These are the communications WH and I had on Friday afternoon, before he picked up the boys for his weekend. Please tell me what you think.

My email to him, Friday afternoon after attorney appointment. I was crying. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

"I understand your reasons for not wanting to move them [from the Troop]. I truly believe I have their best interest at heart. I do not want to power struggle with you, or make you feel I am taking anything away from you. I respect your opinions, and I know you are an excellent father.

I have been thinking a lot about Impact since I spoke with IC on Wednesday. I have been reacting off emotions for a while now, and I am tired of that. I keep thinking there has to be a better way for us to figure all this stuff out. For 15 years, you have been our protector, provider, and the leader of our family.

I do not want a divorce. I don’t care if we are separated for a year until we can figure this all out. I know I have been emotional. I have made mistakes in this that have impacted our kids, just like you have. I do not place all blame on you. I have no idea what I am doing right now.

I don’t know if I should talk to you or not. I don’t know if I should demand what I want or acquiesce to you in everything. I don’t know if I should tell you I love you, or not. I don’t know if I should continue to hope, or . . . well, I have no other alternative but to hope. If I don’t, then I think it would all be over at this point.

I was thinking while I was working out this morning (dangerous in Tim’s step class - I looked up facing the wrong way more than once!) about how we got to where we are. I am not proud of myself and my behavior. I cherish you. I want to hold you while you cry and tell you everything will be OK, as long as we work together. We have always been OK when we worked together.

I don’t know how this is going to turn out. I do know that I am a better person because of it. And I am going to work hard to show that to you. You almost seem like a wild animal to me, in the sense that sometimes if I move toward you, you run away. If I move too fast, you run away. When I look at you, you have such a guarded look in your eyes.

All I have wanted to do since day one is love you and forgive you. I am sorry I have not showed that with my actions.

I hope you have an awesome weekend with the boys. I just remembered something on the way home from Jean’s today. Jacob asked if James could stay the night next weekend (he returned James’ call yesterday afternoon). I guess James is going to be in town, and Jacob is so excited. He is having a very hard time in school with friends, and on the bus. I am going to take him to school and pick him up for as long as he asks me to, for as long as I can.

I guess I also need to start looking for a job. This personal chef business is not taking off like we hoped. I was thinking about maybe subbing again, a few days a week. But that won’t work during the summer. Then we’d have to find daycare, probably.

I don’t know. Our lives were set up so well for working together. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I sure do miss you. I hope that doesn’t make you feel uncomfortable. But I do. I’m also sorry you are having so many negative emotions towards me. And I am sorry you feel so badly about yourself. I still think you are a great person. And I would be so honored if you found it in your heart to give me a second chance at showing you that I am the one for you. Because I still believe that.

You used to say I was the best thing that ever happened to you. That if you didn’t have me and the boys, you would live a lonely life in some hole somewhere, all alone. I never thought it was true. Remember, I said you should have married a nice Mormon girl, like Regan, and that you would be rich if you didn’t have us. We wouldn’t have held you back all these years.

I want to regret all my years with you, to get back at you, because it hurts so bad to hear you say that you now don’t think you ever loved me. And I know I have told you that. But I don’t regret any time I have ever spent with you. I only regret that we got to a point in our lives where you would feel that way, and feel that you made a mistake in marrying me.

I thought no matter what we would always be together. You know how I feel about marriage, I don’t have to tell you. I believed you when you told me we would be together forever. I believed. Now I don’t know what to think. I still believe, but if you don’t, I have nothing. In reality, marriage is just a silly piece of paper. There is nothing to keep us together except us.

I am so sorry that you were so miserable you went outside our marriage to find fulfillment. I am so sorry for my involvement in all of it. I am so sorry our children have been hurt by our actions. I guess that is why I used to tell them to have hope. I want to make their pain and confusion and fear go away. That is my job, as their mom. And there is nothing I can do for them right now. I can only hold them, and tell them that everything will be OK some day. No matter what, we both love them. That is a really good thing to tell them. You are a great dad. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I sure do wish I had brevity, but you know I am long-winded. I will let you get back to work. I hope IC can help us. I also want you to think about one other thing. I would be willing to stop my counseling so that you could see IC more frequently, if you are interested in that. I am sad about us, but I really am in a pretty good space. I have the boys most of the time, my friends, our home - a lot of familiar things. I will go to my next week’s appointment, and after that be done. Just an option for you.

