That is my question right now...After counselling on Friday night he told the counsellor that he was finished. He hadn't loved me for a long time and he wanted to move on. It is too hard to give up the OW cuz she gives him things that I dont. Sex, etc...Ok, that can change. He displayed to the therapist that thru the years of marriage he only did things for ME not him. He didn't want to hurt me anymore. Then when I told the therapist that he always said he was sorry after fights, etc...she asked him if that was fair to give me false hope. AFter DDay almost 2 weeks ago he has held me non stop and kissed me. I told the therapist that and she said again, do not give me false hope. he said that he would stop doing that, because he just could not go back to a "loveless" marriage. Well...as soon as we left the office I lost it. I was crying uncontrollably and he again held me and told me there may be hope. Why does he do that if he honestly does not want me back???

He has not had C with OW in one week. But he has called her on a daily basis. They speak for about 2 minutes. He says she loves him. He has also revealed to me that she was after him months ago....

The reason the affair happened was because we did fall out of love so to speak. We weren't intimate and he needed that from somone. He says, and I do believe him, that had we had the intimacy it would never have happened. that has now changed. I have done everything I can to show him how much I love him and how much he means to me.

He is staying at somone's house right now. A frined of his who is going thru a divorce. The house is empty, unfullfilled and creepy. This house once had love in it, just like ours did.

Not only does he hold me when I am distraught, but he comes home early in the morning (before work) and right after work and stays til about 9:00. We hold each other and kiss. As soon as he leaves I lose it again. I just cant help it. I miss him so much. I hate this house with out him here. It is not a home anymore without him. Everything reminds me of him and how happy we used to be.

He keeps saying he will always be around. this is not a visious cycle for us. We have been more loving in the past two weeks than in years. he keeps saying I will never have to work, that he will always support me and the boys. He will be here on a daily basis to help me with the kids. I dont want that. I want him to live with us. I hate that bed without him. I just hate waking up in the middle of the night without him. I hate the fact taht he thinks of another woman.

Does he or does he NOT love me? Is this really a fog he is in? Will he ever realize that I am a good person and that I CAN love him the way he wants. Or will he only stay astray and never realize what we CAN have and not what we did have. He is so afraid that it will go back to a "loveless" marraige and we will be like roommates again. I am determined not to let that happen. But how can I get him to come back to his senses. I am reading Love Busters. he is reading Surviving the Affair.

Should I go to Plan B and cut him off altogether. I dont want to do that until I know for sure I have showed him all that I can be. How often does plan B or Plan A work? If he really did NOT love me, would he be doing this? Or is he just playing me? I dont know how long I can go on trying to please him and wait for him to come to his senses. It is just killing me seeing him leave each night after a day of love and togetherness. Please help me! Thanks!

Oh no, don't you DARE go into Plan B! You have lots of work ahead of you right now. It sounds like he hasn't felt fulfilled for years and you now have a great opportunity to fill those needs and attract him back to you.


I think that he does love you, but that he is just very confused right now. He is saying all the things that a WS in the throes of an addictive affair says so don't take it seriously. But DO listen to what he says about filling his needs. He needs to be ASSURED that you will fill his needs in the future so you need to demonstrate that pattern to him now.

Let him hug you all he wants. That is also fulfilling to him. Sadly, your C does not understand how confused your H is and is taking literally everything he says. As you can see, your H is not doing it to give you false hope, but because he WANTS TO. Let him do it!

You might want to consider getting a counselor who UNDERSTANDS the dynamics of an affair, though. I don't believe this one does and is actually encouraging divorce. You need a PRO-MARRIAGE counselor, like Harley. They are extremely successful.

Get to work on attracting him back. That means no more crying, begging, accusing, etc. Everytime you do that, you just make the OW look more attractive than you. Now is the time to make yourself look attractive.

Lastly, your situation sounds very hopeful so don't despair. Read everything you can about Plan A on this website and do EVERYTHING in your power to end the affair. Expose, expose, expose! Is the OW married? If so, expose to her H.

<small>[ March 13, 2004, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Stay in Plan A. He is definately in the fog. But all of this is to your advantage. Don't give up now.

Please run to the bookstore and get Surviving an Affair and His Needs, Her Needs. They are very helpful books!

Thank you! WS is reading Surviving the Affair...or he is supposed to be anyway. I am going to ask him when he gets home if he is or not and if he is not, I am going to ask for it back so I can read it. They only had ONE left at the bookstore and I do have one coming in from Amazon. I bought His needs/Her needs last night and I am also reading Love Busters.

Please, Please Please, keep those comments coming. Thank you! I need ALL the support I can get right now!

momto3boys

Here are some of my observations regarding WS's and the FOGGY existance they are living in.


* Peculiar and wavering state of mind. Attribute this to their own selfish desire to continue the A, in spite of knowing its wrong, and, also the realization that huge amounts of damage have been done to their marriage, and they have NO IDEA how to deal with it.

* Deep, DEEP down inside their hearts, they are experiencing two diametrically (SP?) opposed feelings of grief. One for the marriage they damaged, the other for the OP they don't want to give up. Again, they don't know how to process both feelings at the same time.

* Emotional detachment. Knowing the pain they have caused, they are much more inclined to hide from the pain, rather than face it straight up. This allows them to keep the fantasy alive.

* Argumentative and combative. WS's can be an endless fountain of LB's and disrespectful remarks designed solely to make the BS angry and respond with a vengence. This allows them to stay emotionally detached, and shift the BLAME for the affair having taken place to the BS.

* Sullen, quiet, withdrawn. All this a result of a combination of the above items. Look how much of an emotional drain it is to be the BS. The WS has an equal amount of emotional drama to deal with, it's just way different than what we, as the BS are going through.

* Complaints of being smothered. Of course. BS's are in Plan A, doing all the right things, and at the same time they are seeking answers, remorse, groveling (LOL), revenge, love, EN's. BS's are also seeking some sense of the WS explaining the affair and returning to the marriage. And this is what the BS's expect in the first 36 hours after DDay. Way too many emotions are in play, and both parties have needs that cannot be properly met by the other for several weeks, until the fervor of emotions wains, and people are thinking with clear minds. All of these things take time, and effort. Words to a foggy WS are like throwing cotton balls at a crocodile.

* WS's are all about them. It's me, me, me for the longest time. It's still all about the selfish mode they assumed to allow the A to happen and continue. Plan A, sort of keeps that in place. That's where care and caution need to come into play, so that as the fog lifts for a moment, a BS may have to employ "tough love", without LB's and DJ's. Timing and delivery are everything during this stage.

* Continued contact. Most of the posts I've seen here refer to more than one promise of NC before it truly takes place. Setbacks are common. My WW had 4 breeches before I believed this last "promise" might be the real deal. It would appear you have some work to do in this area!

* Lack of interest in learning how to recover. They are in such a state of denial, among other things, that they "don't need to recover". I finally "coerced" WW to read SAA aloud with me, but it was just a courtesy to me that she did it. It meant nothing to her, because at the time, she was still living the fantasy.

All these things seem to be pretty typical. I'm sure other posters can add more. Time, time, time, is the final answer, but the time spent needs to be filled with carefully executed Plan A, or Plan B, depending on the circumstances. Mix in some boundry setting, so the WS has some consequences for errors in His ways, and hang on for the ride.

Make most of the times that you have together pleasant for both of you, and choose NOT to talk about the A, recovery, OP. Those talks should be semi-occasional, and not drawn out to become confrontational.

I don't know if any of these things might explain some of what you are going through, but I bet it might. You need to grow an emotional "coat of armor" for this withdrawal. Remember, you were at one time the love of his life. The swampy FOG creature speaking to you now is NOT that man. Don't let his words penetrate your armor. Disattach from his hurtful words. They mean NOTHING. It's not your H speaking. Continue Plan A with a vengence, as it's the fan that will slowly blow the fog away.

Stay strong and energized. You can survive this.

SD

Mom,
I read the other post on you S's teacher. It was great. As a youth coach, I have seen the horrible affects on kids when parents split. I even went through a father's suicide b/c the W refused to reconcile and he gave up. These are wounds that never heal. It is one reason I refused to leave or give up on my M.

Your question has been answered. It is obviously way too early to give up. I encourage you to do the opposite of your feelings. Choose to give it time. It takes time to break the addiction. You can use the time to work on yourself and what you need to do to bring him back. He only thinks he is in love. I was told the same things while my W was in the fog. Don't believe them. You can't contol his behavior, but you can influence it. Commit to the next 6 months to show him love. He will see it.

Plan B is very risky. I always feel that plan B is the last resort when a good plan A fails. The light of day of the A and the reality of what he is doing is usually all that is needed. Now is your time to become strong. Don't cling or pursue in a way that will push him further away. Let reality and God work, it takes time and patience on your part.

He is making an effort to be with you. There will be alot more pain until it gets better. I don't want to discourage you, though. Just keep working every day to get to recovery, that s/b your goal and your focus. Almost all A's end and it sounds like this will too. At some point he may suprise you and stay, just keep loving and accepting him. Let him know that the contact hurts you and you don't condone it. But right now you may have to accept it for a time until he wants to come back. When he is back in the home, your opportunity will increase to show him the love you both have been missing.

Hang in there, it will get better and you will get stronger.

Christ's Love
Roman121

Thank you all so much for all the comments thus far. The only thing I have been doing is showing him how much he means to me. I TRY not to bring OW up in conversation...but sometimes, when I KNOW he has called her it slips. It is almost like he talks to me, then immediately calls her as to hear HER voice last. I track the calls online that is how it seems to be happeneing. I have also noticed that he is the first one to call her each day, not the other way around. She doesn't seem to be the one initiating the calls, he does. Why? I just dont understand.

The thing that hurts the most is that he seems to really believe that he never really loved me, that the only reason he married me was for ME, the only reason he had kids was for ME, the only reason he has stayed was for ME...HUH??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I will do this as long as it takes to win his love back and to show him that I am a good wife...But he keeps on saying "whatever happens" or "I just dont know if I can love you again" or "I am trying to love you"...I am so afraid to ask him "are you doing this for me or for you" cuz I know the answer will be for me.

The contact with the OW is killing me. Why does he have to call her as soon as he leaves the house or as soon as he gets off the phone with me...he talked to her 3 times this morning at our sons baseball practice. My DS5 kept asking him "is that your girlfried" "why dont you just come back to us daddy, and love mommy again" "we need you" I asked him how this made him feel and he said "I am not doing this to hurt you or the kids and it makes me feel bad"..

I was doing laundry today and started to cry cuz I MISS doing his laundry! stupid I know! But that is just part of my routine. I would do his laundry. Now I dont have any of his things to do.

I am just so darn confused and just wish I could shake some sense into this man. this is not the sort of man who would go from me to her...I dont think anyway....I know had we BEEN intimate this would not have happened, but I dont know abuott that now. how can I be sure he doesn't sleep with her again.

Mom, you should talk to him about how much it hurts you when he calls the OW. Don't hide that. Just don't denigrate the OW.

And just IGNORE the FOGTALK about how he never loved you. You know better. That is just typical fog talk from a person whose mind is lost to an addiction.

You can probably expect to be in Plan A around 3 months and if he hasn't ended contact yet, then its time to go to Plan B. Otherwise he will sit on the fence forever having his cake and eating it too.

It is very important that you start doing things to END this affair. Such as EXPOSING IT. Exposing it helps it end quicker. It takes the fantasy aspect away. Who have you told? Is this OW married? Do they work together? What about his family and your family? HAve you told them?

Melody, I have told him time and time again how much it hurts! The OW is NOT married...She is 29 y/o and has a 9 or 10 y/o son. WH and OW work together once a week. WS is reading the books...We just got one in today called "myth of the greener grass", but I do not know if he will read that one as it seems to be a "christian" book and he is not a christian, although I am.

This is what happened today. It was going so nicely today. I was doing laundry and he had taken DS5 to baseball practice. After telling him this monring how much I missed doing his laundry, he did not comment on it at all. Except to say "gosh, I never thought I would hear you say THAT"...

Well, when he got home I told him if he wanted to go get his laundry I would be happy to do it...he paused and said "dont worry, I've got other people doing it for me.

OMG! You mine as well have taken the knife and stuck it in and turned it. I KNEW it was her. I said "YOU"VE GOT HER DOING YOUR LAUNDRY NOW"...he said "well, she called and asked and I said yes, so she came by the house (the house he is staying, only about 1/2 mile up the road) and got it for me"...I said "when was this" He said "Thursday"...I was with him on Thursday.

I dont know when she could have come by that house. I was with him from about 1:30 on AT THAT HOUSE! She had to have come by before that...OR she was in the house when I rang the bell. It took him a while to answer the door. He said he was on the pot when he answered. Anyway, after the laundry thing I told him that I dont have a chance in H*** if he is continuing to see her behind my back and calling her. He said he just cannot stop calling her that he cares too much for her. They have sooooooooo much in common. yea right, whatever.! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I asked him flat out "did you have sex with her", he said NO, but I dont know about that. I continued with asking him if he was still going to sleep with her. He says NO, not right now...I am not sure what that is supposed to mean. I just dont have a chance do I with her in the picture?

I calmed down (I never really got mad, just very hurt) I came into the study where he was and touched his shoulder. I told him I would never stop loving him and that NO-ONE would ever love him the way I do or as much as I do...I looked him in the eye and said "hopfully one day you will come out of this fog" he in turn said "maybe so, but you may not be here for me then"..I said "I will always be here for you"...I paused and said "I LOVE YOU"!

What else can I or should I have done in this situation...I just absolutley kills me to know I am now in competion to do his LAUNDRY for goodness sake. I mean, I have done his laundry for 12 years now. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I keep forgetting to answer this question ya'll keep asking me...I have told everyone. My friends, most of his friends already knew. I have told my parents and his co workers. I went to her place of empoyment last weekend and told them. WH is a DR, has his own clinic, also Director of 4 nursing homes and ER doc on the side. This OW works as a nurse in one of his nursing homes. He rounds there once a week and refuses to get his PA to do the rounds for him. he says he lives two lives. ONe at work and one at home. DUH! Isn't that how most marriages are??? And that this OW has soooo much in common with him. WHATEVER!

I am contmplating councelling with Dr. Harley...but I have tot think that one thru and thru!

PLEASE consider counseling with the Harleys! They are no nonsense counselors with a very high success rate - they don't beat around the bush and often achieve in a few sessions what others can't achieve in 20 sessions. They are PRO-MARRIAGE counselors who specialize in infidelity. It might be the best investment you ever make. They wouldn't encourage a WS to act on a foggy notion, such as your C's advice to "not lead you on." The Harleys would see that for what its worth and not make the situation worse.

Melody...What exactly do the sessions entail? I have looked on the homepage, but it doesnt exactly say what they do or what to expect...What if WH does not agree to telephone counselling. After our session on Thursday he pretty much said he was moving on and was not going to work on it anymore. Then after he saw me breakdown, literally, he either felt guilty or really does want to work on it. I am not sure he would agree to the counselling! Should I wait and go thru Plan A. Right now he is obviously refusing to stop calling her. It is so hard for me to give, give, give all my love and know that he is not loving me back right now. Knowing his love, so to speak, is going to another woman...

What else can I do to show him I am the one an dnot her. Cards? Balloon grams at work? he doesn't check his email consistently, but I could send him faxes at work. I would love to write him a mushy love letter! Maybe have it mailed to him or something! hehe

Mom, you don't have to get your H in on it now. The Harley's can assess your situation and guide you in the right direction. They will help you develop your OWN Plan A that would work best for your situation. They have an 800 # on the home page and they do phone sessions. You can read all about them on the home page. Harley also has a radio show.

WH just left! He doesn't want to work on it anymore. Now what? I am a basket case, but i completely kept my cool! What is going to happen now. I said he could see the kids next saturday...if this is how he wants it, he has to live with the reality. I told him that I hope she was worht the family. he said he just doesn't love me anymore.

I told him to think of us occassionally. The kids are a mess. DS8 cries at school, DS5 is out of whack, DS3 is horrible right now. His reaction...They'll get over it!

HELP!!!

mom, please just calm down, he is acting just like most WS's act. This is far from over! He is very confused right now and doesn't know what he wants. Tomorrow he will feel differently and then his feelings will change the next day!

Please read the book Surviving an Affair ASAP so you can understand this roller coaster ride he is on right now. You will drive yourself crazy if you react to his every up and down. This is going to be a rocky ride, but you will be just fine in the long run.

See, his affair can't possibly last so the key is to just hang on while it rides out and don't do any damage in the meantime.

You did GREAT keeping your cool in front of him!! That is so important for you to keep your cool and just come here and vent to us.

Oh Melody...This is just killing me. I posted another thread on it. I am rerading the book right now. I am on chapter 4...but how can I go on with Plan A if he is GONE Now. I wonder if this is really the right thing...but if he wants it that way, it has to be reality.!

Mom, he won't stay gone. You can do Plan A just as well with limited contact. Just hang in there, like I said, this situation is likely to change from day to day as his moods swing.

I know this is painful to hear, but the fantasy won't wear off of this affair unless he is allowed to see her with all her warts. You are worried about contact, however, contact is what often helps the affair die out.

Right now he has a completely unrealistic view of her. Once he starts spending time with her he will quickly see that she does, in fact, have MANY warts. [I mean, we are talking about a caliber of person who goes after married men, so we are not talking high caliber people here]

It won't take long for him to start seeing the bad side of OW. And it won't take long for her to start worrying about the wife and lovebusting him with jealousies. He will quickly see that she can't possibly meet all of his needs.

And as you work the MB principles - with no lovebusters - you will look more and more attractive to him. This will draw him back to you as the affair fizzles out.

Please consider consulting with the Harleys. They could probably help you develop a plan after they assess your situation.

Melody! I want to believe you so bad! But when he says "he just doesn't love me anymore" or that "he fell out of love a long time ago" it is so believeable. I just cringe and my skin aches.

He has known this OW for 2 years on a professional level. Does that make a difference in the 'warts' issue thing. They have only just recently gotten to know each other in a deeper level. I know I have to be strong. Do I call him, or wait for him to call me? What if he comes by the house? What do I tell him? That he is not welcome unless he is ready to commit to this marraige 100%? I hate this. I just hate it! thanks Melody and everyone else for you continued support!

<small>[ March 14, 2004, 08:35 AM: Message edited by: momto3boys ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by momto3boys:
[QB] Melody! I want to believe you so bad! But when he says "he just doesn't love me anymore" or that "he fell out of love a long time ago" it is so believeable. I just cringe and my skin aches. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mom, that is what EVERY WS says! They rewrite history [I have been miserable for years, blah, blah, blah] in order justify the affair. What is happening is that he doesn't "FEEL" love right now because he is detached from you and is in a fantasy affair. An affair is an addiction. Don't pay it any mind, PLEASE! When he comes out from under the spell of the addiction he will be telling you he can't believe he said that!

He doesn't know this OW at all. HE has just known the best side of her. In the meantime, don't call him. If he comes by the house, be polite and be as civil as possible. Try to preoccupy yourself, as best you can, with other things, such as reading, reading, reading and maybe working out.

Try and figure out what his needs are and how you can best fulfill them when you have an opportunity. Try to think of anything you can do to ATTRACT him back, such looking your best, showing him admiration, etc. Have you read about emotional needs yet and determined what his emotional needs are?


I know you are dying, but this is not doomed, Mom! Just hang in there.