<small>[ March 25, 2004, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: chris37 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by chris37:
<strong> Too bad we can&#8217;t have a private post here so we WS&#8217;s could just stick to what we are going through and try to help each other. Chris </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Unless trying to "help each other" ends up being a pityfest about how much you miss the OM, then it's not very productive.

I WAS a WW (and also a BW - so I know from both sides). I **know** how you feel about the OM. Been there, done that, and ohmygosh, could DIE OF EMBARRASSMENT. What **was** I thinking? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

What I don't understand about some of what I'm reading from this new group of WW's to MB is... why can't you see that you are harming YOURSELVES? Holding onto this "love" is hurting YOU! Taking your spouse out of the equation - for just a moment - WHAT ABOUT YOU?

If you're like I was... you are a GOOD PERSON with INTEGRITY who made a HORRIBLE CHOICE to HAVE AN AFFAIR. YOUR CHOICE. You continue to allow your choice to rule your life by harboring love-feelings for the OM, and therefore stay stuck in the drama of the affair and its aftermath - except it isn't the aftermath - it's current. You are still having an emotional affair with the OM.

I *am* sorry for your pain, and I *do* understand it - to a point. I just remember when I got here (nearly 5 years ago) I realized pretty quickly that the affair was built on sand, and my head was pretty foggy. The "love" for OM was gone quickly - because it was never actually "love" at all. Whether you believe it or not - you WILL see it when you get down the road a bit. You really will!

dear chris, i keep an eye out for you (and SG too and lisa and SS and so many others). As you know, i am a WS too. I mention that because I hope that might help you be open to hear what i am saying. I can relate to the pain you are feeling. i would love to help you heal, my best advice to you is probably still the same as before, keep working on getting thru to your brain "this is not my concern anymore!!" your heart WILL follow your brain's lead. it is happening for me so much more than i ever thought possible. of course i still have lots of fixing of myself to do, the stuff that was there even before all the mess of the last 2 1/2 yrs of my life.

I want to pass on some advice to you as you read here, i have at times gotten derailed from focusing on the work i need to do to myself and my marriage because of things said here. for me sufdb really gets to me, i can't say i have read every one of his posts but i can say, for me, i don't see how anything he writes has ever been useful/helpful.

as for pep, she has strong opinions too, and a harsh approach a lot of times. at first that got in the way, but i do find some benefit out of some of her posts so I don't have a mindset against her as much as i do with sufdb.

jl, is a man, not a female and his posts have been extremely helpful to me. that really doesn't even begin to capture how helpful he has been for me.

my point is, if you can, try to find the things that can HELP YOU and work on letting the rest go by. sometimes the things that can help you the most might be the hardest stuff to read and reflect on. so two pieces of advice. 1. before you respond, take time to read, reflect and then read again. 2. if what is being posted does not work for you at all, is not being at all helpful, then let it go to the wayside and don't worry about it.

keep in mind why YOU are here and what YOU are wanting to accomplish for yourself and your life. don't be afraid to be challanged, read with an open mind/heart. work hard to get benefit out of what you read. always keep in mind, we are all different, we all have our own scars we carry with us and we cannot know any of the people here enough to fully understand another person. and i think that is one of the biggest benefits of this board. it allows us to look at our lives from different angles as opposed to the angle we most often see, our own angle.

sufdb, if you read this, please know, i have no anger against YOU, what i said above holds true for you too, i don't know you and your life story, the scars you carry around so i am not trying to knock you. i am just saying that for me, your posts don't help me with my goal of growing and healing and becoming the best i can be for myself, my H and the rest of the world. and that is why i am here.

i know i was desperately searching for help when i went to google and landed here and I thank God for helping me get here. my focus is on using this blessing to the best of my ability.

peace to all.

well put Sheryl. i think a lot of it depends on exactly where a person is internally when they first got here. i had been trying to fight my way out of the fog and As for, well actually the majority of the time that I was in the fog and As.

Chris, i believe you will get there too and when you do, you will feel so much more internal peace. keep working!!

<small>[ March 11, 2004, 12:45 PM: Message edited by: FinallyLearning ]</small>

This seems to be "the" WS thread. You may or may not have read my story - it is on "In Recovery".

I, too, have found everything posted here of great help to me, especially JL - but everyone's view - even the very unhappy BS's - have given me insight.

