so, ok...I have been reading all of your posts for the past few days...posted a couple of responses on a couple of threads...and just need to know something...

What do you do if OW is Hs ex-W??? Is there even ANY hope whatsoever...at all? I found this out sometime ago...wish I had known about this site back then...

And this first question does not even BEGIN to indicate the mess that I think our marriage is in..its only the tip of the iceberg....

edited to add:

and yes, children are involved...I will give more info as you ask (if anyone asks) right now I dont think I could emotionally handle typing it all out.

<small>[ March 16, 2004, 10:23 PM: Message edited by: JessieBear ]</small>

Oh, I think that really complicates things. Because how is he going to have NC with her if kids are involved?

Hmmm. I will have to think about this one. How long has this been going on?

He will always have to have contact with her, as there are children involved. Since everything came out--he has only dealt with her when absolutely necessary concerning his custody/visitation...any time they must see eachother (pick ups and drop offs) either I am with him or I actually do it for him.

He says that I shouldnt have any doubts...(HAH--easy for him to say) but I am plagued by doubts so much more than he knows. I dont even understand how he could do this to me, when in fact, SHE used to cheat on him, she had numerous EMA and ONS while THEY were married--he KNOWS the pain it can cause.

And yes, there is even an "OC" that was born because of his cheating with her...my H does not have visitation with her--never has. The child is still an infant and while xW/OW had hoped that this affair/OC would cause us to split and him to go back to her...well, obviously it hasnt. She has asked him to visit with the child only one time...he told me he has no desire to, and since then xW/OW seems happy to have this child to herself (the baby is a girl).

I am torn...for many reasons, as you can see...as I said, I wish I had known of this site at the time-- when all of this had happened...but I also know that when all of this happened...I told my H...if he didnt want to work things out with me and go back to her,
then I would accept it...I didnt beg or plead with him to stay, etc...he chose to work this out and he chose no contact with the baby...I have asked him how he will someday explain it to her, or to his sons...he states that he will just have to find a way...he states that he feels it is more detrimental to a child to be in a situation where one of her parents feels resentment to her--which he says almost describes his feelings, (he cant quite describe his feelings toward her...he just claims ambivalence)...he states he just has no desire to be with the child. He is of course paying Child Support...

I should also state that this affair happened for over a month in the beginning of our marriage when I had not relocated to be with him yet, since I had to go to court to get permission to move my daughters from a previous marriage out of our state, so that we could move in with him. The baby is almost a year old now.

(edited to add:

I realize since a child was conceived out of this that my post may belong under Children/Pregnancy>>>if it needs to be moved I hope the moderator will do so...I just thought I should ask my first question here...since this situation is so complicated)

<small>[ March 17, 2004, 07:27 AM: Message edited by: JessieBear ]</small>

someone help me please....

if I have posted this in the wrong place please tell me where to post it...

Dang, girl, that is complicated!

I don't know where you should post, and I don't know what to tell you, either.

But, I think you are in the right place to find the information you are seeking.

Hang tight and someone who has some answers will be along soon, I promise.

HUGS! SS

JB,
You are a BS and belong hear. Your circumstance is extremely complex. This is not typical and most here have no experience to share with you. I'm a little confused on your post. Does you WH know what he wants?. Obviously your whole relationship was based on lies from him. His FWW just couldn't be more selfish by trying to keep him. Has he shown any change since his D. It is so difficult to discern anything b/c your M is fairly new and unstable. One thing I believe in is reconciliation with your original S. So what I mean by change is did he learn anything from his first W and how she treated the M? I guess before we can help more, we will need to understand where he stands. Is he torn between the two of you? I would assume he has alot of unresolved issues from his first M. Keep posting.

Christ's Love,
Roman121

JB, sorry I can't help you. But I will support you 100%. Stay here, good advice will come.

