I wanted to post an update. I got a bit derailed in the middle of the week due to something that happened at work and then by getting caught up in some unproductive (at least for me) posts in the "I chickened out" topic. Actually, yesterday I was at a point of just washing my hands completely of this site but I don't want to do that. I am learning too much here and I know there is much still to learn.

However, I am just not comfortable with sharing what I have written right now. I mostly wanted to let those of you looking for an update to know that I am still here. I am very torn with what more to share right now. I will not be online again until monday when i go to work. I'll be back then.

Well, I cannot wait to hear from you on Monday, then.

I think it is fine that you don't want to share your thoughts and writing with us right now. I think that as long as you don't want to share, you shouldn't feel pressured. If I added to that pressure inadvertently, I apologize. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

This is something you need to do at your own pace and in your own time. It will feel right eventually, and you will know. I believe that.

Take heart, do what you need to do, and come back when you can. With your "head" (since we cannot really "see" you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) held high, knowing you are doing exactly what you are supposed to be doing, at exactly the right time.

My thoughts and prayers are with you. You are awesome.

Hugs and love, Amy

thank you very much for the vote of confidence Amy. You were/are not the source of added pressure. you are extremely helpful. Although doubts try to creep in constantly, I really do believe I am exactly where I am supposed to be right now.

P.S. As you can see I am online before monday. We were going to go out to our vacation home yesterday but it got too late. I hope we go out after everyone wakes up this morning. The weather is awesome here and the kids don't have school tommorow, although I still have to work <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

That sounds so fun! I wish we had a vacation home. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well, you do have my vote of confidence. I wish I could give you more.

I will follow your posts, stay with your story, and give you the best input I possibly can.

And be your best cheerleader.

Maybe you wonder why I am so supportive of you. Maybe you don't, but I will give you a short version anyway. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I have made mistakes in my life that I am not proud of. Some have hurt others, some only me.

But mistakes cannot be taken back, unfortunately. All you can do is search your heart to find the best way to repair damage, learn, move on, and become better for making the mistake and having to learn the hard way.

I honestly feel that is what you are doing. That is all I expect from anyone, including myself.

Have a great day.

Love, Amy

I want to keep posting, keep learning, keep growing, but it has become very hard. my normal mode would be to completely isolate. i have fought off doing that by at least posting here on other prople's topics. thank you to Roman for asking me how i am doing, i'll attempt to answer that question.

i've tried to crawl out from behind my shell and become more vunderable to my H but i don't get far before i fall back. which is totally my issue and not at all his fault. i wrote a really honest (or at least i thought it was honest) note to him last sunday, honest and encouraging. full of my desire to be close to him, give to him. i wanted to read the note to him instead of having him read it himself, but after it was written i was feeling so uncomfortable, vunderable, and with the kids around we didn't have the ability to have me read it so he read it and he liked it, told me it was nice, very positive. but i remained very uncomfortable and then i found something to be hurt about so i could crawl back in my shell, i am more comfortable feeling hurt than feeling vunderable. which of course somewhat undid the good the note could of done.

I guess i have not posted much about me because i feel so hopeless. i suppose it will sound like i am on a pity path but that is not really it. at least i don't think it is. i don't feel sorry for myself, i don't feel like H is wronging me or the universe is wronging me, i just have this underlying hopelessness feeling.

nothing less than confessing can really result in authentic/intimate relationship with H, but given the nature of me, i'm not sure i am capable of being in a true authentic/intimate relationship with anyone anyway.

So many people here were involved in extra-marital relationships with people they were in love with, or at least thought they were in love with. with someone they became very vunderable too. that was not the case with me, my A was with a person i met in a chat room for the sole purpose of finding someone to have sex with. we did not have hours and hours of opening up to each other before deciding to meet. we decided to have lunch during that very first chat, and we had sex within the week. pretty ugly.

i dont know what point i am trying to get at. i guess that even in my fantasyland i could allow myself to be vunderable. and i still cannot.