I do think it would be nice to have a WS private area but agree it would be a waste of time if we used it to justify ourselves or tell each other how much we miss the OP. But it would be good to have a "private" vent every so often with people who understand where you're coming from.

I think all the WS's are doing very well - I think the very fact we're on a site called "Marriage Builders" says a great deal.

Jenny

WS (me)49 PA with HS BF
H (BH) 55
Dday 10/21/03
Recovery going well - still a rollercoaster for both of us

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think all the WS's are doing very well - I think the very fact we're on a site called "Marriage Builders" says a great deal.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">so true!

<small>[ March 25, 2004, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: chris37 ]</small>

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

hey i had one more thought. think about how you "hear" the messages in your head while you are reading. pay attention to that. keep in mind that how words are delivered, i.e. spoken outloud, has a big impact on what is heard. all we have here are words, as we read we insert the tones, work on always reading with calm/helpful tones. assume the person is talking to you calmly with the intent of helping.

good luck

Chris, Another dream huh? That sucks!! I feel like that is the one thing left of OM that I have no control over and it seems to affect me the most. I understand your frustration with the harsh messages, I finally decided to just ignore those posts and talk to the people that I really felt connected to: you, finally learning, Mrsx, Lisa, etc.

I think many people have the wrong impression of this post. Alot of them are thinking that this is a post for WS's who are encouraging each other to hold onto thoughts of OP, etc. That's not the case at all. In fact, we are all struggling to get past any thoughts/feelings of OP. I think it just helps to talk to other WS's who have been there and who may have useful and helpful information. I certainly wouldn't say that this post has been about us pining away for OP, not at all.


New beginning and Finally Learning- Thank you for your posts and for sharing with us. I think we all know that eventually we will get to a point where we will look back at our A's as something destructive and we will no longer have feelings for OP. We're just trying to help each other find that path and find our way. It's not really that we're trying to hold onto our feelings for OP, it's that they're still there and they're still strong. I know for me, I'm not a very patient person and it sucks that even after a few weeks I still have these strong feelings. I know it takes time but sometimes it'd be alot easier to just snap your finger and make it all go away. I think Chris is having a hard time with this too. He's an awesome man and he wants to forget OP, he wants to be happy with his family. He's actively trying to do things for his W that allow him to show her he loves her. It's just that for many of us, no matter what we do, there seems to still be that little lingering flicker for OP that just eats away at us. It's very frustrating because it seems that no matter what we do it won't die off and go away entirely. Sure there are days when it's nothing more than a smolder, but then there are days when it's burning brightly again. With this post we're just trying to help each other understand why it's still there and what we can do to extinguish it completely.

In fact, Chris suggested doing things for our S that we would do for the OP so that we can replace the feelings we had for OP with true love feelings for our S. That doesn't sound to me like he's holding onto OW, it sounds like he's desperately trying to move on with his life without OW.

KiwiJ- I totally agree with you that it would be nice to be able to have a seperate posting area sometimes, but it's also nice to have the support of a BS sometimes as well. I absolutely agree that the fact that we're posting on this site says alot about what we want out of our future's. Thanks for posting and for your support as well. It really is nice knowing that there are other people here who know exactly what we're talking about, feeling, etc. It's nice to be able to talk to our S but sometimes I feel like they need a break from our depression and whining too and so it's really nice to be able to come here. I would say that the majority of the WS's who have posted on this post love their BS with all their heart and want desperately to make their M's work. I think we are all here to help each other reach that goal!

SG

I know that you guys are here to help us extinguish that flame for good and we appreciate that. You guys have been there, done that and you can offer us alot of wisdom and insight. That's what we need right now- not harsh posts accusing us of pining away after OP.

<small>[ March 11, 2004, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: stupidgirl ]</small>

hey SG. I'm sorry that there has been so many misunderstandings on your thread here. I don't think that some people understand about the WS's need to heal too. To heal, there has to be gut wrenching honesty. This forum allows me to vent things that I can't tell my H because I know that it would just cause him more hurt and that's the last thing that any of us want to do. You are so right about the fact that we aren't here to condone our actions or to get support from other WS to affirm what we did. We have to speak what we feel though in order to put it behind us. I've said it before and I'll say it again, some of the BS's on here blow me away with their ability to speak words of comfort to the WS. That is what this forum is all about. Everyone coming together with different experiences and different hurts but we all have one "thread" in common. We are all hurting and need each other's support to deal. If the opinions voiced here are not constructive I don't feel as though they need to be posted...of course that's my opinion.

