Oh.
I didn't know a person could tell there was no other message by just reading the subject line.

I know about attachments.
And I had never heard that if we delete a message, the person that sent it, gets it back as unread.

I really don't think it works that way, does it?
Maybe we can do a little experiment with a friend sending us an e-mail and see if it works that way?

Sincerely, Sarah

<small>[ March 12, 2004, 09:47 AM: Message edited by: Sarie ]</small>

Getting a response that the message was deleted before being opened is an option on many email programs. Just as you can ask to be informed when the message you have sent to someone is opened and read.

Or it could be an internal email system they have at her institution. She cannot filter her email, either.

And Yahoo mail shows if there is an attachment in the subject line.

SS

Suzet-

Looks like you handled this most recent email about as well as could be expected. Sorry if I missed it, but you did let your H know about the most recent emails? To me, he definitely needs to be in the loop with regards to the OM and all contact, whether you respond or not.

Getting the support you need in the short term is much more important than any concerns about keeping the A a secret IMO. True friends will be there for you regardless so don't be afraid to ask for help when you need it. I know it must be very difficult for you but just keep in mind how far you've come. It just seems that it would be a real shame to fall back into inappropriate contact with this clown because you're trying to keep things quiet. Good luck to you, you're doing well.....

Hi Suzet...I hope that OM doesn't send you and e-mail for your birthday. You don't need that now and he should respect you enough to just leave you alone. I'm sorry but I don't get this attitude that some think that you can re-establish a friendship after an A. It doesn't work!!!! I wouldn't trust his intentions at all <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> . You have made such wonderful progress and I don't want to see this man mess that up. Perhaps you and your friend can find another place to park. That has got to make you anxious every morning and every afternoon. I haven't talked to you in a while but am so glad that things seem to be go well <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Spider Slayer &#8211;
I didn&#8217;t felt to &#8220;argue&#8221; with Sarie about the e-mail issue on Friday. I felt somewhat upset and disappointed about her initiations, so I just want to thank you for your support and the time you&#8217;ve taken to correct her on the e-mail issue. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Litchfield &#8211;
Yes, I informed my H about everything and I did so with the recent e-mails as well. When I accidentally see or bump into OM at work (luckily it don&#8217;t happen very often) I also inform my H about it. I struggle with anxiety issues when I have the slightest accidental contact with OM and talking to my H about these uncomfortable feelings helps a lot and contributes to total openness and honesty in my M. I&#8217;m lucky to have a very understanding H and he is very supportive when I share these things with him.

Litchfield, I just want to reassure you that although I still have some residual feelings towards OM (which is very frustrating and something I can&#8217;t understand &#8211; I can&#8217;t even understand it myself!), I don&#8217;t have ANY desire to fall back into any kind of contact with OM whatsoever. I know this must sound very contradicting for any BS but it&#8217;s really how it is! The residual feelings I still have, have NOTHING, but NOTHING to do with the love and appreciation I feel for my dear H. I know that even &#8220;appropriate&#8221; contact with OM will be inappropriate since I&#8217;ve made a commitment to myself and my H to not have any contact with OM again. My self respect, H and M is too important to violate my H&#8217;s trust ever again.

I know it might sound if I want to keep things &#8220;quite&#8221;, but the reason I don&#8217;t want OM to know I have discussed our previous involvement with my GF (and some other trusted people) is that it might indicate to OM that his actions do have an impact on me. The knowledge that attempts from him to contact me makes me upset, anxious and uncomfortable might give him the idea that he still has &#8220;power&#8221; over my feelings. I don&#8217;t think this will be a good thing. What do you think?

Lisa &#8211;
I agree that a friendship can&#8217;t be re-established after an A&#8230; After our friendship developed to IR and my H discovered one of OM&#8217;s e-mails, I tried to keep the friendship appropriate and on &#8216;platonic&#8217; level for a few months. OM wasn&#8217;t willing to respect my conditions and started to step over the boundaries again with his subtle e-mail flirting and continuous request to visit his office for a &#8216;chat&#8217;. He did this AFTER I told him that I can&#8217;t visit his office and have regular chats with him on e-mail anymore etc. One day, he e-mail and asked me again to visit him, it was the &#8216;last&#8217; straw&#8217; and I told him straight he must respect my request and not ask me to visit him again. After this he just send an e-mail that said: &#8221;FORGET ABOUT ME. This was a nice game, but it&#8217;s over. Have a &#8216;nice&#8217; life!&#8221; This is how the friendship ended. His e-mail was a big shock and disappointment to me &#8211; I was very disgusted that he called it a GAME. Never in my whole life had I felt SO angry and humiliated. Well, OM never apologized or has shown any remorse or repentance towards me for his behaviour. Many months after this OM tried to re-initiate contact again and this was when I&#8217;ve send him the NC-letter&#8230; I still I don&#8217;t trust OM&#8217;s intentions at all... What makes me the most angry is that he tried to cover up his own [censored] and terrible behavior of the past with &#8216;sweet words&#8217; and with so-called &#8216;appreciation for my friendship&#8217; under the guise that &#8216;God send me on his path&#8217; in his e-mail a while back. He made it sound if he never did anything wrong. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I just don&#8217;t understand how I can still have residual feelings and a &#8220;weakness&#8221; towards a person that has proved himself to be weak, disrespectful, untrustworthy etc. in so many ways and which I KNOW I don't want to have anything to do with for the rest of my life. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ March 15, 2004, 07:03 AM: Message edited by: Suzet ]</small>