FL,

Why don't you let your H know what you are struggling with. Why don't you tell him why you wrote the letter. Tell him why you sort of found a excuse to pull back from him. Explain to him your deep fears. How you are more comfortable feeling hurt, so that you have an excuse to go back into your shell.

He is not a counselor which it sounds as if you need to address this issue, but he is your H. He does seem to love you. He responded postively to your letter. He is no doubt confused by you coming out of and then going back into the shell.

Explain this too him. Let him know when you withdraw it is NOT him, but you panicking, and that he should come get you out of your shell and hold you. FL, he can help you, IF you will tell him what is going on.

You see I read your words, and I can understand everything you say, but truely I cannot understand it. Consider your H, he doesn't know about your fears, the shell, and he certainly doesn't understand it, so how could you help. You have placed him in an impossible situation. Remove him from it, and I am thinking he will help. He cannot read your mind, much less understand some of what drives you. You have to help him.

Take what you have posted here, rewrite it to him, explain and expand on your thoughts and ask for his help when he sees what he surely feels is his fault. Let him know it is you struggling with your own issues, NOT HIM.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

FL

Just a thought. Have you considered making this dreaded confession in the presence of a marriage counselor? It seems it would be a safe environement, and a quality counselor might be able to help deal with emotions/responses you might not have expected, and give some direction as to what to expect after.

I have read your threads, and I know you are agonized with this decision. I am certain your heart is in the right place, so I have the feeling the outcome may be pleasantly surprising for you.

Best wishes

SD

This is what i wrote to him...

2-28-04
Lord, Help me write clearly. Help m express my love here.

Mike,
YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG! If my words stumble please re-read that first sentence. This entry is not about me trying to explain my feelings. This entry is about you. This entry is about my concern for how you are doing. This entry has been made possible because I am acknowledging that I have been selfis in my actions. This entry is about me, with God's help, trying to grow and make ammends.

Our early marriage: I have come to realize taht maybe I didn't trust you deep down. I don't mean trust that you would be faithful. I dn't mean trust that you are a good person. I married you because I knew you were a good person (a great person and you still are). I think deep down there was a lack of trust for the universe in me. What I got out of my childhood was that I should only count on myself. That is an unhealthy way to come into a marriage especially because I didn't even know that is how I believed (this entry is not about beating myself up either. I know I had/have good qualities too.)

We grew apart. This entry is about me telling you on paper and concretely that I accept my part of the responsibility for that happening.

You are a different person than me. You had a different childhood. You came into our relationship with your own strengths and weeknesses due to your life experiences. Mike, I would love to know more about your insides. What hurts you, What makes you feel good. I really hope we continue to open up to each other and have deeper conversations about our insides. But that is still not what this entry is about. (I sure hope I figure out what this entry is about before the end of the entry!!)

I believed I did everything I could to improve our marriage and that you completely refused to be a part of it. I underlined "I believed" because I realize that was my belief, my perspective and not a "truth" like a truth of "the syk is blue". Even that may not be a "truth" (if you think back to Miracle on 34th st).

I realize now that I only did everything I could based on who I was. And I don't think who I was was really able to do everything possible to fix a marriage because I would of held back making myself truely vunderable to you.

There was selfishness in my actions. Not because I wanted to be selfish because I am a bad person. But thre still was selfishness there. Maybe that is what this entry is about. Me telling you I want to give you my best.

When I first woke up I was thinking I wanted to express to you how I had such a long week and how I needed from you. I needed this or I needed that... right now I don't even know what I could of written to describe what I needed. But what I realize now is that what I need is to give to you.

Have you noticed a change in our sex life? It is ok if not. This is what I have felt thought. I have this need to give to you. I sometimes worry it is moving in an unhealthy way. But I don't really think so. I really like giving to you totally and completely offering myself for your pleasure. I love feeling your enjoyment which is why I like feeling your hands on my head and back. The more I completely give the more intensely wonderful it is when we make love. Hence demonstrating the "truth" the more you give the more you recieve.

