A few days ago I posted my one month update. Things were going better than I ever would have hoped for...ever heard the saying, 'too good to be true'?

So my H finally wrote his NC letter. The following day OW sends him an email saying "If this is really what you want..." I asked my H if the OW contacted him & he said no. The email was marked 'unread' so I assumed he just hadn't checked that email account. The following day the email had been deleted & my H still denied having received it. I was balistic!!! The past 2 weeks had been wonderful. I couldn't have asked for more attention, affection, or love...now another lie. Will the lies ever end?

Of course, this got my mind going & wound up with me accessing my H's work email account (he gave me the password several days ago). Apparently after leaving her 'if this is what you want...' email she proceeded to send an email to him at work (she's his boss) 'laughing' at me not wanting them to be in contact. She added to the bottom of the email 'Whoops, if I add xxxxx (company information) it won't be a personal email and you won't have to report it to her.' Good feeling to have this witch laugh at me. Better feeling when I saw that not only did my H respond to her but that he also included the xxxx (company info) in his emails to her. Great, now I'm being mocked by my H.

I read their emails for the past few days. She says she's sorry that I had to read their previous emails where he 'bared his soul' because she didn't think I could handle it. What!? First, while I know this woman, I've never held a conversation with her so how does she know what I can/can't handle? Second, I've been with my H for 13 years so what makes her think I lack knowledge about his 'soul'? Third, bring it on baby! Let's see what I can handle!

Their emails are not even close to the intimate emails they used to write to each other but they are personal, joking, and mocking me. My H shared some things about our relationship progress (both good and bad) as well as general info about our family that is none of her business.

I confronted my H & he said that their emails were 'no big deal'. He said he wasn't mocking me. He said he wants to be with me but 'she's my boss so I have to play it cool with her'. He's telling me that he doesn't want anything to do with her but he's 'afraid' of 'hurting' her or making her mad. I'm so tired of that excuse. What's she really going to do? NOTHING! The truth is that he doesn't want to really confront this situation. Do I think he wants to be with me? Yes. Do I think that he wants to be rid of this situation? Yes. Do I think he truly wants NC with her? Well, because it's bothering me I'd say yes but I'm not sure if I wasn't making a big deal out of it if he would want to stop being 'friends' with her. I did let him know that until he serves me with D papers (which he says will never happen, is not what he wants, and isn't an option) he's my H & if she doesn't leave him alone I will contact her job.

Thursday my H calls me on my cell & tells me that he sent OW an email and he sent me a copy. He wants me to read it & call him when I'm done. He said it expressed his true feelings. The email addressed the xxxx (company info) they included in their emails over the past few days and how it was mocking & disrespectful to me and that he wouldn't do that to me. It said that he had gotten confused & lost his way but that he is back on track and wants to rebuild his life with me. He said that he didn't want to end their friendship but it had to happen in order for each to rebuild their marriages. He said that he knew this was difficult for both of them because of what they shared but that he can't continue to deny my wishes while still trying to get me to believe that I am #1 in his life. The email sounded good but I didn't really have a huge reaction to it. I believed him when he wrote the first one & then got mocked.

Just prior to him writing this last NC letter OW sent this to my H:

I am not to speak to you, I am to think of you
when I sit alone or wake at night,
alone I am to wait, I do not doubt I am to meet you again
I am to see to it that I do not lose you.

This morning we fought again. He was trying to be all cuddly & I couldn't stop thinking about one of the emails she had written to him. She said, "Isn't it a shame that it took our A in order for them (spouses) to pay attention to us." There was kind of a mocking tone to this. My reaction was "Isn't it a shame that it took their A for my H to realize that I'm a pretty good catch after all." I said this & he got mad. So we started with the 'same ole same ole' with him questioning why I can't just drop it, move on, realize he loves me, work on the present rather than focusing on the past, etc. My H doesn't communicate & I talk too much. My H doesn't harp on things & I beat them to a pulp before I can get over them. We're different when it comes to dealing with things that hurt/bother us.

So, can anyone help me? I'm just lost right now. I should be happy about this past NC letter & I know that this probably seems trivial with the much more complex posts I've read on this board. I was being affectionate, loving, meeting ENs while trying not to LB & I was truly enjoying the same from my H. Now I feel betrayed all over again. I know my H loves me but...how do I keep myself open while I still wonder what the truth is? Do I really have to keep snooping? My H says I'm too focused on their 'past' (hmmm, they were still having personal contact yesterday). How do I forget that this woman is still feeling whatever she's feeling for my H and he doesn't want to hurt her (which is hurting me)? Am I asking for/expecting too much?