I CAN NOT UNDERSTAND WHY WE ARE SPENDING SO MUCH TIME ON THIS POST! It seems to me you should be on the OW board. I am sorry, but enough is enough! You are married. Sure you made a mistake, and this is the consiquenses of your actions. This is so unfair to both you and your husband. In one instance you saying you love your husband and you want your marriage and then your saying you cant help feel something for this other man. I dont understand your issues. It seems very simple to me.... just focus on your husband. This thread should not be a long drawn out issue. The more this thread/topic goes on, your taking this time to talk and think about this other man. Leave it alone. It is almost like you want others to engage in this conversation about other man to keep it fresh in your head. Consentrate on your marriage and leave all this other nonsense to God. You will heal much faster and better.

Suzet -

You are welcome reagarding the Sarie incident. I probably just wasted my typing fingers, but I just couldn't let it go!

Anyway, I don't think your thread is wasted at all. If your thread bothers anyone, they have the option - just like the rest of us - to not read it and not post to it.

Everyone has a right to work through their feelings. As a BS, I could tell other BS's, "Why post your feelings? They are the same as all the other BS's feelings. Read one post, read them all. Just follow your plan and move on with your life. Geez!"

BUT, each individual has needs, and this is a place for those needs to be met. Please do not feel that all of us think the same way.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, including you. I love reading your posts. You are courageous, honest, and trying to do the very best you can for the people you have hurt.

I wish my WH was doing the exact same thing you are right now.

Lots of love and support and HUGS!

SS

Betrayed Spouse,

If my post upsets you, then please don&#8217;t read it! It&#8217;s not YOU who spend time on this thread, it&#8217;s the other people on this board who care and try to help and support. I see you&#8217;re a new poster, so obviously you don&#8217;t understand the purpose of these boards. This forum is for ALL people and for many FW&#8217;s this is the only safe place to vent. You are a BS and I understand your anger towards me, but your post was not helpful to me in any way.

Thank you,
Suzet

We posted at almost the same time! And said almost the same thing!

Great minds . . . and all that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

SS

(((Spider Slayer)))

Thank you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I also want to say I really appreciate your willingness and patience to listen to all these &#8216;garbage&#8217; and &#8216;venting&#8217; of a WS... You&#8217;re a BS too and it can&#8217;t always be easy. A WS suffer because of their own wrong choices but a BS is a victim of the WS wrong choices and therefore I really appreciate the strength and courage of the BS&#8217;s on these boards. I understand Betrayed Spouse2002 is a new member, so it&#8217;s understandable that my post (and other posts of FWS's) will be upsetting to new BS's who posting on these boards.

Love and HUGS to you as well, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Suzet

<small>[ March 15, 2004, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: Suzet ]</small>

Excuse me; but I have been lurking and going through what most of us betrayed spouses go through. However, I have only responded to two post here and yours was one I couldnt just read and not say anything. I dont understand what it is your really looking to get help with. I am familar with what you have posted in the past and it all comes back to the original question. Your not moving ahead. Why not just change your email account or better yet; not accept emails coming from the OTHER WOMANS MAN? It seems to me that you thrive from having known that he still thinks of you. Not only that; but you play on "our" sympathy and understanding like we are crazy. This makes no sense to me. You realized you made a mistake; you have decided to NOW be faithful to your husband, you have NOW decided he is the most important person to you, so WHY not enjoy him body, mind and soul?

I also wanted to add, I have been here for over a year now so I am familar with the MB plan(s). I am not a WS basher; however, what I dont understand is: you know what you need to do, so WHY NOT DO IT? Your affair doesnt seem like just a one night mistake. Do we consider a ongoing affair as a mistake? I DONT THINK SO! SORRY, no sympathy from me. Good Luck Though.

Suzet-

Sorry, but I didn't mean to insinuate your intentions weren't good. To the contrary, it's quite obvious from your posts that you're working hard to do the right thing here and further, it sounds like progress is being made....good for you!

The only reason I asked about telling your H is because I've read of how addicting and intense the feelings you're experiencing can be. For that reason, it's imperative to get the proper amount of support regardless of the fallout.