Yet I feel I have not been as succesful on the emotional level and I realize I am not giving the same way there. I am still acting in a more selfish way. "Explain, Explain, Explain what I need from him" and although I do think that is necessary for couples to do. That is not what this entry is about. It is me telling you I want to give to you emotionally. I know how to succesfully give to you physically no help needd there. But I need help learning the best ways to give to you emotionally. And maybe I need you to kno wthat is what I am attempting to do.

I realize how hard you worked these past few years while I completely checked out. At that start of the marriage, I unknowingly unintentionally acted in selfish ways. But for a good 2 1/2 year. I conciously wanted nothing to do with us. OK, I know that sounds harsh and probably too harsh. I didn't walk, so some part of me was still open to being close to you. You worked hard on pulling me back in. Now I want to understand what that did to you and how I can give back. I want to thank you for your love. And I want to give until I can feel your emotional happiness as intensely as I feel your physical happiness.

I love you Mike and I want to share my life and myself with you completely and totally for your pleasure till death due us part. That truely is what I have alsway wanted and the reason I married you. With God's help, and yours, and min this marriage can keep growing and become what God intends it to be.

I Love You,
Karen

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why don't you let your H know what you are struggling with. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have been trying to do that. In fact two nights ago i was even smart enough to do it on the couch BEFORE we went to bed (if you recall, i find myself most able to talk in bed, but i take long to get words out and sometimes he will drift off to sleep). I said those exact words about how i was feeling vunderable and extremely uncomfortable so i retreated back by finding a reason to feel hurt instead, that i am more comfortable feeling hurt than vunderable. he didn't respond much. i might not have been clear enough. of course his lack of response was hard for me to interpret.

but, after posting here last night, i found the ability to try talking, this time it was in bed, but i was giving him a backrub and i was better at not hesitating so much. i think he understood more that it is not about him and with that knowledge he was able to pull me out more and hold me. unfortunately i had to get up super early for a mtg this morning and i didn't get to see him before leaving for work.

amy, i see you have a new name!!! and now i realize it is you going to the attorny, i breifly read your topic, i'm in a rush to get to mtg now. i just wanted to say hi and good luck! thank you for your post on 2-29. i am sorry i did not acknowledge it and thank you sooner.

sd, i think H would be more uncomfortable if it occured in front of a MC (and we are currently not in MC). i know it would be better for him if it were just he and i talking.

First, I want to make a disclaimer that I realize your letter didn't actually admit your infidelity. And that may bother many folks here.

However, I would like to state that not everyone communicates in the same ways. What might seem an easier path to some, may not be for others.

I think for someone who is as frightened as you are, feels as vulnerable as you do, that that letter was a great first step down the path of opening yourself up to your H.

I believe you have to start somewhere, especially when you feel overwhelmed with what needs to be done. I pray that you continue down your path. I pray this is not your destination, but a stepping-stone on your journey to making your M everything it can possibly be.

FL, do not apologize for not acknowlegding my post. I know you read them all. I do not post for recognition. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Silly girl.

I am thrilled with your letter. I am very excited for you. You are moving in a forward direction.

HUGS! SS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First, I want to make a disclaimer that I realize your letter didn't actually admit your infidelity. And that may bother many folks here.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you are right. the note was not to inform him about he As. but it was what i felt God was encouraging me to do. i continue with an open mind as to what the final destination is.

i do know 2 things for sure, not telling him is #1 keeping him in danger of finding out on his own AND #2 me in danger of slipping back. (OM called me last week)

in a 10 min break, have to get back to mtg now.

H and I got to have lunch together today. It was very nice. I am so glad it is the weekend. I intend to do my best to make this weekend very pleasant.

FL,

I think your letter is wonderful. It is an excellent opening communication to establish the interaction that your marriage needs. I do hope your H reflects on it. I really liked the part where you mentioned you wanted to know how his efforts affected him when he was essentially going it alone.

Ask him about that, ask him if he felt alone, if he felt like giving up. Ask him where he got the strength and dedication to continue. Gradually, you will see what is inside him and I think you will get comfort.

