Just spoke to Steve who gave us some work to do.
After the hour, W again seem somewhat agitated. He is handling her with absolute kit gloves and in my opinion she is barely hanging on. She clearly resents being in this position but does not question his ability for a second. It just again confirms my problems are much more significant than I realized. Just a microcosm of my situation; yesterday coming home from work W greeted me with a kiss. This is somewhat unusual and always raises my antenna. Sure enough I checked her cell phone and she had a 7 call with OM. To most this may seem small issue but she is as likely to walk away from an 18year M as she is to give up this "friendship". Can't imagine the morning she will wake up and realize she gave up so much for so little if our ending is not positive. If I didn't get positive feedback in other areas of my life she would have me convinced that I don't deserve anyone and that she does me a favor staying with me. But I can tell all the newbies that it doesn't fix itself and your patience is limited. Do something before you run out of resolve because your love may eventually fade. Don't mean to be negative but just don't underestimate your problem.

WOE

walkingoneggs, great name. I agree that your patience runs out. Haven't been on this board much at all lately, but it saved me during last fall.

Keep your chin up. These affairs stink, don't they!!

Hi WOE,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If I didn't get positive feedback in other areas of my life she would have me convinced that I don't deserve anyone and that she does me a favor staying with me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please dont let one messed up, insecure, fog-enshrouded WS convince you that you are less of a man than you ever were. You are you, and you were worthy of HER at one point... She cant take that from you.

Stand strong and let her crumble. This isnt about you, and as hard as it seems, you cant take it so personally. They all say on MB NOT to listen to what these fog heads say! If she fell off the face of the earth tomorrow you would be valuable. You know it. Please hang in there - Dru

Stung, I suppose I could try harder to dismiss this as a one time mistake (ONS) followed by a friendship that makes me a little uneasy. I think that was my reaction after I was able to get the visuals out of my head and start sleeping and eating again. But then as time went on I realized W's love for me isn't coming back. She calls me her best friend and we have a lot of good times together especially when the kids are involved. And I never considered W my friend. But rather my W and if M ended so would our supposed friendship. So it has taken me way too long to get right with myself in that this is UNACCEPTABLE. I don't know how it will end but I'm doing my best now so if my children ever ask me why, I can tell them "it wasn't because your father didn't try". I just read something from Love Must Be Tough that explained that love is based on respect first. I really have to wonder how much respect can my W have for me if she is more than satisfied to have me play the fool to keep the peace between her and lover. I think the Harley's have coined the phrase "do you want to be right or do you want to be married". At this point I really wonder how determined I am to stay married.

Dru, I just read your message. Thank you very much and I know you are right. It is just so hard. She is desperately trying to manipulate the situation for me to "just play ball". But tonight is her weekly night out with OM (pool league) and I'm sure these calls with Harley make her feel more guilty because they are the same day as her "fun" night out. I went to a MC (by myself for about 8 visits) and he suggested I might be co-dependent. I might have been, but I'm not anymore and I know this scares my W. She recently suggested that we purchase a car of her first OM for my S. Without hesitation I responded "no f'n way". That was the end of the discussion and clearly I got my point across. There have basically been 3 consecutive EA's over the last 5 years. It's wierd how I didn't notice this at first. But looking back I say to myself that's why she dishes out all this constant criticism. Of course some of it may have some merit but after a while it just sounds like "you suck, you suck, you suck" and I just don't hear it anymore. Anyway thanks for the pat on the back. I'm doin fine.

HI WOE,

I'm reading this great book, Passionate Marriage, and at this point the theme seems to be that two weak people will have a weak marriage. And when the first partner starts to stand strong, 'gets ahold of themselves', it makes the other MUCH less stable (the 2nd was comfortable with the 1st weaknesses!).

The first must continue to stand strong while the 2nd stabilized themselves. But the 2nd must do it themself, and it takes the 1st letting the other FALL for them to see just how 'OFF' they are. I hope that makes sense. I really does to me. (this book is not an easy read, but I really like it, I'm only half way through).

You sound like you ARE doing fine! Sometimes you just have to be reminded of the good stuff! Hang tuff! - Dru

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It's wierd how I didn't notice this at first. But looking back I say to myself that's why she dishes out all this constant criticism. Of course some of it may have some merit but after a while it just sounds like "you suck, you suck, you suck" and I just don't hear it anymore. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You hear criticism all the time and you start to believe it. I used to just want my H to be happy, so I let him have his way ... did things the way he wanted them done. And then he goes and finds a woman who is exactly the opposite of that. What's that all about?!

We just need to be strong people and live for ourselves! I'm deep in a rut right now, so don't know that I can really follow that, but I do know that it is the truth.

Stung, hang in there and keep doing the right thing. You know how they say the best revenge is too live excellently? I think that is very true. Just try to get out of bed everyday and do the very best you can. Everybody's best is different. When I really want to let me W know how bad she hurts me I tell her "you have taught me that my best isn't good enough". It's still my best and that's all that matters. She would have to be ice for that not to hit home. Finally begin with the end in mind. This is going to end and you're husband is going to remember how much grace and class you carried during these amazingly difficult times.

Dru, thanks. The book makes sense. I can relate it to the movie "Days of Wine and Roses".
Lee Remick and Jack Lemmon are married alcoholics. When Lemmon quits drinking and Remick doesn't the marriage ends. It becomes such an unhealthy relationship that he has to save himself. That's not the ending we're hoping for but at some point you have to say "stop the madness". I am hanging very tuff.
What I really need to work on is vulnerability. I need to able to let my W know that I forgive her and I understand that this could just as easily be me begging her forgiveness. But she's so fogged in right now it doesn't much matter what I say. I hate to say this but I need a real life issue to intrude on the fantasy. I may Something big to happen and hopefully a positive event. Patience is a virtue, right? I may check out the book. Tonights Pool Night so I'll have some time to read. I guess you can imagine what that's like for me. Knowing she's out at a bar having a great time with OM while I'm the bore in her life at home. And lately a more annoying bore.