IMO, you shouldn't worry so much about what the OM thinks or does. The affair was a result of something that was broken in the marriage and you and your H are working on fixing it. The OM is insignificant at this point so try to get him out of the loop as much as possible.

I know it's not a simple matter to change jobs but this contact makes things harder on you and you're better off in the long run somewhere else, as I'm sure you well know. In fact, I tend to agree with Harley that it's a absolute necessity. In other words, I think you should take another job ASAP if at possible. Good luck to you, you're doing well!

Betrayed spouse,

Excuse me; but I have been lurking and going through what most of us betrayed spouses go through.
Well, from your reaction of yesterday I couldn’t tell that you’re further in recovery already – you sounded exactly like someone who has just discovered betrayal and feel very angry and bitter towards all other FWS’s.

However, I have only responded to two post here and yours was one I couldnt just read and not say anything.
I have read your other posts as well and I have noticed an angry tone in all your posts. The only reason you have posted to me was to get rid of your anger.

I dont understand what it is your really looking to get help with.
I’m looking for a safe place to vent and to get rid of my feelings and concerns when I really need it (even if no one responds). And you know what, it helps! Further I appreciate empathy (not sympathy!), support and suggestions from anyone who understands and care and want to help me in a constructive (not criticizing) way.

I am familiar with what you have posted in the past and it all comes back to the original question.
NO, you’re not familiar with what I have posted in the past AT ALL. You’ll understand why I’m saying this further in this post.

Your not moving ahead.
The other posters (also BS’s) who have responded to my thread think I’m doing well and making progress…

Why not just change your email account or better yet; not accept emails coming from the OTHER WOMANS MAN?
From your questions it is crystal clear that you HAVEN’T follow my previous threads… If you HAVE followed it you would be familiar with the following:
1) I only have an e-mail account at work that can’t be changed. OM working at the same company and the internal e-mail system (peer to peer system) of the institution doesn’t allow staff to block incoming e-mails.
2) I haven’t accepted the last e-mail I received from OM – I have DELETED it immediately.

It seems to me that you thrive from having known that he still thinks of you.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Not only that; but you play on "our" sympathy and understanding like we are crazy.
This is only YOUR perception. As I’ve said yesterday, don’t read my posts if it upsets you. I express my feelings honestly and openly, so please DON’T read it if you can’t handle it.

This makes no sense to me.
It’s obvious that nothing about me or my sitaution make sense to you. Please don’t throw around critisizing remarks if you don’t understand at all… <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

You realized you made a mistake; you have decided to NOW be faithful to your husband, you have NOW decided he is the most important person to you, so WHY not enjoy him body, mind and soul?
I do enjoy him…I love my H with my whole body, mind and soul. This is why I want to protect my H against my own weaknesses and vulnerabilities. This is why I feel so upset about these residual feelings I still have and anxious about OM’s attempts to contact me. Can’t you understand??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I also wanted to add, I have been here for over a year now so I am familiar with the MB plan(s).
Well, that's good… <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I am not a WS basher;
Really??? Well, you sounded like one! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

you know what you need to do, so WHY NOT DO IT?
As far as I know I’m following all the BM principles: I keep NC with OM. I’m trying my uttermost best to do the right things. I’m honest and open with my H, I love him and wants to protect him…

Your affair doesnt seem like just a one night mistake.
Again, it’s clear that you haven’t read my previous posts. A one night mistake is PHSYICAL and includes SEX. I was involved in an e-mail friendship that became inappropriate and beginning of EA.

Do we consider an ongoing affair as a mistake? I DONT THINK SO!
I agree with you but I don’t understand why you’re saying this to me. This is not relevant to my situation at all - I’m not currently involved in an ongoing affair.

SORRY, no sympathy from me.
And I don’t need sympathy from a person with your attitude. Thank you very much.

Good Luck Though.
Why are you saying this. You don’t mean it anyway. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<small>[ March 16, 2004, 04:41 AM: Message edited by: Suzet ]</small>

Suzet -

You go girl!

I can't help but wonder if Betrayed Spouse is getting you confused with Sarie or Finally Learning or Stupid Girl.

Several of his comments indicate he was thinking of someone not in your sitch (with "just" the IR with OM, no PA).

Hang tough. I would defend you, but you have done a great job for yourself.

Again, I wish my WH was dedicated to me right now like you are to your H.

None of us are perfect, we all face our own demons, in our own way.

Do not feel ashamed of your struggle. Everyone falls down - it is the strength of character you show while picking yourself up that is telling of what you are made of.

And, from what I can tell, you are made of all the right stuff, sister!

