not a good thing to have an A with your boss AND put everything in writing). He asked if he could write it but not use her name or sign his. What's your advice on that? I figured what was the point without addressing who they are.
I don't see any problem. After all, if he says it was wrong, she really couldn;'t use it against him in any way.
She is the boss and she can't plead ignorance in not knowing sexual harassment is wrong.

If she tried to use the letter against him in any way, she would get herself into big trouble with the company and with the law.
The company would definitely want to distance themselves from her so your h would not sue them and the law would nail her for sexual harassment.

ditto Chris

He should write the letter and use both his name and her name. Explain to your H that he has NO worries about potentially exposing her as a harasser. (If blackmail were legal, this could be a LOT of fun to watch.) He has NO reason to do her a favor by concealing her behavior. This does not excuse your H, but SHE is in another whole category of trouble.

WAT

Thanks everyone for opening my eyes a bit. When I started reading the seriousness of all that you wrote I realized (fog lifted?) that nothing is going to happen to my H's job. His boss has a family to support and she's not going to risk her job to do anything blatent. When I think about it the worst that is probably going to happen is that maybe she'd be 'cold' or maybe they wouldn't have their 'friendship'. I think he thinks that they can still be 'friends' but 'friends' will mean sharing, flirting, and all the things that can't happen if we're going to be together. I guess I'm just being stupid.

You know, she called him yesterday to respond to their conversation the day before (when he supposedly told her that he wanted to work things out with me). This pissed me off! He said that she told him that if that's what he wants that's what she'll give him. They both agreed (he said) that if they're going to work on their individual marriages they have to focus on their spouses not each other. I suppose I should be happy about this but the way I see it is, 'what makes it up to her to say that what he wants is okay with her?' I said this to my H and he said that's not what it was about but if she's going to leave him alone why did she need to call him to tell him? Isn't that what the conversation the day before was about?

I'm sad today. Last night my H sang 'She's Got a Way' by Billy Joel to me. He kept chocking up as he sang and ended with a tear in his eye. It was a wonderful feeling because for a brief moment I had my H back. For a brief moment I felt what he sang was sincere and his love was also. This morning we had a 'conversation' (not a fight but certainly heading toward a LB if not a LB). I held his hand and told him not to leave for work angry. He said, "I'm trying." I said, "I am too."

Oh god, this is hard. If anyone has any happy thoughts to send my way I sure would appreciate it.

Thanks

One happy thought - this will get better. It might get worse before it gets better, but it WILL get better.

Now, back to work. What does OW's boss know about this? Will you tell us what type of business this is?

I believe you should consider informing OW's boss if things don't take a sustained turn for the better.

WAT

Hi confused!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know, she called him yesterday to respond to their conversation the day before (when he supposedly told her that he wanted to work things out with me). This pissed me off! He said that she told him that if that's what he wants that's what she'll give him. They both agreed (he said) that if they're going to work on their individual marriages they have to focus on their spouses not each other. I suppose I should be happy about this but the way I see it is, 'what makes it up to her to say that what he wants is okay with her?' I said this to my H and he said that's not what it was about but if she's going to leave him alone why did she need to call him to tell him? Isn't that what the conversation the day before was about? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is exactly why your H needs to write and send a NC letter with a copy to you and probably send a copy to OW's H too.

You don't know what their conversations have been about...only what your H will tell you. If NC was (strongly and clearly) issued the day before yesterday there would be no reason for the OW to call him and tell him that she agrees to it. There's nothing there for her to agree to!!!

Your H should be issuing NC regardless of OW's feelings!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As for his job, my H has asked to be transferred out from under her. The person who can approve this agreed to try to process the transfer but he's on vacation for 2 weeks. I've also asked my H to look for another job. He looked in the paper this weekend and said he was going to do some more searching today. I don't know how motivated he really is but hopefully it will happen. I believe (and said it before the A) that it's time for him to move on from this company anyway. I think he might be happier with a change. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is good. I hope it happens very soon.

Confused...they cannot be friends. OW cannot continue to call your H and your H take the calls. Sounds like now they are going to lean on each other during the "recovery" of their individual M's...of which will never happen as long as they talk to each other.

If it doesn't stop, you may need to notify OW's boss.

Sending ~~~~~happy thoughts~~~~~~ your way!

Be strong, establish your boundries and don't let your H make you feel guilty about establishing those boundries. NC IS A MUST!

Take care.

sss

I swear that if...NO WHEN I get through this I will be on these boards offering all the support and encouragement I've received from all of you!!!

I hear you and I will address the NC letter again. I truly believe my H is trying and if I could get him onto these boards I think we would both be a lot happier. He needs some support also and unfortunately he's got none...she would be the one he would probably have talked to about this had she not been the OW. I guess that I'm trying to do a duel role here...be his BS and put my foot down and also be his friend and offer support (which I guess is validating his fog).

I believe that she is poison though. I'm a stay at home mom and she's a career woman. I'm not trying to stereotype (so please, no offense is meant to anyone) but I've found that SAHM and career women typically don't see eye to eye on many things (at least that's been my experience). My H shared w/ me that he believed that I didn't love or respect him but only saw him as a financial support. WHAT!?!?!? It was very difficult for me to leave my job and become dependent on my H (more than financially dependent also...I lost a lot of support when I left my co-workers and joined the 'SAHM club' so I was more emotionally dependent on him also...I was a counselor if you can believe that...helping others...what did I know? Lunch was about analyzing each other) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Anyway, I now know just from talking to him that when he spoke to her about his concerns (he should have been talking to me but she hooked him right) she took the 'career woman' attitude and lead him right into the 'I think of him as a financial support'. She has no respect for herself or her H (I gather this from the things my H has innocently said about her) so I guess she feels that's how all marriages are (again, gathered from the things my H has said she's shared in their conversations).

So I'm off on a tangent again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

WAT - I'm sure she's aware of harrassment. She's in a position that I'm sure required her to be made aware (perhaps not of individual laws but the general jist...I would think). They are in the computer field. The company is hired by other companies to develop hardware/software for whatever their needs are. My H does the development and OW manages the projects.

My H told me today that he spoke with the person he requested the transfer with today (earlier than I thought <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) and he said things are starting with that. H assures me that he will not be assigned to her again and if he is he will refuse the project.

H also said that he spoke with OW twice today. All conversation was work related and he said she was 'very cold'. I hear you sss, I'm only getting his side of the story but I'm keeping my eyes open (as best I can).

Ahhh, the sun is trying to come out...maybe this will be easier with some sunshine.

Just wanted to give you an update on status of NC letter...

My H and I were talking about things that eventually lead to the 'conversations' he's had with the OW about ending the A. Yes, I see that I used the word conversations...meaning more than one...so I guess the first several weren't really ending things, were they (thanks for helping me lift my 'fog').

Anyway, he mentioned today that OW said some cruel things to him in their last conversation and when he questioned her 'anger' she said, "you hurt me and now I want to hurt you." He seemed confused by this so I helped by explaining...

First, "NC conversation" - he told her I knew about A and that he wasn't leaving his children. Turns out there didn't seem to be much talk about him wanting to be with me or even trying to work things out. More of a..."if wife comes with the package of my children than that's what I want". Hello! That tells her the door is still open for her. This conversations was followed by a few somewhat personal emails that I know about. Hmmm, wonder why she wouldn't think the A was over.

Second, "NC conversation" - They discussed me revealing the A to OWH. He told her he wanted to work things out with me. Didn't say, "I love my wife, A was a mistake, I want to be with my W". To me, this still leaves the door open to her. I told him I was angry that he didn't mention love for me or desire to be with me because it was leaving the door open. He didn't agree (no sense hurting her more than he has).

Third "NC conversation" - She called him the day after 2nd conversation to tell him "If that's what you want, I'll give you that." This is when she got angry with him because, "why isn't he contacting her?" I guess he still didn't get his point across and he's not understanding how she didn't get the NC part.

I pointed out to him that if he doesn't 'slam the door in her face' she's going to keep coming back and temptation is a bad thing. I believe that he now sees what we have and that our problems weren't really all that bad (had he talked to me rather than her we could have EASILY fixed our problems but he talked to her and she convinced him that they were worse than reality). I think for the first time I feel confident in the direction my M is taking but I told him that NC letter still needs to be written.

I did not get a committment out of him to send it but will continue to push. I think I, at least, was able to get him to see more clearly the need for it. I know it's important so I will not stop until it's done.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I could get him to take a peek at these boards? He is not open to it at all (doesn't like to discuss his problems and has had 2 bad experiences in IC that makes him not want to share). I think that even if he didn't post but just read the advice you all give it would be helpful to him.

