You sure are bossy! Geez!!!

You know what they say, don't dish it out if you can't take it!

You cannot tell me whether to reply or not, but if you are just one of those people who has to have the last word . . .

Well, we'll just have to see which of us is more tenatious.

And you only seem to read what you want to read, or you just skim or something.

I said MOST A's don't happen in strong, healthy marriages.

And this website is full of Harley principles, since it's his site, and all.

If you don't like his concepts being presented to you, TOUGH!

And to be honest some more, and man he has become scares me. He is irrational, angry, selfish, and not pleasant to be around.


Again, what did you do to cause this behavior?

While your an expert, I would wonder why your husband still with the OW?

What are you not doing, Mrs Spider?

I've been through some very tough moments since you decided to leave.

Maybe if you concentrate on what you are doing WRONG rather than coming to others post trying to analize what they are saying you; you might just have your husband back.

As a military wife you should know we are not always where the hubby is, so it opens the door for one to be selfish and not something that the BS is doing. Hope this helps you better understand the words that came out of your mouth. I am done talking to you. I have my husband here with me; Do you? Cheerios!

For betrayed spouse.

Please excuse her. She is new here. She sounds to me to be in total denial about affairs and the who, what, why about them. She wants to chalk her H's affair to the OW fault, and basically he was preyed on and he wanted something different and exciting, he JUST wanted to get laid. He was in another part of the world. All excuses, excuses, excuses. Please forgive her anger. She is misdirecting it.

To betrayed spouse

Think what you want. Stay here and say what you want. Vent when you want. But wake up. Look in the mirror and step back and examine the affair, and see there are many parts, people and reasons that all played part in the infidelity. And don't forget to look at yourself! Is everyone who is away from home having sex outside their marriage?
You can justify it anyway you want. Give him a free pass because you found the answer why it happened. Do whatever makes you feel good and works for you. And don't get mad at us if we don't feel the same.

PS - I hate Cherrios!

Mr. Betrayedhusband, ooops, I meant to say WAYWARD HUSBAND.. Whatever you choose to call your self. Did we have revenge sex cause of our lil ego was busted? Did she seek out other men cause you were not provided what she needed so she went to some one else to get LONG D*** Dong?
Clean you own closet before you decide to open mine.

Learn how to be a man, first, then speak to me.
Obviously, you did not read my post. I said, Yes, she came on to him. But he had the choice to do the right thing. He chose not too. He was thousands of miles away from me, when a attractive woman approached him. He fell weak! By No means am I excusing his behavior.

But lets speak about morals... Where were yours when you were trying to prove your man hood was still worthy? This is almost comical. The only point I was initially trying to make is that, why is it so hard to let go of some one who is going to destroy their families? So you answer those questions.. Mr. Wayward Husband! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

To Suzet, SS, and all who continue to follow and reply to the original post by Suzet. If Betrayedspouse's reply to my thread bothers you, don't let it. She's trying to get a rise out of all of us. Follow her tone throughout the previous posts. Consider the source. Thanks for all of support and good advice.

Amen, Betrayed Husband. FYI, my WH is no longer with OW. We are working on our issues.

I feel sorry for your H, Betrayed Spouse.

You better be careful who you pop-off to on these boards.

You try this crap with some of the vets, and you are going to get blown out of the water.

You are spiteful, mean, arrogant, ignorant, and way too righteous.

Only people with huge chips on their shoulders act the way you do - childish.

If you keep up this pattern of behavior, I think you will find yourself in the same position again.

My WH was in the Army. He was deployed for long periods of time, and didn't cheat on me.

You have tried to put A behavior in a little tidy box, and it just doesn't fit.

We actually just feel pity for your narrow-mindedness. You are obviously too immature to even have an intelligent argument. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Too bad. It could have been good! Hee hee hee!!!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> SS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You should not throw stones from your glass house, lady.

You are spiteful, mean, arrogant, ignorant, and way too righteous.

Thanks, for the kind words! But let me just let you know, these are behaviors that a Wayward Spouse display. Oh, let me just include stupid and selfish to that fine list of yours.