Remember, folks, that even the BS is here 2 heal. That sounds funny, said like that, doesn't it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I'm serious, though. I think for many of us BSs (me in particular), and those of us dealing with LONG affairs, it's hard 2 see the WS' need 2 heal, because for the most part we're working alone at the beginning. I still am, pretty much (in the sense that my FWW is not with any "program", reading any books or interested in counseling), but I've reached a point where I'm much better able 2 see her side of things and just how screwed up our M was from BOTH our perspectives. It'll take both of us 2 heal, and taking a holier than the WS stance won't do any BS any good whatsoever. ...it's still hard getting there, but absolutely necessary nevertheless.

best,
-ol' 2long

SG, Chris, Lisa, FL, Kiwi, Mrsx and others.
I am thankful this thread once again seems to be a safe place where us FWS can share our inner most feelings without fear of rebuke FOR those feelings.

We really NEED to be able to share with one another. It is therapeutic & healing,
to express ourselves and to not keep it bottled up inside.

Thanks for the message, Sue.
It is true that concealing an affair is one lie after another.
We can be as honest as Abe about all other areas in life, most of us are, but when it comes to the cover-up of the affair, it is mostly many lies of 'omission'.

Today I decided it was time to talk with a lady from church that I felt I could trust.
I told her of my affair.
She said "Sarah, you know this is a sin, don't you?"
And the answer is, "Yes,I do".

She explained how even though the affair is over, having the OM take up space in my heart, by thinking about him, is taking up space that belongs to my husband.
I told her how someone on this message board (Pep) said every time I think of him, it is like watering a plant and keeping it alive. True.
But how to stop the thoughts? And the dreams?

She and I held hands and prayed together. It felt good to share this burden with a trustworthy person. She is a dear, kind lady.
"Joys shared are doubled, burdens shared are halved."

Yet, as many of you are saying, getting these loving thoughts of the OM, out of our hearts and minds is very difficult and is going to take a long long time.

What the BS need to realize is that we not only carry the hurt from missing the OM (that gave us so much attention and caring) but we also carry the burden and the hurt that we caused our faithful spouses!
Very sincerely, Sarah

2long...you are so right about both sides needing to be healed. What I have found so helpful about MB is the ability to be able to see the effects of what I did as a FWS on the BS. My husband still holds so much in and that's the way he has always been. When I have been wallowing in my pain and my self pity, yes I need to see what my selfishness has done. I see that on so many of the threads here. Sometimes we need to hurt to heal and yes we need to get out of our own internal hurts to see how what has happened has affected our spouses too. It is painful to see some of the threads here, such as Lordsladies. There are so many others too that make me so ashamed of my own selfishness through the A that I had. I used to think that an A is the most selfish thing that a person can do...I still think that post A...but I understand so much more now than I did then.

I saw an interesting message on a church sign on my way home from work. It simply said, "we are called to be witnesses, not judges". That is so true. It's so easy to judge things until you find yourself in that situation. God knows I have had to really search my own heart through all this. I don't like a lot of things that I found there, but by the grace of God, he is doing a work in my life that couldn't have been done without going through the fire.

Hi Chris...how's it going. I was trying to go back on SG's thread here and catch up with all the posts. Are you still having dreams about the OP?

Hi everyone.
Lisa, your post was very good, it hit the nail on the head. It really is all about us all coming together (WS and BS alike) to learn and to heal. Sometimes it's much more insightful for me to hear the pain the BS writes about on this board because alot of times my H doesn't tell me his feelings because he doesn't want to "hurt me". (So Ironic since I'm the one that has hurt him considerably). So, to be able to come to a place where I can read the pain and hurt in the BS's posts helps me to better understand my H. And, I'm sure the reverse is the same for the BS.

2Long, You have been an incredible asset to this website and I value anything that you have to say. You are one of the people I talk about when I say that I'm in awe of how some BS's can come on here and still feel "love" for the WS's and want to help them, in spite of everything they've been through as a BS. You truly are one of the posters who I really respect.

Sarie- I'm glad that you found someone you can talk to. It's nice having a religious friend who you can talk to and who can help guide you along God's path. It's just nice to share this burden with an outside source (friend, therapist, religious member, etc) and seek comfort and guidance from them. Keep up the good work Sarie and keep posting here. We are all slowly getting stronger with each day. Even if you go back and read the first posts on this thread, I think you can see some remarkable changes in each of us.

SG

GloryB has a website for those of you who want to keep the fantasy alive with other WS.
This is a MARRIAGE BUILDERS SITE.
For MALE BETRAYED SPOUSE'S I think this thread is a slap in the face. This is supposed to be a safe haven for them to feel they can receive guidance, insight and comfort while trying to save their marriage. Not to see threads about HOW GREAT THE MEMORIES ARE OF OM. If this was a MALE WS who started this thread about how they miss the OW, he would have been told LONG AGO to take this topic to Gloryb. I understand people say we welcome anyone but COME ON NOW, let's keep it in perspective. The only thing this thread has done was to make friends of WS who co-sign that discussing the OM is helping the WS...naive to the fact that it is still hindering their marriage by keeping that fantasy/fog alive. JMO

Sarah (small and pretty) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ,

You said something very interesting. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What the BS need to realize is that we not only carry the hurt from missing the OM (that gave us so much attention and caring) but we also carry the burden and the hurt that we caused our faithful spouses!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What you need to remember is you are NOT the victim in this situation.

Most posting here acknowledge that it is no bargin to be the WS. However, as your quote amply demonstrates, thinking that you are the victim because you are missing the OM won't work. Hence some of the comments you have received on this thread.

Please think about this. The situation you find yourself in, that your H finds himself in, and even your OM finds himself in, is a direct result of your decisions to lie and betray your vows.

It is understood particularly on this site that withdrawal is a fact of life when an affair happens. But, what was sensed by some, me included, was that people were wrapping themselves in the cloak of victimhood. During this discussion of the missing OP. Not all but some.

Perhaps I was wrong. I hope I am. But, a quote like you made suggests that I may not be. Now here is the issue. It should really make no difference to you what I think, but it should make a difference to you what your H thinks and how you are thinking about OM. If I am sensing these things and others are as well, rightly or wrongly, then perhaps your H is also sensing them. Clearly, you are with your focus on the OM, who has ostensibly moved on to a new woman and new life. Wrapping yourself in victimhood will NOT help you and surely will not help your marriage or your H.

Just a thought to consider.

God Bless,

JL

Trying2_4give-
Why don't you post this message directly to those WS's that you feel are trying to keep the fantasy alive with the OP? I don't think it's fair that you come here and say something like that to all the WS's who have posted here. I, for one, am certainly not trying to keep the fantasy alive. I've told my H about the A, I've established NC and now I am actively working on trying to comfort my H and heal my M. GloryB is for those WS's who still want the A and are still trying to justify the A.
Again, I think you should direct this post directly at those WS's who you feel are trying to keep the A fantasy alive, because I don't think there have been any posts on this thread that imply that.
SG

I am very wary of entering this discussion again because I don't want what I say to be misunderstood. However, here I go.

Speaking for myself I can only say that if I could wake up and find OM had been completely erased from my mind it would be wonderful for both H and me.

Our MC asked my H if his feelings of anger, betrayal and hurt could be switched off if he thought it upset me that he was feeling them. He said no they couldn't. She said to him "J also has feelings she is dealing with, she can't just switch them off but coming here she will learn to let them go and reconnect completely with you." and that is true - the woman is amazing.

I DO NOT want to keep the A alive, I DO NOT want contact with OM, I am on this site and this board because I want to make my marriage a 100% commitment again and share again all the love and happiness we had and I KNOW this will happen.

It is unbelievably helpful to "talk" with other WS's TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT LETTING GO OF ALL THOUGHTS OF OM not keeping the "fantasy" alive. The BS's on here have also shown me so much about my H is feeling - he tries to put a brave front on things to avoid conflict and LB's but it is never far away from both our minds. If I hadn't come on this site or gone to our MC, we wouldn't have made it this far.

Jenny

I personally had no problem with trying2_4give's post. I hear his pain. I can completely see how some of the stuff that has been written here would feel like a slap on the face to him. I can easily read his post and understand his frustration that he is venting and his need to do so. I also know not to take it personally because I know it is not meant for me.

trying2_4give, SG's suggestion that you directly speak and challange the posters you feel need to be challanged and hear what you are saying is a very good one. I think it will serve 2 purposes then, allowing you to vent and possibly helping the specific people you think need to hear your message. swinging 2x4's are neccesary sometimes, the point is swinging it at the right person instead of just all around might be more effective.

by the way, i am sorry you are in pain and you are needing to be here. i hope recovery and peace come your way.