Believe it or not...I know he is a wonderful man...other than this, I dont think I could ask for more. He isnt torn, he wants this marriage...it is unbelievably complicated...as I was in another state, I dont know and cant supply details...I was always able to reach him by phone (his home or his cell)...I blame myself for not being with him...obviously I wasnt able to phys. satisfy him from a different state...the "affair" was 6 weeks long...THEIR situation was weird in that since she was so "scared" that he had gotten married to me and was asking questions about getting custody of the boys, she decided to file an emergency restraining order on him so that he couldnt see his boys at all--she told the judge she "feared" he would abduct them--for a while he was unable to have contact with the boys at all (this was traumatic to him because he was used to seeing his boys often, and during his marriage to her he is the one who was the primary caretaker when he wasnt at work, since she was always too busy going out or sleeping it off)

What happened is that she decided to stop "using the boys against him" and disregarded the restraining order and let him start picking up the boys again... He jumped at this chance, but never insisted that she remove the restraining order...would happen was that he would go to his ex's house to pick up his two sons...upon returning them his exW would ask him to "put the kids to bed" he would and would then end up in bed with her also....once it happened once, it was "do it again or I will tell your Wife"...OR worse, "if you dont, I will call the cops and report you violating the restraining order ...he KNEW it was something that would soooner or later have to stop as we were making plans for me to move there...Finally, she demanded that HE tell me or she would (she knew all along how to contact me)...and thought it would give me reason to leave him...the day he called me, she also demanded that we put her on a 3 way line so that she could see for herself that I knew...I told her he had told me, and that I was married to him and I want going anywhere. She then stated she would call in the restraining order...at which point we were told that since she invited him to her apartment she had nullified it herself (which was a big No Duh)...At this point, 6 weeks after it had started she said she was pregnant...the whole time she was pregnant she would say it was, then say it wasnt his child...when the child was born we demanded a paternity test which she refused to do until recently...and it was his...as you can see in my previous posts, all that has happened since then...

I know he should have never done what he did...I KNOW it is on him, but my heart is in anguish because I wasnt here...it wasnt a "MARRIAGE" in every sense of the word, not me coming to see him once a month...if only, if only...

After everything was out in the open (D-Day is it?) he gave me any and all info. I requested (or even if I didnt request it) access to all passwords, having me on the phone during pick ups and drop offs, recording phone conversations when he would call his xW...if he was playing softball (he would "sub"? on a team when one of his friends couldnt make it) he would have the cell phone on him--if he was outfield he would have a friend in the stands answer the phone and keep me online until he could come in to get the phone...he would even call me when he was at work if he had to step away from his desk to use the restroom (I had to finally tell him to stop that)...

And he chose to stay in our marriage...I told him...I wasnt relocated yet, we had not "moved in" yet, I had not resigned my job yet...HE could stay with her and try...I was willing to give him a simple divorce and would walk away...and he insisted on not doing that...HE wanted us to work it out...I wanted to as well, but had to make sure he was doing it because he really loved me...

So I am here...and we have minimal contact with xW...they dont even attend teacher conf. together, he requests a seperate for he and I...he still records all phone calls...in fact lets me deal with her a lot of the time...I still have all passcodes to everything...we only have one car, so the days he works...I drop him off and pick him up...otherwise we are together almost all of the time. And he doesnt want contact with the little girl...and I am fine with that (though I know it must make he and I look like cruel people)...

I just dont know...how to get rid of these doubts...which I dont think he really knows I still harbor...sometimes I cry my eyes out...WHY did she have to do this...SHE told me herself, when she was pregnant...'he just has to take a look at this baby once its born, and he will be back with me'...she was furious when the child was first born that he didnt want to spend time with her...nor did he even once the DNA tests came back...

I know that now I am rambling...and if anyone got to the end of this...I thank you...I just need to know...is there any hope for us...is this doable?

<small>[ March 17, 2004, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: JessieBear ]</small>

JessieBear,

Like everyone else has said, yours is a situation not many (any?) of us have experience with but from what you posted in your last post, I'd say this is SO TOTALLY DOABLE.

Just look at all you have going for you! Clearly your H is totally committed to you and your M. He is absolutely 100% open with you, he clearly understands how painful this was to you and is doing everything in his power (and then some... calling before he goes to the restroom? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ). That's actually kinda sweet to the point of ridiculous, isn't it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Obviously NC is not possible, and that is the big hurdle. I think you guys had a great idea of separate teacher conferences, having you pick up or drop off the boys, or accompany your H. I think this kind of approach will serve you well as you deal with contact now and in the future.

You already have a good handle on *why* the A occurred, why it continued. He's already doing everything he can do to reassure you and help you feel secure. The only thing you guys need now is time - really. It takes a long time, a couple of years or more, for those awful over-the-shoulder jitters to calm down. You *will* get there.

Have you guys read Surviving an Affair or Fall in Love, Stay in Love? That might help you with communication, furthering your recovery, and building a strong marriage for the future. I'd also suggest you TELL your H about your fears. Be completely open and honest with him; you don't have to be accusing, just ask him for understanding and support. He'll be glad to provide that. Right now he knows you're upset but since you're keeping a closed mouth about it he's not free to soothe and console you. TALK TO HIM.

I may get blasted for this, but I think your H should visit his D, too. Think about it. Visiting her won't mean more or less contact with xW/OW. It *will* mean his D will grow up knowing who her Mom and Dad are - the exact same parents her brothers have. Yet her Dad visits the brothers and not her. Why? What's wrong with her? Later on, when she does the math and realizes they were D and he was already M to you when she was born, she'll know she was the product of an A and she'll know that's why she is "dirty" and not worthy of visits. I think she should be included fully and wholly, just like her brothers. It'd be different if your H could walk of into the sunset, never to be heard from again, but right now the little girl is being ostracized because of something she had NO control over. I think not visiting her is a really, really bad idea.

OK, OK, sounds like your DH is wanting to work this out. Can you set up a 3rd party to act as a go between for the custody and visitations and any other parenting housekeeping? This would minimize contact?

What are you both doing for your M? What are you doing to make your M affair-proof so it won't happen again? Have you filld out the EN questionnaires and the LB questionnaires and talked it over...that is a GREAT start.

I agree with TurtleH. here.

My first reaction was that the OC should be allowed to know and have a relationship with her father. The child is an innocent victim here.
If your H is already in contact with the other children it shouldn't really change too much.
It bothers me a little that you are saying that HE does not want contact with this child.

As for your Marriage, I also agree that you are on the right track and although there is still work and healing to be done, it is going in the right direction. Are you in MC?

Please get advice about the OC. Both your H and the child have a right to a relationship.

Thanks for your replies...I am so relieved that I have received responses...

I agree that we have to get MC...and that I need to open up to my H. Once in a while I have reactions to (triggers?) and I get angry and he knows that it is the situation...but he feels that we have made great strides...but in a way I feel that I was so busy trying to assure myself that HE was choosing me, that I had not "emotionally blackmailed" him to stay--that I never begged him to choose me, I think that my approach to him seemed to make it appear that I was stronger that I felt...that I got "over it" quickly...Does that make sense??? And he did such a good job of being completely honest (yes calling me from work to say "If you call and Im not at my desk, its cause Im in the restroom" actually WAS so sweet AND ridiculous) that I didnt have any doubts that he wanted to make our marriage work...as I said, at the time--other than our love and our vows (which I am in no way minimizing) we had nothing really "tying" us together. I think now though, that the dust has settled...I am finally allowing myself to start feeling the fear and anxiety...and you are right, I should tell him...I just think it would devastate him to think that after all his work, after all he has done to make me feel secure...that I would feel like this.

As for the child, no he doesnt want to have visitation with her...I admit (most ashamedly) that I actually prefer it like that. I am not encouraging him to change or rethink his feelings...and I actually fear what I would do if he chose to have contact...I wouldnt leave him, but I wonder how I would act toward that child--would my resentment of the situation, cause me to treat her differently? I know it makes no sense--her two brothers come here every week...He (I dont think) knows how I feel about the child...he assumes that I am just backing him in his decision...actually at one point he told me that he feared my reaction to his desire for no contact--he thought I would think badly of him....

Sometimes I think...why is this happening???WHY...

Thank you all for your advice...we will also complete the questionairre...

Jessie,
thanks for the clarifications. I really feel for you. The pull of the original W and family is tough competition. The good thing for you is it sounds like his FW is still very manipulative and selfish. He will see it. Don't give in too easy. Be the right person for him and he will see the clear contrast between you and her.

It sounds like he wants to be with you. I understand your fears and doubts. As far as the child, give it time. Right now you don't want him to have any reason to be with FW. Maybe you can work out a way to be with him on the visits. Since the child has part of him, maybe someday when the pain fades, you will see it differently. For now, do all you can to keep them apart. Be strong and positive and keep coming here for support.

Christ's Love,
Roman121

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think now though, that the dust has settled...I am finally allowing myself to start feeling the fear and anxiety...and you are right, I should tell him...I just think it would devastate him to think that after all his work, after all he has done to make me feel secure...that I would feel like this.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's not unusual for fears to surface after everything is "all right". Only when things begin to be safe can we allow ourselves to see what might have been too big for us to face earlier.

You THINK it would devastate him.
Isn't that rather presumptuous of you? A disrespectful judgment perhaps? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Naturally he doesn't want to hear you condemning him for his actions for all eternity. You're not doing that, though. You're going to him saying "Honey, I feel scared and vulnerable, and I need you to help me. It is thanks to all your efforts and hard work that I finally feel safe enough to acknowledge how great my fear is, and I know with your help I will learn to face it and work through it."

Why doesn't your H want to see his daughter? He may be taking that stance because he assumes it's what you want. I think the two of you should examine that.

Thank you all who replied...I am finding a lot of comfort here...I wish I had found this place sooner...

yes, it is unfair for me to keep what I am feeling from my H...and to predict what his response will be...

As for my H, not wanting contact...he has said, it is a reminder to him of how he almost lost me and my girls...I agree with Roman121, the pull of his former W and their kids was strong--xW gloated at the time of D-Day, letting me know that she was his weakness...that everytime they split that he would come back for the kids...thats what happened with their 2nd child...throughout his entire marriage his W carried on with other men...we know this new infant is his, he suspects his middle one may not be, (they had split and but came back months later because she was pregnant--7 months after reconciling, she gave birth to a 10 lb preemie--his family told him--hello, a 10lb preemie?)...and they got married in the first place because they got pregnant with #1...

He says he feels almost resentment for the child and would think it would be unfair to both of them to have contact....maybe its his guilt...I dont know...he says that just the fact that it is a girl, and that his xW is so conniving and manipulative...that everytime he would look at the child he sees his xW as well as his own foolishness--and he is afraid of how his feelings would manifest themselves...I KNOW part of it must be his fear of how I would feel if he had contact...the fact is...honestly I dont desire contact at all...honestly, and I hate myself for it, because I HAVE children of my own...but when I think of OC's existance I feel almost physically ill...and no--I dont feel that way about his boys at all...it seems bizarre even to me...but that is how I feel...and I am afraid of what it would do to me if we started to have contact...I can see myself...retreating into the sidelines...being resentful...finding excuses for not wanting to be there when the child is there...never demanding that he have NC...just not being involved myself...and I KNOW that it would be detrimental to our marriage...

and then at times I think...ok, maybe thats what it is supposed to be...maybe I wasnt supposed to forgive him...maybe the Lord did this, so that I would LET him go and MAYBE (though I have asked him) if I had not forgiven him, MAYBE he would have remarried his xW...and maybe there was a different path for me to take...and sometimes I think maybe thats what I am supposed to do??? am I supposed to leave the picture so that he can have a relationship with this D and maybe they can all be a family again???

<sigggghhh> Do I ask him if his stance on NC is becasue of me? and do I tell hiim that that is what I prefer??? I cant lie to him and tell him that I am fine with contact when in reality I am not fine at all...

I don't know if you have posted on the other child board, but you might want to once in awhile. People there are facing this very issue.

My kid's dad had 2 children that I didn't know about - they were from 2 previous relationships. When I got to know them, I loved them. Granted this was not from an A, but still was a huge shock.

I think some of the people that have been through this will be able to give you good advice.