You say your husband has been deployed and he never cheated on you? Well that should make you feel a lot more like an [censored], cause while he was serving his country you were out having an affair!

I am so done trying to rationalize with people who find it okay to cheat on their spouses.

betrayed spouse,

I think you need to do some more reading of Harley's works, and if you don't find they suit you then go some where you do agree with their approach to marriage building.

First, there is a reason that Harley espouses NO CONTACT ever again between WS and OP. It is because the feelings do linger, there is something there that can be reignited. Further, if you read about withdrawal you will see that Suzet is at the very end of this phenomena. But, the experience with OM will always be with her in some form or another. And that is the key to this post.

She is NOT going to get amnesia, so she has to figure out how to properly place the memory of OM in her life and that is a place that illicits NO emotional response, that takes time, and is done better IF two things occur: 1. She maintains no contact, which is difficult if OM will NOT leave her alone, and she works in the same company. and 2. If she talks about it and gets the proper perspective on her feelings.

She is attempting to do these two things and she is doing item #2 in this thread.

You seem to think that affairs just magically happen and just as magically disappear. It does NOT work this way.

So please before you start blasting people perhaps you should better understand the dynamics of these things and even the dynamics of marriage. It sounds to me as if YOU have not handled your H's affair very well as you seem to have a lot of anger and very little empathy as to how it could happen.

I will leave you with this quote that I think you should really consider, because it is the reason Harley pushes radical honesty and the POJA.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please think about this. If you would like to talk about your situation or have questions I strongly urger to post and ask. People here will do their best to help you.

God Bless,

JL

Betrayed Spouse2002,

I can only say I feel very, very sorry for you…and I also feel very sorry for your H. It must be very difficult for him to live with such an arrogant, narrow-minded, attacking and angry person like you. Geez!!! I just thank God my H is not like you… It’s a shame that you’ve also attacked some other good members on this board (especially Spider Slayer). You really have big problems with yourself and you don’t see it and you don’t want to realize it! I have my own mistakes and problems, I know, but at least I recognizing it and working on myself.

Here is a poem I have send a few months ago and this is how I view myself and my Christianity after the mistakes I’ve made – this poem have deep personal meaning to me and keeps me humble. I hope you will also find some meaning from it:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WHEN I SAY I’M A CHRISTIAN

When I say, "I am a Christian,
"I'm not shouting "I am saved
"I'm whispering, "I get lost."
That is why I chose this way.

When I say, "I am a Christian,"
I don't speak of this with pride.
I'm confessing that I stumble
And need someone to be my guide.

When I say, "I am a Christian,"
I'm not trying to be strong.
I'm professing that I am weak
And pray for strength to carry on.

When I say, "I am a Christian,"
I'm not bragging of success.
I'm admitting I have failed and
Cannot ever pay the debt.

When I say, "I am a Christian,"
I'm not claiming to be perfect.
My flaws are too visible but
God believes I'm worth it.

When I say, "I am a Christian,"
I still feel the sting of pain.
I have my share of heartaches
which is why I seek HIS name.

When I say, "I am a Christian,"
I do not wish to judge.
I have no authority I only know
That I'm loved.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Betrayed Spouse, also please pay attention to what Just Learning have said to you, his words is very true. You urgently need help and as Just Learning have said, many good and wonderful people on these boards will try there best to help you. I will also pray for you. You know, I don’t want to and I’m not going to argue with you any longer. This will be my last post to you. Anyway, I want you to read the following quote I have send to a thread last year October. Maybe it will give you some better understanding of my situation:

Originally posted by Suzet: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just feel the need to share some of my thoughts & experience and what I have learned from it:

My inappropriate friendship with OM was the single, most eye-opening incident that ever happened to me emotionally, mentally and spiritually. Although I had a difficult childhood (physical & sexual abuse) and was raised with a father who was emotionally unavailable to me, my involvement with OM was still the most difficult experience I have ever gone through… Maybe some members will remember that I once told (on this forum) that my father was also involved with another woman since I was 10 years old, and till today, he still regarded her as only a ‘very close, emotional supportive friend’.