I'm sorry for my blabbering. I could go on forever. Great...Oprah has older woman dating younger men (OW is 9 yrs older than my H).

<small>[ March 15, 2004, 07:44 AM: Message edited by: confusedbymoc ]</small>

Sorry for what you are going through. I know it is tough, but keep checking, try to be guarded but keep in mind that your H is doing all the right things and sometimes it takes a while to fully separate. He is still in the fog.

Look up my posts and see my story--hang in there, keep to NC TOGETHER and you will be on the right track. If you follow the MB principles as Steve Harley says, the mind follows along. I would definitely recommend phone counseling with him if you think you need help not falling back into contact. I think he needs to leave his job NOW!
Take care

Please remind us what exposure has taken place?

Have you considered going to her boss? This could be an open and slam shut case of sexual harassment.

Save those e-mails.

WAT

Is he looking for another job so he can get away from her? The affair is NOT OVER until contact ends completely. Calling contact "business" contact does not change that or fool anyone. Have you contacted her H?

What is H doing to find another job? It is impossible for there to be No Contact with your boss (or if there is, I wan that job).

Can he transfer to another location?

I agree, I think the CO. should know, this is INCREDIBLY inappropriate and the Co. is liable for a lawsuit. They will take measures to make sure there is No Contact...

Thanks everyone. The only exposure at this point is that I have notified the OWH about a week and a half ago. They were supposed to start MC and according to what I've read in emails OWH wants to forgive and fix marriage. OW doesn't know if she can get over her bitterness for him not meeting her needs for so long (supposedly they've had problems for a very long time) but it seems like OWH is trying very hard to work things out with her. I have not contacted the company but will consider this as an option if things don't end (either he doesn't stop or she doesn't). I never thought I'd do that since this is a 'personal' issue but I will if I need to. As far as leaving his job, I'm working on that. My H and OW worked in the same office for 10 years. We recently (end of Oct) moved 200 miles from that office (and they couldn't deal with the loss of their friendship so an A began...one lame excuse I heard) so even though OW is his boss they do not have any physical contact (PA took place on business trips). My H has asked to be transferred off his current project. Today he was told that he will begin something new on Monday so he will report to someone else...thus no reason for them to have ANY kind of contact. His job could (and has) required travel back to the old office occassionally so I will continue to push for another job. sorry for the run on but my enter key isn't working for some reason so I can't start a new paragraph...urgh.

That is a positive development, c. Can you stay in contact with OWH and keep him in the loop about these emails and continued contact? He really needs to know this too and might be able to exert some pressure on that end.

You have a very effective tool in your hand that you aren't using.

Frankly, if it were me, I would be emailing or calling that OW and telling her that ONE MORE CONTACT will result in a letter to HER BOSS and every member of upper managment along with COPIES of the emails that she has sent H over the company system. Tell her that you have access to H's company email and have seen every email. Let her know that you will advertise it to the WORLD.

That would get her attention real quick and might be even be better than actually ratting them out to the company. I'll bet you could be assured that contact ends overnight!

Play hardball, confused, because she sure is! She has NO remorse for what she has done so you can't count on her leaving him alone out of a sense of decency. But I am betting a show of FORCE would be very effective with her.

You do realize that you have enormous power in your hands and she is probably hoping that you don't realize it? She is counting on it.

Yep. I sent WH's OW an email saying I would call her mother (which is a big deal to her, which I know, as she was my "best friend" puke gag), tell all the other wives at Scouts (so their unsuspecting H's didn't go camping with her and her uncontollable sexual urges), and the parents of her daycare kids (she had told me of a few sexual escapades she had had while the kids were watching TV during the day with other men - she is single).

It was amazing. The next day, she told WH that what they did was wrong, that she was so sorry about the way she hurt me, and that she has repented to God and can have no more contact in that way with WH.

Hm. It never hurts to remind someone that they shouldn't do anything they would be embarassed about having published on the front page of the newspaper the next day. It doesn't hurt one bit.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> SS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

double ditto Mel

Didn't I advise you earlier that you are the most powerful woman on OW's planet?

Keeping Mel's thought in mind, another alternative is to very calmly explain to your H that you expect no contact after Monday. You have methods to determine contact. Any contact on her part will result in you exposing as Mel has described. If you can deliver this calmly and with a loving attitude, it doesn't have to come across as an ultimatum.

Also, send OWH to this site.

WAT

Why don't you just email her [OW] and make sure she knows you are reading ALL of their emails ... because your husband is WILLINGLY sharing them. Be sure to include some of her excerpts for proof.

That should do the trick. And your H should, without question, agree to and support you in emailing her.

Jo

<small>[ March 12, 2004, 08:54 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

the one time i did have to confront ow i told her i knew my husband spent hours telling her what a bit** i was and asked her---wanna find out how much truth is in it? (LOL)

i also told her that if she contacted my husband on any occasion i would become her worst nightmare. i asked her if anything unexpectedly bad had happened to her lately???(then gave a sly smile--no i didnt do any of it but she didnt know that hahaha) i also told her i would be more than happy to show up at her wedding, the birth of her children, their graduation and any other important event for the rest of her life! (she is now pale and shaking) just to make sure that everyone in her life knew exactly what kind of woman she is.

needless to say---she ran.

confusedby I am going to take a different approach at this ...and it is not to say what you are doing is wrong...it is just someone else's opinion...
take what serves you...

You know all of this ...as with all things on paper...even cyber paper...look so much easier and perfect here then they are in the real world...

we focus heavily on the NC contact...but we all need to remember that NC contact without real intent is pretty much useless....

but also that sometimes there is intent with human failings and flaws....that we really do desire and want no contact...but really aren't sure how to do it when push comes to shove...

I think your husbands intent is real...
I think he really does desire to be with you alone
I think he wants to be with you...

I think OW is pathetic and still has no clue about her own actions and responsibility and is still trying to justify and rationalize her actions and cleave to your husband..for surely he will not judge her....and she is using him to seek validation of her bad behavior...

"Isn't it a shame that it took our A in order for them (spouses) to pay attention to us."

pure mumbo jumbo that is truly pathetic and pityful....

people often desribe the layers and actions of affairs that hurt...ones that I never even considered or realized...but lately people have mentioned that one of the losses one feels in an affair is losing their protector..

and though I never really thought of my husband as a protector...I sure did and do expect those behaviors from him....and in not thinking of him as my protector..I also never thanked him for that....
THAT second email...confusedby that SECOND email...
praise Jesus...YOUR PROTECTOR IS BACK !!!!!
Honestly that's what I saw in that one...
the real mr. confusedbymoc who says...
you can't mock my wife..it's not OK...it's not OK for you or me to do that...
and it came in his own words...
and it is in my opinion a big deal...and should get heaps and heaps..
because in his first NC letter he wanted no contact...
he wants you you..
but in the second NC letter
he defines his belief in YOU
he GETS that it is you he is protecting ...
and in that NC he defines her (OW) as the threat to that protection...and somewhere between the lines the enemy...
AND that's the message that she got...that "we used to sit around and put our spouses down to build up what we were doing...but the truth is that that was all just mumbo-jumbo to deflect the wrongness of what we were doing....
and i am no longer going to do that..whoo hooo!!!"

SO
that leaves you back on the homefront...
And understandably so you felt very vulnerable...and hurt and angry...but perhaps it is time agan to re-visit that you can't control him...and certainly not her...
and that in the end this recovery really does have to be his choice...not his decision because every time he comes home you are telling him this...
and again and again...I am not saying you are not entitled to your pain or feelings...I am saying perhaps it is time to communicate them differently...

I think OW will either continue to take jabs at you.....and your husband will see them as they are....and grow weary and tired and even angry at them...

Or
she will feel scolded like a little child and back off...

either way neither behavior is very mature or smart...and both continue to lack insight gained by your husband...

I think you should clam up right now..
that it sounds like he has really started to put into real "place" the actions of NC that do look easy on paper...

I think if you access any more of those emails from her...that you "educate" your husband about how they make you feel with out anger..but you speak your pain and hurt softly and with picture words like in peppers recent post titled dear daddy...(I believe)....
and that you give him lots of love and compassion when he does you right...like stepping up and figuring out to communicate the re-emmergence of his PROTECTIVENESS for you OVER her....!!

that's a big deal...because in the affair..he protecthed her.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> gag gag gag..and left you out to dry...but not anymore...
and the more she mocks you...the more it will be used against her by HIM... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

so I am rambling rambling...that to try to change your tactics just a little...
give him lots and lots of positive reinforcement...
communicate and thank him for the return of your protector....in a way that really shows that you missed that in him...and are so glad he is back...

just my angle on this...
I am begining to view recovery as a huge exercise in God's true compassion and love...that the amount of self control and prayer needed for recovery..is much greater than the self control needed during the affair and demise itself...
that we can lose what we want through our own destructive actions and need to pray heavily for humility...and God's Grace...

ARK

I think ark nailed it.

After reading her post, I re-read yours and I really think ark is right.

I recommend you STOP agonizing over OW and START working with your husband. You have a chance here to really start rebuilding IF you can look forward and not focus as much on what happened in the recent past. I don't mean to ignore the affair, but you have to strengthen your bond to your H first - before you can resolve your pain. He needs you to look forward. Start building and the past will be resolved.

WAT

confusedbymoc,

I was going to post to you and then read ark's awesome response...so now I can keep this "short" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ...

Warning: I am not commenting on what others have -- tactics to use with OW...I care about the interaction you are having with your H...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am begining to view recovery as a huge exercise in God's true compassion and love...that the amount of self control and prayer needed for recovery..is much greater than the self control needed during the affair and demise itself... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I passionately agree with the overall approach ark is advocating...there are different approaches/opinions here on the MB forums and no one is an expert...but let me share a little bit of hard-won experience with you nonetheless...

"force" can be dangerous in my opinion...as long as you keep seeing things in that light (ie. using your "weapons"), you are also leaving yourself open to a backlash of most painful proportions...

your H must choose, all the way along actually...that is a FACT...but I think this is crucial at the beginning of recovery most of all...

you can love and support his choice, or punish and threaten him into taking the "right" way...there are many options available to you...

some approaches "feel" much better, and support your "right"...others take longer, are softer, and will make you feel like a virtual doormat at times...but I think in all honesty this second approach might also prevent a false recovery, when the WS does what they think is right before they have really made the choice for themselves...

just my opinion...trying to add a little personal observation to what ark said...best of luck to you...this is not a course for wimps, no matter what you choose to do! awed

P.S. geez...so much for short...
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ...as I read back my response before posting, I felt compelled to go back and add some specific stuff so you can see what I am talking about...

basically, if you are going to ignore my suggestions, I might as well give you lots of info so that you truly understand the peril I see ahead for you...

I REALLY do not want to see you sabotage yourself in recovery and feel that this may well be the path you are currently on unless you decide to change your perspective...

we BS tend to do this all the time and then wonder why our recoveries are stalled... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She said, "Isn't it a shame that it took our A in order for them (spouses) to pay attention to us." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">who cares? You're not M to her...don't EVER hold your H responsible for her, what she said, what she did... let it go ...

in fact, I'll go much further than that...let HER go...get her out of your lives and your conversations as much as possible...she's already done enough damage...this is about YOU and your H...

try always to keep it there...between you...how you feel and how he acts...and remember to ask him questions about how he feels and be INTERESTED in what he has to say...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He was trying to be all cuddly & I couldn't stop thinking about one of the emails she had written to him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">let me try one of the techniques I've been using with someone else recently...something I read that is a really valuable tool for you to use...

everytime you find yourself saying I "can't", substitute I "won't"...

so this now becomes: "He was trying to be all cuddly & I wouldn't stop thinking about one of the emails she had written to him."

you are in control of yourself...your H who CHOSE you over OW is trying to cuddle with you and you are punishing him because you insist on obsessing about something OW said??? When we look at it this way, does it make sense to you?

you are letting OW -- HER -- come between you and your H... YOU are letting her in your bedroom...how does that make you feel???

sigh <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ...do you want to be right or do you want to be married...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How do I forget that this woman is still feeling whatever she's feeling for my H and he doesn't want to hurt her (which is hurting me)? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Honey...unlike ark I know exactly how this feels...I know exactly what you are facing...it is the toughest course I have ever imagined and I am one tough lady...

you just DO...there is no secret formula...work on it, it will be really really hard to do...and the only encouraging thing I can tell you is that it gets better over time...but you must put it out of your mind...

