Anyone gone to someone they respect in the Twin cities area? (Husband won't have anything to do with MB, so the Harleys aren't an option.) Yes, I've gone to IC. Now we need to go together.

NC with OW for approximately 3 weeks ... although I was out of town this weekend and he's distant again. Maybe they got together. Too scared to ask him. Can't bear the pain again.

Don't know if I even want this marriage anymore. Don't think he really loves me. He says he does, but only after I tell him the I love him. Somehow it makes it less believable to me. I know he desperately loves her ... would marry her in an instant if we didn't have children. He wants to be a father to her little girl.

The ball has been in his court to get a MC for about 2 months now. He's done nothing about it.

This weekend Les and Leslie Parrott are coming to our area for a "Soulmates" seminar. He won't go, but I've called to find out if it would be beneficial if just one in the marriage attends. Know I'll look stupid, but I don't give a rip!

Boy, this has turned into a different post than I thought it would.

I've been thinking a lot about having an affair myself to find out what those "new" feelings would be like. Yeah, yeah, yeah ... I know that would be the wrong thing to do. It's been on my mind a lot lately, though. Can't talk to my friends anymore about this stuff. I've burdened them enough already. Can't talk to my H about this for obvious reasons.

Feeling lost, scared, alone, abandoned, worthless, unloved, ready to give up.

Yuck!!!

Dear, we all understand your feelings. Becasue we are all here for the same reason. You can find some many people to talk to by just coming here, to vent, to get help,etc. Don't give up. Your H maybe in withdraw. Get the book, Surviving an Affair. More valuable advie will pour in.

What probably brought on all these negative feelings is driving by the hotel where they first did the dirty deed on my way to and from the airport. It ABSOLUTELY CAN'T STAND TO THINK ABOUT THAT.

She told him in her email it was so wonderful when he opened the door and took her in his arms and kissed her so passionately.

Makes me literally sick to think about it. And the fact that they were at that nice hotel when I was home with out children and her H was home with their daughter.

Now every time I have to go to the airport or the mall I have to pass it. My palms get sweaty, my heart races, I feel nauseous. I've been dreaming about it for the last several nights. I want her out of my dreams and out of my life!

lostnhurt, I've read SAA and many, MANY other books. They did help me and this site has been helpful, too. I just want it over.

I honestly don't know that I want him anymore. He doesn't seem to really want me. It may be time to give up. There is probably someone better out there for me that is my "soulmate" like she is his.

Anyone gone to someone they respect in the Twin cities area? (Husband won't have anything to do with MB, so the Harleys aren't an option.)
Why do you think he will go to ANYONE?

This weekend Les and Leslie Parrott are coming to our area for a "Soulmates" seminar. He won't go,
As I said, why do you think he will go to any counselor?

Yes, I've gone to IC.
Was this an individual counselor to help you deal with this stuff or was this an individual counselor to help you save your marriage?

Now we need to go together.
So call one of the Harleys. They can tell you how to approach getting your husband to go.

He SAID he would go to MC with me, finally, so I guess I trusted him. Looks like he's not going to do it, though. You're probably right, Chris.

The IC was to help me deal with stuff. I had one last meeting in February. Don't feel that it was helping as much as MC would.

I'll give more thought to calling the Harleys on my own.

We went to two MCs in Twin Cities, both of them excellent. I also had one-time appointments with two other therapists and spoke with perhaps 20 on the phone. We spent about $6,000 out-of-pocket. We were going nowhere -- Harley was a "clown" with ideas that were "ridiculous" and "extreme" and it was from calling his radio show that I was told to call the woman's husband and that's how the affair came to light.

In December, I sat down my H, said I was ending MC with 2nd MC because she was recommending I separate because "the concept of care doesn't make sense to him", and said we can go through MB or not -- your choice. He decided to do so.

The thing about this MB program -- which is very touch and go for us -- is that there is an overall plan and you see it up front. For a while there in the fall, we were spending $260/week in counseling, $60 for childcare, $100/week for personal counseling for me, and $100/week for marriage counseling -- with no end in sight and no sense of progress. I was ready to be done, and I think my WH could see that.

Half-measures don't work when dealing with the after-effects of an A. My H's view was "I did terrible things, and it's all up to you to forgive me." Well, I went down that road in forgiving him for physical abuse. I wasn't going down the same road in forgiving him for an affair. HE had to change, and HE had to decide to be serious about a program of recovery.

<small>[ March 09, 2004, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: Cherished ]</small>

Your post is a bit confusing.
Are you recommmending Harley or not? Sounds like you are.

We went to two MCs in Twin Cities, both of them excellent. We spent about $6,000. I knew we were going nowhere
Are you saying they were "excellent" by reputation but in reality were not?

Harley was a "clown" with ideas that were "ridiculous" and "extreme"
And this opinion was theirs?

The thing about this program -- which is very touch and go for us -- is that there is an overall plan and you see it up front.
Are you referring to the MB plan?
Yes, it is all up front.

For a while there in the fall, we were spending $260/week in counseling, $60 for childcare, $100/week for personal counseling for me, and $100/week for marriage counseling -- with no end in sight and no sense of progress.
This is for the non-Harley/MB counseling, correct?

Most counselors will simply sit their and tell you what you want to hear. They will not tell you what you need to do to fix things. Because after all, if you are feeling it, then it must be "okay" to follow through with it.

The idea is to set a goal and then do what you have to, to achieve that goal.

Sometimes you don't feel like going to work, but your goal is to retire. Ain't gonna happen if you follow your feelings, so you go to work.
Same with marriage.

The MB counseling is not something you have to do twice a week for a year. You do it when you need to because you develop a plan very early and then go according to the plan.
There is no need to spend $$ to have someone ask you how you feel about whatever.

I'm sorry to sound so confusing. I don't know that I should have replied.

I thought both MCs were excellent. My H had very low regard for Harley. The MB program appeals to me because there is an overall plan, and you see it up front. With the other two MCs, there was a plan but nothing so structured as four parts to each of 24 lessons. I guess what I was doing was saying that the MB program seems to be our best hope.

My H now thinks Harley has a good approach, although it is very painful for us to be addressing the issues that have been in our relationship since the beginning.

cherished, thanks for the information ... btw, I understood what you were trying to say. Sometimes I think these men are just a step behind the way we talk <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

My H is like your H. Who knows ... maybe he'll come around, too.

I pretty much know what I should be doing from all the information I've read in books and this site, but ... gosh darn it ... it's hard to keep that face on all the time! Sometimes I just want to LB and LB big-time!!

I was the master of LBing all the time -- even got a harassment order from OW! In the end, I think there was a dissillusionment by both of us -- I was under the illusion that nothing in us could interfere with marriage vows, so it was all Sophia's fault, and he was under the illusion that he was strong enough to play with fire and that I was to blame for his choices.

Good luck! With 20-20 hindsight, I wish I'd told him that he had to leave until and unless he was willing to go through MarriageBuilders. This was not a mistake that, once made, must be forgiven by me because of my Christian faith; it brought out the problems in our marriage that required a major permanent change.

Sometimes I think these men are just a step behind the way we talk
Very much so! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Something to keep in mind when dealing with your spouse.

No codes or hints or being subtle about anything.
Say it plain and simple. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

it brought out the problems in our marriage that required a major permanent change.
Very much so. Many people seem to think that getting over the affair is all that needs to be done. Hah! Far from it.

Gotta look at the marriage BEFORE the affair.

Chris, you always find a way to say things so perfectly. Just hinting around isn't good enough. But once I spell out exactly how I'm feeling or what I'm thinking, my H has always known that was what was up. I'm like an open book.

Something that I've been thinking about. Before I met my H, everyone broke up with me ... except one very hairy man that I couldn't look at once I saw his Robin Williams arms, but that's another story, I guess <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> . I was never the "dumper"; always the "dumpee". I'm always the friend, never the best friend. I always feel like second fiddle. This has put the icing on the cake. My H is here with me, yes, but his heart isn't here. It's with her. I'm second fiddle in my own marriage. Someone is talking about this right now on the In Recovery forum. And it just sucks!

God, I don't know why I am so down and negative today. Help!