I was thus raised with the perception that there is nothing wrong with ‘close opposite sex friendship’ between married people as long as there isn’t any sexual/sensual involvement. My own inappropriate involvement with OM and this website was indeed a VERY big eye-opener to me and corrected all the wrong perceptions I had about opposite sex friendships. I have learned very big lessons from this. BUT God was so good to me in so many ways… Firstly, He gave me a wonderful, forgiving, understanding H...the best I could ever ask for!

Secondly, although this experience with OM and everything that was affected by it (myself, H & M etc) was very painful in so many ways, I certainly now that God also took the situation and used it positively in my life… Although OM was never aware of it, he and my involvement with him was the ‘catalyst’ that on the end forced me to go into IC and explore & resolve all my issues around childhood. If I look back now, I can really see God’s grace & protection in this whole process. For instance, just after my feelings and involvement towards OM had escalated to a level where I was so anxious and emotionally confused that I couldn’t take it anymore, I went to a counselor and started to explore my childhood issues. A week after this, my H discovered one of OM’s e-mails (d-day) and the inappropriateness of the friendship. Till today, I strongly believe that this happening was the hand of God that brought everything out in the open and protected me & my H from more damaging and further involvement with OM.

So, the most important lessons I have learned and my perceptive now and prior to my EA:

1. Illusion (before my EA): There is nothing wrong with close opposite sex friendships, as long there is no physical involvement.

Fact (after EA has ended): Close opposite sex friendship is VERY DAMAGING and a potential thread for any marriage. Friendships like this (especially were there is a close emotional attachment en dependence) are the ‘silent enemy’ and ‘silent killer’ because on the eye it ‘seems’ so innocent.

2. Before EA: If you are happily married and most of your EN’s are being met by your S, no OP or opposite sex friend is a potential thread to the M.

After EA: A’s happen all the time, even in very happy marriages. A marriage can stray en be vulnerable to an affair also because of adverse reasons and circumstances other than problems/issues within the M. All people have some personal problems/issues and baggage they bring into the M. Everyone must be aware of their own weaknesses & vulnerabilities.

3. Before EA: A’s only happen to bad people who have low morals and no conscience. People who have affairs don’t have love or respect towards their spouses.

After EA: A’s can happen to ANYONE – even good, religious people with high morals and strong conscience can get involved in an A... In fact, sometimes the so-called ‘good’ people are more vulnerable to an affair than anyone else because they think they will never get tempted and are not aware of their own human weaknesses. The same is applicable on OP’s.

4. Before EA: If you truly love your spouse, there can never be a place in your heart for someone else. If you develop feelings for someone else, you don’t really love your spouse.

After EA: I believe it IS possible to truly love your S and at the same time have feelings for someone else. The theory of the love bank also explains this phenomenon very clearly. Like I have said earlier, A’s can also happen because of adverse reasons and circumstances other than problems/issues within the M.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To all the other members who’ve posted yesterday and tried to talk ‘sense’ in Betrayed Spouse head, thank you so much. I'm just sorry it turned out the way it did. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Thanks again for the support I receive. Special thanks and hugs to you Spider Slayer! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God bless to all,
Suzet

Thank you, Suzet, for posting that Christian poem. That was beautiful, and just what I needed to read at 2:35 in the morning.

I woke up crying about WH. We are in MC, and he still has no concept of the damage and hurt he has inflicted on his family. I don't even know how committed he is to trying to restore the M.

I keep on keeping on, hoping that eventually he will understand. But knowing he might never.

I once thought we were meant for each other, that nothing could tear us apart. I am losing sight of that certainty. He seems so sure that he never had those "in love" with me feelings.

He just sees me as a good friend right now. And that is what I have to work with. Of course, what gives me hope, is that "good friends" is how him and OW started!

So, maybe there is hope. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Lots of love and support and HUGS!

SS

Spider Slayer, I’m so sorry for your pain. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Please don’t lose hope, there is ALWAYS hope, no matter how dark it might seem right now… Don’t give up… Remember the 3 biggest words: FAITH, HOPE and LOVE. Here is another beautiful poem that will give you extra hope and strength:

IT'S IN THE VALLEYS I GROW

Sometimes life seems hard to bear,
Full of sorrow, trouble and woe
It's then I have to remember
That it's in the valleys I grow.

If I always stayed on the mountain top
And never experienced pain,
I would never appreciate God's love
And would be living in vain.

I have so much to learn
And my growth is very slow,
Sometimes I need the mountain tops,
But it's in the valleys I grow.

I do not always understand
Why things happen as they do,
But I am very sure of one thing.
My Lord will see me through.

My little valleys are nothing
When I picture Christ on the cross
He went through the valley of death;
His victory was Satan's loss.

Forgive me Lord, for complaining
When I'm feeling so very low.
Just give me a gentle reminder
That it's in the valleys I grow.

Continue to strengthen me, Lord
And use my life each day
To share your love with others
And help them find their way.

Thank you for valleys, Lord
For this one thing I know
The mountain tops are glorious
But it's in the valleys I grow!

Here is a beautiful prayer as well:

Let me not live a life that's free From "THE THINGS" that draw me close to THEE.

For how can I ever hope to heal the wounds of others I do not feel
If my eyes are dry and I never weep?
How do I know when the hurt is deep
If my heart is cold and it never bleeds?
How can I tell what my brother needs?
For when my ears are deaf to the beggar's plea
And we close our eyes and refuse to see,
And we steel our hearts and harden our mind,
and we count it a weakness whenever we're kind,
We are no longer following THE FATHER'S WAY
Or seeking His guidance from day to day
For, without "crosses to carry" and "burdens to Bear,"
We dance through a life that is frothy and fair,
And "chasing the rainbow" we have no desire
For "roads that are rough" and "realms that are Higher"-

So spare me no heartache or sorrow, dear Lord,
For the heart that is hurt reaps the richest reward,
And God enters the heart that is broken with sorrow
As He opens the door to a BRIGHTER TOMORROW,
For only through tears can we recognise
The suffering that lies in another's eyes.

Spider Slayer, I think about you in this very difficult moment and I will keep you in my prayers... I know you will get through this and be stronger so much stronger in the end! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ March 17, 2004, 04:07 AM: Message edited by: Suzet ]</small>

Thank you, Suzet. You cannot know how much I needed to read those. I am going to print them out.

And see if I can go back to sleep.

HUGS! SS

Just Learning,

Your comments were welcome and I appreciate them. However, I am aware that affairs dont just end w/o the other person still thinking about what they are missing. However, the Harleys says to make sure there are NO contact as well. Now if that means you need to take your self out of the situation by leaving a jog ect.. then that is what is needed. Suzet will always struggle because she is not taking the appropriate steps to change the situation. It is like she wakes up every morning thinking... will I see the other man today?

How could that be healthy for anyone. What if the situation was on the other foot people? What if your spouse went to work everyday, and there was a chance that they may see each other today? How would you feel. See we can not trust a person who has proven to be untrustworthy!!! That is the bottom line here folks!

We speak about Christinaity, but where were those christan behaviors while we were getting our FIX? It is so convient for us to use the I am saved and Christian beliefs when we think it is convient for us. I am a Christain my self and have

MORALS, HONEST, STAYED TRUE TO MY MARRIAGE.. (NO REVENGE SEX) COMMITTED TO MY HUSBAND AND FAMILY. So you can call all the names you please. Is this something a Christian would call someone else? I am done here as well. I am happy, I have my husband here with me. I do feel bad for all the people who's spouses has hurt them. Really, I am very compationate to your feelings and wish you well in this long journey.