Take care, my babe. I think of you all the time. I want to talk to you all the time. I hope some day you can forgive me for everything I have put you through. I have considered myself the luckiest woman in the world to have been chosen by you. You have been an awesome husband to me.
I pray every night that God will guide me in His will with you. I don’t know what His plan is for me, but I ask Him to give me strength and courage to hear what He wants me to do, not what I want to do. It is very difficult to quiet the mind and listen with the heart. SS"

Here is his reply to me:

"Funny you mentioned Impact. Nicole had told me today that Spectrum (formerly Impact) has just come out with a new program and the first stage is coming up soon. She said she thinks there is a significant discount for previous Impact or Spectrum attendees. This might be something to look into and I can get more information if you are interested.

I also feel very confuse and messed up and all alone through all of this. I know you want to help me out and stuff, and maybe eventually it will get to a point where that could happen. I did not want to jump straight into a divorce either, but I feel like my hand is being forced. If you are willing to wait a little, so am I.

I don’t know how this is going to turn out either. But right now I feel I have lost everything but my boys and that I am losing my Scout program too. That was the one last thing that I had in my life that I still felt good about and it is being ripped away from me without any say on my part. I do understand your concerns about it, and honestly we might not be going this weekend because of my work, but I want to try if I can. If Jacob wants to stay back because James is in town that tis fine. Austin is behind Jacob on campouts anyway. And if Austin does not really want to go because James will be there I will understand too.

Emotionally and everything I don’t know where I am at. There are times when I feel like I might have cared, and times that I feel I didn’t. We were a very good team most of the time and it makes me wonder about a lot of things. I know how I have felt over there past few months and how I feel now and am trying to put everything onto some sort of perspective. I never meant to hurt you or anyone else. I didn’t even want to tell you half the things I did, but felt I was forced to. Why, because I am really screwed up right now and I don’t know anything.

Maybe through some counseling with IC we will be able to actually communicate with each other. We might never be able to be friends again, but I don’t know what the future is and I have given up trying to think I do. I have destroyed any kind of future I have ever dreamed of over the years and shattered all of my wants and dreams. Right now I feel all I have left is the boys and Scouts, and that is why I am fighting so hard about that. I feel it is the one thing I ever wanted to do in life that I still have and I am not willing to let it go.

Well, I have to finish my work here real quick. I will probably be a few minutes late. Tell the boys I am sorry and will be there ASAP."

And here is my reply to his reply:

"That is so weird you were talking about that today. I was just thinking today that I would want to do Impact again, wondering if they had that type of program around anymore. I was even going to ask IC if he had any information about it on Tuesday. Are you interested in going? I really liked the person I was when I was done with that program. I think it would be good for me to find my center again.

Thanks for emailing me back. I know you probably won’t get this until Monday, and that is OK. Of course I told the boys you would be a few minutes late. No problem.

Your hand is not being forced into anything. Divorce is the last thing I want. I just want to do the best for the boys at this point. I have had 2 professionals tell me that they shouldn’t be attending things regularly with her there, especially something like Scouts, where they could be getting conflicting messages. Is there any way that you will consider changing Troops? A professional evaluation, me taking them to the kid advocacy center here in Meridian? I don’t think they really care if they change Troops, as long as you are there with them. That is what is most important to them.

Let’s talk with IC about that on Tuesday. Just some things for you to think about. Maybe this is an opportunity for you to take your Scouting expertise to a Troop hurting for leadership and ideas. Maybe you could be used better elsewhere. You never know.

Well, see you Tuesday. I care for you deeply. I want you to be happy. I will do what I can to make that happen for you, and the boys. We need to look out for their best interests right now. They have been put through the ringer, and they are starting to crack a bit. Let’s give them lots of love and laughter, and let them know we are not rushing into any decisions - either way.
Lots of love and HUGS! SS"

What do you think? I don't know why I am asking you this. In a way, his email was encouraging to me, because it seemed very wide-ranging in his emotions. But I guess I see that as good. That maybe the fog is clearing a bit, and it is even more confusing for him?

Maybe I'm asking what WS's do and say when they are emerging from the fog. Is that when they show remorse? Because I have not seen any of that yet. I have had, "I'm sorry I hurt you, but I don't think I did anything wrong because I thought I was in love with OW." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Did I just waste your reading eyes? Is there nothing to infer from his response but jibberish?

Confused. SS

He said he would respond to me again when he went to work today. I will probably see something after church.

<small>[ March 09, 2004, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: Spider Slayer ]</small>

From the book I am currently reading:

The Language Of Love

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"When it comes to building a bridge of intimacy in your marriage, is your own pillar of security strong? If you were to question your spouse - without any pressure or nonverbal threats about how secure he or she feels in your relationship, what would the answer be?

Why not ask your spouse to choose, on a one-to ten scale, how secure your actions and attitudes make him or her feel? If 1 equals total insecurity and 10 is complete security, how high would you score?

Have you ever asked your spouse what it would take during the next six weeks to move closer to complete security or what you could do to maintain it if you've already achieved that goal?"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I saw your post in recovery.

Hold onto yourself. Your recovery depends on letting go of things outside of yourself.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Pep -

I feel I am on the cusp of understanding something incredible. I think it is why I felt compelled to get feedback about mine and WH's communication.

I know it is there, some sort of understanding, but I can't seem to grasp it. Very slippery to me. Do you recommend that I read the book you quoted from?

Is there anything else you can tell me? I am open to what you are saying. I know what you are saying, yet I don't.

Does that make any sense? Confused.

SS

Pep -

OK, I am getting the message. I am having understanding. I am really looking forward to your "Daddy" post you mentioned on another thread.

Basically, after I posted my last questions to you here about understanding, I spoke with a dear friend on the phone, and she explained the same thing to me in a different way.

Then, I went to church, and heard the same thing in the sermon, in a different way.

I am so grateful God is wise and patient, and is willing to send so many into my life to guide me in the same direction. Hopefully, I will not be this thick-skulled my entire life.

I feel my eyes are open now to a side of myself I have been blind to. Totally blind. Which is frightening.

But like my friend at church told me today, if we faced all our faults at once in our lives, we would be suicidal!

I feel I am experiencing growth in myself. I haven't felt this way in a LONG time.

Thank you. SS

We posted at the same time.

I agree with what you are saying.

For instance, in church:

We spoke of Peter today, and how he tried to control the arrest of Jesus in the garden. He drew his sword and fought. He did not trust that all of this was Jesus' plan, he did not trust God's plan.

He was afraid, he doubted, he fought.

Later, he surrendered. Surrendered his will, his fear, his intelligence, to God. And he became more than he thought he ever could, more than he ever hoped for.

I have heard this message 4 times today now from 4 different people.

This is my lesson right now.

Let go
Relax
Trust
Faith
Love
Forgiveness
Acceptance
Courage

Thank you.

Hi SS
Hope you don't mind me crashing your post to Ark. Just wanted to check in and say hi and see how you are doing.

Emails you wrote about sound encouraging. Building bridges sot of stuff. At least you are both being respectful in your communication. A far cry from a few days ago.

Things are OK here. Working hard at thesis. Contacted hospital today about getting a new job here in Sydney. I hope to return to a working life in mid April. They sounded fairly keen to have me but will not have a position until May but offered me casual work until then.

I need to get back to work, I miss it so much, but I want to finish thesis first or I know I will never finish it.

My husband is still away. He did not come home this weekend as they were still doing naval exercise. I sure hope he comes home for the weekend this week. I miss him so much.

Good to see you are out kicking up your heels and doing things. Tell me about your home catering business. Wish I could book you to come cook for me. How I would like to have someone do that. Are you a chef?

How did it go with the attorney?
Lets hope that you will never have to use the advice, but it is good to knwo where you stand.

Sllep tight, sorry I guess its morning for you. I'll be off to bed soon

C&S

gee mama!

I read the whole thing.. The fog is slowly lifting. DO not do anymore D talk.. please <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . It doesn't seem what you both want. I mean this is a new revelation...........he was never doing that. And the last email you showed me..it is slowly improving hehe <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I am glad!

Big hugs********

I love you, Tak care of your boys and YOU.. and when your WH wants you to help him, just be there.
well.. I should get my lazy bottom up and go do what I have to do..I'm getting lazy.

kisses*

OK, I go to WH's IC appointment today at 1. I am nervous. I want to remain calm and centered.

I want him to see the best of me. It is so hard after being hurt so badly.

I'll post about it, of course.

Chat at you all later.

SS

Hi SS
Just got out of bed.

Hope that your session is going well. I am praying for you
C&S

I changed the title of my topic. Yes, I went to WH's IC appointment today, and now this man is our MC. I like him a lot. He stands up to WH, calls him on the carpet, and doesn't mind if we yell and scream at each other. We just can't throw his plants. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Basically, this MC's opinion is that you have to give the M a go, before you know if it is or is not going to work. My WH has just been ignoring everything, then when anything comes up, talking about getting a D.

WH does not want to work through this. But, MC says that if he doesn't now, he will have to later. Because we have kids, and no matter what, we have to clear this crap between us.

And when they were both throwing the D word around, I didn't cry! I am not afraid of it anymore. I don't want one right now, but I want us both to be happy. And I don't know what the future holds.

I am in a good mood. I am happy. We are free to communicate frequently, initiated by either of us. The only boundary is that if we argue about something and cannot find resolution, we both agree to table the issue for the next MC session.

I can do that! I feel like my hands have been untied. But, at the same time, I have gotten used to not bugging WH, so I am hoping to find a balance that works for both of us.

I'll give more details later. I am very happy.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> SS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

doesn't mind if we yell and scream at each other.
But surely YOU are not doing that. It would be a Lovebuster and you are eliminating your lovebusters, correct?

Hm. Excellent question, Chris. I hadn't thought of that. I see what you mean.

I have eliminated love busters. Can you yell or scream anything and have it not be a love buster? Or is yelling and screaming in itself a love buster?

I have to find the ground of releasing my anger and frustration and pain, in a way that does not harm anyone else.

Thank you for asking such an excellent question, and refocusing my attention.

SS

Can you yell or scream anything and have it not be a love buster?
Of course.
When he is on his Saturday softball league and he hits gets a good hit and you are yelling, "Way to go honey! Run to 2nd". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

If you are upset with him, it is okay to let him know this. And a tthe counselors is a good place to do it.
But you do it in a way which will not slam him.

I am glad that you seesion went well. Good if you llike MC.
Sounds like he/she might be of help to both you and H.

His philosophy reminds me of Dr Phil's. That you need to earn you way out of a relationship. That you need to know you did all you could to restore relationship first.

If not you take all the unresolved issues with you into your future. Better to deal with them now. Will either result in a better marriage in the future or allow for better future relationships.

I am happy that you are feeling happy and in a better place.
love C&S

Yes.

This is one of my many challenges.

Letting my anger and ugliness out on WH.

I have noticed for years that I don't do that to my friends, but I have always let myself do that to WH (letting out my anger and ugliness).

Definately need a behavior improvement in that area. Holy cow.

Thank you, Chris. You pick up on the seemingly smallest detail, and use it to show important behavior patterns. In my opinion. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

SS

SS,

Just a quick note to say in reading your posts today, it sounds like things are looking up for you and your H. If you're both willing to do MC, that's a big start! Wish you lots of luck. Keep us posted.

LL

Sounds good SS. Now slow down and don't have any expectations. Then you will not be disappointed. I really feel that he will be back. So just keep your eyes on the instrument panel and trust that it will get you through safely.

Second page? What gives? Where's SS and believer?

Oh, I am right here, you worry-wart! Geez. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I have been posting on the Recovery board. I don't know why. I think because I feel like I am in Recovery, and OW dumped poor WH.

But thanks for saving my thread from the doom of page 2!

Believer doesn't post to me anymore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> She doesn't go to the Recovery board. Maybe she'll give me one last post over here [guilt guilt]. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> SS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />