I have been thinking about this for the past couple of days and thought I would post it.

I have learned that because of childhood issues (sexual abuse, abandonment, neglect) H has felt like a worthless loser for a long, long time. He’s been caught in a vicious cycle of drinking to dull his pain and having A’s to try to validate his worthiness.

I guess what bothers me with the OW(s), especially the last one, is that they will never know that they did not mean a thing to my H. Unfortunately, H selfishly got involved with these OW searching for the love, attention, admiration, etc. that he never got from his mother.

H’s mother was a plain, mousy-looking brunette woman. Not real attractive, never really had many dates or much attention from men (although after she got married, she had several A’s). ALL OF H’s OW(s) match this same description. I have to think there’s a connection there. I don’t match the description at all. I’m completely opposite.

I guess I’ll never forget what the last OW said to me (she called me after I notified her H about the A). She said that I had no idea of the feelings between she and my H. That I could continue living in my little dream world (some dream world, huh? My H has an A??), thinking that I knew how my H felt about her, but I had no clue. Like the only reason they are not together is because they lived in different states and neither would move or divorce (1st A). Then I found out and wrecked their relationship (2nd A).

It just isn’t so. There was no great love between H and any of the OW. The only thing H loved was how he felt…the in-love feeling, the somebody wants me feeling, the somebody desires me feeling…someone basically saying that he was handsome, sexy, nice, etc. That’s what H loved. It was all about H not about OW. A sign of this is that H is very generous. He has given me flowers, cards, jewelry, etc. again and again and again since we met. None of the OW(s) got anything. They paid for dinner, drinks, etc., they sent cards.

H went NC on both d-days in our M and never looked back at the OW(s). Never went through withdrawal. H has said repeatedly that he has no feelings for them…he just got his ego stroked.

It’s too bad the last OW doesn’t know that H was absolutely at his worst during their A. H is an alcoholic and he had finally hit bottom. He was drinking more during the PA than I had ever seen him drink. He weighed more than he ever has before. He looked awful.


I believe the vicious cycle is broken. H is in AA and IC. H has not had a drink in almost 5 months. H has lost about 45 pounds in the last eight months and looks great. He is working out his childhood/mother issues, intimacy issues and become mentally healthy. The vicious cycle has been broken.

From reading emails, old letters, listening to voice mail messages, etc.…I believe the OW(s) thought they were something special. I believe they thought H loved them. I wish they knew that it is not true.

Which brings me to my question. BS’s - What do you wish you could tell the OW or OM or wished they knew?

Working on a good recovery.

sss

<small>[ March 09, 2004, 06:59 AM: Message edited by: stillsosad ]</small>

I saw some emails my H had written to OW.

They were SO FULL of out and out lies, I was flabbergasted. My H just doesn't make stuff up; this was totally out of character for him. But he talked about classes he'd taken, his "best friend" (a colleague of mine, from the UK and with hobbies that make it easy to present him as very intriguing and colorful).

I mean, the soulmate stuff, the "my wife doesn't understand me", the "I never loved my wife" -- all that normal fog talk I can understand now. But the complete and total out and out fabrications of fact... he SO misrepresented himself.

She was "in love" with a fabrication.

You know what is sad? I asked him why he made up those stories and he said he just wanted to look good to her, make a good impression. That is *so* sad to me. My H is the LAST person on earth who needs to embellish who he is. He is just awesome. OW doesn't know that though. She only knows a mirage.

I wish my X's OW - now wife, knew that she wasn't the first to turn his cheating head...that in fact she was number four or five by my reckoning. And that doesn't make her all that special IMO.

I wish she knew he had brought home two std's to me over the years as well as putting us at enormous risk of getting aids. I wish she knew he had asked for a reconciliation six weeks before he married her....and that I turned him down, and when I later asked why he had married her, his reply was not that he loved her or wanted to be with her, but that he "...had to do SOMETHING".

I wish she could have seen the pain on the faces of my children when they found out about her. I wish she could feel one tenth of the pain their actions caused me.

And I wish she could be told the truth about each and every lie he has told her about me and our marriage....yes there are many, some of which she related to me in an email once, which I didn't bother to reply to.

I could call her and tell her those things, but why bother? She won't believe me, and I don't really care all that much anymore anyway. I guess I just wish she knew she wasn't getting such a prize catch after all. Maybe she is starting to realise that on her own anyway, lol.

Who cares....

I wish they all knew the devestation the cause to an entire family, not just the spouse. The children are affected, both sets of parents are affected, siblings are affected, friends are affected. Everyone close to a marriage has to deal with the pain of an affair in some way. I wish the OP had to be around to deal with the reality of what they helped to cause.

I wish Lana [OW] knew that it was my ex-H that didn't want to participate in the OCs lives, unlike his lies to the contrary and instead blaming me as the escape goat.

