I am at a place in my personal recovery, that I feel ready to give WH tough love. I am NOT doing this just to get him to come home. I am doing this to gain back my power. The man still thinks if he called me today and wanted to come home, I would be so happy.

WRONG! He has sooooo much work to do to come home. And, to be honest, I am just not afraid of . . . I don't want to say "being alone anymore," because I have 2 great boys, and I am hardly ever alone!!! I am not afraid to live without him anymore.

And to be honest some more, and man he has become scares me. He is irrational, angry, selfish, and not pleasant to be around.

So, this is the letter I intend to email to him on Sunday, after praying at church. I will also be praying here at home about this letter. The Holy Spririt will guide me, along with all my new friends here.

"Dear WH:

I’ve been through some very tough moments since you decided to leave, you know. My love for you is so profound that I just couldn’t face the possibility of life without you. To a person like me who expected to marry only once and to remain committed for life, it is a severe shock to see our relationship begin to unravel. Nevertheless, I have done some intense soul searching, and I now realize that I have been attempting to hold you against your will. That simply cannot be done. As I reflect on our courtship and early years together, I’m reminded that you married me of your own free choice. I did not blackmail you or twist your arm or offer you a bribe. It was a decision you made without pressure from me. Now you say you want out of the marriage and, obviously, I have to let you go. I’m aware that I can no more force you to stay today than I could have made you marry me in 1991. You are free to go. If you never call me again, then I will accept your decision. I admit that this entire experience has been painful, but I’m going to make it. The Lord has been with me thus far, and He’ll go with me in the future. You and I had some wonderful times together, WH. You were my first real love, and I’ll never forget the memories that we shared. I will pray for you and trust that God will guide you I the years ahead.

Love, SS"

We have a MC appointment on Tuesday. If he reacts poorly to this email at this meeting, I am going to hand him the other suggested letter in the Love Must be Tough book, and excuse myself from MC politely [I will post this letter later. It is longer].

You see, if he is not ready to face himself, I am wasting my time at MC. Listening to him blame, whine, and pity himself is making me lose all respect for him.

He is so in his fog right now! He sent me an email that I posted on Recovery earlier in the week, and several posters thought that HE was the BS! He is so pathetic.

He will come to his senses some day. But I don't want to be his scape-goat anymore. I will not do it. I am to a place of personal recovery where I get stronger each day.

I have the best friends, church, and family support imaginable.

I need to take advantage of my fortunate circumstances, and act from my place of strength and power.

Please give feedback and opinions.

Thank you all!!!

SS

SS

I can't give advice either way. It sounds good. But I am certainly no expert on whether to give it or not. I am here for you if you need to talk though. Hugs

NY

SS, Of course, I cannot make the call for you. Only you can do that after you have evaluated the situation and taken all advice worth taking.

Your situation seems like mine in one way. I think we are both tired of paying for our wayward spouse's sins.

I still love my wife very much and I hope that she will decide to return to our marriage and build and new and better one together. But, I no longer wish to suffer because of her decision to leave me for the the OM.

I think I would give him the letter. I'm just like you - tired of being blamed for everything. In my instance, I have given up on talking sanely to WH. I'm thinking of filing for D, mainly because I am being wiped out financially while he continues to blow his money on OW.

Thanks all for your replies. I will not file for D, unless he takes away his paycheck - as he has threatened to do more than once.

My attorney says that in my state, if WH does this, that I have to file the claim of D to secure financial support for me and the boys.

And WH would be a total fool to believe I will do not do whatever is required to protect me and mine.

I am so glad I found the Spider Slayer inside of myself again!

I have done all of this before. I have been poor (WH was in the Army), I have raised my kids alone (WH was in the Army), I have known the bitter taste of life not going my way and having no control over it (DM is in nursing home due to MS and brain damage - 100% dimenitia - on my own since I was 15 - didn't meet my DF until I was 14 and we are not close).

AND, on top of all of THAT, I AM SANE! I am making decisions from information and knowledge and love and peace.

WH is lost, to himself and us. He does not want my assistance - he has made that abundantly clear to me.

So, he can go it alone, or come and ask me nicely for help.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> SS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ March 13, 2004, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: Spider Slayer ]</small>

Where are you in the process? Have you sent the ole' Plan B letter? Is that still an option.

Be careful of LBs, especially DJ in the letter. This is my most common LB. It just permeates my attitude sometimes, especailly when I'm hurt.

Make this more of a love letter

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "Dear WH:

I’ve been through some very tough moments since you decided to leave, you know Is you know really necessary? He may not... . My love for you is so profound that I just couldn’t face the possibility of life without you Make this sweeter, explain in plain language how much you love him, explain profound... . To a person like me who Repalce this statement with I? expected to marry only once and to remain committed for life, it is a severe shock to see our relationship begin to unravel. Nevertheless, I have done some intense soul searching, and I now realize that I have been attempting to hold you against your will. That simply cannot be done. As I reflect on our courtship and early years together, I’m reminded that you married me of your own free choice . I did not blackmail you or twist your arm or offer you a bribe. It was a decision you made without pressure from me Getting into some rub his nose in his transgressions talk here...I'd leave all this part out about his choice before. He knows that, it is just a nagging reminder that he will be angry about and rationalize away. Instead explain how it makes you feel to have your expectations changed. . Now you say you want out of the marriage and, obviously, I have to let you go. I’m aware that I can no more force you to stay today than I could have made you marry me in 1991. You are free to go Well, thank you very much...no need to include this...he always has been. . If you never call me again, then I will accept your decision This would be a good time to change this part (if it woere going to read more like a Plan B letter) that you explain there will be no contact with him because it hurts too much. . I admit that this entire experience has been painful, but I’m going to make it. The Lord has been with me thus far, and He’ll go with me in the future. You and I had some wonderful times together, WH. You were my first real love, and I’ll never forget the memories that we shared Leave these 2 sentences out...sounds like a kiss off. . I will pray for you and trust that God will guide you I the years ahead. Add something in here about the fact that you are not giving up on the M but have to begin to face reality, that you both may not get back to together. Now's the time for you to point out his path to come back...what will that look like? NC with OW, what EN's would you need (honesty, time) and request MC?

Love, SS"
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have seen many of your posts and you are giving GREAT advice. Don't give up...they do come back...not all, but they do. Read my recovery story on the recovery board. I didn't follow much of my own advice, but my Plan B letter was the turning point for our recovery.

I understand all that you are saying SHMI, but . . .

I have told him all that other stuff. I have written him love letters. He looks at me like a caged animal. He has told me over and over again he feels trapped and strangled by me.

This letter opens his cage door. It spells out very precisely that I am moving on, with or without him.

For now, I am leaving it as it is. I TOTALLY understand what you are saying. I do not want to soften any of the edges of this letter. I have done that in the past, and it has gotten me nowhere.

Yeah, now we can civilly talk in email to each other, but he is cake eating and fence sitting. This next letter I will give him if he freaks about this letter at MC on Tuesday - it will be handwritten:

"It’s a curious thing, WH, how a person loses all perspective when he’s so close to a problem. It becomes difficult to see the issues clearly, and that has definitely happened to me in recent months. But in the past few weeks I’ve been able to pull back from our difficulties, and I now see everything in an entirely new light. It is incredible just how foolish I have been since you decided to leave. I have tolerated your unfaithfulness for several months. I guess I just loved you so much that I was willing to do anything you demanded, just to keep you from leaving me.

But I’ll tell you, WH, those days are over! If you want to go, you can certainly do so. In fact, that may be for the best. I doubt if I can ever trust you again or feel for you as I once did. I wasn’t a perfect wife, to be sure, but no other man has touched me since I pledged myself to you. But you violated my trust – not once but repeatedly for all these months. I’m no longer special to you – I’m just one of a crowd. I cannot live with that. I’d rather face life alone than as a member of your harem. If OW is the one you want, I hope the two of you will be happy together. I’m still not sure how something so wonderful became so dirty and distorted, but that is between you and the Lord. We both have to answer to Him in our own way, and my conscience is clear.

So where do we go from here, WH? I’ve been doing some intensive thinking. It just won’t work for you to hopscotch between OW and me, trying to make it all seem so normal. You say you aren’t sure which one you want? Well, that isn’t very inspiring to me. You pledged eternal love and commitment to me on our wedding day, but now that could be gone with the toss of a coin. What we both need is some time apart. If in the future you decide you want to be my husband, then we’ll talk about it. I make no promises, however. I’m doing everything possible to remove you from my heart, to spare myself any more pain. It’s not going to be easy. You were my only love – the only one I ever wanted. But that was then and this is now. God bless you, WH. The kids and I miss you.

SS"

I like the second letter better...why even send the first?

And at the end of the second letter...instead of 'when you decide to work on our M' to a more spelled out version of "when you are willing to give up all contact with the OW and devote yourself to me and our M, then..." It gives the WS a set of firmer rules...they know what is expected of him. What would stop him after reading your letter saying "I am willing to work on our M, I'm at MC, but you'll have to give me some time to give up OW." Be very clear what you are willing to have as a devoted M.

You are a strong lady (and not afraid of spiders). But the other edge of that sword is that we can say or do things that can be very hurtful in trying to protect ourselves...trying to protect ourselves from pain and hurt.

This is VERY painful and VERY hurtful, let your H see that. H's feel very bad when they can't protect their loved ones from pain or hurt. If he see OW as the frailer of the 2 he will lean towards her side longer...KISA (Knight in Shining Armor) syndrome.

And I guess I am a little backwards in the way I am explaining this...be honest about your feelings, and the the outcome may have a surprising effect, rather than the other way around...

Don't be SOOOO strong that you protect him from the pain and hurt of this situation too.

Hi SS
Sounds like you have now read Love Must be Tough. It is a great book. I thought it would help you.

As others have said, only you know where you are in this. I think it makes sense for you. The reason being that he seems to see any contact by you as a love bust. However I did read his recent emails with both some discouraging and encouraging statements from him.

I think in some ways you need to remove yourself from him so as he can't keep blaming you for his unhappiness. If he can't blame you (because you are not in contact) then he might actually have to start examining his own feelings.

Anyway thanks for responding to my post last night. H actually woke up while I was posting and so he was interested after all.
I have become a bit of a lingere addict since my Dday. I like it. I wear it for me, not just him.

I think I was a liitle tipsy and that allowed me to get into a poor me frame of mind. I guess him having been away for a while weakened my self confidence a bit.

Anyway I think your sending the email is a good move.
C&S

Hi SS
I have read this thread & also the one you posted the other day with your h's email in it that made it sound like you were actually the WS. First of all I am sorry for all that you are going thru & for your h's "blindness". I am sending you a link to an old post about doning a 180. It worked beautifully & I think it is definetely worth a read for you as I see alot of similarities in your stories. It is quite long but definetely worth taking an hour to go thru it. Good luck & I hope it helps you.

click here for a successful 180 post. divorce avoided

Thank you all. I have read Carol's post before. If WH gave me any attention at all, perhaps I could do some of those things. We have two children together, and we have it down so that we rarely have to actually communicate, then only through emails.

WH has a definate belief that I am over here waiting for his sorry-a** to come home.

I don't want WH. He has no incentive right now, whatsoever, to do anything different.

Do you know what his brilliant idea is? To not be with me, not be with OW, to just work and be a Scout leader and be with his boys on his days.

He never even wants to be in a relationship again. He is in a total pity party.

Depending on his reaction to the first letter (I was wondering SHMI as I was writing the second letter, if I should just do that one in leui of both), is dependent on when he will get the second, and then eventually the Plan B letter. I haven't written that one yet.

It has been 3 months almost. And WH is no further along his path of "self-discovery" than he was when he had his mental breakdown.

He is upset because the anti-D's he is on cannot seem to take away his depression. It's because drugs cannot take away the guilt and shame you feel when you are unwilling/unable to make it right.

The OW is independant, single, self-sufficient. For some weird reason he wanted to protect her and take care of her, and that is probably why she dumped him. She didn't want anyone putting her in that position again.

The only reaction I have gotten out of WH so far are the few times I have mentioned the D word. He likes to throw it around all the time. He doesn't know I have seen an attorney.

He doesn't know all my ducks are lined up in a row. I am not trying to be too strong, or protect him from the pain he has caused. That will come for him down the road.

No matter how he tries, WH cannot dodge that bullet! I do know eventually he will be back. I truly believe that with all my heart.

I want him back because he wants to be here. Right now he thinks of coming home because it is the "right thing to do." He feels that everyone is trying to pressure him into it, and he feels it is a loveless place for him, a place he doesn't want to be.

I don't want that! Good grief. I would rather be by myself for now. Let him look from the outside in. I will be his lighthouse, not his prison guard.

Keep the comments coming. I am just trying to share more information to give you a clearer picture of where I am coming from.

I am still open to the possibility that I am coming from a crazy place. If I am, I will be the last to know.

I expect all of you to tell me! Thank you!

SS

SS, I did not have a chance to read all the post. You are strong. I read DObson's book, love indeed must be tough. But he also warned that you have to do that under the professional caoch. I hope every thing goes well with you.

I can totally relate to where you are SS.

Sometimes I think to myself, "What exactly am I fighting so hard to keep?" Do I really want a selfish, uncaring, brutal, philandering partner in my life. All the things about him that I used to really appreciate, I am now seeing in another light, or realizing that it was probably more about characteristics that I WANTED him to have, rather than something he really had. Like...INTEGRITY, for example. So much for that!

If I spend the work to heal, improve myself, deal with issues in my heart and mind, pick myself up, dust myself off, and find a way to get past the pain, betrayal, anger, and humiliation, learn to hold my head up high, try and heal my broken children, if I do all the scores of hard work that it takes to move past this, wouldn't it be so much more valuable to move on to something better for me. Not a liar. Not a cheater. Not a man who broke all the promises he made to me and my children, or a man that is going to sit there and race his memories for evidence of my failures to justify something that will never, ever, ever, ever, ever be justified. Or worse, potentially sit there while this man comes back and mourns his "other" relationship. What about the relationship I've been mourning, aka our marriage, FOR MONTHS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do all the hard work to make myself better... for what kind of prize???????? He is no prize.

I guess the "emotional bank account" for me in relation to the feelings I have for my spouse, well, it has about 50 cents in it, and he has written about a million dollar "check" on the "account"...and there is just no way it is going to "clear"

I think about all the years of things that could have been major love busters for me, the million job changes my H underwent (so much for my EN of financial security); the millions of times he turned down sex (so much for my EN of sex); the lack of accountability he has taken on a million things (from forgetting to pay the bills to never mowing the lawn, cleaning the cars, anything else that would show me he cares about me and wants to take care of me).

Come to think of it, this is not the first glimpse of selfishness to hit the "scene"....hmmmmm?

I have been the strong one. The one who worked my [censored] off while he made no $, or did without the physical attention I needed, or the one who took charge of the children, our future, and our household (because he never did).

So...I fix a million things with myself to go back to something that maybe wasn't all the great anyway?????

Am I fighting because I hate to lose, or am I fighting because I really want what I will have if I win?

Like you, I want to fight for something else. A future with someone else!

I don't want a future with someone else. I want a future with my H. I am just trying to find that man again.

From spending endless hours reading and posting, reading and posting, I am beginning to see my WH in a peculiar pattern.

He does not contact me. He has totally convinced himself that we had a loveless marriage, and that he definately does not want to come back.

For 7 weeks, there have been few LB's, VERY limited contact, and WH has not changed at all.

He does not wish to see me, he does not wish to talk to me, let alone any SF. And he is getting no SF anywhere, since he has been dumped.

He is just feeling sorry for himself. He wants to step out of the arena he has created for himself, and hide.

And I am going to release him to that. He can no longer blame me for trying to pressure him to do anything. I am setting him free. Because that is the only way I can know if he is mine.

The old proverb, you know.

Anyway, this seems like the path for me at this point. I don't think he is respecting my soft stance, my understanding words of encouragement.

I think I need to get tough. Because I am! I can!

SS

SS,

Good for you. You are tough. If there is are good things to come of this, it is getting to know yourself, and appreciating the toughness you DO have inside. Like the old saying that says something along the lines of "What doesn't KILL you, will only make you better."

When I say I am looking for someone else...I mean it. Whether that "someone else" is the spouse that I know my H can be, or whether I finally give up on him achieving the emotional maturity it will take to get himself out of this mess. The thing is, while I would want nothing more than the fog to burn off, and for us to get on with the work of rebuilding this M, I realize that those things are entirely out of my control. And the thing is, God did make us with free will. And while God, me, our children, and basically EVERYONE who really knows and loves my H would like this to be, I am realizing (DUHHH!) that the only person who counts is him. He has to want it. And if he never does...well, I will move on.

I think my H would be a lot like yours. Even if the A failed. Even if the fog lifted. Even if all the perfect conditions were to happen, and the stars and planets were to align in perfect harmony, I think my H would still stand immovable because rebuilding this would take an immense about of humility (even though, like you, I have been gentle and patient and kind...the courseness you hear in my posts are only vented online, and never seen or heard by my H...I am practically Donna Reed in my pumps and pearls and a gentle, loving smile when he is around). And even if he was able to muster the humble attitude it would take to confess the utter WRONGNESS of his recent choices, I think my H would chose instead to wallow in the guilt and wrongness of it. In other words, if he did have the humility it would take, he would take it to the other extreme and almost punish himself (like a all-consuming pity party), rather than work to repair the M.

