a minute into thinking that his life is all peaches and cream because it's not. Noone could treat others the way he does and not have it affect them. The fact that he gets to see you daily and see that you're hurting gives him the reassurance that he needs to know that you still care about him. If you didn't have contact with him daily, he wouldn't have that reassurance and I would bet you anything that he would be calling you up sooner or later.

You really need to find a new job, for your own sanity. You're torturing yourself sweetie and it's not worth it. Like I said, even after hearing from OM, I didn't get the "rush" or the reassurance that I thought I would get. I mean, it made me feel good to hear him say those things but I took them with a grain of salt because he lied to me before, what's to say he's not lying to me now. I thought he was going back to his W and his M, but obviously things aren't going well in that department if he's contacting me. I guess the thing that made me feel the best was just knowing that I wasn't the only one suffering. I liked knowing that he was suffering too and that he couldn't just move on like nothing happened and start anew.

You're a sweet person and you're far more special than anything that OM deserves Lisa. Please, try to find a new job- for your sanity.

And remember, We all need to adopt Finally Learning's Mantra and say it whenever thoughts come into our head "It's not my concern anymore". It helps, really it does.

SG

<small>[ March 05, 2004, 08:21 PM: Message edited by: stupidgirl ]</small>

thank you guys so much for your replies! I mean that from the bottom of my heart. I haven't been taking my AD's regularly over the last couple of weeks. I think that may be a big part of the set back. I have cried more over the last couple of days than I have in a long time!!! My fog has totally lifted as far as "wanting" to be with the OM. I mean that. I don't know why I'm holding onto the issue of hoping that he has been hurt by all of this even a fraction of the extent that I have been. My reputation is shot at the office where I work. I work for a brokerage firm (hence...Martha Stewart <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) and I make good money there. It isn't easy to replace this job without finding the same position with another firm. I wish that we weren't so dependant upon my salary as we are. I would rather be doing anything than having to see OM everyday and it can't be avoided. He is a stock broker and has to deal with me directly with many issues in our office. I've got to get a refill on my medicine and get back on track. Thanks so much for listening and caring enough to respond.

SG....I am so proud of you and the progress that you have made. I've kept up with you and mrsx the most on here because our situations are so similar. One day we are going to look back and wonder "what was I thinking"!!!!!!! I can't wait for that day <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> !!

Lisa- Just have faith in God and He will help you to find a job comparable to the one you currently have. Once you get away from OM you'll see how quickly you'll be able to recover and stop experiencing such strong surges of withdrawal. I believe that seeing OM's indifference each day only makes you all the more aware of the fact that he probably used you (as do most OM) and that makes you feel even more hurt and guilty than usual.

Have faith and it will all work out.

SG

<small>[ March 10, 2004, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: chris37 ]</small>

Chris- Thank you for your kind words, that was very nice of you. I guess it goes to show that we are all "textbook" cases of an A when we all feel the same exact feelings. It kind of helps to know that because then it's harder to try to convince ourselves that our A was "different" and "special".

Today is a little harder for me. I think that after hearing from OM I am now left with this openness again, waiting to see what's next. Before I heard from OM I was making peace with the fact that things were ending and I wasn't looking for his calls anymore, etc. But, now after his call I am kind of back in the place where I feel like there's more that needs to be said (even though I didn't have anything to say to him when I did talk to him). I feel like now I'm waiting to see if he calls me again or I'm back to the point where I'm trying to justify a reason why I should call him back. I hate this and this is really hard and I wish that he hadn't contacted me. Just consider yourself fortunate that you haven't heard from OW and that you don't have to worry about any setbacks right now.

Like I said, some days are definately better than others and today is a bad day. I really wish he didn't call.....

SG

SG,

I been meaning to respond but you have been getting good help. Sorry for the phone setback. It does happen but your recovery from it s/b quicker and stronger. Accentuate the postive! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

As for your previous question to me, will time heal the wounds of the OP? Yes it will. Though that single encounter did bring back some feelings, my priorities in my life are still in tact. So is my heart. The OM was never a crimminal (I was single at the time and he was separated but NOT divorced) so he was the WS and I did not know we were having an EA. WAaaay to young. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

The point is that I am no longer in that position and my life is now filled with other more important people and things. I had told this OM that if he ever saw me walking down the street to cross over to the other side. This is when I told him NC of sorts.

I am glad he was respectful of me request. For that reason I have not filed his character away in the hopeless and eternally stupid pile. LOL!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Just remember to respect yourself.

L.

Please forgive a FBS for chiming in here, but stuff like the following is a telling sign.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Everyone has to accept that the OPs in our lives are never forgoten; they are just put in a special room in our hearts and once in awhile we visit there through memories.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sure that you will always hold a special place in her heart just as she will in yours. Knowing that OM is still thinking of me made it a little better for me but it didn't really do much else for me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Can you see a theme here? We all want to be thought of as having been so important in another person's life that they can't ever get us out of their hearts.

But for those that truly go on to heal after infidelity, I see a different theme. I see them as making a complete break from the romanticism of the affair. I hear the truly healed FWS saying things like, "yes, OP meant something to me at the time, but now I see just how sick and twisted it all was." Or, "I thought OP knew me so well, and now I see he/she didn't really know the real me at all."

I don't underestimate the pain of anyone going through the withdrawal of any relationship. But I hope that you all can see that you are still talking yourself into believing that the relationship with OP was somehow more "special" than the relationship with your own spouses and therefore deserves a little corner of your heart for time immemorial.

Such thoughts and lip service may serve some purpose of protecting your egos, but in the quest of healing your marriages, I think this sort of thought-seduction is very damaging. You need to curb it at every instance and after a while, you will begin to see just how untrue such mental machinations are in the light of reality. Then you'll be getting someplace.

Just trying to gently call a spade a spade. Any and all 2x4s are welcome.

Edited for Typos.... changed FBS to FWS. Also added sentence.... "you need to curb...."

<small>[ March 06, 2004, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: Snowbelle ]</small>

<small>[ March 10, 2004, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: chris37 ]</small>

Orchid- Glad to hear that OM no longer has the same effect on you as before. I know that I have a bunch of wonderful people in my life to help fill any voids and it does help but there is still that stupid "hole" that I feel that I selfishly let OM fill. I definately have more "on" days than "off" days and that is helping alot. Thanks for your support and for posting, it helps knowing people care.

Chris- Thanks for the advice on making a list of good traits of H. I have actually done that and in black and white it looks so obvious, but why is it so hard to convince our hearts that? All I can say is consider yourself lucky that you haven't had any contact with OW because it will set you back- believe me. As I said before, now I'm left with wanting more (just when I was starting to pull myself out of this). It sucks, it really sucks.

Snowbelle- I know that the ultimate goal is to have indifference towards OP and that means seeing the A for what it really was- a fantasy. But, do you think that it's bad that initially, in recovery, the WS tries to convince themselves that they meant more to the OP than just a fantasy and that what they had did mean something to OP? Is that a bad thing, a setback in recovery? Do you think that's just a normal feeling for the WS to have (since they shared so much with OP) and that eventually when the WS is alot further along in recovery then they'll reach the point where they no longer care if OP thinks of them or if what they shared was real, etc?

I'm just concerned that maybe I'm not doing my "recovery" right, maybe I'm doing it wrong and making it 10 times worse on myself than I should be. I don't know, it's just so hard not to obsess about OP and if they think of us. I think then since we're going through such a strong emotional fight that we only naturally want to know that OP is dealing with the same thing, that it wasn't easy for them to just walk away. Maybe we're trying to convince ourselves that we weren't as stupid as the case studies point out and that we weren't just used.

I want to get to the point in my recovery where I don't feel anything for OM and where I don't worry about if he still thinks of me or if what we had meant as much to him as it did to me. I want to get there- and I'm trying- but it's hard.

Thanks for your input Snowbelle and I agree with you that that is where I want to be in my recovery, but I'm not there yet. I just want to know if I'm on the right healing path and I'll eventually get there or if I'm doing something wrong.