I'm in a very bad state. I'm at the point now where I'm not sure I want to save the marriage anymore... For one thing, it's been some time now that I don't think there's a marriage to even save anymore. My wife has not been in love with me for many years and after all we've been through I don't think she has the capacity to be so. I've struggled with this and we've struggled with this, and I thought had acheived a bearable, if not ideal, equilibrium, but events over the last couple of years have upset that equilibrium and I think it's over.

For one thing, my number one emotional need; 'to be desired' has not been met in over 6 years. It led to an affair on my part 4 years ago and we came here to try to save and rebuild our relationship. Nothing has changed since then except that I've seen her desire another person (1 year ago) and I've seen her fall in love with another person (before x-mas)and in that latter case, her behaviours were exactly those I have yearned for only they were focussed on our roommate instead of me.

We've been separated for 2 1/2 months now and it's gone dismally. The affair is apparently over (I think she's lying though) but more importantly, not only has she not put any effort into reconciliation, it's almost as if she's purposely drawing out my pain.

I'm filled with resentment over her attitude. I don't care about the affair itself. That I have forgiven and put behind me, but everything attached to it I can't forget. How she knowingly hurt me on a daily basis, for example.

I'm at the point where I'm feeling that I deserve so much better. I don't think I could ever trust her again and even if she came back to me, her attitude is that I should just get over it and there's no acknowledgement of my pain or her part in causing it. I can't get past this and don't know what to do.

I want to move on... to pick up the pieces of my life and try to find some happiness. I feel that on levels that she may not be even aware of she hates me and I say this because her emotional attacks on me have been too precise and well timed and profound to have been done on purpose. (If that makes any sense)

I've given up hope and am not sure I want to find it again.

Can anyone help me with my perspective on this? I'm begging here, because I'm at my wits end.

ok, I'm gonna break this down and be a bit more honest...

-I don't want to save this.
-I've been hurt beyond even my ability to comprehend.
-I've been alone now for a while and though I miss her like crazy, I don't relish the thought of going back to that emotional wasteland (not that it's been presented as an option)
-Starting with someone new, with the wisdom I've gained is very attractive.
-I have sense of duty that would supercede all of the above, and I'm afraid of that, because I want to be happy and I have no reason to believe that I ever could be.
-I'm posting this because I need advice and guidance.
-I'm so sick of being the absolute last priority.
-My Bible tells me that adultry is a valid reason for divorce, but Jesus also says to forgive, and to go the extra mile. God has given me great guidance thus far, but has gone silent on this one.
-I need to approach this with some Grace, but am too confused to be able to see clearly...

<small>[ March 16, 2004, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: dewt ]</small>

-My Bible tells me that adultry is a valid reason for divorce, but Jesus also says to forgive, and to go the extra mile. God has given me great guidance thus far, but has gone silent on this one.

Although I'm in a situation where I desparately WANT my marriage to succeed despite the A on my WH's part (and am afraid it won't), I do totally agree with your statement. From what I interpret, it is true that God hates D, but in the case of marital unfaithfulness, IF the betrayed spouse's heart is hardened toward the other spouse and they don't desire to reconcile or can't reconcile, it is permitted and that spouse can remarry without committing adultry.

(Though my sticking point on this is that I assume this means the spouse must also marry someone who was either never married, is widowed, or is divorced because their spouse was unfaithful. This is where I get really confused.)

LL

Dewt,

I posted to your W many years ago. I am sorry that your situation persists. My thoughts on this are really very simple. First, IF her A has ended, then she is probably in withdrawal, and so any expectations of kindness on her part are probably premature. Second, if there are no changes on her part, then nothing changes, that is pretty self-evident. Third, this is a marriage builders site as you know and IF you don't want to rebuild after this, and she shows no inclination to rebuild, then I think the result is pretty clear: it won't be rebuilt.

I would like to think that your W learned something in her time here and especially with all of the help she got, but perhaps she did not. It is clear from her A's that she has fallen far, but she could be lifted up, IF you decide to give it a further effort.

So the choice now rests in your hands as it always does, the BS must often make all of the effort for quite awhile. You must choose, if you decide to the people here will do their best to help.

