Ok, here's the deal--

My husband and I dated for two years, and we've been married for three (next month). We have a daughter. My husband is in school, and I work. We used to be the type of couple that made people jealous.

While we were dating, my husband expressed interest in my best friend. She told him "not no, but HELL no." He said, "ok."

A year after we were married, my best friend came to me in tears, saying that my husband had come on to her. I confronted him about it, and he admitted it. When I asked him "What, you didn't understand HELL NO?" He said, "I wasn't really going to go through with it, I just wanted to see if she meant it." Then he told me, "you should be glad I got it out of my system." To this day, he insists that she would've slept with him.

Then, in the middle of last year, or maybe a bit earlier, I found out that my husband was keeping company with a girl at school. He'd never told me about her, and when I said something to him about it, he admitted the time he spent with her, but promised over and over that there was nothing going on. Eventually, I found out that, when our daughter and I went out of town every weekend to visit family, he was taking this girl out to dinner, and inviting him over to our house. She only went to dinner with him once, and then told him, "no more," but he kept asking her out every weekend anyway.

I was going through a severe depression that lasted most of last year, and I can't afford my medication. I know I wasn't easy to live with, but he exacerbated my depression because I had to work, take care of our daughter, and do all the housework. He goes to school and works 20 hours a week, and refuses to help. I'm still going through the depression, but I'm in counseling.

I also found out that he'd been telling all my friends for the past year that if I didn't quit smoking by the first of this year, that he was going to leave (I've smoked since he's known me, and it's never been an issue). He never told ME this, however. When I challenged the logic of expecting me to do something he never told me about within a time frame he never told me about, then holding it against me when I didn't, he said, "If I have to tell you, it's not worth it." I quit smoking for a month, which was very difficult, since everyone I know smokes. When I asked him why he didn't encourage me, he said,"Why should I encourage you? I don't think you can do it." He also told everyone that I was still smoking and refused to believe that I quit. I wasn't getting any appreciation for my effort, so I started up again.

When I asked him if he cared about me and his daughter, he said, "yes, but I care about myself more." When I asked him if we were ever really a "we," he said, "I'm not going to answer that."

And that's just it...he refuses to talk about whatever problems there are (he blamed me for the affair with the girl at school, saying I was too stressful to be around and that she wasn't stressful at all). He says, "we've already talked about this. I'm not discussing it anymore." But we haven't talked at all. I've talked and he's ignored me completely.

I told him that there are always problems that come up in a relationship, and you have to work them out and compromise, not run, and that he (per his history) always ran. He said, "either way, the problem gets solved." and that he would "manipulate [his] environment until it suits [him]."

The straw that broke the camel's back was on Valentine's Day. I'd gotten the day off work to spend with him, and he knew about this a week in advance. Valentine's day comes, and he didn't speak to me the whole day. He spent the entire day on the computer and ignored me completely. He didn't even so much as say "Happy Valentine's Day," and he didn't acknowledge the card I got him.

He agreed to counseling, reluctantly, and now we're in both individual and marriage counseling, though we have yet to go to our first marriage counseling session. After his first session, he said, "I don't see why I should schedule another appointment. I didn't get any major insights from the first one."

I've had it. I'm trying like hell to save my marriage, because I do love this man, but the man I'm living with is not the man I married.

If he can't find something to hold against me, he makes something up. He won't let me get close to him. He's not actively resisting, he's just not doing ANYTHING. I feel like I should ask him for money after sex--that's about how gentle and loving it is--he's attacked me online, in posts, very subtly, and he seems to take pleasure in hurting my feelings.

He says he loves me, but that he "doesn't care very deeply for anyone." The stress is getting so bad that I'm having fainting spells and nightmares. I'm not eating, and I don't get any rest. I'm anxious, and stressed, and I never get a break. My depression is worse than it's ever been. I don't know what to do.

I've read, "His Needs, Her Needs," and while I see a lot of good advice, not much of it applies to my husband. He told me once that he "doesn't care about anything, nothing means anything to [him] anymore," which leads me to think that he may be depressed. Having a psych degree myself, I looked up some things in the DSM-iv, and found that he has EVERY SINGLE symptom of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Not just a few. ALL of them.

Before he and I got married, we dated for two years. He told me he never wanted to get married again, and I told him that I wasn't going to be a girlfriend for the rest of my life. Someone else wanted to marry me, and I was going to do it. My now-husband called me up, and when I went to see him, he was crying, and said, "I love you, I need you, please don't leave me." I thought that if he could overcome his pride enough to say that, that we could make it. He was the man I wanted to be with, so I took the chance and married him. Now he's done a complete 180. It's like he only wants what he can't have, and once he's got it, he doesn't want it anymore. That's why he went after my friend, and the girl at schoool. Both of them told him NO.