Spider Slayer,
I want to start today by apologizing for yesterdays comments to you about you husband and your situation. Believe me, my heart goes out to you. I am sorry you are going through terrible situation. I know exactly how you feel. Although my situation is different. I found an email between my husband the OW, and confronted him while he was in Irac. I went 5 months waiting for him to return so we could discuss this problem. Fortunantly he was VERY apologetic and very remorse for his behavior. This OW lived hundreds of miles away so I never had to deal with her still being in the picture. However, I ask WH if there was anything that I did to make him have an affair? We were doing Radical Honesty and he said No, he was being selfish. He wanted was offered to him and he enjoyed every minute of it. He was sorry it happened, but it was all him. I believe him, because he told me about the 3 encounter, positions, times, what made her orgasim. (sorry) What he enjoyed and wanted more of. But the bottom line here is, men cheat because it is something they want to do. Now there might be needs that are not being met, but do they normally go out and cheat cause there wife doesnt talk to them? If that is the case, then why have sex with the OP? All the people here who I offended, I do apologize. We are all on the same road here.

Suzet, I understand how EA happen. It does happen, and sometimes very easy. I think that is a completly different situation here. I will pray for you too. The only problem or question I had with you was: why dont you change the situation? Meaning changing your job? But I guess you know you situation better than me. Good Luck to you.

I followed this thread yesterday with the angry exchange of words. You and Spider Slayer are both hurting tremendously!

How miraculous and beautiful to see your apology this morning, Betrayed Spouse.
It made me cry tears of joy!
One of the most beautiful statements in the world is a sincere, "I am sorry" and likewise the next beautiful words are "I am sorry also and you are forgiven."

When the Bible says "Soft words calm wrath and harsh words stir up anger" that is so true. We need to remember and live that every day with our spouses.

Suzet, what you wrote about what your learned from your EA is very valuable and heartfelt. I printed it off. I will post it here one more time:

"The most important lessons I have learned and my perceptive now and prior to my EA:

1. Illusion (before my EA): There is nothing wrong with close opposite sex friendships, as long there is no physical involvement.

Fact (after EA has ended): Close opposite sex friendship is VERY DAMAGING and a potential thread for any marriage. Friendships like this (especially were there is a close emotional attachment en dependence) are the ‘silent enemy’ and ‘silent killer’ because on the eye it ‘seems’ so innocent.

2. Before EA: If you are happily married and most of your EN’s are being met by your S, no OP or opposite sex friend is a potential thread to the M.

After EA: A’s happen all the time, even in very happy marriages. A marriage can stray en be vulnerable to an affair also because of adverse reasons and circumstances other than problems/issues within the M. All people have some personal problems/issues and baggage they bring into the M. Everyone must be aware of their own weaknesses & vulnerabilities.

3. Before EA: A’s only happen to bad people who have low morals and no conscience. People who have affairs don’t have love or respect towards their spouses.

After EA: A’s can happen to ANYONE – even good, religious people with high morals and strong conscience can get involved in an A... In fact, sometimes the so-called ‘good’ people are more vulnerable to an affair than anyone else because they think they will never get tempted and are not aware of their own human weaknesses. The same is applicable on OP’s.

4. Before EA: If you truly love your spouse, there can never be a place in your heart for someone else. If you develop feelings for someone else, you don’t really love your spouse.

After EA: I believe it IS possible to truly love your S and at the same time have feelings for someone else. The theory of the love bank also explains this phenomenon very clearly. Like I have said earlier, A’s can also happen because of adverse reasons and circumstances other than problems/issues within the M."

<small>[ March 17, 2004, 07:20 AM: Message edited by: Blessed TIME ]</small>

How does one go from;

" We speak about Christianity, but where were those Christian behaviors when we were getting our FIX?"

to

"All of the people here who I offended, I do apologize. We are all on the same road."

in a span of four minutes in two different posts?

To know if you like a book, you have to look past the cover.

Betrayed Spouse,

I can see there is a positive change in your attitude and I’m happy about it! Under these circumstances I’m more than willing to answers your questions regarding my job situation. If I said hurtful things to you yesterday and today, I apologize. I just felt very upset about your attacking posts and I only expressed honestly how I perceived you from your posts to me and other members. But you've apologized and I want to thank you for it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Regarding my job situation - I’ve posted regarding it on this and other threads, but maybe you haven’t read it. I’ll have to copy a few things from the other threads to give you the full picture. It will be a bit long, so please bear with me. Here goes:

First I agree that is the best not working in the same place as the OP. I understand that’s the only way to keep NC and the importance of it. My main problem is finding another job in this country (I’m living in South Africa). My chance to find another job in this country is very scarce. Unemployment is very high, appropriate job opportunities with equal advantages and salary is very scarce, but my main ‘stumble block’ is the one of affirmative action… That means that vacant job opportunities in this country is mostly given to the ‘past disadvantaged people’ and I don’t belong to that group… This is very frustrating.

Two months ago my H was victimized and unfairly dismissed from his work (long story). The case is in progress and will go to the higher court soon if things can’t be settled. Currently my H still try to find another job. As I’ve said, it’s difficult to get another job in this country under the current circumstances. Before my H’s dismissal, he was working at the same company as me and there is still a chance that he might come back. Working at the same company as my H was a big assurance to me. While my H was still working here, I could immediately called him if it was necessary. My H knows there is a big chance that he might get his job back at this company and we both prefer working at the same company where we can have regular contact.

I am also able to talk with my H about my concerns/anxieties about working at the same company as OM. My H understands my feelings, but due to the difficulties of finding another job he feels I must continue to give it some more time and patience. And currently, with my H’s job situation, I’m the only one with a financial income.

H and I are living in a small town and in the same area as OM. Therefore, even if I would find another job at another company, there would still be a chance that I might accidentally ‘bump’ into OM outside working hours. I’m thankful that it’s not necessary for me to have contact with OM on any professional or working level. If that would have been the case, I would definitely not be able to still work at the same company as OM. I have found ways to avoid accidental contact with him to the minimum. I don’t bump into him every day, it only happen once in a while and under normal circumstances I can handle it. The e-mails I have received from OM have put me a few steps back emotionally on my recovery road, but I’m on my way moving past it again.

Currently we wait to see what’s going to happen with my H’s job situation. We’re wait to see if he’s going to be reinstated (re-employed) by this institution. Currently I’m also a target of victimization by this institution due to me and my H’s connection, so maybe on the end I will also be ‘forced’ to leave due to circumstances as well. Maybe my H will find work elsewhere and we will move to another province… I don’t know. Only time will tell and we know God will provide on the right time.

I keep my ears and eyes open for another job, but I don't actively searching for another one because of the reasons I have given above.

<small>[ March 17, 2004, 08:01 AM: Message edited by: Suzet ]</small>

Betrayed Spouse -

I also apologize for my harsh words yesterday. It is not often I run into someone on these boards with such a limited perspective on the nature of an A.

No offense. And when you failed to see it my way, I resorted to Angry Outburst and Disrespectful Judgements. Hm. Human nature is frightfully predectable!

Anyway, I hope you stay lingering on the boards, and keep your mind open to learning. I caught my WH's EA in emails, and he denied the PA until the day he had a mental breakdown and he confessed to me in the ER.

Then he went to a halfway house, then his parents' house, now his own apartment.

He is very confused and lost. I live with uncertainty each day.

The one question I have for you, regarding your WH's job, is what are you going to do to protect against future deployments?

If his reason is purely selfish, what is to stop him next time? Is he actively searching to get out of the military?

For him, instead of avoiding the OP, he might need to avoid certain circumstances - like being out from under your watchful eye.

If that is your plan, just watching him and reminding him of the right thing to do, you might consider educating yourself a bit more on why spouses stray.

You could be onto the right reasons, but I do not think you are. I was serious yesterday about my concern that with your present attitude, you could find yourself here again, heartbroken again.

Best of luck.

SS

Betrayed Spouse_2002,

Where are you? Are you still around? Have you read our responses? Just wondering why you are suddenly so quite…

Suzet

<small>[ March 19, 2004, 01:30 AM: Message edited by: Suzet ]</small>