lordslady

Go to Al-Anon. You will learn how to stop doing what you are doing.

It's not helping. You are playing right into your H's hands. You are giving him a reason to continue drinking and continue the A every day.

Go to the AA website and order some Al-Anon books. I just recently read "The dilemma of an alcoholic marriage." It will open your eyes!

You need to concentrate on you, not your H.

Take care.

sss

<small>[ March 08, 2004, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: stillsosad ]</small>

LL,

Did you read my post on page 6? It is at the bottom. It is my experience about a BS who believes her WS is talking about suicide. It may help you get some perspective and help you calm down. I don't think you have been at that level yet but the point where you were then stil is bad.

L.

SS,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Some days, for many weeks, I literally got through my pain and confusion and fear second by agonizing second. I would not go back to those days for anything. But you have to live through them to get past that stage. You are stuck at that horrible stage.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I went through all that and thought I was past it. I had finally lost the constant gnawing in my stomach and had an appetite again. I was able to be calm at home. My shoulders weren't scrunched up around my ears from tension. I was starting to really function. I even felt "empowered" in a way when I did my plan B letter. And I was thanking God that he was healing me.

Then I'm not sure what happened. I guess I wanted so badly to believe that things would happen quickly that when WH called, I was hoping it was because he was telling me he was done. But my hopes have been dashed over and over by snotty remarks from him and then with the 2nd cell phone and the taking OW to a movie over the weekend. And over the last few days I've sunk back to square one. I don't want to spend another two months getting back to functional again! I don't want to lose another 15 pounds. I don't know if I'm physically capable.

And I did have one more conversation with him today. He called back after I left my D message and I DID know who was calling this time. Yet I still picked it up. He started off nicely enough--"I'm not playing games with you. That's not what this is about. Yes, I intend to break it off with her. Yes I do think there's hope for our marriage."

But then it went to "but you are unwilling to do anything for me or give anything to me. you won't spend time with me, you won't talk to me. You are cold."

I responded that I can't as long as he's seeing her. It's impossible for me to try and meet his needs as long as he's giving to her what he should be giving to me.

From there he went back to cold mode--"Okay, you won't hear another thing out of me. Fine. I see how you are.."

So, yes, it's obvious he's playing games. Even I can see that. And they hurt, and I lose hope that I'll ever have him back. I still am thinking that the best thing might be just to divorce now and get it all over with (but I can't imagine life without him.) I'm obcessing again. I'd call my pastor but one is out of town, so the other is handling everything this week. He doesn't need to be counseling me.

SS, you've been through a LOT more than I have, it sounds like, and yet you are so strong. Your faith is carrying you far. I want that so much for me. I don't want to end up in a mental ward. Satan is having a heyday with me right now--he has me right where he wants me. I need to grow up--you are right. I may have always taken care of everyone's physical needs, but when it's come to someone for me to fall back on, I always fell back on my H. Now he's gone and I feel really alone. I know you understand how I feel. I just wish I could gain your strength.

SUFDB,

As for anyone who can help with the parent issue, I'm not sure. My sis tries, but they have NO money so financially I'm the one who's loaned the money that I'll never see back. Now my finances are not good either, so we're in rather a pickle if anything big happens. My mother has one brother. He does make good money, and I hate to think how much of it has gone to bail her out, but as of last summer, he basically cut her off and called me and said he was getting out of the picture, and that it's her childrens' responsibility to help her. If it weren't for my dad's mental state and the fact that I feel so sorry for him for all she's done to their situation, I'd let her fall and file bankruptcy and all that. But until dad is so far gone that he doesn't realize what is happening, I can't do that. It would kill what remains of his pride. He was a really good man. She is very selfish and (I'll compare it to alcoholism) feels the world owes her and refuses to take responsibility for anything she's done. It's always either someone else's fault, or she "deserves to have a little fun".

I feel caught between a rock and a hard place. One of the 10 commandments: "honor thy father and thy mother." If I let her fall on her face, I'm not honoring her. If I take her in, I just as well commit myself right then and there to an institution, because she and I have NEVER been close and we'll drive each other crazy. I had her for one week after her hysterectomy two years ago and I was ready to jump in a lake by the end of the week. Right now I'm avoiding her phone calls because they are either asking for money or asking what's new with WH and myself.

As for doing something for me, I wanted to take a painting class. Right now, no time. Need to start exercising--bought DVD's--but am too tired when I get home late at night to do them (and NO, NOT a morning person, so don't EVEN go there!)

The only nice thing I'm doing for myself every two weeks that I didn't before (and it's really a dumb use of my funds) is getting my nails done.

LL

Orchid,

Yes, I did read your reply about the WS and the suicide scare. I read it, I believe, just after I got back from my wild goose chase last night.

I think the problem is this: I've been WH's mother for 23 years. I still protect him like a child, and that is stupid. However, even stupid habits (like my total anxiety breakdowns) are hard to break. I would just die if something happened to him and I could have prevented it.

The thing that I have GOT to learn is that I can't protect a 39-yr-old man all the time. It's a beliefs thing, too. I want so much for him to not walk away from God and destroy his life, and I can't deal with the thought of someone I love so dearly spending eternity in an awful place.

But again, I can't change that. I know that in my mind, but my heart is having a hard time accepting it.

It gets back to all that SS said about surrendering to God.

I need to work on that "things I can control vs. things I can't list". It's funny someone brought it up. It was the same thing my pastor had me do when I was freaking out after 9/11 about what might happpen. I found there was actually very little that I COULD control.

BTW: there have been no more calls to or from WH today. I think he'll be pretty silent, at least for a while. He was very angry. My fear is, of course, that he'll be silent forever. (Remind me--that's one of those things I can't control.)

LL

Well LL the fact that you realize he was expecting you to mother him instead of being his W and partner, is a turning point. Knowing that you can not and should not be his mother will help you move forward. It may mean he will walk away from all that is good. Some are just not smart enough to know better. But that in itself does not mean the end of the world.

It was hard for me to let go also but when I did, it brought relief. I realized I love my H but not the creature he had morphed into. As long as he was this creature, I was NOT going to mother an alien. LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Hope this helps.

take care,
L.

It may mean he will walk away from all that is good. Some are just not smart enough to know better. But that in itself does not mean the end of the world.


I know, he may find another mother. I was also his best friend, or so he said up until a few months ago. But even if that was all I was, and perhaps never had the real wife/lover relationship, I'd rather have what I had with him than nothing at all.

If I'm a mother, not a wife, do you think that lessens the chances of him letting OW go and coming back to me if I do better on Plan B?

Why are you so afraid of him not coming back?

Where is your righteous anger?

I pine after my WH also, but not to the point I cannot control myself. I don't WANT him to know how badly I want him back right now. I am righteously angry at his lack of remorse for the pain he has put us all through.

I have pity and compasison for him, but GEEZ! LL, I have seen your family portrait. You are not ugly. You look like a competent, attractive, healthy woman (I realize you are on the thin side now, but you will get your appetite back eventually).

Don't you deserve better? Put your hand up to the memory of him; say, "Talk to the hand!"

Your memory of him is not who he is right now. He is a crazy person with a lot of power to hurt you. Power you give him. Take your power back.

I have not been through more than you. First, this is not a competition, and everyone has their own demons. Second, your WH is an alcoholic, and I am grateful I do not have to deal with that with my WH.

You do have a tough road ahead of you. But you CAN do it. You just have to wrap your brain around what will be required. You need to visualize how you want your life, and stay focused on that. Only do things that can make that happen.

OK? I want the list, missy! Get busy!!!

Lots of love and support and HUGS!

SS

SS,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Why are you so afraid of him not coming back?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you want the full list or just the abbreviated version? I guess I'm afraid because I still can't envision my future without him in it. (or did you mean why don't I think he'll come back?)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Where is your righteous anger?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know. I think it ran off with my boundless energy.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't WANT him to know how badly I want him back right now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I want him to think I don't need him at all, but I need that righteous anger.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK? I want the list, missy! Get busy!!!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Working on it.... Will get it. Promise.

More later. Leaving work now.

LL

SS,

I have seen your family portrait. You are not ugly. You look like a competent, attractive, healthy woman (I realize you are on the thin side now, but you will get your appetite back eventually).

First, the black shirt conveniently hides my TOTAL LACK of boobs! This is a big hang up for me if I'm ever forced back on the dating scene (only plus--no boobs, no sag).

I do have nice nails again, though--stopped and had them done on the way home. They're nice and springy pink. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Okay, but enough about that...
----------------------------------------------
Obcessive question of the evening: If WH who has been asked for no contact and earlier in the day "assured" me in no uncertain terms that I'd not need to worry about him calling again still calls, is there hope that he still is thinking about me and that our marriage might survive?

Okay, now for how I responded. (Where is that righteous anger? I know Jesus got angry, and in this situation I do believe it's permissible.) I actually do have a very quick temper which has repeatedly gotten me into trouble (and greatly reduced our supply of plates and glasses over the early years of our marriage).

When I was typing my earlier message, my cell rang at least twice. I didn't answer it. Then my work phone rang. I didn't answer it either.

