Change the title of the topic? Go to your first post, and click the pencil paper thing at the top of the post. It will say edit when your cursor is over it.

Click on that, and your title should come up with your edit post. Change the title, and click edit post at the bottom.

Done! :-)

Excellent job with the Dark day! Wow.

Yes, he thought about you all day, I am sure.

I can't wait to see if he tries to contact you tomorrow. How exciting! Remember, it is a game right now.

He he he he . . . entertaining.

SS

SS,

You be a genius! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I should have know someone who can whack a spider like you can would be the one who'd know how to change the title of the post, too.

Thanks!

LL

LL,

My plan B was relatively short, shorter than most, but I think that was mainly because I was such a doormat for such a long time, when I finally put my foot down it really sent a shock wave to my WH. Plan B was not an incremental step for me, it was a radical departure from my past behavior. To give you some idea, the first two times he moved in with the OW, he would come to our house to hang out with his mother during the day and would leave his dirty laundry in a pile in our bedroom. I would then wash his clothes! This is when he was sleeping with the OW every night, and could only be bothered to find one, maybe two hours per week to spend with our kids (both under age 3). I was the worst enabler and he took full advantage, a real cake-eater. I honestly think he believed I would wait forever, allow him to eat cake for as long as he wanted (after all, I did it for almost 2 years, and this was his 4th A that I knew about! Not to mention all the years I put up with his constant drinking.)

In my plan B letter, I told him he no longer had access to our house, I changed the locks on the door and made him pick up and return the kids and his mother in the doorway without entering the house. And I did my best to maintain no contact. It wasn't always possible (when he came to the house) but I never engaged in a conversation, picked up or returned his calls, and if I saw his car in front of the house, I kept driving to avoid him. The final blow - which was pretty much immediately followed by his religious reawakening - was when my MIL told him I was taking her to my SIL's, taking the kids to my parents, and locking him out of the house for xmas. Two days before xmas we started the process of recovery. So my plan B lasted less than a month, but I think if it weren't for xmas it would have lasted much longer. I also believe that if I had followed my instincts and engaged in conversation (as he requested in angry voicemail messages every day), it would have lasted forever.

Pearl, thank you so much for posting your experience. Your experience emphasizes exactly what I know about alcoholics, that they do not respond to half measures - they exploit wimpiness for their own advantage. They respond to TOUGH LOVE only. We are masters at working people and will do so as long as we can get away with it.

LL, please read Pearl's post carefully because her experience is exactly what I anticipate will happen if you do a serious Plan B. Your H will take no notice of a half-assed Plan B. As long as he knows he can work you, he will work you and nothing will change.

Just remember, alcoholics are really just immature children who are very dependent upon their mommies and daddies. When that prop is threatened, they get very scared. Until that happens, they will continue on their merry way as long as they can get away with it.

Been off for awhile, and took me a while to catch up....wow, big hugs.

But.....I am alarmed at how many times you have broken your Plan B. You have broken it to the point that you are not in any plan at all right now...Plan B #1 or Plan B #2...puhleeze, a text message last night?

Everytime you are in contact with the WS your Plan B starts anew. So you are one day into your Plan B. Dr. Harley says an A's natural conclusion happens on average in 6 months. Every time you contact your WH you are likely extending that time because he is not totally relying on her for his EN...he can get them from you...all he has to do is call very angry, or hang up on you, or cry...throw you a bone.

YOU ARE WORTH MORE THAN THE CRUMBS HE'S GIVING YOU. (Pardon my yelling).

And this notion that this may be your last chance...this may be the last phone call...the last chance happens before you die...and I hope you're not planning to do that anytime soon. I've read stories of people reconciling even after D. There is no 'last chance'. He knows what it will take, and he knows he doesn't have to end contact with OW...you will give him what he wants without having to end contact. You will be waiting for him in weeks/months when he's pulled his head out of the stinky place (sorry for the graphics).

What a mess, what a drama, and you don't have to be a part of it...great, you sent text messages reaffirming Plan B, but you got pulled in again, and again. Remove yourself. He'll still be there. Thinking about you? Yes, but with renewed contact with you those thoughts are probably more blaming. Remove yourself so he doesn't have you to blame anymore...

And your mom? Is there a way when she asks for money for groceries or drugs that you can write a check or money order made out to the store or pharmacy? If she truly wanted to gamble her money away, she could get a job. Our all night grocery store hires older people to check out folks...

These folks have put you in particular roles in their lives (as caretaker) because you volunteered for the job...were probably happy to do it. But...they CAN take care of themselves!!!

Once again...what is the excuse...get thee to Alanon.

Sorry so hard...not on very often now and not mincing words...

THERE IS HOPE!!! There is ALWAYS hope!

ML,

LL, please read Pearl's post carefully because her experience is exactly what I anticipate will happen if you do a serious Plan B.

Believe me, I've read it about 10 times, and was happy to see that she responded to my second question about how long she was in Plan B (in fact I feel honored I got a response--I see she's only posted like 15 times in over a year! Thanks Pearl!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

I know all spouses are different, but it does give me hope because of the similarities between her situation and mine. Also gives me hope that maybe he could turn back to God.

Unfortuately we don't have any holidays coming up soon to jump-start anything. His Bday just passed on Monday--I didn't send a card and didn't see him on it. In fact, it was the day I sent the final text msg I've sent him and have had no communication since.

SHMI,

Plan B #1 or Plan B #2...puhleeze, a text message last night?

No, the text was Monday night. And my final words in it were that "I want my faithful H back." (well, okay the final-final words were "battery low" but it was and I wanted him to know I was shutting off the phone.)

I was dark all day yesterday and have been so far today. It's hard because I feel like if he's not trying to call me (even though that's stupid because I told him not to), that he's not missing me or thinking about me. So as of late Monday night, it was Plan B, Take #2.

he knows he doesn't have to end contact with OW

And obviously he's not trying too hard, even though all I've heard for the last several weeks is "I'm working on it." If he were really trying, he wouldn't have gotten a second cell phone and a family plan. We didn't need the second phone until DS goes to college in August (which was, of course his excuse for getting it now. It is REALLY starting to bother me the more I think about it.) And I had to get into his online checking account today to see if my txfr went through--and while I was there I noticed a transaction from last Friday night to a restaurant WE used to go to all the time on OUR side of town. So I guess he's trying to make her a west-sider now. Ugh. I doubt I can go to that place again.

And your mom? Is there a way when she asks for money for groceries or drugs that you can write a check or money order made out to the store or pharmacy? If she truly wanted to gamble her money away, she could get a job. Our all night grocery store hires older people to check out folks...

This situation is really tricky. At first I started out buying the groceries or paying the pharmacy. And I have total control of the one checking account that my dad's federal pension goes in, which I use to pay all their monthly standard bills.

They get to keep their SS checks each month for groceries, gas and all that good stuff. But she got wise--now uses up all their money, probably on bingo or gambling, and then writes rubber checks to the grocery store, and THEN calls and tells me I MUST get money in the bank ASAP or the check will bounce it it will embarass my father to death. I feel bad because Dad is so out of it, so I bend and do it for her. Today I made her feel guilty though, so she called my sis who then called me. Mom is out of money and it's just 10 days into the month. She won't get another SS check until after 4/1. We're not quite sure what to do.

And to make it more complicated, my dad is mentally declining almost on a daily basis now since his pneumonia episode in late December. It must have seriously jump-started the dementia that was very mild before it happened. He was wandering around in their town today looking for her--had no idea where she was but was confused and worried. Mom isn't sure he knows her half the time. I fear nursing home is getting very close, and I hate that thought because dad is very physically strong (which will make keeping him located very difficult, and he's stubborn and is not a social person--so those bingo games and puzzles aren't going to excite him.)

As for Mom getting a job, we've suggested it, but they're in a very rural, very poor area of southern Iowa and jobs are scarce, even for people who aren't 70 years old. There are no all-night anythings down there. We've told her to go volunteer at a nursing home or with a church group to keep her occupied and her mind off Dad, but she won't do it. Gambling is apparently more fun--might win it big, you know!

(If you can't tell, I don't gamble at all. I find it a total waste of money.)

Once again...what is the excuse...get thee to Alanon.

The excuse for the last 1-2 weeks has been that I'm still sitting at work until 8-9 pm. It's my busy season and it's insane this year. If I can live through the end of March, I'm hopeful it'll get better, except I may have to start traveling again which will complicate things.

And don't worry about not mincing words or being harsh. I can take it--not easily offended. If I'm posting on here, I'm obviously looking for encouragement/advice/thumps on the head, etc.

Final thing for now: I saw my IC today again. Despite the fact that I still feel like I'm a basket case, he says I've gotten a lot stronger over the three months he's been seeing me. I said, "maybe that's because I still can't let go of the vision that WH and I will eventuall be back together again. If that doesn't happen, I'll crash big time." He refused to acknowledge the statement and just said take it one day at a time.

He didn't scold me for calling WH last week. He just asked what happened and I said, "I got hurt". I think that proved the point he was making.

I did tell him about the horrible phone call I had with "mutual friend" on Sunday night when I was fearing for WH's life and how it ended with me being very rude because I was tired of being told that I was ruining my chances by pulling away instead of basically kissing up and trying to meet his needs, and how she told me he's going to run to whoever can meet the most needs so why should he come back to me if I'm meeting none.

His response, word for word: "Her judgement sucks!"

He told me it was probably good that right now I have "divorced" her, too. She has been a friend in a lot of respects, and has helped me maintain my calm, has been invaluable in getting my DD back into a school, but in the situation with WH and myself, I think my IC is right on the money, and since she and I don't agree, I'm willing to set aside a friendship if keeping it means doing the wrong thing to try and save my marriage.

But it puts me back to having basically no one to call at 10pm when I'm at home freaking out wanting to call him or feeling like all is lost.

I know--that's when I need to be on my knees praying for help.

LL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong>
I have asked God more than once to help me learn patience, because I lack it probably more than anything. I want things/answers/solutions and I want them NOW! As I've heard people say, "Be careful what you pray for."</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I will say a prayer for you tonight. I suffer from the same issue... and have it fully justified, to boot. I think we all do. It's really unfair to be stuck in this limbo.

As for me, I'm at the point where I feel I'd be just as happy with an, "It's definitely over forever!" so that at least I could get on with my life and start pursuing happiness again. I don't like being stuck in limbo. Even more, I don't like it that my son is here in limbo with me...

BUT... that part is out of my hands. All I can do, really to keep praying for the ability to handle it for another day. One more day... one way or the other, this will have a conclusion and I have faith in God's plan and I know that whichever way the tide turns, it will ultimately work out for the best.

dewt

ps... when you fret too much, refer to Matthew 6, verses 25-34. God provides what we need. It doesn't really deal directly with these issues, but it always seems to make me feel better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

dewt,

Just leaving work. Will have to go home and check out those verses tonight.

I was browsing on the recovery board and reading one of SS's posts, and came across a link for the enneagram personality type test. I always find them fun to take to see how accurate they are. This one nailed me pretty well. I'm a type 6 which comes out as a person who is anxious, has problems trusting, etc.

------------------------------------------
To all,

A very piddly accomplishment: today marks dark day #2 of Plan B, take #2. It's a hard one for me because this is OW's birthday and the last time I heard, the plans were that she was going to a "gentlemen's club" with her friends and that WH was invited.

I can only hope that it actually happened, that she got pulled up on stage again like supposedly happened at another club before he met her, that she went nude, did awful things and made WH totally sick.

However, chances are now that I'm out of the picture, he took her out for a nice quiet little bonding experience at some other restaurant we used to go to.

(Obviously, it's killing me right now not to know what's going on. But not calling, not texting, not doing anything..... Just praying that God will get me through this and that I will not feel this crappy forever.)

LL

<small>[ March 10, 2004, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

Okay, it's 12:02am. I officially have gone 2 dark days.

SS, I'm kind of worried now. You came up with the game---lets make fun of WH's voice messages. Now, since my last text to him, he hasn't left a one. No calls, no nuthin'.

Ugly, demented thought for today: Did he get her something touching like jewelery or a ring for her birthday?

LL

<small>[ March 11, 2004, 12:11 AM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong> Okay, it's 12:02am. I officially have gone 2 dark days.

SS, I'm kind of worried now. You came up with the game---lets make fun of WH's voice messages. Now, since my last text to him, he hasn't left a one. No calls, no nuthin'.

Ugly, demented thought for today: Did he get her something touching like jewelery or a ring for her birthday?

LL </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A nose ring. Like the kind they put on bulls.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

L.

Hey there, been thinking about you.

The first few days are some of the toughest ot get over an addiction...and you have been addicted to the DRAMA.

OK, OK, they are doing all those sweet and adorable things...he's lavishing attention on her...but they are probably so stoned drunk and saying such STUPID things. Sex...puhleeze, he probably only THINKS it's good because he's in a stupor. And the only way he's able to make it through being with HER is by being drunk. Think instead about how miserable he is.

Had an idea...can you call the local Alanon place and ask to be put in touch with a sponser? Someone who would be willing to talk to you at 10:00 at night? Or have you tried the marriage builders ladies room? haven't been on lately, but they used to have chats at night...

Marriage Builders Ladies

Saw your picture, you are beautiful.

What kept me sane throughout my ordeal was knowing my H and I would get back together, but knowing I didn't want it back the way it was (or to include a girlfriend).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong> Okay, it's 12:02am. I officially have gone 2 dark days.

SS, I'm kind of worried now. You came up with the game---lets make fun of WH's voice messages. Now, since my last text to him, he hasn't left a one. No calls, no nuthin'.


LL </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is good! This is the POINT of NO CONTACT. ie: no contact! No contact doesn't mean you sit around and pine for his messages. It means you get on with your life and start focusing on yourself and your children. Anything except HIM.

LL -

Good job! 2 days. Wow.

Let me know when he leaves a message. He will. He is addicted to you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Lots of love and support and HUGS!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> SS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Good job! 2 days. Wow.

Pretty sad, in a way. Two days--I make it sound like an eternity. It does feel like it, though. Last time I blew the contact and actually initiated a call to him it was on Day 3--that'd be today now. I know Mel, that no contact = NO CONTACT. Seems straightforward. I just am that worrier who just thinks he's forgotten about me entirely and is happy as a clam with her.

And even though I admittedly blew the no contact thing, I have't physically seen him in over two weeks now. That is tough on me. I miss looking at him, too.

Let me know when he leaves a message. He will. He is addicted to you.

You guys better be right. He better leave one sometime soon. I won't return it (unless someone is dying), but just want to know he still thinks about me as much as I think about him.

I'd like to wake up some morning and not have the first thought that popped to the front of my brain be "what's WH doing?". Mel, I am pining, I know. You know how hard it is for me to Plan B (the right way). Pining is going to take some time, too, and especially with this stupid job right now, I'm not doing much for myself.

And tonight I have to seriously clean up the house! It's a mess--kids don't do anything if I'm not there to ride them. I want it clean and sweet smelling for tomorrow. Why? Because WH will pick DD up from school and drop her off at noon, and will come in to pick up any mail that has come for him. I leave it on the D/R table. So I don't want the house to be a mess. That was one of his issues. I want him to see that things are going well without him (even if they're really not). So wish me speedy workings today so I can get out of here at a decent time?

Anything else I should do with the house? This will be his last DD drop-off for three weeks. She's out of school the next two Fridays. I can't pull off the balloons and flowers thing that Ark suggested to SS, but I want him to walk in and miss our place if at all possible.

LL

<small>[ March 11, 2004, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

Yeah, change the furniture around. Switch the pictures around, or put new ones up. Help him see life is going on without him there...

And you will call if someone is dying?....nope, nope, nope, have someone else call for you. Call one of his family members to call him. He WILL leave a voicemail, and KNOWS you will return it. He can't stand to hear your voice because of the guilt and shame he is feeling right now.

BTW, have you exposed the A to his family?

Ok, first thing you think of is him???? Very unhealthy of you and for your M. Can't continue mothering him this way...or when he comes back he will be miserable again. What can YOU change about yourself to make a viable M when he returns? Make YOURSELF happy. When in your life can you not put his needs into the mix...take a break...but you're still thinking of him...ugh, you like life hard, dontcha?

I found that I was working hard at restoring the M, but doing all the wrong things, I was spinning my wheels. When I started sitting back, creating more of a partnership (that means I didn't make all the decisions) it became a joy rather than a burden.

What can you change now?

BTW, have you exposed the A to his family?

Yes, I did that right after I found out about the first P/A incident. His mom and I have never been close. She doesn't like what he's doing but just shrugs her shoulders. Her husband, his stepdad, gave him grief over it, and I don't think he's talked to them since.

His father and stepmom also know. They're very nice--invited the kids and me to their place for Christmas with the family and told me if WH showed up with OW, they'd tell him to take her home, because she's not a part of the family. However, they don't feel they can tell him what to do, because their marriage is the result of an A that broke up his parent's marriage when he was a teen.

This doesn't help--he sees how wonderfully happy they are and thinks may be he could be, too. Situation is different, though. First, as wrong as it was, his D and stepmom walked out on both marriages and never looked back--no hanging-on games played. Second, his stepmom is actually a very friendly, caring, smart, family-oriented lady. His mother on the other hand is cynical and selfish and frankly rather a cold b****. I can see why he left her.

Anyway, so it's been exposed to everyone. Church pastors know (so he no longer goes). His friends know. The ones like him just say "follow your heart", "do what makes you happy". The other one who had the guts to tell him he was making a big mistake and was going to lose everything has also now been written off. (He was, BTW, the best man at or wedding 19 years ago, so this is a long-standing friendship that he's given up.)

OW's soon-to-be ex even knows now, and all he said to my WH was "Watch her, she talks a lot of s*** about me."

WH has so many darned friends who have the morals of alleycats that I think that's what really hurts our chances.

I know, I'm making myself miserable thinking about him. I try not to. But at home there are just triggers everywhere. I can't get rid of all of them. And then that's where my mind goes.

I just have this fear that by being out of contact and away from me (and in his fully-furnished efficiency apt 5 minutes from his work), that he'll learn very quickly to adapt without me and will decide he doesn't even need me in his life anymore, even if he does eventually get sick of sleazy OW. That's the big risk of separation and is the thing I am most afraid of.

I finally bought a DVD player for my bedroom (to replace the PS2 we were using that he took with him), so maybe sometime when I'm actually home for a little while, I can unwrap one of those exercise videos I bought and use it in the privacy of my bedroom. I had stalled on it because right now our only real DVD player was in the family room and I didn't want an audience.

I'm not sure how much furniture rearranging I can do. I just did the bedroom shortly after he moved to his apt. Not much time to do it between tonight and tomorrow noon, but maybe I'll take the rest of "our" photos down or something. (Or is that mean?)

LL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong>

even if he does eventually get sick of sleazy OW. That's the big risk of separation and is the thing I am most afraid of.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The worst risk is that you keep contacting him which gives him NO MOTIVATION to end his affair or stop drinking. The more you contact him the longer his affair can go and the longer he can sit on the fence.

Every time you call him you put yourself back to DAY ONE because he knows he loses NOTHING by dragging this out. And what man in his right mind wouldn't want TWO WOMEN at his beck and call? He will never have a chance to miss you and you will never withdraw as long as you continue to play this game. \\

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just have this fear that by being out of contact and away from me (and in his fully-furnished efficiency apt 5 minutes from his work), that he'll learn very quickly to adapt without me and will decide he doesn't even need me in his life anymore,
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But he has already decided that he doesn't need you by moving in with the OW. He won't EVER learn otherwise until you STOP meeting his needs and panting after him like a puppy. As long as you keep calling him, he KNOWS he is in control and as long as he is in control he can continue the affair with no REPURCUSSIONS.

I am sure the sleazy OW appreciates your help, LL, because you are actually helping HER. You aren't doing a thing to help yourself, tho.

I haven't called, txt, or anything since my last txt to him on Monday night. That's when I said on here that I was starting Plan B, Take #2.

I'm just worrying because I'm going through the withdrawal all over again, and those thoughts of him realizing he's perfectly happy on his own and that he doesn't need me are taking up a lot of brain space right now.

If I make it through tonight (and I plan on not calling him, and I seriously doubt he's going to call me--WON'T answer if he does), this will make 3 days dark.

Then we head into the weekend which is my most difficult time.

LL

<small>[ March 11, 2004, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But he has already decided that he doesn't need you by moving in with the OW. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually they may be living together as of my initial Plan B, but until that point, although she was a frequent overnight guest, she was still officially living with her friends. He even made her take her personal stuff back to their house shortly before my Plan B because she was getting too comfortable and he didn't want to have DD over and have her see OW's stuff there. So it all went back and she apparently went in her house slamming doors in a huff.

Unfortunately, that was the Sunday before the Wednesday that I gave him my initial Plan B letter. So now that I'm out of the picture, that probably all changed quickly.

LL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But he has already decided that he doesn't need you by moving in with the OW. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually they may be living together as of my initial Plan B, but until that point, although she was a frequent overnight guest, she was still officially living with her friends. LL </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The location of her clothes doesn't change my point. He doesn't think he needs you or he would be there. If you would leave him alone he would quickly find out otherwise.