God Bless,

JL

lordslady

Thanks for your reply. It's kinda neat that you did as I've come to lurk a few times when in need of stregnth and your long plan b thread was the one I read when I was here last. I even cut and pasted parts of it when I was planning one of my own. I have a great respect for you and really appreciated seeing your name in my thread.

My heart is in the process of hardening. I kept a journal throughout the affair, but did it on paper as the pc was down at the time. I wanted to put into e-format and only got through 12 pages before I had to put it down. I was in a deep pit for about a week and haven't opened it since. As this has drawn out and I've seen no changes in her, I've become less hopeful and with that loss of hope comes the hardening. Also just thinking about the callous way in which she hurt me... knowingly... repeatedly... eeeesh. It's something I've never seen in her, nor even suspected existed as part of her personality. I don't like it and it is certainly not the kind of thing I want in a wife. That's where I'm loosing it.

That she hasn't been in love with me for so many years doesn't help. Part of me is coming to believe that her subconcious set this all up to drive me away because she was unable to just outright leave me.

I've come to rely on God and His Word for guidance lately, and am missing it right now.

JL

I remember you, and appreciate all that you did then, and for your replies now.

I don't think her affair is ended. Not so much that they are still being intimate... (that I just don't know and don't care to, really) but they are definitely still in regular contact. That much I do care about and it has helped in killing my desire to see this marriage rebuild.

I'm having a major crisis as to wether or not I want to rebuild. I've realized lately how miserable I've been all these years with my major, number one need being all but ignored and even if she wanted to rebuild, I don't see that changing. One the other hand, one thing I developed here, 4 yrs ago, was a deep sense of duty and commitment. There's a major conflict within me in regards to these two things.

I would have like to believe the same thing about her time here. I brought that up, even. I pointed out how all her actions and statements were text book examples of things she'd offered her advice on back then. It was like talking to a stone.

I know there are many here who've plan A'd extensively... over years... and am in awe of their stregnth. I don't know that I can have that kind of fortitude without hope- which for a long time I've been denied or worse, had dangled in front of my face then yanked away.

Right now I don't know that I want to have fortitude- starting over or moving on just seems so profoundly attractive on soooo many levels. I'm ashamed of my lack of staying power, but at the same time can't help but asking, "Don't I have the right to be happy? Don't I have the right to be with someone who is in love with me, as I am with them?"

I KNOW this is a marriage building site... but I'm ready to throw in the towel and am afraid of doing the wrong thing. Not sure what the right thing vrs the wrong thing is anymore. Very confused and emotionally fried.

<small>[ March 08, 2004, 10:51 PM: Message edited by: dewt ]</small>

Dewt,

I KNOW this is a marriage building site... but I'm ready to throw in the towel and am afraid of doing the wrong thing. Not sure what the right thing vrs the wrong thing is anymore. Very confused and emotionally fried.

My only advice on this one is pray a lot and hold off just a little while longer and see if your WW's withdrawal subsides. As you know, I don't want to divorce (though in times of great pain have been ready to run to the attorney myself just to put an end to things), but I've had several of my friends who are divorced tell me, "You'll know for sure when it's time."

I think if you do something that you're not sure in your heart was the right thing to do, you may regret it later. It sounds like you are still somewhat unsure.

LL

Gotta be brief... got breakfast to cook for th' boy and I...

I took my vows seriously... and my heart has been screaming 'NOOOOOOOOO!!!!' since this all began. It's getting a little hoarse, in fact.

I'll write more when I get home from work.

dewt

Dewt,

I've seen your posts before, and I know you've really been through the wringer.

-I don't want to save this.

Are you certain? If you have *any* doubts, you need to figure out whether they are true doubts (maybe a little piece of you somewhere DOES want to save this and isn't ready to give up on it) or whether you are certain you're done with the whole thing and the "doubts" are really disappointments in her, yourself, and how things turned out. Be certain.

-I've been alone now for a while and though I miss her like crazy, I don't relish the thought of going back to that emotional wasteland (not that it's been presented as an option)

What do you miss about her? Do you miss HER, and the person she has proven to be over the last several years? Or do you miss the person she was and who you think she can be again? Or is it the familiarity, the knowing what to expect, the comfortable routine? You might be confusing breaking a habit (of having her around) with missing her.

-I have sense of duty that would supercede all of the above, and I'm afraid of that, because I want to be happy and I have no reason to believe that I ever could be.

Why on earth not? You know yourself so much better now, you know what makes a relationship work. You have the tools to be happy. You're certainly not "undeserving" of happiness. You know you are responsible for your own happiness and that it doesn't come from someone else. Why couldn't you be happy?

-My Bible tells me that adultry is a valid reason for divorce, but Jesus also says to forgive, and to go the extra mile. God has given me great guidance thus far, but has gone silent on this one.

You HAVE gone the extra mile. I don't know if you've forgiven, but that takes time and if the forgiveness isn't complete I know you're working on it, based on previous posts of yours as well as this one. Forgiveness doesn't mean embracing the person into your life, you know. Victims forgive their attackers every day but they don't accept them into their lives.

-I need to approach this with some Grace, but am too confused to be able to see clearly...

Then just wait a while longer.

God, your wife sounds EXACTLY like my husband. I can't offer advice because I'm thisclose to plan B, and I'm just as confused and hopeless as you are, but I CAN sympathize.

Sidhe

turtlehead,

Thank you for a great reply. I'm going to think about these things and come back tomorrow... It's too late right now to be cohesive.

Thank you so much for asking these questions... I need to sort this out.

dewt

LadySidhe,

Y'know, sometimes sympathy is as good as (if not better)than advice or insight. Thank you soooooo much. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

dewt

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by turtlehead:
<strong> Dewt,

I've seen your posts before, and I know you've really been through the wringer.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, yeah, I kinda have... but it's not like I can avoid taking my share of the responsibility... this whole experience has a karmic ring to it that makes it difficult to feel sorry for myself, as much as it hurts. Others here have had it so much worse and keep going on, so in a way I feel kind of weak... being ready to give up so soon. It's just that the issues are old issues and I don't see them being resolved.

Are you certain? If you have *any* doubts, you need to figure out whether they are true doubts (maybe a little piece of you somewhere DOES want to save this and isn't ready to give up on it) or whether you are certain you're done with the whole thing and the "doubts" are really disappointments in her, yourself, and how things turned out. Be certain.

I'm not certain. I have a very strong sense of duty to family, and I think I'm afraid that could draw me back into a situation that has no happy ending. By the values that I learned here 4 years ago, I'm forced to keep trying... but... if I'm the only one trying... gaaah... this is where I lose it. She's not in love with me... I've tried over the years to be devoted and meet her needs, and succeeded in some, failed in others... and in many respects our relationship was a happy one, but I could never 'make' her fall in love with me... and in retrospect, I don't think she really wanted to anyway. I'm weary of trying. Particularily now, after all of this. It's also not something you can really 'make' someone do.

What do you miss about her? Do you miss HER, and the person she has proven to be over the last several years? Or do you miss the person she was and who you think she can be again? Or is it the familiarity, the knowing what to expect, the comfortable routine? You might be confusing breaking a habit (of having her around) with missing her.

I miss having the other half of me in my life. Neither of us are perfect... far from it. We have an awesome history, and one of the greatest love stories going... also way too much tragedy. And again, long ago her flame for me went out and never relit. Over the past 2 years I've seen flickers of that flame, but it's been lit for other people - not me. As for the habit, well, I've kind of had it ripped from me, but you may have a point.

Why on earth not? You know yourself so much better now, you know what makes a relationship work. You have the tools to be happy. You're certainly not "undeserving" of happiness. You know you are responsible for your own happiness and that it doesn't come from someone else. Why couldn't you be happy?

Because I'm human and I have insecurities and needs and they are tied closely together. My biggest need is to have someone be in love with me. By 'in love' I mean the physical manifestation of real love... the desire to touch and be intimate... to please each other... to be shown, regularily how much the person cares for me in a way that I can feel, taste and touch. I can certainly be happy in other ways, but being with someone who has no desire within herself to be intimate with me is very lonely and emotionaly devastating to me. Particularily over long periods of time.

You HAVE gone the extra mile. I don't know if you've forgiven, but that takes time and if the forgiveness isn't complete I know you're working on it, based on previous posts of yours as well as this one. Forgiveness doesn't mean embracing the person into your life, you know. Victims forgive their attackers every day but they don't accept them into their lives.

But... I question if I've gone ENOUGH of the extra mile... Forgiveness of the affair? Done. Done while it was happening even. I've done way to much in my jaded life to sit in judgement on this topic. Forgiveness of the callous disregard in the blatant face of my suffering... that's another story. Even I, in my worst sin, could never do that - not on purpose. Could I get over it if she pronounced a heartfelt desire to save our family? Yes. Without a doubt, yes. Could I forget and ever fully trust again? Ahhhhh, this I do not know. I have huge abandonment issues. Huge... they go way back and run very deep.

Then just wait a while longer.

This I'm finding difficult. I could accept a separation of a few weeks as an emotional reset... to get the thinking straight... a couple of months even, but she's talking 6 months to a year, and that violates every notion I have of commitment to marriage, parenting and family. It's not the kind of thing you just up and take a years sabatical from... I realize that each of us needs to grow... but the question is; do we grow together or do we grow apart? 6 months to a year will have me so far from her emotionally that I cannot see a reunion. I've stewed in the abandonment issues for almost 2 1/2 months and I'm already ready to say that really and truly I expect more from the woman I call 'Wife'. An affair I could forgive in a heartbeat (really and truly)... but walking away from the family unit, and doing so with the attitude that it's really alright, normal and that my pain is an over reaction... this is hard to get past.

I hope you write back. I hope you challenge the heck out of me, because only by beating this horse to death can I be sure that I'm on the right track. (no offense to any horses in the audience)

I talked to her tonight and told her that if she really and truly wants out, I will support decision fully and commit to being as helpful as I can in facilitating her relocation to the area I have moved to. Wether we're married or not, we're parents together and my son needs his Mom in his life.

She made some derogatory comments about my ability to 'plan A' her and that I'm not doing a good job of being attractive to her. I told her that I was not trying to win her back. If she did not believe she could be in love with me, then I did not want her back. Why would I sentence her to a life with someone whe wasn't in love with. I told her that if she was ready to give herself over completely to rebuilding, then I'd be there trying with her, with all my heart, but that I would no longer try to talk her into it, or pressure her or woo her back into my life. It was her decision and she would have to make it.

She commented that since leaving her I'd done a great job and after all the MB stuff I picked up over the years I'd make someone a great husband. I said, 'yup' and that that was exactly what I intended to do. (Not in a threatening context, but she got the point) She went pretty quiet after that.

I just can't stand the limbo anymore. My life is going to go places and it will with or without her. My love for her and my sense of duty would make it possible for me to take her back, but I don't feel willing to wait around for someone who will drag my heart through the mud.

She's wishy-washily waiting for her feelings to make things clear to her. It isn't going to happen. Decisions must be made and followed up on. Otherwise... stalemate. I've had enough, and now my son knows that a divorce may happen and I won't subject him to a limbo that he has no resources to deal with.

Ok... that last half of this post was kind of fired out there, straight from the heart to the keyboard... I'm going to stop now cause I have things to deal with tomorrow that require my full attention. I hope to hear from you folks... tear me apart, please. If there's flaws in my reasoning, I'd like to pick them to bits. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

dewt

<small>[ March 10, 2004, 10:36 PM: Message edited by: dewt ]</small>

Dewt,

You said a few things I thought I would reply to. You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But... I question if I've gone ENOUGH of the extra mile... Forgiveness of the affair? Done. Done while it was happening even. I've done way to much in my jaded life to sit in judgement on this topic. Forgiveness of the callous disregard in the blatant face of my suffering... that's another story. Even I, in my worst sin, could never do that - not on purpose. Could I get over it if she pronounced a heartfelt desire to save our family? Yes. Without a doubt, yes. Could I forget and ever fully trust again? Ahhhhh, this I do not know. I have huge abandonment issues. Huge... they go way back and run very deep. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you have and can do these things then you have done ENOUGH. But, you know that you cannot make your W love you. She has to be willing to love you and allow you to love her. She is not now.

You mentioned divorce to her but did you notice that she did not accept your offer? She is very confused and sitting on the fence. THIS IS PRECISELY the point to go to Plan B. Leave her alone and don't speak to her until the A is over.

You must wait for it to end, that is the part that is hard to grasp in the Harley approach. It is really waiting for the A to end, and in Plan A showing the WS that you can accept them back. You can change. If you have showed and expressed these things, then plan B is where you should be.

In plan B you will learn which path it is you are going to take. Your conflict strongly suggests that you are not ready to file for divorce yourself. Therefore, don't and don't worry about it. YOU WILL KNOW WHEN IT IS TIME. It is not time yet. Go to plan B to preserve what love is left, and see if you can wait out her affair from that position. It may be that you will run out of love, but hopefully your heart will NOT HARDEN. A hard heart is very difficult to recover from. Look at your W.

So go to plan B, think good and generous thoughts about your W, and allow time to tell you which is the right path. It will and so will your W.

So relax, give this time, and then reevaluate your position in a few more months. Go to plan B and let her address her issues and her A. You are struggling with something YOU cannot control. Your W's addiction to the A.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

dewt,

I miss having the other half of me in my life.

I had to comment on this one. This is why I can't accept the possibility that my WH and I may never be back together. I truly feel he is a part of me after 23 years together.

LL

JL,

Once again, thank you for your reply. I can't tell you how much it means to me to have people to talk this through with. I'm in a new town and you folks here are pretty much all I've got.

On to your points...

If you have and can do these things then you have done ENOUGH. But, you know that you cannot make your W love you. She has to be willing to love you and allow you to love her. She is not now.

Yep. I feel I've done enough... heck, my wife could make the same claim... but could I do more? That is the question. Could I, and would I?

No, I can't make her love me. I've been trying, really I have... and yes, she has to be willing and it's been a very long time that she has not been willing. Long before even my affair, 4 yrs ago.

You mentioned divorce to her but did you notice that she did not accept your offer? She is very confused and sitting on the fence. THIS IS PRECISELY the point to go to Plan B. Leave her alone and don't speak to her until the A is over.

I have a theory about this... I don't know that she is capable of accepting my offer. I think that this is why the affair (and other events) happened in the first place. I've reviewed the facts in my journal and am coming to believe that the affair was designed to drive me away... to make me leave her. Not conciously, no-one can plan that well... but unconciously. Her behaviour hurt me in ways and to a depth that could not have acheived if she'd planned it. It was drawn out and subtley viscious. I was exposed to a level of pain and when I showed I could tolerate it, it was stepped up... not so much the affair itself, though that was a big part of it, but a half dozen other things as well.

Even now, that we're split up, it's still going on. She knows I'm getting to the end of my rope. She knows that my well is running dry. I'll love her forever, but she knows I won't wait forever and instead of getting off the fence, it's almost like she's purposely staying on it.

Considering that our son is starting to figure out what's going on, it's become imperative to resolve this one way or another. We both agreed to this. We came up with a plan for communication. I spoke the first night and she was suppossed to speak the second. Well, I spoke well and clearly and made all my points in a non judgemental, non pressuring way. When it came to her turn, all of a sudden, a friend 'needed' her and she had to go over and talk with her. The next night, she was working and had to prepare for work. (that, of course takes the whole evening) Tonight, she's got things to do till later and well, she's kind of stressed, so she'll call me if she's 'up to it'. It's like we're married all over again. If there's anything she can find to put as a priority before me, it's a sure bet that it will happen. I'm getting kind of sick of it. Well, really sick of it, actually.

You must wait for it to end, that is the part that is hard to grasp in the Harley approach. It is really waiting for the A to end, and in Plan A showing the WS that you can accept them back. You can change. If you have showed and expressed these things, then plan B is where you should be.

If she knows I'm waiting, it will never end. I don't think she's doing it on purpose, as I said, but that has been the pattern and I don't see why it should change now. I thought that the fact that her son's mental health (he's unravelling) has become a crucial point that needs dealing with might make a difference, but apparently even he hasn't got priority status when it comes to this.