I can now see a pattern that is not unique to this situation. It is a willingness on my part to pick up the slack (financially, emotionally, with housework and yardwork, child rearing, etc., etc., etc.) and a willingness on his part to let me. Only the thing is, when it comes to the A and our M, it will take HARD work on BOTH our parts...and I wonder if he has it in him. And I wonder if some of that inability is my fault (I never really made him have it in him...because I would just step in and try to save the day).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is just feeling sorry for himself. He wants to step out of the arena he has created for himself, and hide. And I am going to release him to that. He can no longer blame me for trying to pressure him to do anything. I am setting him free. Because that is the only way I can know if he is mine. The old proverb, you know. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do know what you are saying. And I think you are right. And I think the same premise holds in even my situation (it will take a total release on my part if I ever want to break that cycle where my H doesn't take responsibility...because it will only be when he pulls himself up, makes his own decisions, wants and desires to rebuild the M all on his own without any influence from me, that it will be the indicator of meaningful change in our dynamic...because it has to come from him, on his own time, with every cell of his body, before it will be enough to get past all the "water under the bridge." Before it will be enough for HIM to believe that it is the path for him.

Let us know your progress. And here's to the next step in your recovery! God Bless!

<small>[ March 14, 2004, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: ChristyV ]</small>

Sisters, I know what you mean about your H's. My WH up till today still hides his head under the sand. He denies A, refuses to tlak to anybody. But still acts like a stupid alien. I am angry at him. Why do i want this man back? I really have no idea.

L&H

That is the way feel most days. I am just having a terrible time in my emotional spirit these last couple of days. I wish I could just pick myself up off the floor. I seem to be stuck there. I don't know why or how. I thought I would feel better today but I don't. I just upped my anti-ds. The DR. said I could, but I just hadn't yet. I have decided it is time, the depression is killing me to the core. I didn't even want to get out of bed this morning. I laid there for 3 hours awake. That is sad! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I am really trying, I really am!

NY, hang in there. I never got your e-mail. If you give your phone #, I can call you. we need to encourage each other.

My H disappeared from last night 9pm still didn't show up. I don't care. I may just call his parents to tell them the info.

SS,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't want a future with someone else. I want a future with my H. I am just trying to find that man again.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep, me too!

ChristyV

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I can now see a pattern that is not unique to this situation. It is a willingness on my part to pick up the slack (financially, emotionally, with housework and yardwork, child rearing, etc., etc., etc.) and a willingness on his part to let me. Only the thing is, when it comes to the A and our M, it will take HARD work on BOTH our parts...and I wonder if he has it in him. And I wonder if some of that inability is my fault (I never really made him have it in him...because I would just step in and try to save the day).
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep, me too!

L&H,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Why do i want this man back? I really have no idea. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep, I ask myself that too! (But I still want him.)

NY,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> the depression is killing me to the core. I didn't even want to get out of bed this morning. I laid there for 3 hours awake. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you only knew the number of days I've done that over the last few months (maybe not 3 hours on a work day, but definitely long enough to make myself very late. I was just numb, and drained. I didn't want to do anything by lay there.

To all: I know this doesn't make your pain or mine any better, and I desparately wish none of us were in this situation because it's agonizing. I get this fear every now and then "What if I have this pain forever." It's an awful thought. I know I won't, that eventually something will give one way or another. But until then, we all need to really support each other. In cases for some of us, this is probably the best support system we have right now.

All of you take care. I pray for you.

LL

Gee it's tough to start a Plan B when before now you've not been "allowed" to fulfill many of his EN's.

A turning point for my H and I was when I broke down and apologized for my part in the downfall of our M...the DJ and Angry Outbursts. And I struggled VERY HARD to eliminate them (still do).

Plan A is very hard for the BS because it seems so foreign("what? I have to be nice to this person that has caused me so much pain? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> )
And then after all that...to completely cut him off with Plan B. But Plan A is to help the WS see what your M couldbe like, to get a GREAT iomage of you before Plan B...Plan B is to protect the love you have left and let the A move to a historical demise.

When I talked with my WH I apologized for the LBs in our M, and specified which ones and told him how I was going to try to change.

Now that seems pretty wimpy, but I was NEVER guilty of being wimpy in our M...maybe too strong. So when I wrote my Plan B letter I tried to drop as many LU in his LoveBank as I could. And although I loved him I had to protect the love I still had for him...I spelled out what life would be like...visitation, NC, living apart, etc. and spelled out he would need to do to return to our family (NC with OW, counseling, meds, honesty...)


Plan B should come as a shock...so maybe 1 letter would be better...or other letters before now, but humbled letters, ones that describe your pain, your regret for past choices you've made.

You are a wonderful person, I've really admired your advice on here. But ultimately you know your situation best <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />