You have all suggested that it is important that I expose my H's A to the OW's H (especially since I now know their contact continues). How do I go about doing this? I know his name, home phone, and address but I don't know where to even begin.

First, I know this is going to irritate my H? Isn't this a LB?

Second, do I just pick up the phone and say "surprise"? Give my name? Provide concrete info? How much detail do I give?

What do I do if the OW answers the phone or if one of his kids does and asks who I am. He works (don't know where) so I'd have to call him in the evening and she'll be home then also. Come to think of it, so will my H so how will that work?

This is really hard for me. Yes, I think he should know his wife is cheating. Yes, I think she should be held responsible for her actions. Yes, I hope this will help my H to stop his contact with her (although, I must admit I'm not sure it will). I am using every ounce of strength I have to get through my feelings about my H's A. I'm trying to follow Plan A but knowing my H is lying about continued contact is making it EXTREMELY hard for me to continue to fill his LB (I was doing very well meeting his EN...I think...until the other day when I found out contact continues. I know I'm not doing well now).

I don't know this man and I don't have any strength left to give to him when I crash his world with this information. Is it wrong of me to just want to tell him and have that be my only contact with him?

And when all is said and done how do I tell my H that I've done it? I would have to assume that the OW will contact my H about it and I would think it would be better if I told him first, right? Any support is helpful. I'm sure my H will not be pleased so how will we get through that?

Thanks to everyone.

confused,the purpose of Plan A is to END THE AFFAIR, not to enable or help hide destructive behavior. Harley said to do everything short of taking out a billboard. I would tell the OMH and not tell your H. Let him find out on his own. If there is nothing wrong with having an affair, then he should have no problem if you tell everyone. Remember, it is HIM that has something to be embarrassed about, NOT YOU.

I would advise you, though, to tell everyone whom you intend to tell in one fell swoop. If you are going to tell others, get it all over in one fell swoop so you are dealing with one lovebuster instead of 5.

As far as calling the OWH, I would call the house when you think he is there from a payphone or other phone that will not show your caller ID. Just ask for him and tell him that you have evidence that your H is having an affair with his W and ask if he would like to meet to discuss the details or if he wants to hear the details now. Whatever his answer, give him your name and phone # and tell him he can call you. You are obligated to tell him whatever you know about it. I would also hope that you could both stay in contact in order to help each other and I would suggest you refer him to Marriage Builders for help.

Why would your H not be pleased about this? Surely he does not expect you to help him hide his secret?

I sure wish you could find out where he works. Any chance you could find out?

MelodyLane - thank you for your help. I don't know how I would go about finding out where he works. I know the OW (not well but she is my H's boss) but I don't know a lot about her and I know even less about her family.

I suppose it would be better to meet with OW's H but we have recently moved and I'm a 4 hour drive from him (meaning my H is 4 hours from OW...they continue contact via emails/instant message/phone. Business trips allow for physical contact). Any contact with OW's H would have to be done by phone.

You really think I shouldn't tell my H if I do this? Isn't that being 'sneaky' and lying? I don't think I've ever lied to my H and I've always told him that honesty is the most important thing to me.

I told my sister and brother in law everything a few days ago. My H knows I told them and says he's okay with it. My S and BIL were at my house today (BIL helped my H with home repairs) and all seemed to go okay. I don't have intentions of telling anyone else.

Again, I appreciate your advice.

<small>[ February 28, 2004, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: confusedbymoc ]</small>

Well when I told OW's H, I just walked down the street and knocked on the door and asked him if I could speak to him a minute. OW was home. I didn't care.

Don't tell your H. Just do it. He will find out from OW quickly. What they are trying to do is fool you and OW's H. Why would you not tell him? This is something he needs to know.

Call him from a pay phone. Just keep calling. If OW answers, ask to speak to her H.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by confusedbymoc:
[QB]
You really think I shouldn't tell my H if I do this? Isn't that being 'sneaky' and lying? I don't think I've ever lied to my H and I've always told him that honesty is the most important thing to me.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, you shouldn't tell him, your marriage is not in recovery - it is in CRISIS. However, if he asks you proudly tell him that you did. Radical honesty is part of our recovery program, not something that you use to HARM your position when your WS is actively destroying your marriage. You don't use honesty to UNDERMINE your attempts to end the affair and protect yourself from him.

It sounds like you will have to just call the OM and speak to him. Do you know what the OW's working hours are? Maybe you could call when you know she is at work.

I would also consider calling HER BOSS if the affair doesn't end. Or maybe send her a nice little email after you notify her H that if contact doesn't end you will be contacting HER BOSS. In most companies that is sexual harrassment to have an affair with a subordinate. In my company we lead executives off the premises by a security guard when it is discovered they are having an affair.

I would also strongly consider Plan B if your H wont' stop contact. He will never recover from his affair and your marriage will not recover until contact is ENDED.

I'm glad you are getting ready to tell OW's H. He needs to know and it will end the A...or at least it will be the beginning of the end.

I told my H AFTER I notified OW's H. I felt that I should be the one to let him know. I was all about honesty at that point. Stressing it with H...telling him that's what our M had to have...that I had to have. So, I couldn't see not telling him and letting him find out from OW or OWH's H.

If your H reacts with anger...just know that it doesn't really last that long. At least it didn't in my case. Even if it feels like an LB to your H, this needs to be done. Your M is in crisis. You have to do what you can to save it.

I'm sure your H would do the same thing if the situation were reversed.

I know it feels awful and seems really hard to do. But once you dial the numbers and begin talking, everything will be okay. The OWH in my case was so very grateful and appreciative for the information. We kept in contact for a few weeks aftwards just to give each other support.

Good luck. My thoughts are with you.

Take care.

sss

<small>[ February 29, 2004, 07:39 AM: Message edited by: stillsosad ]</small>

I told OW that she had to sit her husband down and tell him within three days or I would be knocking on their door to tell him myself.

She told him within 24 hours.

My husband was in agreement that her husband needed to be told so I didn't have that obstacle to clear. But if I did, I would have handled it in the light of truth. I could no longer help them keep their secret from this man. He deserved to know. The affair was over, but OWs marriage was still suffering the consequences and OWs H didn't have a clue as to why. I could not be a party to it and I would have told my husband that after I told her husband, if it had come to that.

Because we have no contact with them we have no idea how they are now but at last we heard they seemed to be making progress. The truth didn't hurt them; it helped them.

Be very careful. I know the theory is that exposure is an important first step. But that only works if spouse at least pays lip service to reconciliation.

I know of a lady who threatened to contact the OWH. But her husband wasn't willing to work on marriage. After she told, he left her.

confused - add my vote to tell, tell, tell. This HAS to be done. Yes, your H may be mad as hell and it'll be a HUGE LB. Temporarily, it may drive him further away from you. But this is one step backward for a potentially HUGE step forward. Affairs are dirty business and this is part of the filth.

One reason to NOT tell your H your intentions is that he will warn OW who will warn her H that "Some crazy lady might call you claiming that I'm having an affair with her husband! Can you believe that?!?!! She's called all the other husbands of women at the office already. She's nuts, nuts, nuts!!"

Of course, as soon as you DO tell her H, she will have some similar defense. This is why during your first contact that you should offer him some solid evidence like cell phone records or e-mails or whatever you have.

For further reading on this topic, see the link in my sig line below. Within that post are other links regarding exposure.

Okay everyone, I did it. I don't know how I did it but I did. Please let me tell you about it and then ALL feedback is welcome. I hope I did the right thing.

I took my cell phone up to the bathroom last night and fortunately the OW's H was home. It was so sad because when I told him who I was he greeted me as if we were old friends (I didn't realize that he had met my H a few times). So I just apologized for having to be the one who told him and then just blurted it out. He was surprised but at the same time he wasn't. He said he knew that something was going on, that his W had been acting strangly and that the other day she told him that she didn't think she loved him anymore (they're getting ready to celebrate 20 years of marriage). My heart sank...will she be coming after my H full force now?

Anyway, he asked a few questions to fill in the gaps of his own suspicions and asked me what I was doing. I told him that I've had 9+ years of happiness with my H and that the reason I'm calling him is because I want to try to make my M work. He sounded a bit surprised but hopefully he'll decide to do the same.

I gave him her email address and password (where, for whatever reason, she saved many emails to and from my H) and told him that there was much more but I thought that would be enough for him (sometimes I wish I didn't have all the details I have). I told him I was going to tell my H that we spoke so if he wanted to confront his W he should to it tonight (meaning last night). He said, "Oh, I'll be confronting her right now." He asked for my number and I gave it to him (reluctant about that but since he was in a bit of shock I felt I owed it to him after I tore his world apart) but asked him to only call weekdays when my H isn't home because I don't need more tension in my house (not that I'll hide his calls from my H but I don't need more tension).

I immediately told my H and he seemed a little shocked at first but then said he didn't care. I told him that the OW had told her H that she didn't think she loved him prior to my call and he said he knew nothing about it (although so many lies...he's so good at that...that I don't know if that's the truth). He said, "Well, if she thinks she's coming back to me she's in for a rude awakening." Sounds nice but, again, he's the best at lying so who knows...

We talked some and he kept insisting (as he has for a week...but remember I know they've still had contact) that he's not leaving me and I'm not leaving him. Divorce is not an option and he will make me happy again (his words). He's been wonderful for the past week or so acting like he used to (when things were good) and showing affections. He was a monster when they were seeing each other (contact now is either phone or email). He's working around the house, helping with the kids and daily chores, and even cleaned out the garage so I could put my car inside. He says that his words will mean nothing to me (since I've lost trust) so he's going to show me how he feels for me.

My H just finished a week of vacation (he said to try to rebuild our love and family) and had to return to work today. Phone/email contact will be necessary for work if for nothing else (although we all know they'll talk about what I did...he says he'll tell me). He's asked for a transfer from under her but the person who needs to make this happen is out on vacation for 2 weeks so it will be at least that long before something happens (and I'm not even sure if it will happen then). He said he's willing to look for a new job but that won't happen overnight either.

I feel very badly for their children but I had to put the needs of my own family first. My H said that he's not interested in her...that she didn't really put a lot into the 'relationship' and that it was always about what she wanted. He said that before I found out he asked her where they were going and she told him that she wouldn't leave her kids and would he wait for her (her youngest is 9...our youngest is 1...how warped is she).

Anyway, last night I was happy for the first time in a long time. A huge weight was off my shoulders and I couldn't stop smiling. I enjoyed it while it lasted since I knew how I'd feel this morning. My heart is racing, I've already been sick, and I'm fighting the tears.

It's too bad these boards have to exist but I wouldn't have made it this far without all of you. Thanks!

Great job, confused! I hope you do stay in touch with the OWH and give him any details he needs. You could also send him to MB so we could help him if he wants help. At least now he knows what is happening. You are a good and brave woman, confused! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ March 01, 2004, 08:12 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Way to go! I'm so glad you made the call.

Your H's response was encouraging!

Now that the A has been exposed, and you have OW out of the picture, you can begin recovery and rebuilding your M. The rollercoaster ride will still continue and you will still have some struggles, but this is a step in the right direction.

I am so proud of you! I know how hard it was to make the call! You did the right thing...as I had said earlier, I bet OW's H suspected something. He did and was probably very relieved to learn the truth!


Way to go confused! Keep your chin up and think positively. Looks like you are headed in the right direction.

Take care.

sss

Thank you for your support. I felt really good yesterday but today is another stressful day. Should I be worried that OW told her H that she didn't think she loved him prior to my call?

My H seems like he's trying but at last check I know he was sending instant messages to OW less than a week ago (I have no details on what was said...I can't bear to look for anything else...I always find something and it just hurts do da&m much...he continues to deny contact). I was hoping that calling the OWH would keep her away but now that I know she was already telling her H that she doesn't love him anymore makes me wonder if she and my H are making 'plans' (my H is a master planner and after the A I wouldn't put anything past him).

I so want to believe his words and actions but I don't want to let down my gurad and then get side swipped. I know I need to fill his LB but how do I do it when I can't trust?

confused -

I wouldn't worry about the fact that OW was going to tell her H that she didn't love him any more or if she and your H were making any plans.

It's all FOG. Doesn't mean anything.

Have you heard from OW or OW's H since you exposed the A? How are things going?

Give us an update. We're here for you.

Take care.

sss

sss - you're the best!!!

Didn't hear from OWH (very glad about that) but my H did tell me that he spoke with OW yesterday about what happened.

Apparently, OWH told OW that he wanted to try to save their M and OW made an appt for MT. My H said he didn't think it would work since there were many issues prior to A. I don't really care about that as long as she keeps her hooks out of my H.

If we're believing my H, he said that he had basically a "NC letter conversation" with her and told her that he wanted to be with his wife and family (of course, because of the job they will still have contact but he says that he told her that he had no interest in their 'relationship'). He said that she sounded shocked...but remember that he supposedly told her this 3 weeks ago so why would she be shocked? I thought about this later so I asked and if I'm getting the jist of things he basically told her 3 weeks ago that he didn't want to leave his children...not really any mention of loving me or working things out with me so no concrete 'it's over' at that time. He said that over the past 3 weeks he's lessened his contact with her and lessened the 'intensity' of their conversations. He finally admitted that he did instant message her last Wed (finally the truth...hopefully my positive reaction to hearing all of these truths will make him feel safe enough to continue with the truth...doesn't always feel good for me but at least it's the truth). He said the IM was just 'conversation' with no real point. He said he wanted to see if they could just 'talk' without being uncomfortable. I told him fine but that he has to realize that for us to work he can not maintain a 'friendship' with her. He agreed.

Anyway, he also said that since I found out about the A and we've been really talking he's always known it was over with her and he wanted to be with me. I don't know...maybe this was his way of withdrawing. I think he's realizing that he put much more into their 'relationship' than she did, that she didn't mind him taking time from his kids to be with him but she wouldn't do the same, and that there is just no way things would ever work between them (the sex might have been good and the nights out might have been fun but when trying to live in the 'real world' they just aren't compatible).

I'm having a hard time with her children though. Apparently OW and OWH didn't make any attempt to quietly discuss the A. The kids know all about it. Her son (15) called her a wh*r* and her daughter (9) is struggling to understand (hasn't even learned about the birds and bees yet). As far as the OW is concerned...good! I know it's wrong of me to enjoy someone else's sorrow but she was never concerned about me or my children so...but the kids. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> They shouldn't have to deal with it.

I'm hoping this is truly the end with her. I just want to get on with my life. I'm trying very hard to remain positive and to take my H's attempts to rebuild at face value. I didn't realize how little we actually communicated until this. There is so much he didn't know about me (and I'm usually the one doing all the talking...I bet that surprises you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) and sometimes I'll say something and he'll shake his head with a 'damn I wish I'd known that' look. This board has opened my eyes so much...they should be a prereq for all couples thinking about marriage.

Rainy and dreary today <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> but at least the snow is starting to melt.

Positive thoughts for us all today!

confused,

You are right, it's too bad the kids had to hear all about it. It's not too tough to make arrangements for the kids (like staying with a friend or relative)...that's what I did when I wanted to talk to H. I knew I would most likely cry, there may be some raised voices, and the topic was certainly not for young ears (and my kids are 14 and 12). Anyway, too bad, but not your problem.

Confused...the "NC conversation" SOUNDS good, but you may need more than that. I suggest you have your H draft a NC letter (contents approved by you) and send it to OW. That way she is clear on NC and you know for sure that NC has been issued to OW. This way, OW will know that your H is committed to you and your M not just your kids.

Actions speak louder than words! I think you need to see a little action right now.

Just know that it will still be tough going for you since there will be continued contact at work. That is just so hard to deal with. It seems doubtful that they will just be able to keep emails/conversations to strictly business. Sounds like OW still wants to confide in your H about her M, kids, etc. I guess you'll have to see how it goes. Any chance of your H getting transferred to another supervisor? Getting another job?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I didn't realize how little we actually communicated until this. There is so much he didn't know about me (and I'm usually the one doing all the talking...I bet that surprises you ) and sometimes I'll say something and he'll shake his head with a 'damn I wish I'd known that' look. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL Same here. Seems unreal that H didn't really know me. I talk and talk and talk...I have always expressed my feelings, hopes, dreams, desires, insecurities, love, etc. H said he had the last A because he didn't think I loved him. I guess he didn't "hear" me because he was so wrapped up in himself and everything was all about him.

Oh well.

Have a good day today. I'm trying to.

Take care.

sss

Hi Confused

Don't worry about the OW's children, they are their concern, you concern is your H and your M.

The OW is now learning that there is a price to pay for her actions and her choices. Hopefully she will decide to work on her M.

I do agree that your H and you need to draft and send the OW a NC letter. I don't know if your comfortable about letting the OWH know about MB but you could at least suggest Surviving an Affair to him, and to the OW through him.

Hopefully your H is being honest but may still be in the fog.

You did the right thing. Be proud of yourself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

God Bless

sss does give good avice doesn't she. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thank you both for your responses. I did talk with my H the other day about a NC letter. He was hesitant at first saying that he'd already put enough in writing (very true...not a good thing to have an A with your boss AND put everything in writing). He asked if he could write it but not use her name or sign his. What's your advice on that? I figured what was the point without addressing who they are.

I do think part of him believes/believed that they could return to being 'friends' but I'm, of course, very against that. As more and more things are coming out I think that fog is lifting (I hope, anyway...hard to commit to that as I'm easily snowed) and I try to believe that if she weren't his boss he'd be more able to walk away without worry about consequences to his job.

As for his job, my H has asked to be transferred out from under her. The person who can approve this agreed to try to process the transfer but he's on vacation for 2 weeks. I've also asked my H to look for another job. He looked in the paper this weekend and said he was going to do some more searching today. I don't know how motivated he really is but hopefully it will happen. I believe (and said it before the A) that it's time for him to move on from this company anyway. I think he might be happier with a change.

Sigh...Like everyone else, I just want to put this entire nightmare behind us (and erase my memory of it). I want to be back to a time when we loved each other, trusted each other, and were truly a team. I miss that so much.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by confusedbymoc:
<strong>I try to believe that if she weren't his boss he'd be more able to walk away without worry about consequences to his job. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is EXACTLY why sexual harrassment rules and laws exist.

When he walks away from her, and if she takes an adverse action against him - he could bleed her dry if sufficient legal requirements exist. She may not even HAVE to take an adverse action - simply the creation of a chilled environment may do it. AND - a third party may be able to claim this.

I am not an attorney, but you may wish to consult one on this topic if you feel the need.

Does OW's boss know what's going on?

WAT