So tell me what did you do when OM called? What did you feel like? How has it affected you now?

You are coming along FL. Got a few big hurdles to clear but you are definitely on track.

God Bless,

JL

JL, thanks for the response, i fear H is not really reflecting on the note much at all. i do know he liked it, thought it was a good note, but i don't feel like he is really taking it to heart. i don't know if that is because words on a note are cheap to him (i asked him that, he says no) or if it may be too emotional for him to deal with, he really is not good at dealing with his emotions, he has never been one to have much emotional range and has said he feels that range shrinking even more with age.

i would still like to read the note directly to him but i hesitate. i don't want to be pushy and i don't want to always be so serious, you know?
(and maybe i fear that if he doesn't respond in a way that makes sense to me i will scare off)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So tell me what did you do when OM called? What did you feel like? How has it affected you now?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">well, thanks for asking. first time he called was on ash wed... as i sit here trying to figure out how to explain it all, i am feeling too overwehlemed, i tried to walk away for 10 min and re-group but i can't right now. so i'ld rather not even try to figure it out. i suppose it would be good for me to do it later, right now i'm sticking with focusing on the thought "this is no longer my concern".

the kids just got tucked in, i'm getting off computer to spend time with H. he had to do something in basement but i can hear that he is back in livingroom now. more later

FL,
This is the third time today that I wanted to respond, the first two times didn't seem right. I have given alot of thought to your delemma. I keep coming back to something you said.

"nothing less than confessing can really result in authentic/intimate relationship with H, but given the nature of me, i'm not sure i am capable of being in a true authentic/intimate relationship with anyone anyway."

You are being open about your self image. That's good. You are being honest with yourself. Besides stronger marriages, self honesty seems to be the best byproduct of an A. Why do you think that confessing can result in an intimate R with your H? Is that really true or are you using it to avoid somthing?

An authentic M R involves one basic element, mutual submission. Intimacy comes when two people become one flesh and mutually submit to each other. What does that mean? How can two people fully give themselves over to each other?

Mutual submission involves risk. You are taking a chance that your S will not betray you. Betrayal can come in many forms. Affairs are one way but also betrayal can be more subtle. It can happen when your S doesn't place you first in their life. Do you feel your H has betrayed your trust? Really think about it. Could you trust him with your feelings in a way that you abandon yourself to him?

Mutual submission involves unconditional love. It is the agape, God's example of love. We can have agape. There are many examples of agape in God's word. Can you love your H unconditionally? Do you think he can love you unconditionally? Agape is a choice we make, a risk we take. When we choose agape, we will love our S even when none of our needs are being met.

Mutual submission involves forgiveness. We need to forgive because we are all imperfect and selfish. Whe you risk your heart on somone else, they will eventually disappoint and even hurt you. With agape you love and with forgiveness you extend grace to your S. It does not mean they do not love you, it just means we live in a fallen world.

You said you don't think you can be intimate. I think you are denying yourself the kind of joy that can be found when you risk your heart. I know you can be intimate. God created us to crave intimacy. His strongest desire is for us to be intimate with Him.

I think one of your fears in confessing is that you may have to take a risk with your heart. Your confession will require you to throw yourself into the M. You will have to abandon yourself and risk rejection. It seems you felt rejected before your A. You probably don't want to risk that again. Do you trust your H? Do you think his change is real? I think it will take a while for you to trust him enough to take the risks that you desire. By saying you can't be intimate, you are just protecting your heart.

FL, you have alot to offer and I know you want to give it. You need to keep building that foundation with your H for a safe haven. Somehow, he needs to see your insecurity about intimacy. This goes way beyond the A. I think he will see that. I firmly believe you can have an intimate R with your H. It takes time and work. It takes honesty and risk. It takes a resolve to become one flesh emotionally, because we need to be givers in M.

I think your letter is wonderful and heartfelt. Decide to quit living in defeat when you are so close to victory. You won't give yourself fully right away. It takes time to unzip yourself. Give yourself time and keep slowly walking down that path to intimacy.

Christ's love,
Roman

(3-8, removed cuz it was too much rambling with no clear purpose!!)

roman, jl, thanks as always for posting. i am still trying to learn.

<small>[ March 08, 2004, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: FinallyLearning ]</small>

JL,

i did tell him i still wanted to read the note to him directly and to talk more in depth. he says he would like that, but he has not had time to reflect too much yet, he leaves on golf trip on thurs, i doubt we will end up talking before his trip. i think it is very hard for him to talk about his own feelings, it always has been. i wish i could understand why and help make it easier for him. I really liked your suggestions:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Ask him about that, ask him if he felt alone, if he felt like giving up. Ask him where he got the strength and dedication to continue. Gradually, you will see what is inside him</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">that is my hope, to see what is inside him more.

regarding the contact with OM. I wrote about it while at work today but somehow the new topic did not end up here. i expect i will find that i didn't actually hit the "add" button or something. The good news is, I immediately and completely turned down his offer to get together, he called me on ash wed. but i didn't say anything when the call was ended with him saying we'll keep in touch. And that ending just kept bothering me. I finally stating that I wanted there to be absolutely no more contact this past sat in an email, 11 days after he first contacted me. He was fine with that, he said me working on my marriage is a good thing. "no worries".

whenever i start to try to post on this topic of the OM, i feel like i have it all sorted out in my head. but as soon as i start thinking just a little, the feelings of sadness/confussion come rushing back in. I'm not really as far along as i keep wanting to think i am <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

i feel like i am slipping backwards, i'm becoming less and less sure about the concept of telling H about As. Although i do feel good about what i wrote him recently and about how we are interacting with each other for the most part.

but time keeps marching on...

i am nervous about being alone friday night, both kids have overnight plans now, one at a church retreat, the other just got a slumber party invite, H will be on golf trip. I am helping at the church retreat for part of the evening, but then i will be home alone. my biggest fear is that i will give into temptation to go on internet under the concept of just playing a game or two of backgammon. but i know me, i cannot trust myself on the internet. i want to tell H that I am nervous, but how can I??

help.

i am thinking i should talk to him about my internet addiction, he knows a little about this already, including how it used to include having inappropriate conversations with other men, but he thinks that ended long ago. what ended long ago were the sleepless nights when i was on computer till dawn. but i am guessing he does not realize it is an ongoing battle.


right now this is what i am thinking...

i'm going to tell him tonight that i want him to know my concern about being home alone and feeling worried that i will get online. and that i want to be held accountable for sticking with the no more internet rule. (of course i'll have to explain to him that i started a no more internet rule on 1/12 when i deleted the last of my screen names) i am going to be honest about how much inappropriate conversations i have had in the past.

to those that know my story the most and have followed what i have and have not done so far... please tell me your thoughts.

FL,

I think you should tell him and ask him for help. With regard to your H's golf outing, is he in a room by himself? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Is he close enough for you to drive out for the night and be home for the kids the next day? Am I planting ideas in your head? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You are moving along FL, and you get practice talking to him,you will be able to say more. As for him being reluctant to speak about his feelings most men are?

Why? Well there are many theories on that. I can offer you a few to consider.

1. He does not have practice at speaking the language of emotions.

2. He was trained, as most boys are, to hide his feelings and never show weakness.

3. He fears you may think of him as a strong person and if he speaks of his feelings and fears you will no longer think of him as strong, and lose respect for him. He may think that the ONLY reason you love him is because you think he is strong.

4. He may fear that if he discloses what he feels to your that you might discuss it with your friends.

There are many reasons fear disclosing their feelings, but these are a few. Do any of them seem to match your H?

Now reflect on this. Do you see any of these reasons floating around in your reluctance to tell your H about the A's? You need to address them.

Speak to him about your internet addiction and in appropriate contacts on the internet. Tell him of your fears and your sense of weakness. Don't ruin his golf outing, but ask him to call you or you call him. Perhaps you can indeed meet him Fri night, and be gone by tee time on Sat. I don't know. But, be creative and talk with him.

God Bless,

JL