Furthermore, when I left, I made it clear that if she wanted me to wait for her while she figures things out, she'd have to give me some indication that she was actually figuring things out. There's been nothing but excuses and dodges. I hate excuses under the best of circumstances... this is more than I can bear. Worse, her excuses are getting lamer and more transparent by the week.

Perhaps I'm taking this a bit personally, but when I look back at the facts in my journal, it's hard not to come to these conclusions.

Plan B would be a heck of a thing to do in front of the boy. Furthermore, it will harden me faster and more fully than anything else I can think of. There is a huge part of me that wants this over... I'm sick of the callous disregard, don't see it ending... have been dealing with it for years and moving on is sooooo very attractive.

Plan B would put so much distance between us, I can't see a reunion as possible. It would not preserve the love I have, it would allow me to stew in my resentment and loneliness and I would become miserable. I've been wrong before, and I may be now, but from what I know of myself, that is what I predict.

I don't want to force a conclusion to this, but it's the only way I can see of avoiding a strong hatred and resentment. I'd rather have the divorce and be allowed to get on with my life and heal than remain in this limbo for even another moment. That's what has got me concerned... that I'm rushing it.

A good part of my conflict is that no matter what, I will never run out of love. I will very quickly run out of desire to maintain a marriage type relationship with her though. I'm largely already there. It's only because of what I've learned at this site that I'm making this last ditch effort. Because I believe that if two people make the decision and the total commitment to making it work, anything is possible.

Again, thanks for your reply. I really need to have this dialogue.

Lordslady

I wish I had your stregnth. (And yes, I have read your posts, and applaud your patience and inner strength. I think you are far more powerful than you realize)

dewt:

Your posts say a lot:

"-I don't want to save this."

I definitely understand this feeling. My W's A lasted so long and she's been so reluctant 2 go NC that I often ask myself whether I want 2 save our M or not. Main thing is NOT 2 view yourself as a failure for having these feelings.

"-I've been hurt beyond even my ability to comprehend."

Yeah, I definitely understand this one!

"-I've been alone now for a while and though I miss her like crazy, I don't relish the thought of going back to that emotional wasteland (not that it's been presented as an option)"

It says a lot that you say you miss her like crazy. It says there's still hope. And it says that, if you really don't want 2 rebuild, then you've got a lot of self-help 2 do in order 2 be able 2 move on happily. I didn't think this would be possible for me for the longest time since D-day (26 months ago), but now I do. I'm not "clingy" with my FWW anymore, and I believe that's helped both of us 2 begin the healing.

"-Starting with someone new, with the wisdom I've gained is very attractive."

But since you still miss your W like crazy, there's more wisdom 2 gain yet.

"-I have sense of duty that would supercede all of the above, and I'm afraid of that, because I want to be happy and I have no reason to believe that I ever could be."

I believe I understand this, 2. It's hard even now for me 2 see an end of this whole, painful process, but intellec2ally, I know that there will be one. If it's duty that keeps you trying, for NOW, then that may be sufficient. Keep looking for those kinds of reasons 2 sustain you, even if it's only for a little while at a time. You'll be amazed at how much inner strength you can still muster. I know I have been with mine.

"-I'm posting this because I need advice and guidance."

This is unders2d, 2.

"-My Bible tells me that adultry is a valid reason for divorce, but Jesus also says to forgive, and to go the extra mile. God has given me great guidance thus far, but has gone silent on this one."

You sound like a thoughtful, though very hurt, person. I don't "do" church anymore, but I think it's safe 2 say that God hasn't gone silent so much as you've forgotten how 2 listen - how 2 identify the signs that may be all around you. I think we get that way because we believe, perhaps pig-headedly, that WE know what the right path for us is, and we try so hard 2 force things. It's only when we let go of the need 2 control the outcome that true enlightenment can come through. Then, the path will simply unfold.

"-I need to approach this with some Grace, but am too confused to be able to see clearly..."

Boy, do I identify! ...as do probably most of the people here. Like I said before, there is most certainly HOPE.

best,
-ol' 2long

dewt:

"I made it clear that if she wanted me to wait for her while she figures things out, she'd have to give me some indication that she was actually figuring things out. "

I wouldn't make such a "deal." When my FWW said that she may be considering moving away for a while 2 "figure out what she wants" and she ASKED me whether I'd wait, I said "no, I'll probably file for DV soon after you leave. I've waited over a year already." And I said it in a matter-of-fact manner. I wasn't mean, just that's where I was at the time. It's been almost a year since that happened. Recently, she's said that she won't go back 2 grad school out of state because she doesn't think our M would survive that. I don't think it would either, but I'd hate for her 2 give up her dream because of that. I'd rather we focus on healing such that she COULD go out of state 2 school if she really wanted 2. It's just that, at this point, the necessary amount of healing hasn't happened yet, and being apart that long would probably not help us.

We celebrated our 28th anniversary last December. I'm no longer clingy enough 2 hang on just 2 make the number bigger, but I can definitely find plenty of reasons not 2 "give up" just yet. And in the process, we do continue 2 make progress. Mostly, I'm learning things about myself that I pompously thought I was learning in about the first year post-D day but really wasn't. Things I wouldn't have guessed a year ago. It's kinda cool.

-ol' 2long

22bbllee ppoosstt!!

<small>[ March 11, 2004, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

Hey, 2long

Thanks so much for writing. Sorry 'bout the delay in my reply... I had a crazily busy weekend (a good one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> and never had a chance to write. I did get a chance to think about some of the things you said though and formulate some replies.

I'm not sure how much I miss her... In many ways I miss her like crazy, in many ways, I've been preparing myself for this for a long time and am almost grateful that it's finally here. That probably doesn't make a lot of sense. As for there still being hope, well, I don't know about that. I'm not completely closed to the idea of working things out, but neither do I want to needlessly submit myself (or her) to another exercise in futility. She'd have to really convince me that she wants things to work and I don't know if that's possible, as I don't know that she really wants things to work.

I figure that there's always more wisdom to gain. That's part of the enjoyment of life... ok, well not always... and missing her doesn't mean that there's anything worth saving. The more I think about it, the closer I get to saying, "well, lets at least try to end things and proceed gracefully." I don't want to spend the rest of my days wanting after someone who doesn't feel the same about me. That's just too bleak.

I'm also beginning to feel that this is less about stregnth and more about just resigning myself to the fact that it is over, and it has been over in her heart for a long time. I could hang on, but hang on for what? Hang on until she decides, "oh well, maybe we should give it one more try..." That is not what I'm looking for, and it's probably the best I could ever get. She still has shown no remorse over what she put me through and that is the hardest thing to swallow. I really think I deserve better than that... She told me I need to learn to love myself, which really upset me, all things considered, but I've been thinking about it, and one of the things I think I deserve is a marriage that is emotionally a two way street.

I feel that the path is unfolding. And the path that is unfolding is not leading back to reconciliation. She is playing a large part in this.

And, over the years, I've developed issues with hope. I've had it only to have it dashed... over and over... in little ways and big ways too, with scarcely an opportunity missed to give me hope and take it right away again. Sick of hope. Rather deal with a harsh reality. Sad, eh?

It wasn't so much of a deal, it's just that knowing myself, I had to inform her of what I'd need to keep the homefires burning for her. The fact that she hasn't missed an opportunity to ignore these needs, or put me off speaks volumes about how she feels about this. Not only that, but the homefires haven't been kept up... My general thinking is no longer about getting her back, but more about getting her settled nearer to her son (an apartment nearby, for example) so that she can be more a part of his daily experience. My visions of the future seem more to do with visitation than reconciliation.

I originally wanted to wait longer, but each day that goes by has me more intent on closing this book. I've spent a lifetime seeking love from those unable, unwilling to give it to me and I'm weary.

And the thing is, though largely I've been writing from a very selfish point of view, I'm aware that this has not been a bed of roses for her. Though she loves me dearly, there is no passion. She's outright said this on numerous occaisions over the years. Not that she needed to say it... I'm not blind nor stupid. Can I hold it against her that she not be satisfied with that? Could I try and bring her back to that after seeing to what levels of despair that could drive her?

Do I need to wait any longer the be told what I already know?

dewt

<small>[ March 14, 2004, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: dewt ]</small>

Geez, I really hate bumpin my own posts...It's too much like begging... I just need to get this out... any other thoughts/insights/perspectives out there?