I wish she knew of the big speech of his when trying to get me to reconcile with him saying "I don't want anything to do with those women or their babies, they both burned me and got pregnant deliberately and tried to trap me KNOWING I was married, they're both losers"

I wish she knew how manipulative he is ... hey wait ... wish granted. LMAO! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She was "in love" with a fabrication </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is it exactly! They never saw H drunk, stupid and unable to stand up. They never saw H passed out by 9:00 at night because he started drinking right after work. They never saw him gamble way too much money away or go into his drinking/gambling zone and not talk to anyone. They never saw H manipulating our family life for his own selfish needs, they never saw....(fill in the blank)!

I guess I wish this because I think the OW(s) would move right back in with so much as a glance from my H. Because they still only see the fabricated H.

H has always been a conflict-avoider so A's ended by either H not returning calls, emails or letters. Or, in the last case, calling OW telling her not to contact him anymore because I found out about the A. Not that he loved me and wanted to stay married to me. Not that the whole A was a sick ego trip for him. Of course, this was all before I/we found MB.

I believe that H has the door shut tight and if they were to contact him, he would hang up, ignore email/letters and tell me about them.

H does love me. H does want to be married to me. I believe this more than ever. His actions towards me the last two months prove this.

OW#1 lives in our area. We run into OW and her H from time to time. OW#1 looks at H with such longing...like she's waiting for a sign from him...to jump right back in. They were in an A together for 10 - 12 years during H's first M. She begged him to leave his XW. H told me that when she found out that he got divorced, she wrote him a letter and called him to tell him that now they could be together...blah, blah, blah. H did not respond...did not say anything one way or the other.

OW#2/4 thinks they have something special because they've had two A's now. I think she believes they are star-crossed lovers or something and that *circumstances* just keep them apart. H did not and does not have any feelings for her...the A's were just more ego-stroking for him.

OW#3 probably thinks the same thing. When I caught the A, H simply told her not to contact him any more because I had found out.

Truth is, he is disgusted with himself, his past and the OW(s). He said all of the OW(s) were just cheap thrills for him.

None of them know the real H. The XW never even knew the real H. The real H just started coming out during the past five months and I'm just beginning to get to know him.


H has said several times that he does not want to be that person anymore. He is starting to like himself and feels great. And the best part is that he showers me with love every day.

I kinda like the real H.

I wish the OW(s) knew that they didn't even know him. Didn't even come close.

Wishing you all the best.

sss

Hey Res,

Good to see your post! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

As for wishing (how many do I get - LOL!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

1. OW would finally wake up and get some professional help.

2. OW would look in the mirror and see what a failure she is.

3. OW would stop pretending she is this great smart thing when in reality she is a bully.

4. OW would stop threatening and start speaking the truth.

5. OW would recant her RO threat and really tell the judge why she filed the RO. re: because the WS ended the A and she wanted revenge. Words out of her mouth but not what she told the judge. arrrgh..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> That would mean she would have to admit to perjuring herself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Guess that may be a bit too much to wish for but you asked. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

L.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What do you wish you could tell the OW or OM or wished they knew?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Interesting....
I think the OW has to know on some level after trying twice to lure my H away from me -

1. That she was not the love of his life... I AM! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

2. She represents his distant past, while I am his past, present AND future all rolled into one.


Take Care,
Shelle

Hi sss,

Your post sent a chill down my spine. It is so similar to what is happening with my H. But I am still in the middle of the nightmare.

If you could, I would be extremely grateful for any advice you have. I am lost as to whether or not a Plan B is right, or to continue in Plan A. I thought we were having a wonderful recovery and it is has all gone to ruin in the past month.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> H has felt like a worthless loser for a long, long time. He&#8217;s been caught in a vicious cycle of drinking to dull his pain and having an A to try to validate his worthiness.

Unfortunately, H selfishly got involved with this OW searching for love, attention, admiration, etc.

The only thing H loved was how he felt&#8230;the somebody wants me feeling, the somebody desires me feeling&#8230;someone basically saying that he was handsome, sexy, nice, etc. That&#8217;s what H loved. It was all about H not about OW. A sign of this is that H is very generous. He has given me flowers, cards, jewelry, etc. again and again and again since we met. None of the OW(s) got anything. They paid for dinner, drinks, etc., they sent cards.

H went NC on d-day and never looked back at the OW. Never went through withdrawal. H has said repeatedly that he has no feelings for her&#8230;he just got his ego stroked.

H was absolutely at his worst during their A. He was drinking more during the PA than I had ever seen him drink. He weighed more than he ever has before. He looked awful.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've edited it so that you can see the similarities. The difference is that now he is convincing himself that he does love her. He's re-writing their time together and our recovery time together (and our M time together again).

He has not hit bottom. He is drinking again. Please if you have any insight, I would really appreciate it.

Merge

merge -

I'm so sorry to hear that you are going through this. It's so hard dealing with an alcoholic, let alone an A. They rewrite history and manipulate everyone around them to feed their own selfish needs...to drink and do whatever makes them feel good.

I think the key for us was making H accountable for his actions. This really was the turning point.

At about 3 months past d-day, he was still drinking...trying *controlled drinking* and lying about the A. When I found out that we went through almost 3 months of MC and he was still lying, I asked him to move out. I told him that I needed time to decide what I wanted to do (stay married and try to recover or divorce).

After about two weeks, I told H that I would continue working on our M if he:

*Went to an IC to learn the why's of his addictive behavior (A's, drinking, gambling, etc.).

*Committed to being honest about his/our past, present and future.

*Read SAA, HNHN and any other book dealing with infidelity and/or relationships.

I specifically did not say go to AA (although the IC I found is an addictions specialist-thought he might end up at AA that way).

H continued down the same path for a while. I'm sure it was hard for him since he was living with a friend of his that is also an active alcoholic. We continued the classic alcoholic power struggle...he tells me what I want to hear, controls drinking, loses control, gets smashed, blames me for all of his problems, runs away, I run after him...blah, blah, blah. Until one time I had finally had it. He got smashed (again) and we got into a huge argument. He ran away (again). But...this time I did not go after him. I did not call him. Did not see him. Nothing.

H freaked. Kept trying to call. Tried to call my kids. Showed up at my kids' soccer games and tried to talk to me, etc. He finally realized I was serious.

He was held accountable for his own actions and behavior. It was up to him. He had hit bottom - living with another alcoholic in a tiny mobile home without his beautiful wife and wonderful step-kids.

H realized he did not want to lose me, our M, etc. and committed to IC and the rest of the stuff on my list. After about 3 sessions with IC, she told him he needed to go to AA...he wasn't happy about that. He went though and knew from that very first meeting that AA was where he belonged.

We were separated about six weeks or so. It was a very long six weeks. It was hard to do.

We still struggled through the next three months with H still fighting recovery a little, not wanting to discuss the A and problems in our relationship prior to A, his drinking, etc. It wasn't until about two months ago, while starting the 12 steps and working with his AA sponsor that things finally clicked for H and we are now in true recovery.

I hope this helps. Every person is so different. Every alcoholic is so different. But I do think the key is standing firm, setting boundries, determining what you will live with. Either your H will join you or not.

Good luck.

sss

sss - so glad to be posting on one of your links <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Ahhh, what I wish OW knew...

1) OW would realize that her lack of self respect is sickening

2) OW would realize that being a mother is admirable and that refering to her S as a 'loser'...well, is a direct reflection of her failure as a mother

3) OW would realize that being a wife is admirable and that referring to her H as a 'loser'...well, another direct reflection of her failure (I'm with Orchid...she's a failure)

4) OW would realize that it is her choice to lead a life full of bitterness and hate and it's wrong to push that life onto others.

5) OW would realize (and care) that her selfish acts will forever effect the lives of her children

6) OW would look in the mirror and see the pathetic life she leads and do something about it before she ruins more lives.

Heck, I just wish they had known my H was married. I think it would have weeded some of them out.

I wish that OP would realize and admit that no matter the lip service to beg differently that their actions have a direct impact on people besides the WS...

I wish that OP would say that regardless of the WS spouse pursuit of them
regardless of the WS testimony about how bad it is at home
regardless of the WS testimony about how controled and abused they are...
regardless of any thing the WS tell the OP...

that the OP is still accountable for their decision to engage in an affair...
and accountable that their actions steal time, energy and resources from innocents at a cost of exteme pain and damage...and that they also are responsible for that loss and pain...

that they are "guilty" by association...and not removed from that quotient...as they love to claim to be...

And i wish that they would admit that marriage vows mean something ...that they are a standard...not something that is in effect only when they feel or decide it has meaning...

I wish they could see the irony and hypocrosy of their claims and statements like ...

I didn't make vows with him/her and in the next breath claiming to wish to be married to the same person and make vows with them...

I wish that no OP in the history of OP will ever ever ever again utter the insane words that the children would be better off ....

whooo I believe I could go on and on...
must have been a BS in another life....cause I am certainly on a roll...

ark

Amen, Pep.

Pepperband - I have read a lot of your posts. You are a very insightful person and have managed here to put bitterness and pain aside to see the pain of another...one who has no doubt hurt you...

It takes a special kind of person to say...to even think...what you just said. Thank you

LET'S SEE WHAT WOULD I SAY TO OW.. PROBABLY A FEW WORDS THAT I SHOULDN'T SAY. BUT THEN I WOULD LIKE TO PUNCH HER LIGHTS OUT... WHY? BECAUSE SHE WAS... HERE'S A SURPRISE..SHE WAS MY BESTFRIEND.THAT IS WHAT HURT THE MOST FOR ME..

Well, she does know this and actually fears it (out of her mouth):

Hell hath no fury like a Sicilian woman scorned. My revenge will be slow and sweet. It may not come today, tomorrow or next week. But as sure as the sun rises every morning, I will get this pig if it is the last thing I ever do. :-)

Wow

I wish every OW would read this thread!

I know if I was an OW it would stop me in my tracks!

You should all be so proud of yourselves for going through these things and still being here to tell the tale, stronger than ever!