Tonight WH called in a rage. He thought I had told another Scout leader about his A with my ex"best friend," whose son is in his patrol.

He was going to cut me off financially, make me move out of the house I cannot afford, stop MT appointments. He says he has hated me this week for bringing up at the MT appointment last week that I think it is not healthy for our boys to be in the same Troop as OW.

And I don't feel comfortable at the meetings with OW there. And he just doesn't understand that. He thinks I should be able to be cordial and pretend nothing happened "for the kids." I guess deep down I wish I could. But I just can't. And he thinks I am being vindictive, and selfish, and immature.

And, of course, what hurts the most, is that he's still in love with her. He doesn't want to have NC. He doesn't want to go through withdrawal. He doesn't remember our relationship as something worth going through that pain to save.

So, we ended this conversation with him saying he'd see me at MT on Wednesday, and that it would probably be our final session. I think we were probably just wasting our money anyway, because he still gets his "fix" from her all the time, by calling, and emailing, and seeing her at Scout meetings.

She has moved on. She has a new boyfriend. She just wants to be friends with him. But his hope is still alive for after we D.

Hoping is such a dangerous business. Because no matter how prepared you think you are to be ultimately rejected by someone you still love, it is a crushing blow. I think that is what we are both feeling, in this horrible love triangle.

Please, someone tell me they have experienced this phone call before. That they have dealt with the rage and the hate and the lack of love. He said he has no feelings for me whatsoever, except this last week he has had hatred.

I can't imagine how this could ever work out. I can't imagine him ever changing his mind. I can't imagine his feelings for me ever coming back. He remembers our past in such a bad way. I know it wasn't perfect, not even close, but I thought we had something special. And even I am losing sight of what that was.

I wonder if I will sleep tonight. Please pray for me.

Amy

<small>[ March 04, 2004, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: Spider Slayer ]</small>

Dearest Amy,

I wish I had real advice for you, but since I'm new to the A myself and just beginning to understand what's ahead of me, I don't feel like I can help you much. BUT, I will pray for you to have some peace and that you'll get God's favor for whatever he has planned for you soon. God Bless.

P.S. HANG IN THERE!

He doesn't mean it...hang in there.

My WS was so angry when he found out i told OW's parents about A...he said he will move out the moment he gets home from work. He never did, of course. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I don't know what kind of plan you are in but you need a plan. Work out a plan...follow it then you won't feel so lost.

How interesting - my H is often in a rage as well. He's just like yours, doesn't remember our past with any good feelings at all. He's rationalized it all away.

I was just going to get on here and mention that my wedding picture has literally been taken off the wall - I think he took it. I wonder what that means? Not good, I don't think.

I have Planned B and I think he's just over there nursing his anger.

Thanks to all for your replies.

I am in a Plan, of sorts. It kind of follows the "Plan A your S, and Plan B your WS."

Last night was the first time since Superbowl Sunday weekend that WH has talked to me besides business or kids - besides day-to-day activities.

He said one thing I didn't know how to answer. It was actually a good question, sort-of, unfortunately, for me.

When I was talking about his feelings for OW, I was telling him that the only way to get over those feelings, the only way to begin reconciliation and recovery is for NC. He expressed to me it was too painful to do that, and he always wants to have her as a friend. I told him I understood that, and we talked about how that would be impossible if we got back together.

I told him I would help him through the withdrawal period, because like an addict, it was going to be painful for him, and he needed support. And he shot back to me, "How do I know I'm not just addicted to you, too." Basically, if I am asking him to have NC with her to lessen his feelings, why would he want to reverse those feelings back to me. Am I communicating well here? I don't know. Not much sleep.

Anyway, any thoughts are appreiciated. This is my first foray into his fog. The first time I went in there, I didn't have a clue what I was doing.

I did good with LBs. There were some minor ones, but I tried to be a good listener and interject pertinent thoughts. Maybe next time I should just glue my mouth shut and let him get it out of his system.

He won't tell me all his thoughts and feelings. Some, regarding her and our past, he thinks are inappropriate to talk to me about. Some for future D protection, and others because he doesn't want to hurt me more. That is what he says. I don't know what he means.

I encouraged him to tell me everything. That I could take it. And I did take all the stuff he told me, and came here and posted and cried.

Love, Amy

Amy Maree,,,

You have to get in better control of these types of contacts...and not hang on the line to just let him dump all this vitriol your way...

the question was did you tell another scout leader...

answer the question but do not power struggle or defend your answer...
speak you peace and be done...

Any of the rest is your choice to expose yourself to it..
How insane is it for him to expect you to go to meeting with the OW>..
way insane...
so is most of the stuff..

why does he say it...because
too justify his affair he has no choice but to lie lie lie...
He must lie to keep all focus off of him and place it on you...

and he must blame you and everyone else..
too stop blaming you and everyone else would mean he would have to look at his own actions and responsibility...

BUT you do not have to expose yourself to any of it...
that's all you and your choice...

You need some 180's....to remove yourself from his focus of chaos...

I think you need to create the illusion that something else has your attention right now...and that you are not just sitting at home focused on him...

Is he seeing the kids this week...If not tell you have plans some eve this week...weekend even better and tell him you need him to watch the kids..and go somewhere...without disclosing anything ...
AND no engaging with him...flit out the door when he shows up..
flit back in and send him away...

this is not to say to date or anything...this is to flex your own independance...and take the focus off of you

quit exposing yourself to his garbage..
quit believe anything he says...

even if he ends up leaving you...for his own sake of peace and mental health...he better come to a place of better processing this mess...or else he will just end up alone and bitter and broken...

he's just still to busy blaming everyone but himself..

ark

This type of rage seems to be common to the WH.
I heard all the same type of horrible things, name calling, hate, etc. It even turned physical for the 1st time in our 20 yr. relationship. His rage was horrible.

By month #9 this seemed to decrease and by month #11 it was hardly evident at all.
I believe that WH felt so horrible about who he was, what he had done, etc. that the only thing he could do was to take it out on someone else, "blame" someone else...maybe now he knows where the real blame lies.

Anyways, listen to ARK, try to protect yourself from it as much as possible, don' believe any of it!

ARK
ARK
ARK
ARK
ARK
ARK
You are right.
You are right.
You are right.

What the he** was I thinking???? Listening to that for 2 hours? He KNEW I would answer his call. He KNEW I would receive his anger. He KNEW it would upset me. He KNEW his threats would scare me.

When my emergency contact friend (God bless her) finally answered her phone at 5 am, she told me the same things.

I am going to continue with my 180 plan, which I have been doing wonderfully, which may have contributed to the call last night. That is kind-of how he roped me into it, by indicating that we would be making more progress if I treated him like I cared for him at all, paid attention to him. Continue improving myself and making myself happy.

When I go to our MT appointment tomorrow, I am going to say 3 things. 1)I am upset by WH's lack of understanding about why I cannot be in the same room with OW 2)I am upset by WH's lack of understanding about why it is not healthy for our children to be in the same room with OW 3)I am upset that he has resorted to threatening me with financial means to get his way.

And I will let her deal with all of that. Might as well get our money's worth, since it could be our last appointment.

Lots of love and thanks. Amy

Amy -
Listen to Ark. Put H on the back burner and go on with having a nice life. Anyone with any sense at all could see that it is not a healthy situation to expect you to put up with OW at scout functions. Your H is still deeply in the fog. I think you did very well.

Now forget about him and get on with your healing. Your boys need one normal parent.

Yes, Believer. They do. That is my responsibility right now.

That is my focus. I just need to pull myself up by my Birkenstock straps.

Amy

Amy, reading your post got me so angry I want to call your WH and blast him for 2 hrs. Maybe that would keep me from blasting my very own WH.

This whole process never ceases to amaze me. Here we are sticking this out to preserve our Ms, and for what? Like at this moment our WH's are this great prize at the end of this long, dark tunnel? Hell, we're the friggin prize, and they don't even see it. We are staying with someone who has treated us less than dirt for months. Who has shown us the lowliest, most unattractive side of themselves. And yet, we are willing to offer forgiveness and work toward recovery in spite of a deep pain that hits us on every level of our being. I guess you could say my humor of yesterday is gone.

Ok, first off, I'll tell you what I tell my clients, and what I've had to learn over the years. Your feelings are your feelings. You have every right to have them. Don't you dare let him tell you otherwise. Also, if you didn't feel what you were feeling being in the same room with OW, who was the former best friend, with your son, with your H, I'd say YOU were in major denial. I would say YOU are avoiding your feelings. I would say YOU are made of stone.

The reality is you are a flesh and blood person who has and is enduring the unthinkable. It was hard enough for me to endure OW working with H for that month, training new person. Your H is in major fog land. Step back, breathe, and let him deal with the consequences of his actions.

Also, just a thought, what are your legal rights concerning decisions regarding your son. Have you spoken to a a therapist who deals with children's issues? I can't imagine what this might be doing to your child. I would recommend what the experts tell you and then do what you need to do, for you and your child. Because right now your H is thinking of only one person, and it ain't you or your son.

Sorry! I hope I didn't overstep myself here. I'm not telling you to give up on your M. Please just take care of yourself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I can't imagine how this could ever work out. I can't imagine him ever changing his mind. I can't imagine his feelings for me ever coming back. He remembers our past in such a bad way. I know it wasn't perfect, not even close, but I thought we had something special. And even I am losing sight of what that was.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Amy, I feel the exact same way. I wrote my H a letter remembering how we met, that first kiss, and all the important memories we shared. Yes, there were a lot of struggles and really bad times, but he has lost sight of all the good ones, the true treasures. I think it helped him some to hear me express that. He said he never knew I held those memories dear. Maybe you could write something like that too.

And listen to Ark, its good advice.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think you need to create the illusion that something else has your attention right now...and that you are not just sitting at home focused on him...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do this! It will help. I am trying not to mope around. I am going running and I am going to start going to the gym again. I've lost so much weight, heads are turning and its driving my H crazy. LOL! Take care of you and your kids. I even planned to take a vacation with my son, with or without my H. Maybe he'll use it as an excuse to see OW, but at this point, I don't care. I need to focus on me and my son. My son and I will have a good time, regardless. My H was a little shocked, I think, that I'm going to do this without him. Oh well.

I have also felt a lot of rage from my H, and all this says is guilty, guilty, guilty. Only when he responds in a non-defensive and calm way do I know he is being honest. When he reacts negatively, I know he has something to hide.

I'm praying for you.

CV55 -

You did not overstep yourself. You are right. My feelings are my own. I don't know why I keep trying to accomodate this man.

I have a feeling the Scout issue is one reason he totally blew his top yesterday. No one supports his point of view! Not me, his mother, his IC, our MT, I don't even think the OW does!

He is grasping. He is desperate to keep this "fix" for himself within easy reach, to have a justification for seeing her and talking to her. She has dumped him! Just wants to be his friend. He hates that. He told me last night he has called her several times trying to get her to be with him, and she refuses. Apparently, she knows what they did was wrong and has asked God for forgiveness, and will not do it again.

WH also mentioned to me that he felt he had been played by her. And he has talked to her about that. Is it possible his fantasy world is finally crumbling around his ears? Could that be where some of this animosity is coming from?

I feel horrible and confused.

Amy

<small>[ March 02, 2004, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: Amy Maree ]</small>

Amy, I'm not sure I understand what question he asked and what you replied that was a lie. Maybe I missed it in your post. I don't want you to get in any hot water if he is lurking. However, right now this site is for you, the one who is trying to preserve your marriage.

Amy and nih, my H dropped out of therapy 2 weeks before Thanksgiving, before A was revealed. I went to last session alone. My MC told me 3 things. "You have done everything you can do. Your H will rewrite histrory however he wants. And he will put whatever spin he wants on the situation."

When we were in therapy our MC had us both fill out what's called a caring behavior inventory. One of the exercises was to think back on the in-love, stage one period, and record what we did for each other back then, that we aren't doing now. My list was about 3 pages long, with lots of sexual references. I think he had 2 things on his list. It flipped me out. He had that I cook him dinner, and I'm not even sure what the 2nd thing was. I told him he had to take the 1st thing off the list because I'm still cooking him dinner. He had not one thing about sex. He rewrote history so thoroughly that he didn't even remember sex in our stage one phase. No wonder, because at that point he was having stage one sex with someone else. Now I understand! Isn't this just the funnest time we're all having? I've said it on here before, and I'll say it again. Someone, please shoot me now!

amy maree

two hours!!!!!!!!!!!!
two hours!!!!!!!!!!!!

uggh
put your head next to the monitor...

bonk bonk bonk right on the top of your head...

two hours....
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ARK...you'd be better off tying a sinker to a fishing line and practice your casting in the back yard!!!!!!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Amy

I feel so bad for you and I hope you are doing better. We have both had bad days with our WH this week. Of course I was weak and caved in and that was my fault. Everyone here makes mistakes because this is all so new and so painful there is no way to not make mistakes. Some things are better left unsaid for now I believe. I am a totally honest person but when the WH is in the fog somethings just drive them further away, words that they don't want to hear esp. This is what I have found. On Sun. I told my WH that I knew I loved him from the first time I saw him, and that I loved his lips the first time I kissed him and I asked him if he remembered me telling him that when we first kissed and he said yes. For a minute he did come clear of the fog, he hugged me and kissed me. Then I started talking about how we could have the best relationship ever if he would just give it a try, then he got pissed and said I have to go. I pushed it too far, I should have left it where it was. When he left here he went to OW house.

I would listen to ARK and the others as well as your own advice you have given. You have given some great advice and you have done so well so far. Reread some of your old posts, get that I love Amy attitude back and live for those boys. That is what I get up for every single day, my kids. They are my world right now, for I am all they have, and they are all I have. You are a great person and he will look back even if you D and feel lonely and sorry someday. So in the end you will be the last woman standing for him no matter what. When they jump the fence for the greener grass, it eventually turns brown on the other side also. If they choose another pasture then you must keep your grass green in your own pasture. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I am here for you. Email me, call me!

Thank you, ladies.

Yes, two hours. I am spent. I have to go cook for my client, now. Ug.

I hope I don't accidentally put curry instead of cumin in their dinner again. I felt so bad. But they liked it. I didn't, but they said they did.

Maybe they just felt sorry for me, jumped it down the sink, and ordered pizza! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Chat at you later. Amy

<small>[ March 02, 2004, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: Amy Maree ]</small>

Amy don't expect him to be rational or as Dr. Phil put "don't expect sense out of non-sense".

He has to justify his feelings....he has nothing valid deep down inside he knows this...it angers him and you are willing to receive that anger.

Let me ask you something is the divorce threat real or a type of leverage because he thinks it can control you?

Not saying call his bluff but you might ask him the next time he "threatens" you with divorce..."what would you do if we divorced? Honestly what would you do?"

Don't go any further its a rhetorical question.

Has he really thought about halving the marital assets. About child support. About alimony if applicable. About his affair being witnessed in court. For that matter seeing the kids on a limited basis. Living alone. Dating again.

Let him give it some deep thought. He had done alot of barking without thinking about biting...maybe he should take a deeper look at what he is talking about chewing on.

SDFR -

At this point, it's not the D that concerns me. It is his ravings about making me move out of the house and move into an apartment, taking custody of the kids - crippling me financially, basically.

Idaho is a no-fault state, and no alimony. I could get up to 25% of his pay for child support. He makes quite a bit, but it would be tough.

WH is talking about taking away next month's pay, basically making us delinquent and destroying our credit. Not to mention what it would do to our kids to see him try to force me out.

He is just out of his head crazy right now. I backed down and told him what he wanted to hear to protect myself and my kids from all of the above, last night. I don't think he would be long-term successful with them, but it would be horrible for me and the kids to go through.

I don't know what his ability is at this time to think ahead and rationally consider his options. I believe even though his fantasy world has turned out to be not-so-pleasant, he is terrified of letting it go completely. And that is what I am asking him to do with leaving Scouts because of OW.

He will lose his justification to talk to and see her, because in all other ways she has dumped him. He is not going to let his "fix" go that easy, in the throws of his addiction, I'm afraid. Like taking crack from a strung-out addict.

Anyway, I don't know what the he** I am doing. I never thought I would be here, just like everyone else here. I was unprepared. I am just stumbling around, bumping into stuff, then saying, "Well, that hurt. That didn't work. That sucked."

This sucks!

Amy