OW is going to feel and do whatever she is going to feel and do...you can take actions that you've thought out -- calmly and rationally please! -- as you need to in response to her if you must...but you will never control what she feels and does, regardless of ANY actions she takes in response to yours...

as for your H and what he is feeling, just accept it... I KNOW how hard this is to do ...but if you do not accept it, you will only drive a wedge between you that will make recovery much tougher...or perhaps impossible in the end...

he feels as he does...nothing can change that...it is a natural part of the process...try to keep that in mind too...it helps...

the more sympathetic and understanding you are, the more you see this as something the two of you will work through together, the safer you make it for him to share his feelings with you = the better the chances of truly recovering a happy, healthy M...

conflict is part of every happy, healthy M...how we deal with conflict defines us...you will have to walk through the fire to learn this particular lesson...I'm just trying to prevent you from experiencing a real burn...

hope something I've said here helps...awed again...really going this time...

Oh confused. I was so sorry to read your post. I'm sorry I missed it yesterday, just wasn't on MB yesterday afternoon/night.

Everyone gave you some good input. The only other thing I would add is to update OW's H about the continued contact. He should know and it could help you even more if he's aware.

I know how it goes with the continued lying. My H lied about the A during the first three months of MC before he would actually come clean. The continued lying hurts so much. It doesn't make sense when your H tells you he loves you and then lies!

It's a struggle for WS's to find their way. Some take longer, some fight it, and then there's some that jump right in.

I think that since the OW is your H's boss, he's trying to be "cool" and stay on her good side somewhat because of his job. If this OW wasn't his boss, I bet NC wouldn't be a problem.

I don't think either of them realize the power you have....especially OW. Use it as you need to get your M in shape and recovery moving.

Take care. I hope you have a good weekend.

sss

[QUOTE]Originally posted by confusedbymoc:
[

<small>[ March 15, 2004, 08:25 AM: Message edited by: confusedbymoc ]</small>

d

sorry everyone. I'm still reading what you've all written and some how clicked something that made it all repost in bold?????????? Can we all say 'computer illiterate'? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> In advance, thank you to all. I'm still reading and letting it all sink in. Great advice so far...

Hello all,

I just want to thank you all for the support you have given to my BS. I will not be on here much, but have explored this thread. The contents of the 2nd NC letter are included below. Looking for input as to where I am and how I can make this any bit easier for my BS.

Thanks, moc

-----------------------------------------------

OW,

Listen. I know this is hard as it has been hard on me also. However, I'm realizing that the stuff with "customer1..customer2..customer3" isn't right. I gave BS my word the other day to abide by what I had written to you in that email asking for no personal contact. And by doing that stuff in the emails (and I know I've done it too), is not showing her any respect and is in a way mocking her. I'm not gonna do that to my wife and realize that I'm wrong for doing it too.

I do not want our friendship to end but it has to be that way in order for us to move forward in our marriages. At least it is for me. I cannot even attempt to reconcile with BS while knowing that she does not want me to have any personal contact with you. That is what she wants, she is my wife, and that is what I will attempt to give to her. I am sorry that I have caused you pain in your marriage, but I do hope that you and OWH build the bond that you always wished was there...And from what you've told me, things look bright.

And lastly what I apologize for is that I should not have been wavering on a fence for so long. It isn't fair to you and it isn't fair to BS. The only person it was helping was me in trying not to cause anymore hurt than I already have. One of my weaknesses is hating confrontation that hurts another in which that hurt was delivered because of my wrongdoing. Obviously this is the case here. So while I wavered in the past, I will do so no more. I need to rebuild my life, my love, and my family - all this hand in hand with BS and see where the road takes me. I got confused, lost my way a bit and wavered from the road, but this road is what I believe will lead me to my happiness and the happiness of my wife and kids.

This is obviously not an easy or comfortable situation. There is no way it can be with the things that we have shared, but there is also no way that I can continue to deny the wishes of my wife while telling her that she is the number one priority in my life. For all the obvious distaste I have for organized religion, I do find that the Bible does have meaningful verse:

"No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the
one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one,
and despise the other" - Matthew 6:24

I plan to love only one and never plan to hate the other. However, I do plan to love my wife which does mean that I must give up the other. I truly hope you understand and truly hope that this is the last opportunity I will have to cause you hurt.

moc