As I was leaving work, I pulled the cell messages. Both were angry and went something like this, "You know, even your mother cares enough to call and wish me a happy birthday. Tell the kids I love them and to NOT BOTHER CALLING ME. You know, all that matters to you is what you want in your little world. You don't give a damn about anyone else."

I know, N/C means N/C! I didn't call, but sent a very simple text msg (which hopefully won't come through in Chinese symbols like a couple did yesterday): "I wished you HB earlier. Kids not home. All I want in my little world is my faithful H back. battery low"

Do you think this reinforces what it will take to get me back in real contact? Or did I just make matters worse? I wasn't going to respond at all, but it was his birthday and I did feel bad that his kids hadn't called. He left the messages at almost 8pm so not sure where OW was.

I really am trying to do better with Plan B, Take #2,if it's not already too late.

I do want him back. I'm sorry I'm coming across as so needy. I just feel like there's a lot going on right now and I'm not doing very well delegating.

Need you guys to keep reminding me that God will never give me more than I can handle.

LL

Hey, LL, God'll never give you more than you can handle.

dewt

I got this in my email a few weeks ago from a buddy... your last line made me think of it, so I'm going to share it even if it is a little off topic...

I asked God to take away my habit.
God said, No.
It is not for me to take away, but for you to give it up.

I asked God to make my handicapped child whole.
God said, No.
His spirit is whole, his body is only temporary.

I asked God to grant me patience.
God said, No.
Patience is a byproduct of tribulations;
it isn't granted it is learned.

I asked God to give me happiness.
God said, No.
I give you blessings; Happiness is up to you.

I asked God to spare my pain.
God said, No.
Suffering draws you apart from the worldly cares
and draws you closer to me.

I asked God to make my spirit grow.
God said, No.
You must grow on your own!
but I will prune you to make you fruitful.

I asked God for all things that I might enjoy life.
God said, No.
I will give you life, so that you may enjoy all things.

I asked God to help me LOVE others, as much as He loves me.
God said ....... Ahhhh, finally you have the idea.


I dunno if it's relevant. It kinda spoke to me when I got it and hope it helps.

dewt

dewt,

I've seen that somewhere before, and yes, it is REALLY good and very relevant to where I am (and really where we all are here).

I have asked God more than once to help me learn patience, because I lack it probably more than anything. I want things/answers/solutions and I want them NOW! As I've heard people say, "Be careful what you pray for."

We have a man at church who just lost his wife suddenly a couple weeks ago during what should have been a minor surgery. Her heart stopped. These people are in their 40's. They have two teenage kids. They didn't expect this. They were just going on with their lives and BOOM!

Yet he was back at church on Sunday with his kids, a little over a week after his W's death. I'm sure his heart is aching right now, but he seemed calm. The pastor also read a letter he'd given him for the congregation after the service. In a nutshell, that he'd spent 26 beautiful years with his wife, that he'd seen her and his kids saved, and that even though he was grieving, he was assured she was fine in Heaven and they'd be fine, too.

I stopped him after the service and told him how inspired I was by his faith through all this. I told him we were praying for him and he just smiled again and said, "I can tell." It brought tears to my eyes.

That is faith--trust in God no matter what comes your way. That is what I want to have, and all I can do is try to hang on and hope I can look back someday and see good things that have come out of this. (Of course, he does have the assurance that his W is with Jesus now--I am in great fear of my H's eternal future at the moment and am praying that through all this, that God is working in my H's heart.)

LL

LL -

Good morning! It sounds like you did better yesterday afternoon.

I have a question. I am dying to know the answer to this one, so let's see if we can make it happen.

Your WH is SO interested in what you are doing and how you are feeling. My WH doesn't seem to give a crap about me. He could go forever without communicating with me, because of his guilt and shame and confusion.

My question is: What would your WH do if you REFUSED to communicate with him? What if he is more addicted to you and your comfort/mothering than his OW or even his alcohol? You never even let him get to his withdrawal symptoms from you!

Don't wean him off of you, that will defeat the entire purpose. He could live like that for a long time, and draw this drama out longer.

Cut him off. Period. The end. "Give up X and Z and you can come home to me and be taken care of."

I am so curious to know what he will do! Aren't you? Are you willing to go in on this experiment with me? Every time he calls, and you DO NOT answer, post here and tell us about the message.

We will all snicker and giggle and try to anticipate his next move.

Am I evil? Am I mean?

He he he he! I don't care! He he he he!

What do you think?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> SS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I think being the impatient person I am, it will be hard to post and not receive feedback right away--that's why I need a friend to call, and I envy all those guys in the Bay area who get together (was reading their thread lastn night).

But we'll try. Maybe he won't really call anymore. Maybe my text to him last night got the message through. I'm working on that righteous anger--I get it for just a little while and then it goes away again. Urgh!

I just don't want to give up hope.

And I was reading Hopeful's thread where Ark gave her some info about things she could do while still in Plan B if she knows WH will be in the house.

I can't do all of them--he'd see right through. But the part about having balloons or flowers, and a couple others sounded good. He will no doubt be in my house this Friday at noon when he drops DD off from school and picks up any mail that has come (I leave it on the dining room table for him). I'll have to think on this.

I'm still really edgy today. And of course the first thought out of my brain this morning was about WH (or rather, the H I used to have). And when I turned on my cell phone, I almost hoped for another message--and there wasn't one.

But keep telling me it will get better. I was feeling better before I crashed. I'm praying tha that I can get back there again.

LL

LL,

I am on occasional lurker on this board and rarely post, but have followed your story to some extent because it is so similar to mine. Like you, I am 38, have 2 kids (although mine are much younger than yours), have a professional job, and an alcoholic WH who makes much less money than I do. I also have "sandwich generation" issues, although in my case it is because my terminally ill MIL lives with us. Like yours, my H chose a younger, curvier woman with seemingly nothing else to offer. I went through much of what you are going through (including the sleeping, eating, and weight loss issues), and I can relate to your pain all too well.

If it gives you any hope at all, I can tell you that MB principles in general and Plan B in particular worked for me and our marriage. Over the course of his 20-month A, my H moved in with the OW and back home twice, once because I asked him to leave (but, not following plan B, I immediately began my crusade to convince him to come back home). But it wasn't until I did a true NC plan B that he finally realized that he could (and in fact, would) lose everything if he didn't radically change course. In retrospect, he himself says that is what woke him up to the fact that his relationship with the OW was based on a fantasy rather than reality.

You will appreciate more than I do the fact that the path he chose out of the situation was to become saved. It is my personal belief that my H has an addictive personality and he was able to transfer his addictive behavior from alcohol and the OW to Christ - he is now pursuing his new faith with all the time, energy, and passion that he once put into the A. As a non-believer, I find this to be an issue in our recovery, but I am extremely thankful that we are in recovery (difficult as it is) and not the alternative.
I know there is no guarantee that what worked for me and my marriage will work for you, whatever their similarities, our H's are probably very very different people, but I did want to let you know that I've walked along the path you are on, I empathize with you, and I wish you strength and peace.

LL

Where are you today? Haven't heard from you in a while. Are you doing okay? Post us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

NY

Hi guys...I'm still around. I was doing fairly well this morning after my text to my WH last night. I didn't feel it was hateful--just to the point. And I know NC has the best chance for me and for our marriage. But I'm still suffering that addiction problem to him. And now that he hasn't called today, I'm getting lonely again as it starts to get dark out, and I'm stuck here at work again for another hour or two.

Pearl, your message DID inspire me! How long were you in Plan B with N/C before your H contacted you wanting to come back?

LL

LL....Just wanted to let you know that I'm thinking about you and praying for your H. I know that good stern advise is what you need but you probably need to cut yourself a little slack too in my opinion. This is your H your talking about. I can't even comprehend what you're going through with his alcoholism along with the A. I am here to help carry that burden if possible, please know that!! I'm so sorry for what your H has done to you and your family. I promise you that one day he is going to wake up and ask himself the same thing!! You mark my word, it's going to happen.

Hang in there LL!!

Lisa,

Thanks for your support. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I promise you that one day he is going to wake up and ask himself the same thing!! You mark my word, it's going to happen

I just pray it's BEFORE he does something stupid like leaving me for good and going permanently to OW because I broke contact with him, or that he doesn't let his pride get in his way and just walk away, miserable or not, just to prove a point.

I'm hoping hard that MB concepts will pull this marriage out of the gutter before it's too late. I know the alcohol complicates it, and I read someone else's post about how Dr. Harley and a lot of people on here tend to shy away from those of us who have alcohol as a factor.

I'm glad I'm starting to find some posters who have shared my issue with it. (Not happy that they had to experience it also, but several of them have given me hope for my M.)

And SS, if you read this, sorry--no calls today from WH so no funny messages to pass along. Not sure if that's good or bad.

Heading home from work finally. It's lonely here. Time to go home and be with my doggies (since last time I called, the kids weren't there. It's lonely now that they're teens and WH is gone. I'm not used to the empty house. Maybe under different circumstances I'd really appreciate it.)

LL

Okay all--today was dark day #1, from Plan B-take #2. WH didn't call me all day. I didn't call or txt him.

Thought for tonight: Did he think about me at all today?

-----------------------------------------------
Question - unrelated: I know I read somewhere how to change the title of a post, but can't remember where I saw it. Does anyone know how?

LL