On a positive note, I will add that my LB is being filled regularly and throughout the day. A NC letter would overflow it. Thanks for the support.

A few comments:

First, be very wary of what he tells you about their conversations. Until you observe a NC letter (that you have read and approved) mailed to her home address or observe him handing a NC letter to her, do not rely on anything he tells you.

If it's true that she has become angry with him, this is good. She's LB'ing him. Further, this could represent very good evidence of sexual harassment in the work place.

Be careful about "educating" him at this time on MB principles. A good strategy is to have copies of SAA or His Needs/Her Needs in the house for him to browse when his curiosity rises. (This doesn't mean he'll buy in. My WS used HN/HN as further justification for why she was "in love" with OM.)

Similarly, print out posts of your choice or articles from this site and stick them in the books. But do not force any information onto him.

It sounds like exposure to OW's H will be a powerful weapon. It should be done ASAP. Any retaliation by OW toward your H or YOU could be grounds for sexual harassment claims. OW doesn't know this, but you are the most powerful woman on her planet right now.

WAT

confused -

So glad to see you posted and that you sound so strong today.

I agree with what worthatry said.

Be prepared. Your H is still in a fog. It could be awhile before he agrees and sees that a NC letter is necessary. He probably won't want to read anything, or see an IC or MC, but if you leave stuff laying around, he'll eventually pick it up as he comes out of the fog.

My H never considered reading HNHN or SAA until about 4 months after d-day. He finally did and it did help get us moving in a positive direction.

Keep giving him reminders of the NC letter as he continues to tell you about calls he receives from OW. Thank him for telling you about OW calls and remind him that you guys can't heal until he stops talking to her.

Wishing you a great weekend with your H!

Take care.

sss

OW doesn't know this, but you are the most powerful woman on her planet right now.

I have to admit that that thought is what has gotten me throught the past few days. To know that she's mad because my H isn't calling her gave me great joy. I'm not one who thrives on the suffering of others but...

It bothers me that her son is suffering (did I mention that he called me to see if I would give him further info on the A...said his father asked him to call...I gave him none, of course) but what joy it brings me to know that he's calling her a wh*re. I can't imagine how much that must hurt and I can't help but smile for her pain.

That's gotten me through 2 days but I sit here tonight and I guess I'm just having a 'pity party'. I'm not feeling very powerful tonight. Tonight I can't stop my thoughts from returning to my pain. I can't stop wondering why he would hurt me like this. When he tells me he loves me, when he tells me I'm 'an incredible woman', when he tells me how beautiful I am and how happy he is with me now, is this a 'fog' also? Do we get to discuss my pain? Do I get to have a bad day in front of him? What do I do when these thoughts are racing though my head? When he touches me and inside I cringe thinking I'm a fly on the wall and he's really touching her (remember I read all the emails describing, in detail, their physical times together so I have a very vivid picture)? Am I supposed to pretend that this isn't bothering me? Seriously, how long do I live in the pain from the past before I should be able to get over it and move on?

Is he thinking about this? Is he thinking about my pain? The only time we talk about this is when I bring it up. Is that how it's supposed to be? This situation consumes almost my entire day. I took my son on a field trip with his preschool class today and I couldn't stop looking at all the other mothers (and a few fathers) and wonder which people are part, were part, or will be part of an A. Does he even think about this during the day? He says he's busy during the day but so am I and I still manage some time to think about it. How could he not be thinking about it? If he's really at NC (other than business...I can't wait for the transfer to come through) what is he doing with all of the time he spent talking/emailing/thinking about the OW? His entire attitude towards me has changed and, like I said earlier, my LB is being filled so I would think we're headed in the right direction? He couldn't fake love for me while he was with her before so is he faking it now?

I handle all of our every day money (pay the bills, keep the check book up to date, etc) so the other day he hands me a receipt from the ATM. I did some bills today and saw that he took out $80 two days ago. This morning he asked me if I had any money. What did he do with $80 in 2 days. He said he was thinking the same thing but couldn't account for the money (not unusual at all...thus the reason I take care of our every day money...we'd be broke if I left that up to him). So we all know that now I'm wondering if he used cash rather than credit cards to cover his tracks (3 charges at Bath and Body works for her, in part, led to my discovery of the A). Things seem to be going well (not perfect but better than I would have thought) but tonight my mind is racing again.

This sucks!!!