I said his words back to him one night, except included our daughter in them: "we love you. We need you. Please don't leave us." He said that needing someone was a weakness, and that he couldn't give me an answer.

He ignores our daughter unless there's an audience. Doesn't feed her unless he's eating himself and she demands some, and never thinks to give her anything to drink. He just doesn't THINK about her. I asked him to change her and put her to bed one night because I was talking to a friend, and when I came inside, she had a filthy diaper, all her clothes, and her shoes were still on!

He spends time with his friends, and gets to relax whenever he wants. I rarely see my friends, and when I do, I can't enjoy it because I have to amuse my daughter (she's 2), and because she gets bored easily and I have to leave early (he won't babysit her.) He doesn't celebrate her birthday or christmas with her (he says he doesn't celebrate holidays). I had to make him buy her a birthday and christmas present just so there'd be something for her with her daddy's name on it. He's never said he loves her, or told anyone he loves her, even after I pointed it out to him. He ignores her when she cries, even when she's sick.

He's always been a control freak, emotions-wise, but it's become a hundred times worse in the past two years. He's become so cold and indifferent, so self-absorbed, since he began school, where once we were such a wonderful couple. I told him it seems that since he's gotten into school, we're not good enough for him anymore. He said, "that might be part of it." (It isn't an intelligence issue. I have TWO degrees).

He puts his family last, after his friends, associates, acquaintances, and strangers. He never spends quality time with us or includes us when he does things with friends. When he hangs out with friends (visiting their homes or going to dinner or movies), he never invites us along.

When I passed out at work the other day (and was subsequently fired because of it--and having to stay home with my daughter when she was sick because he refused), and told him, he just said, "ok." Not, "are you ok?" and then ignored me. He doesn't know I've lost my job yet. I supported him for two years, up to two weeks before I gave birth when he quit his job and refused to look for another one because everything available was "beneath him," but if I'm not working, it's despicable. He rationalizes his not working before because I "was making enough money to support us." But despite the fact that he wasn't working, he never lifted a finger around the house, and didn't help me at all after I had my daughter (she had colic for 3 months) He only got a job when I had to quit work to have my daughter. The only job he's had since is his student worker job, which is minimum wage, 20 hrs a week, and half of that goes to child support.

He only has three jobs around the house: taking out the trash once a week, mowing the grass twice a month, and cleaning the porch once a month, but I usually end up changing out the trash and cleaning the porch, and the grass hasn't been mown in a full year. I refuse to do that. It's five feet tall. It's like he decided that a family was too much responsibility, so screw it completely. He says that since he's going to school and working, he shouldn't have to do anything else. He promised to help me around the house when I got a job, but it never happened.

I can't take it anymore. I feel like I'm going to have a nervous breakdown. I'm always on edge, and always crying.

I've decided to take our daughter and leave to visit family. First my family for a week, then his family (I've been invited to their house out of state, indefinitely, maybe even to get a job there for a few months). I'm not going to tell him I'm leaving, and I'm not going to tell him where I've gone. I'm not "leaving him," I just need time away from his emotional abuse. I figure, since he said that he found he "liked being alone," that I would give him what he wanted, and see how he liked living without his family. I figure if he cares enough about us, he'll find us--at the very least when he visits his family for spring break....

As a last note, his friends all tell me that he's become less stressed, more open, and less cynical since he's been with me. But I don't see it. It's like he's Dr. Jecklyll with them and Mr. Hyde with me. (No, he's never physically harmed me. It's all emotional).

I hope I'm doing the right thing. I don't know how he feels or what he's thinking because he won't tell me.

I just need some kind of advice for dealing with a man who doesn't have a counterpart in the self-help marriage books (I've read 7 so far). He just won't make the effort. We could be good again, but he won't let us be.

Thanks.

Sidhe

I read your post earlier...and started one of my long babbling posts...about things YOU can do to try to get this back on track...and in the middle I referred back your post....and I have to say that I believe that the actions your husband engages...and the things he says...that this may be one of those cases that it may be better to walk and attempt to fix from seperate corners rather than stay in this situation...

I would not say this if you did not have children...but you do...and she needs protected from him at this point....

the smoking
the pre-marriage best friend stuff
stupid power struggles that difuse and distract the issues...are little things...

the scary stuff...the stuff that I think HE alone needs to admit and address....

When I asked him if he cared about me and his daughter, he said, "yes, but I care about myself more." When I asked him if we were ever really a "we," he said, "I'm not going to answer that."


He said, "either way, the problem gets solved." and that he would "manipulate [his] environment until it suits [him]."

he's attacked me online, in posts, very subtly, and he seems to take pleasure in hurting my feelings.


He doesn't celebrate her birthday or christmas with her (he says he doesn't celebrate holidays).

He's never said he loves her, or told anyone he loves her, even after I pointed it out to him. He ignores her when she cries, even when she's sick.

I asked him to change her and put her to bed one night because I was talking to a friend, and when I came inside, she had a filthy diaper, all her clothes, and her shoes were still on!

I don't think you should play with this..
or toy with this...
I don't think you should trivialize this..

I think you should leave and protect you and your daughter...and he either gets serious counselling...

you are not living with your husband..a person who has vowed to God to love honor and cherish..you are living with your enemy...

Do not go to his family's...only to yours...find a strong strong support group...

I am not saying this will ever resolve...but I do believe...

He needs a serious wake up call and trying that with you and daughter in the house...is futile...

He needs to be exposed to friends and family as to what a snake he is...I'm sure you protect him from them knowing...

He needs to decide that he is the one person on this planet besides you here to protect HIS daughter...or he decides differently...and then you need to protect her from him...

I know this is not the answer you want...
but read what is highlighted...the longer you stay emeshed with this sick behavior the harder it will be to leave..
the more damage will be done to you and your daughter....

I tried it the other way...I tried the post where you take responsibility in supporting him..
and you quit the power struggling over the futile stuff and you engage him with daughter...and it left a bitter taste in my mouth...and it would not have worked...

if he doesn't change he will be a lonely bitter person...devoid of light in his life...but you can't change him..
but you don't have be sucked into his darkness either...
leave him now....
and see if he's willing to work and work and work at fixing this...
I don't think this is one that you put back on the tracks yourself....

ark...

Thanks for the thoughts on this...I've decided to leave him a letter explaining why I've gone, but I'm not going to tell him where I'm going. The letter is already written.

My stomach is roiling at the very idea of leaving and being without my husband. I literally feel ill.

I keep thinking about how good things used to be, and confused about how things got off track. It's so hurtful that the man who used to talk to me for hours refuses to talk when it's most critical.

The idea that he might not care enough to work at our marriage causes me extreme anxiety. I don't understand how someone could throw a family away so easily. It's beyond my comprehension. I mean, I'm literally floored--that numb kind of wondering realization, you know?

Sidhe

sidhe...

I don't think you should leave and not tell him where you are going...

I think you should be 100000000000000% completely honest....
100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000% infact...

See when we want and desire intimacy and honesty from our spouses..it is darn important htat we act honestly with them...

Leaving without telling him where you are ...sets you up for so many things to backfire on you..
and all focus will be thrust on you for abandoning him..

all anger and frustration will be fueled in to you left him....without disclosing..

it smacks of game playing and one upping...

you are leaving because he is not protecting you and his daughter...
you are leaving because his treatment of you and your daughter is inexecusable...

you are leaving FOR you and your daughter..
not to hurt him
not to make a point
not to humiliate him but because it is the right thing to do for YOU and YOUR daughter....

run and hide from him...and the games are on...

months will be lost blaming you for this and that...

You want to diffuse this as much as you possibly can.....

he is not husband and dad material right now...
You be the mom and the protector but be honest about it...

he can probably slap you with legal ramifications...
he can turn this on you..and the two of you will be in a battle over your daughter..or worse yet he will do what he needs to get you back harboring anger...and then one day he will run off with her just to one up you..or show you what it feels like...

no game playing
complete honesty on your part..

I am leaving right now because I no longer feel safe here...
ALL of your actions and words speak of someone who is not interested in being my partner...

please please do not make this a game...

post the letter people will help you here...

ARK

Listen to ark^^, she is right.

Who cares if your letter is written? Write another one.

Your notion to leave is good.
You need to make sure your H knows the valid reasons why (protection.

Do you think he'll try to harm you after you leave? That is the only reason I can think of for not telling him where you're going. You don't want to put yourself, your daughter, or your family at risk. If you don't think you're in danger then you definitely need to tell him where you're going. You can't get him to be honest if you're not willing to be honest and open yourself.

No, I don't think he'll harm us. The reason I didn't want to tell him where we were going is because I wanted to see

1. How long it took for him to realize we were gone

2. Whether or not he would care enough to ask around to see if our friends knew where we were

3. Whether he would actually try to find us

I've altered the letter to tell him where I'll be going first. I don't feel comfortable doing it, though, because it seems that it's making it too easy for him to leave us in Limbo...as in, he'll be alone like he wants, while still knowing where to find us if he feels like it. To my way of thinking, if he didn't know where we were, it would make the situation seem more real to him. Am I wrong in that?

Sidhe

You'll be GONE. That's pretty real.

To disappear and make it a "test" to see how much he cares is very childish. It's just like pouting and saying "one day I'll be dead and THEN they'll be sorry!..."

Besides, what difference would it make if he asked around or not? If he tried to find you or not? Either way you could only guess at his motives; you wouldn't really know why he did or didn't do something unless you ask him and he answers truthfully.

Set the good example, don't play games. Be honest.

Ok. Put that way, I guess I see the point. Thanks.

Sidhe