OK, today W had call with Steve Harley. So far we had a joint call followed by my call followed by today's call. I invited W to lunch and initially didn't bring up her Harley call. But as we got into it she definitely bought into his LoveBank concept and whatever other suggestions he made. I could tell she knows where its going because she was a little testy with me saying that she wished we had done this years ago, and what about all the things I have done to her etc. etc. She is quite resistant about giving up contact and asked me what if this (MC) doesn't work. I thanked her for participating and told her if it doesn't work I am prepared to go our seperate ways. Not confrontational at all. There were ups and downs during the conversation but I left her laughing and we kissed goodbye as I left for work. Right now she seems intent on telling Steve how many needs I'm not meeting and all my shortcomings through the years. I thought I was walking on eggs before but this seems like very delicate times. Just wondered if anyone had any idea what's ahead. For those who aren't familiar I am battling a 2 year EA after ONS. Can't say it's intense but it knaws at me like a cancer.

It's a good thing that you are in MC. This is definitely going to help me. My husband has been in an ongoing EA for the last eight years. There have been interruptions, but it continues on. However, we have never been to MC before. He does not think that it is necessary. We were able to take a hard look at which EN were unfulfilled and I've worked hard at getting over this. I think that I have done a good job and it makes me feel good about myself, but I have been unsuccessful in getting him to commit to NC. Honestly, I think there will probably never be NC in my case. This may be very different for you though. You are actually working with a professional and she may eventually come around.

I can definitely emphasize with the knawing feeling. Right now, I'm not doing good at all. I'm on the verge of tears every second. It is so hard. He's been in contact with her on the cell phone every day for the last three weeks. She has family problems and needs a 'friend'. He's always there for her....

Kati

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by walkingoneggs:
<strong> OK, today W had call with Steve Harley. So far we had a joint call followed by my call followed by today's call. I invited W to lunch and initially didn't bring up her Harley call. But as we got into it she definitely bought into his LoveBank concept and whatever other suggestions he made. I could tell she knows where its going because she was a little testy with me saying that she wished we had done this years ago, and what about all the things I have done to her etc. etc. She is quite resistant about giving up contact and asked me what if this (MC) doesn't work. I thanked her for participating and told her if it doesn't work I am prepared to go our seperate ways. Not confrontational at all. There were ups and downs during the conversation but I left her laughing and we kissed goodbye as I left for work. Right now she seems intent on telling Steve how many needs I'm not meeting and all my shortcomings through the years. I thought I was walking on eggs before but this seems like very delicate times. Just wondered if anyone had any idea what's ahead. For those who aren't familiar I am battling a 2 year EA after ONS. Can't say it's intense but it knaws at me like a cancer. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

At least you are in MC. If she is wanting to save the M, that is a great start. My H doesn't even know if he wants to be in our M. His ongoing EA kills me. It eats me up inside every day. I battle and battle with the thoughts that invade my mind and I know that I will never truly know what it is that they mean to each other. How do we go on knowing that the EA continues? Should we put up with it? If he can't let her go for me and our family, I don't know if I want to be here. The pain of an EA is just as painful, don't you think? My H doesn't think he's done anything wrong, or at least he won't admit it.

Good luck WOE, your headed in the right direction.

Hi Nid,

I'm in the exact same position as you are. Husband has been in long-term EA; doesn't see anything wrong with it. Says that he loves me and comes home to me, but needs to be a 'friend' to her.

Kati

Kati and Nid, glad I could strike a cord. My W doesn't get it either. She thinks I'm hung up on ONS. That that is her only mistake. The EA absolutely takes energy from the M. I am in IC at W's request. She would only agree to MC if I did IC. Initially I went to an MC for 10 sessions by myself. My W went to 1 and decided he was no good. I finally decided that she couldn't tell me Steve Harley was no good. So I agreed to IC and she agreed reluctantly to Steve. It is very necessary for me as I simply got tired of playing the fool. To make it worse I was in OM's company several times a year and in effort to protect W's reputation pretended I didn't know about ONS. Amazing isn't it. But I can tell you I just one day decided I will never be in OM's company again and will put relentless pressure on W to end it. I can't control the outcome but finally I got to a place where I am prepared to walk away. I recently posted something titled "Winning". It was about 2 weeks ago and it really defines my determination. There is also a response from Believer that is really worth a look. You have to get to a place where you decide you're not going to take it anymore. At that point you will be amazed at the change in your spouse. They will look scared and that is very satisfying after all you have gone through. Keep posting and good luck. You teach people how to treat you.

WOE-

what is ONS?

CW

Captain, ONS is One Night Stand. That was the single most devastating thing I have ever been through so I don't want to minimize that. I would welcome your feedback as you are in position to tell me W's thoughts. But additionally an EA is absolutely painful as well. That she could fall in love with this man and have sex and then continue to let her husband play the fool to make former lover comfortable in our home. How ridiculous is that? But I have simply been too paralyzed to stand up for myself.
Welcome your thoughts.

WOE

My WH is still continuing his EA, almost one-sided, though, since OW got herself a new boyfriend and repented to God and told my WH that A was a mistake.

My WH still doesn't think it was a mistake. And he sees nothing wrong with being her friend. He is all fogged in. Until NC and withdrawal, they will not understand, unfortunately.

Even if they are dumped, if they can see or talk to the OP at all, WS will be unable to see. I am living this.

I say put pressure on them. Crack their fantasy. That is what I did. The rest happens naturally with time. Time time time, time time time.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Amy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ March 02, 2004, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: Amy Maree ]</small>

<small>[ March 05, 2004, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: KitG ]</small>

Hi KitG,

I'm amazed how similar if not identical your story is to mine. Unfortunately, I do know that my husband had (or still has) romantic feelings for OW. Last August, I found emails that he sent to her proclaiming his love for her, how they are meant to be together somehow somewhere etc. It broke my heart.

My husband is very similar to yours in that he provides for me, is loving, we have a good sex life, he gives me gifts etc. But he's even more attentive to OW. He says that he loves me, that I'm his wife always. I'm that one that he wants to be with, but then he calls OW basically every day and vice versa. I've never talked to her. I have thought about it in the past, but I'm not going to. What am I gonna say to her to make this mess stop? She NEEDS him. I've asked my husband if she has other friends that maybe she could confide in when she has problems. He said that he's just one of many friends that she needs.

Sometimes I wonder what makes her so powerful over my husband? She must be one hell of a woman! ;-) I do have to admit that sometimes I'm a bit curious about what she looks like.

I'm 34 years old now and I do not have any children. We have been married for 14 years. I would love nothing more than having a baby of my own and I know that my time is running out... But I feel reluctant about it. My husband talks a lot about having a baby and he said this would make him very happy, but something inside of my is holding back.

Kati

<small>[ March 02, 2004, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: Kati ]</small>

<small>[ March 05, 2004, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: KitG ]</small>

Thank you, KitG. It feels good when somebody understand what I'm feeling. Sometimes I think about leaving. But it's not so easy. I want nothing more than to have a good marriage and family. Family is very important to me. I miss my family a lot. They live in Europe. It is so hard not to have anybody close to talk to when one is going through crap like this.

Kati

My GOSH guys, is there a way for them to see that an EA is devastating? I go out of my freaking mind all the time. My H has this CD he burned and there's this song on there that I KNOW the lyrics pertain to him and the OW. Its all lovey dovey and about how they want to be together blah, blah, blah. It makes me sick and it runs through my freaking mind all the time!

Every time he runs an errand and is gone for too long, I know he's talking to her and it KILLS me.

<small>[ March 03, 2004, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: nid ]</small>

WOE, I'm sorry. You're needing affirmation and here I am boiling mad and probably not giving you what you were asking for! Forgive me! Its just that all our stories sound the same. How rampant is this???

I'm so glad you both are talking to the Harleys. I wish I could even approach that subject with my H.

Keep us posted on your recovery.

Nid, don't worry about it. Your exchanges are interesting for several reasons. a)it shows that EA is just as hurtful to a W as a M and that gives me affirmation. I know I'm not crazy., and b)what is being said here is that this won't end by itself. We need to stand up for ourselves and command (not demand) respect. In other words demanding it will do no good. We have to demonstrate that anything less is not going to be tolerated. I will keep you posted as to how I am doing. I have to go now but back up in General Questions about 3 pages back and look for my post under "winning". It is how I feel and "Believer" gives a very cool response. Believe it or not YOU hold the key. Stop accepting it. He won't end his M over this nonsense. That is my belief. I even had to tell W I won't settle for anything less and if this fails I am prepared to walk away. I don't say those kind of things so it definitely got her attention. Good luck. See you tomorrow.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by walkingoneggs:
<strong> I would welcome your feedback as you are in position to tell me W's thoughts.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WOE-

I would be... happy? not exactly - maybe honored is a better word... to tell you what my thoughts have been.

**WARNING - I think a lot, so this is long! **

I've done some of the same things as your W. I don't know whether to say that I had ONSs or not (thank you for defining ONS for me) - I didn't necessarily mean for them to be ONSs... but when I met these men, they didn't end up being what I was looking for (I wanted at least a bit of an emotional attachment, and if they weren't willing or able to provide that, I ended it). I also had EAs... and the one that was still going on when I finally told my H about my As is the one that I call the OM. He and I had become quite entangled. I realize now that it was no excuse - but at the time it seemed like the only way that I could get my ENs met.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But additionally an EA is absolutely painful as well. That she could fall in love with this man and have sex and then continue to let her husband play the fool to make former lover comfortable in our home. How ridiculous is that? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know that that is one of the things that my H is struggling with the most. He and OM had become friends, and OMs W and I had become friends, as well. My H is so terribly hurt and feels so betrayed... OM was in our house, being friends with H while the A was going on. I look back at that now and I just don't know what I was thinking. Well, I do know what I was thinking... but truly I have no idea how I managed to believe that it was really a good idea! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I can't comprehend it. I don't know where to even begin to apologize to my H for that.
I found myself hoping that we (OM,OMW,H and I) could all get back to being friends again after D-day. (again - where was my brain?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) H and I were checking into MB, though, and he convinced me that I should write a NC letter. OM didn't accept it as being from me, because it was written very much like the example in the book - very unemotional. OM said that he thought that H had forced me to write it. I explained that I had agreed to write it, but by that time OM and I were talking... and that was all that it took - that little bit of contact - for me to decide that my H was gonna have to accept my friendship with OM. OM and I agreed to end the PA... but decided that our S's needed to accept that we were going to friends. I felt at the time that OM was my only friend that truly understood me and accepted me as I was. I truly felt that I had no other friends. I knew that my H was supposed to be my best friend - but we had grown away from that long ago. OM said that he needed me as well, and I didn't want to hurt him.
I was conflicted... I didn't want to hurt OM... but I also knew that I had already hurt my H terribly, and it was still hurting him for me to keep contact with OM. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> We had adopted the concept of Radical Honesty, and in that spirit - I agreed to tell my H every time that I had contact with OM. I watched my H's tension and pain as he came home from work every day and asked if I had talked to OM... or when I would call him and say "I talked to OM a few minutes ago." My H put up with it, though, and a week later we went to the MB seminar. I tried not to let Dr Harley convince me that I should have NC with OM... but it didn't work. I had to admit that if I was going to give my marriage a real shot, I had to totally let go of OM. It felt like it was gonna kill me... but I called him on the phone this time, and I told him exactly what I was thinking and feeling. I needed to not talk to him anymore. By the time we got off the phone, we were both crying... but I knew that he understood. He knew that I was serious, and it was ME that had decided this time. He hasn't tried to contact me since that day.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She is quite resistant about giving up contact and asked me what if this (MC) doesn't work. I thanked her for participating and told her if it doesn't work I am prepared to go our seperate ways. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good answer. When I was reluctant to give up my friendship with OM, and even after I called him and ended it, I had questions and fears like it sounds like your W is experiencing. I honestly couldn't believe that my H was going to stay with me. I kept thinking that he was going to decide that it was too much for him to handle after all, and he would decide to walk out on me. I knew that he had every right to do that. I was so afraid that he would leave me, that he would never be able to forgive me, and then I would be all alone! I already felt like I had no friends... and my H and I were working on it, but we weren't really friends yet. I was terrified to let go of OM. I was terrified to be alone. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
What was it at the MB seminar that made me decide to cut off contact with OM? It was Dr H's suggestion (when describing POJA) that if H and I couldn't agree on something - the one that was resistant should try the other's idea for a period of time - a trial. That's the way that I looked at my separation from OM for a while. I looked at it as a trial. I was willing to give my H and my M a shot. I real, true chance to work. To see if Dr H was right... if H and I could fall in love again.
I can tell you now... my H and I are following the program... and it's working! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Another thing that helped me to not contact OM was the memory of the pain on my H's face when I contacted OM. Every time that I considered calling OM, I knew that I would have to tell my H about it. I couldn't bear to see that pain in his eyes again... and I wasn't going to start lying again. I never want to lie to my H again. I still think of OM from time to time and miss him once in a while. I know that that is normal. I am committed to not talking to him ever again, though. I am now committed to working on my marriage. I have already seen such huge changes... I really believe that this is the way that it should be!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There were ups and downs during the conversation but I left her laughing and we kissed goodbye as I left for work.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">again - good job!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> leave her with a grin and kiss on her lips... very very good.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right now she seems intent on telling Steve how many needs I'm not meeting and all my shortcomings through the years. I thought I was walking on eggs before but this seems like very delicate times.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">*nods* I did that, too... from what I've been told, it's just a defense mechanism - for me it was, anyway. I couldn't handle looking straight at everything that I had done. I wasn't ready to look at it. Especially when I was still talking to the OM... it was very easy to identify the things that OM was doing right, and what my H was doing "wrong". I told my H every time that he did something that I didn't like, and that took the spotlight off of me and all that I had done to trash our relationship. My H was an angel about it, and he listened and did his very best to change everything that I asked him to. Eventually, I found myself feeling guilty because he was doing all of the work... and I wondered if I would be willing to change like that for him.
H and I are looking very closely at ourselves right now. It's not easy. It's exhausting at times. I feel the love for him growing in my heart again, though. I love him more than I have in such a long, long time.

Now... I know that it hasn't been very long really since I cut off contact with OM... but so much has happened... it feels so very good to be hopeful! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I know that there will be many difficult times ahead... but right now, I guess I'm celebrating how far we've come.
I hope that this was somehow a bit of help to you.
Keep it up - you're doing well!

God bless!
CW

CaptainsWife, thanks for your very detailed reply. This response has been as insightful as anything I have seen here in the 3 years I've been lurking. Very honest and I appreciate that. I would like to ask for some more assistance from you. First a little more background. W has basically had 3 EA's consecutively over the last 5 yrs. 1 with my brother that didn't get PA, 1 with my best friend who went a little further and the present one that peaked as a ONS and now continues as EA. But in her mind the only thing she did wrong was the ONS. She got very defensive when I referred to it as a ONS. That sounds cheap and she retorted that "it was an affair". I have since learned she is right. I guess my question is does my situation sound as serious as I'm making it out to be? Or am I being a martyr? How much can she really be getting from this relationship?
I can give you some more insight; she goes out 1 night a week in a group and plays pool with OM. On top of that she may call him 4 times a week but very, very brief calls (average 3 minutes).
The calls are not used to set up meetings either.

Am I unforgiving or is this really the thorn in my marriage that I think it is? I just need some affirmation that I am doing the right thing and not breaking her spirit. But also I am being very loving and patient to accomplish this goal. Today I stopped by and put a card in her car along with some body cream from Miracle (Lancome).
I wrote that "just because I'm not calling you as much doesn't mean I'm not thinking about you".

But she also has me going to an IC as if the problem is me. But reluctantly I got her talking to Harley's which is a home run. When you look back you say you realize how foolish it was to think that OM and H could continue friendship and how selfish it was for you to want to put the two together in your home etc. Do you think my W will someday have this same understanding? I don't want it to end up that she thinks she did me a great favor by ending the "friendship". I don't want her to feel like the martyr either. I just want to get back to normal. Any other suggestions are appreciated.

WOE