HUGS! SS

Just a little background for you. I found out that my husband had an affair via email while he was serving in Irac last year April 6th. He had the affair 2 years ago with a home wrecker who was also married. (pyhsical) Immediately upon discovery; my husband asked for forgiveness and immediately ended all contact. So I had not had to deal with a person who was still thinking about the homewrecker, or thinking about whether she would make contact.

He immediately realized his "bad choices" and decided to work on our marriage. I DO NOT consider any type of affair a MISTAKE. A mistake is like putting on 2 different socks and not realizing it. I am very upset that most WW/WM decides after the affair that they still long for the other person. Why? You explained that you can not change your email account? How would it look to your boss if he or she found out that you had an affair with a co-worker?

You knew then that what you were doing was wrong. Right? But you continued to do it anyway. Right?
I dont have a problem with WW I DO have a problem with WW who continue to play a role in the affair, by playing stupid. I am not calling you stupid. I do think you are taking too much energy in thinking about what HE is going to do next. Why not get another job? Not easy? Well was it easy to engage in a affair? Im sure it wasn't, but you did it anyway. Right?

I am just puzzled why you dont just tell this other person that every emailed sent to you will be sent to his supervisor? That will cut all contact. Right? But your still thinking about him in a passionate way. This is crazy! You better thank your lucky stars your husband appears to be understanding, cause not too many betrayed spouses would stick around for someone, to continue to think of the other man. I hope your in counsiling, because your going to need it. This problems seems to thrive from YOU!
Good Luck...you will need it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Betrayed Spouse -

I think that if Suzet's posts and her thread bother you so much, your energy should be spent elsewhere.

You are not being helpful at all. Admittedly, some posters need a 2X4 smack upside the head every once in a while, but I have not seen that with Suzet.

People cannot help their feelings. If your FWH says he never once had residual feelings for someone he had an inappropriate R with, I do not think you two are engaging in Radical Honesty.

Denial is a powerful thing, my friend. And with your narrow-mindedness and apparent anger, I bet your FWH wouldn't feel comfortable telling you anything with regard to his true feelings. He probably just tells you what you want to hear, which is what you are trying to get Suzet to do.

And all I can say to that is, perhaps your mindset is something that contibuted to the A in the first place. I hope you are taking actions to ensure your history does not repeat itself.

I say good luck to you, as I think YOU are going to need it.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> SS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ March 16, 2004, 09:36 AM: Message edited by: Spider Slayer ]</small>

Hello Spider Slayer! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />


I just have one question for you.

What faults did you display, which was your husbands reason for having his affair?

My husband had an affair because of his own silly insecure, selfish reasons. He was away from me, TDY with the US Air Force and she came on to him strong. Personally, I was in another country. I know she came on to him because of the emails I found. The affair went on for 1 week. Radical Honesty, has always played a good part in this marriage. Yes, he lied about not telling me about the affair. But I had emails to read, that explained his feelings afterwards.

I hope you really dont believe that a man or woman have affairs because their spouses chose to go outside the marriage. Is it possible that they just want something NEW OR EXCITING? I have NO anger what-so-ever! I just dont understand, if we say we love our spouses, and we want our marriages to work, then why not just leave the affairs behind? I understand that sometimes our minds get the better of us. But that is when we pray and DO something about it. Whether that means moving away or leaving the job....

The question above, is not a question I expect to answer, just a little something to think about.

As for the orriginal poster, I do wish her all the luck in the world. She made her bed, and now she doesnt want to lay in it. As a woman, I just dont understand how any woman could sleep with other men while married. Now EA are completely different. I understand that they do happen. Especially, some one who see everyday. However, it takes away from the family and the only ones that matter. Why not just change the situation. If you did not have a PA with this man, then I misread. I apologize! I do understand better how EA can happen. Good Luck, whether you believe me or not. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Dr. Harley says in all of his literature that A's rarely happen in healthy, happy, strong marriages. They happen because EN's are not being met.

That is the responsibility I am speaking of. If you ask the vets on this board, they have all come to realize the things they were or were not doing that made the M vulnerable to an A.

The A is NOT the BS's fault. However, their actions or inactions, knowingly or unknowingly, contributed to making the M vulnerable.

Suzet has made her bed, and she is laying in it. She has Radical Honesty with her H. She is repentant. She is doing all the right things. Time is what will heal her. Something you are unwilling to give her, apparently.

And it is fine that you don't understand her feelings. Nobody here asked you to. We just asked that if you don't have anything constructive to say, don't post here.

That is all we have asked. It's not Rocket Surgery!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> SS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

As I said before, I did not expect you to answer that question!

However, because the Harley's says that, are we suppose to believe that every case is text book?

Could one not have just everything he wanted at home, and then wanted to be selfish too? I don't buy the there is something (BS) are doing wrong. If your saying that every case is text book, then you are probably not doing so well in your recovery. Have a Nice Day Spider <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />