<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
WOW...you my friend surely are a direct descendant of Venutian Royality...

as in men are from mars and women are from venus...

cause you speak it so well..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

NONE of that is an attack...but I think you would be well served to learn to speak marusian a little better...

Both of the posts you have here...are relevant to my ramblings...so I started a new thread to incoroporate both..because I wanted to address some points in both of them...

none of this is an attack...I mean no malace...for many have struggled with communication blocks....and you are certainly allowed and perhaps should disagree since I am not you...

but for arguements sake... here's my take on some this...

gonna throw different aspects your way...

While KNOWING we can't change anyone but ourselves can be given a lot lip service...BELIEVING we can't change anyone but ourselves is whole other ball-game...

Change is hard...
Change is scary
Change is not always noticed by others immediately
Change is not always noticed by others the way we perceive it should be.
Change is not always rewarded immediatley

Change should not always be motivated by getting a preconceived response....but serves us better when it is made to make us a better person....

Lets start with some basics...

and I am painting with a brush that is way over generalized...and i acknowledge that and apologize for my gross oversimplification...

BUT sometimes we make things a lot harder than they have to be...

1. Men like to fix things...they like when we come to them with a problem or issue and when they can 'fix' it for us....they feel very good about themselves and about their ability to make things better for others...

A lot of things that you are bringing to your husband he can't fix....
he can't...
so I'm gonna bet that leaves him somewhat frustrated....

Sometimes we (venutians) need to clarify in our coummunication that we KNOW they can't fix this...and are just speaking what is on our minds...

Sometimes we have to think before we speak and balance the fairness of what we are saying to our spouses....

I think you really need to look at your expectations from your husband about the information you are telling him...

it is my opinion that you are telling him things for an expected pre-planned response from him and when he does not respond the way you expected you feel let down and rejected....
that is a doomed mission....

we are all better served when we learn to speak and do for others with a no strings attached policy....
that we ourselves change the reason for speaking or doing...

people often say I love you ...for the sole purpose and expectation of getting an I love you too....

when we learn to speak our love...in those three words and in our actions as well with no expectations back....it frees everyone from the pressure...

So lets do your letter first....

here are your subjective placings on him about the letter... (and ofcourse we can only be subjective)....
the letter was OK/good....
but it came with a lot of expectations from you...
here's all the different expectations and judgements you made about him and the letter..

thanks for the response, i fear H is not really reflecting on the note much at all. i do know he liked it, thought it was a good note, but i don't feel like he is really taking it to heart. i

or if it may be too emotional for him to deal with, he really is not good at dealing with his emotions, he has never been one to have much emotional range and has said he feels that range shrinking even more with age

. two nights ago, even though he was not ready to discuss/respond to my note, i did read it to him.
YIKES!! Is that fair..you want him to listen to you...yet when he states he is not ready to discuss...you push on...and decide for him...

again imagine the conversations that might have been spurned from this letter if you didn't hold on so tightly to your own perceptions and expectations..

IF you had written the letter and given it to him with NO expectation of any response...but had done so....for YOU...because you believed in what YOU wanted him to know....and then let him decide how when to respond

i feel good about the talk last night and yet overall i am feeling discouraged this morning. Any help trying to understand why that is would be very welcome.

you feel discouraged because you had a vision in your mind exactly how he should respond
what the outcome would be..etc...

and to be honest...you're hitting him hard with a lot of different issues...

recently when i brought up praying together he got upset and eventually said.. "this is just another thing i (as in him) have to do now because of your problems" he is a very private person and he does not want to pray together. I feel like i am always being kept at arms length here.

You want him to pray with you...which is not bad or wrong...but prayer is a private thing for many people....
and in asking him to...you apply you own perceptions of I am always kept at arms length...

One more thing he feels he can't do..
one moer thing for him to fail at...
and it that fair to him?

Inviting to pray is fine....as long as you invite him with no agenda....

you aren't listiening to what he says..
you apply all of these reasons for his answers that may not be true...

I hate to do this...but i gotta scoot right now..and will definitely post more later...
and I hope you realize that I want to discourse this you..and it is not meant to make you feel that you are wrong...but to help you speak his language...and help you learn to listen to him...

ark

<small>[ March 20, 2004, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: ark^^ ]</small>

bump^^

Hi Ark,

we were at our lake house so i was not near a computer.

thanks for your post, i did not take it as an attack. i know everyone here is just trying to help. with that said... all i could do when i first read this note is want to walk away and cry. out of frustration over myself. discouraged that i am just not really getting anywhere here.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> it is my opinion that you are telling him things for an expected pre-planned response from him and when he does not respond the way you expected you feel let down and rejected....
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">yeah, i would have to agree with you on that one.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">imagine the conversations that might have been spurned from this letter if you didn't hold on so tightly to your own perceptions and expectations..
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you are right. it is a lost opportunity now.

i want to learn to speak his language and learn to listen to him. i really do. i'm so tired of being so in-ept at this relationship. i'm feeling like i am at the end of my rope. i can't take being a such a failure for much longer.

he ended up going out last night, was going to be home by 10 so we would have some time together but didn't get home till 12:30 and was very tired. we were going to spend some time together this afternoon but a friend of his just called and they went out to play raquetball. in all fairness to him, he had previously talked to this guy earlier in the week, so they did have tentative plans. i don't feel like he blew me off, although i am disappointed. he leaves for another trip tommorow at noon and won't be back till tues.

he still wishes i would stop worrying so much and just relax. i really think i am making things worse by trying to confess. but from being at this site, i am so convinced being honest with him is the best way to go. i just don't know anything right now. all i do know is that i am so tired of being a negative in his life.

i am on the verge of being swallowed up in self-pity. i know i can't let that happen. i have to find the strength to keep trying, although i also have to get better at what i am trying. and i have to get more patience. that thing you said about change not being immediately noticed or rewarded is something i need to really take to heart. i need to change myself and my motives to be 100% purely for unselfish reasons. sometimes i really think that is what i'm doing. but in reality i'm way off still, aren't i?