Hi - Long story short: I've failed to meet her EN's, She abandoned the Marriage and had sex with someone else in Nov. (out of town, no sign of contact but she's still interested in him). She feels I'm manipulating her, stalling her off, walking on her, etc. SHe is not aware that I know about the infidelty (It wounded me greatly but I can see I was not keeping her in the #1 position in my life.
So in Jan 04 I start learning - pull a 180, and get slight hint of possible delay in D.
I need to talk with her this week to answer the court. I want time to show me realigned priorities, but her response seems to be she'll 'give me until June, and re-file in July demanding Full Custody and lots more cash. I only care about the wife and children. SO MY Question To You: How do I keep 180 working and meet EN's? She just recewntly quit complaining if I extend common courtesy, open doors, buy her a drink, clear the table.
I know not to believe all the fogspeak, but I must deal with topics we discuss in a trutheful manner. I.E. that I'd like some time to demo my true priorities (personal relationships with kids, her, and her family). I can't ever agree to giving up custody... I'm leaning toward acknowledging my past failures (done), and stating that I am working on my personal relationships regardless of D. I care about everyone, but can't agree to giving up custody. That leaves the Friend of the Court process, or us agreeing to 50/50. I've stopped the LB's since Jan. 1, except I did get pretty shook up when D papers were served, and drew her into a long conv. - not heated, just frank and longish. I intend to treat her like a Gold when the opportunity presents, keep my distance other times, and focus on my children. I'd love to break though to setting aside time for Undivided Attention, but think the A is still a potent issue. Until she kisses me or holds my hand I'm figuring she's not interested. (Hard to stay positive). Any thoughts? Do I sound like I'm on the right track? It sure is a fine line between meeting EN's and being seen as a meddling/manipulative/[censored].
I can use your ideas, support.
THANK YOU ALL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ March 04, 2004, 06:49 AM: Message edited by: SeekingBetter ]</small>

Bump - Sorry to bump this so soon. She has just returned from being away a week or so. We agreed to talk briefly about D this week. If I do not respond I expect I look weak, if I overdo it I'm not on board the 180.... Please comment, I'm very new at this and appreciate the insight. I'd be happy to be in a position to help others in the future.
THANKS!!

Take your time. Are you able to spend time doing fun things together? Have you read about Plan A? It should be done for several months. In the meantime, work on the only thing you have control over, changes in you.

Keep posting and reading and let us know how it is going.

I would say tell her you know about the infidelity. I may have misunderstood, but I got th impression that you had not tod her. You seem to have little to lose by confronting with this information. It may open the door for truithful communication about the real issues in your marriage.

I would suggest this be done with an attitude towards you wanting to work towards restoring your relationship. Continue with plan A.

Get SAA and read it. I would also suggest enlisting the help of a marriage counselor.

C&S

We agreed to talk briefly about D this week. If I do not respond I expect I look weak, if I overdo it I'm not on board the 180.... Please comment,

Listen 100 times more than you comment.

Ask her for clarification on any issue you disagree with, as in... "Let me see if I understand what you are saying ".... state what your understanding is and ask if this is correct.

Keep her talking. Use direct eye contact and a "soft" facial expression. "Soft" means not sad, not mad, not happy .... simply soft and interested in her. Practice this face in a mirror. Ask questions to keep her talking. Show empathy and concern for her point of view (you can actually do this wothout agreeing to her position)

Ask her for details of her position. If she cannot provide them, then ask her to think about it and to please discuss with her any details she thinks of at a later time.

The purpose of this is NOT to discuss a divorce...

YOUR GOAL

Your goal is to demonstrate how compassionate you are, what a great listener you are and how sincerely you take her concerns.

Keep these goal in mind.

You do not have to agree with her position... you can be compassionate and tender and just listen.

That's my suggestion. (It worked ON me when my WH was trying to get back into my good graces and I was a complete mess. He became the one who listened best, therefor the one I went to in times of trouble)

If she begins to get emotional, shut up and just hold her hand, or hug her .... depending on the moment. Show her you can tolerate her emotionality and remain steady.

Best of luck!

Pep

.....and, tell her you know of the infidelity. You've known for some time and you STILL want to rebuild your marriage. THAT was your wake up call and it got your attention BIG TIME! You realized how much your family meant to you and how much you stood to lose unless YOU got your $hit together.

Got it?

WAT

Thanks you for your sage advice. She seems to have hardened in her position. Only talks of D. I asked if a separation might help reduce tension, clearing teh air so we could explore where we need to go. She's emthusiastic about the separation part, but still fixxed on D as soon as posible. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
I'm not in good shape emotionally here. I LOVE her, and LOVE the boys. I'm very torn. If I seaparate I know she's just trying to usher me away from the boys to assist in custody hearing, etc. If I stay the last few grains of sand run out of the M and I'd probably still end up out.
Plan A was starting to work, but seems unbearable with the lifes of the little ones twisting in the wind. I soppose I'll need to have my attny. respond and begin the process. I'm not sure separating serves a purpose if D is in the works. I do want her back.
QUESTION: What about agreeing to 2 week separation, refining my plan/goals, if she agrees to also lay out what she'd like our lives to look like in a year... I'm not getting any feedback except "trust me" (accept D, no custody). I think I will bring up the infidelity after letting a couple weeks of separation pass... She's under the impression she'll be in the house, new car, bills paid, free to go to school, etc. There simply isn't that kind of money. even if she works. I know what it is like being a single parent. It isn't often fun, rewarding, but not fun. The thought of a nasty custody deal isn't pleasant. I know you all are correct, but it is so hard not to engage and try to fix this now.
I really need your thoughts and support.
It pains me to even type it, but I could just focus on custody, let D proceed at leasurely pace, and let the natural results mount; always being a steady, and cordial listener. God I sure do not know the reason I'm being tested so. It is so difficult to clense myself and behave wit hgrace each day. I'm not filled with anger, but am concerned about losing her gentle effect on me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ March 04, 2004, 06:48 AM: Message edited by: SeekingBetter ]</small>

Hi Seeking,

First of all, it sounds to me like your W is in an affair. Why else would she be so insistent on D, despite the hardship it will cause for your children and the fact that you've said you want to work things out?

I'd re-read Plan A and bust my tail doing the best one I could. Meet ENs, avoid LBs like the plague.

DON'T move out of the house. That could hurt you in a custody battle.

DO let her know you're aware of her A - that could hurt *her* in a custody battle and she could use the shake-up. Don't threaten her with it, just let her know you're aware and that you consider it a huge wake-up call and you will do everything in your power to be the H she deserves. Let her draw her own conclusions about what a great guy you are to stick with her even in light of an A, and let her draw her own conclusions about how her A might affect her ability to take everything from you.

Gather any evidence of her A, just in case you need it later.

Don't agree to a D. Don't move out. Don't separate. Just Plan A, Plan A, Plan A.

Keep posting.

<small>[ March 04, 2004, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: turtlehead ]</small>

Thanks. I'll re-commit to Plan A. It is so hard for me to shut off, disengage from obvious solvable problems... But in reality I hurt my cause today engaging her in talk about the D, Kids, etc.
Any thoughts on custody? I'm very involved, and do not want any more damage than is required. I really want to do things with them, but enjoy homework, church, camping, historical re-enactments, etc...
I can use all the encouragement you all can muster. I'm a damn engineer and try to fix things that are best left alone.
Thanks again

Originally posted by SeekingBetter:
Only talks of D. I asked if a separation might help reduce tension, clearing teh air so we could explore where we need to go. She's emthusiastic about the separation part, but still fixxed on D as soon as posible. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

OK here is.... "How to talk to WW for dummies" (just joking around, you're not a dummie)

MEN are often CLUELESS of the sub-text within a woman's conversation.

Here you are paying close attention to her WORDS .... and you are missing 2 thirds of her message which is NON verbal!!!

When she is saying "blah divorce blah hopeless blah no point anymore blah" .... pay attention to her eyes. Look at her deeply. Make a comment about how you see hurt in her eyes, and ask her how she is dealing with her hurt.

Stick to the subtext.

What emotional fuel is driving her?

Ask her!!!

Details about the "solution is a divorce" is not where you should focus.

Ask her about her sleep? "How are you sleeping?" Ask her "How is your energy level?" Tell her "I thought it would make a nice change, so I brought Chinese take-out tonight."

Asking about a separation was dumb. You cannot Plan A as well separately.



If I seaparate I know she's just trying to usher me away from the boys to assist in custody hearing, etc. If I stay the last few grains of sand run out of the M and I'd probably still end up out.

STAY STAT STAY .... you MUST not move out!!!!!!

Plan A was starting to work, but seems unbearable with the lifes of the little ones twisting in the wind.

You bear the difficulty of Plan A for the boys.... you are a man and it is your job to keep this family from falling apart.

I soppose I'll need to have my attny. respond and begin the process. I'm not sure separating serves a purpose if D is in the works. I do want her back.

Do NOT MOVE OUT .... if WW moves out, then you cannot stop her.


QUESTION: What about agreeing to 2 week separation, refining my plan/goals, if she agrees to also lay out what she'd like our lives to look like in a year... I'm not getting any feedback except "trust me" (accept D, no custody).

Trust her????

Hellllll NO.

But you don't tell her that.

"I need time to think."

"I'm not ready to decide such a monumental thing."

stallllllllllll

You fight for this family, you hear me?

Pep

I'm a damn engineer and try to fix things that are best left alone.

Seek to understand .... not to "fix" right now.

Patience.

Observation.

Quiet strong loving support.

No begging.

No argueing.

No giving in to breaking up a beautiful family just because she has a burr up her butt.

Pep

Thanks again. I'm back on Plan A /180.
It is very difficult since Iam so emotionally sensitized. The support here makes a very big difference. I will be with her and the Boys this weekend a 2 events. Fortunatly I have a role (coaching) at both, so I have an appropriate venue to demo Strong, Loving Kindness, without involving her directly.
You all are tops in my book.
I'll let you know how it goes' next week.