I went to Hs business this morning to help him with a few things. It's difficult for me to be there because of course I'm sure it's the major place H and OW were screwing around. He has ruined that place for me. I go the the funeral home now and truthfully am sorry that any of my family was buried through there. That's heavy!

While there Hs ex-business partner called and talked to H and then me. He and H had a very superficial conversation. Partner says he made himself return a call H made to him. H has no idea the degree of anger partner has towards him. Partner was betrayed just like me.

I told partner about the love letters. Also mentioned a business trip that OW and H had made that H denied having sex with her, but now says they did. Partner told me something he had held from me before, probably to protect me. He had told me someone was suspicious of them, but apparently the person saw them go into the hotel room together. It just disgusts me how stupid he was about his A. At least he could have been sneakier.

Then partner tells me the following. A good friend of his cuts OWs hair. Apparently while she was getting her hair cut she was trashing my H. Telling this guy that H really screwed her over, fired her, went back on all his promises, and now she can't get a job. I don't think that was the story she was supposed to be telling people.

I'm thinking I should tell H both of these stories. I talked to him about the business trip the other day and H told me no one saw anything suspicious. I'd like him to hear the truth. I also think he should know what she's mouthing off in the community because he thinks she's sooooooo wonderful. He's pining away over someone who's trashing him. What do you all think about this dose of reality?

Also, H told me this morning that she called him yesterday to ask him if he got some unemployment info she sent him. He said it was a 30 second conversation. I asked him if she needed to call him about that, and he said no. Two more questions concerning this. H didn't want to send NC letter because of legal ramifications. However, if he saved her Love letters, she has all of his. So what's the difference if he sends NC letter? I think he should. Her last day when I talked to her He totally protected her. That's HER last image of him. Plus, she called him hoping they'd talk.

Second, I have a desire to e-mail the B. I want to let her know I read the letters. Let her know that I now also "share the same sun, moon, and stars" as they do. I want to tell her not to F with me. Ask her if her parents know about the A. Let her know if she contacts H, or starts anything up with him, they will know and so will exH. Imply the letters will be shared. Tell her if she has any questions for H, e-mail me and I'll tell him.

What do you all think? Can I get in trouble for threatening to use those letters, or for threatening to out her? I'd love to get your opinions and advice.

One last note! There were 2 pictures of her mixed in with a collage of pictures. I took the whole thing apart, got her pictures out, and her image is officially out of there. That felt good. Haven't shredded them yet, but I will. Maybe I'll burn them.
CV

I thought I'd follow-up before anyone might reply. This morning I told H about the person who saw H and OW go into the hotel room on the business trip they took in the Fall. I then told him about OW trashing him in the beauty parlor. After I told him I said, "Look at the contrast between her and me. For 10 months I have not told one member of my family about how you've treated me, and now what I know you've done to me, in order to protect you. And she is out in public voicing her anger."

I feel like he is semi-fogged. It's like a part of him gets this, and then another part still makes excuses for her. H: "Partner exagerates. You really can't believe him. It's one gay guy (stylist) telling another gay guy. You weren't there. You don't know what she actually said." The thing is the stylist 1st related a conversation he had with H in which I heard. I was in the room. He related that conversation to partner totally accurately. I pointed that out to H. H also was down on the person who saw them go into the hotel room. I said, "You are blaming everyione but yourself. You are a married man who went into a hotel room with someone who wasn't your W. God only knows what you were doing outside that room. The only one to blame is yourself."

I am so sick of this SH&&. I don't want to meet one of his ENs right now. He told me this morning I don't have to worry, if we break up he won't be with OW. I said, "Right!"

I need you guys to slap me around a bit. I feel so angry at Hs betrayal I don't feel like trying. I can't imagine overcoming these feelings. We went out last night with my 2 brothers, their Ws, and an old friend of brother's and his GF. They all hadn't seen me for a while and gushed over how great I look. I guess because of the depression weight loss diet I've been on. The thing is it felt good. I certainly haven't gotten any of that affirmation from H. I looked at him and my family and thought, "OMG, if they only knew what he did to me." I actually felt like I was looking at a slimy creature. We were all laughing and having fun, yet I was having those thoughts. Help! I need encouragement please! CV

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CV55:
<strong> "Look at the contrast between her and me. For 10 months I have not told one member of my family about how you've treated me, and now what I know you've done to me, in order to protect you. And she is out in public voicing her anger."

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">CV55, I have found that this kind of statement only makes them defensive and serves as an OBSTACLE to him coming to this conclusion on his own. He felt that he should defend the OW. I think if you back off, you will find that he will come to the conclusion that OW was not such a bright and shining person. But he can't come to that conclusion if he is busy defending her from YOU.

You know, while you don't feel like meeting his needs right now [and who can blame you for that?] you can, at the very least, abstain from lovebusters. I see a lot of disrespectful judgements in your discussions with him that are not helping him withdraw from his fog. They are driving an even bigger wedge between you both. They might make you feel better in the moment, but they are destroying any future chance at intimacy and trust.

I know you are furious right now and I fully understand that! But come here and vent to US instead of him!

Dr. Harley says about Disrespectful Judgements:


quote:
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In the final analysis, disrespectful judgments represent an effort to force our spouses to give us what we want in marriage, but it's often cleverly disguised. Instead of making an outright demand, we present our problem as if it were really our spouse's personal shortcoming. We try to "straighten out" our spouse in an effort to get our way.
At the time we rationalize our disrespect by convincing ourselves that we're doing our spouses a big favor, to lift them from the darkness of their confusion into the light of our superior perspective. If they would only follow our advice, we tell ourselves, they could avoid many of life's pitfalls-and we would also get what we want.

A disrespectful judgment occurs whenever one spouse tries to impose a system of values and beliefs on the other. When a husband tries to force his point of view on his wife, he's just asking for trouble. When a wife assumes that her own views are right and her husband is woefully misguided -- and tells him so -- she enters a minefield.

In most cases, a disrespectful judgment is simply a sophisticated way of getting what one spouse wants from the other. But even when there are the purest motives, it's still a stupid and abusive strategy. It's stupid because it doesn't work, and it's abusive because it causes unhappiness. If we think we have the right -- even the responsibility -- to impose our view on our spouses, our efforts will almost invariably be interpreted as personally threatening, arrogant, rude, and incredibly disrespectful. That's when we make sizable withdrawals from the Love Bank.


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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CV55:
<strong>

I need you guys to slap me around a bit. I feel so angry at Hs betrayal I don't feel like trying. I can't imagine overcoming these feelings.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You WILL overcome these feelings, IF you will just give your marriage a chance. Start by backing off and withholding lovebusters. Let him get through withdrawal so he can get to a point where he HAS something to give you. And to a point where he WANTS to give you something. He has nothing to give right now!

Lovebusting just pushes him away, which pushes you away from what YOU WANT, which is a happy, fulfilling marriage.

Dear CV55-- My heart breaks for you...

I totally understand your attempts at wanting your H to "see straight".

Unfortunately, your H will not *see* until he is ready to *see* <sigh>... perhaps, he will never really *see* what is so apparent to us as a betrayed spouse (from our own perceptions).

I was "lucky" in the fact that my H was able to experience his OW's ugly side without my interference-- although, this had its own ugly consequences (ie: having to listen to him lament that "OW was not the woman he thought she was," and "how could she do this to me", etc.).

Sometimes, it helps to remember that our husbands weren't so much in love with the OW-- but rather with how these women MADE THEM FEEL ABOUT THEMSELVES.

In my situation, the OW made my H feel like a *superstar*. He could do NO WRONG in her eyes... And, I'd be willing to bet that your husband's situation is somewhat similar-- hence his hesitation to find fault with OW.

Furthermore, and for whatever reasons (???), I'd be willing to bet that prior to your H's affair he was feeling somewhat down on himself. Perhaps it had something to do with his perceptions of you and the marriage... perhaps it didn't.

I do know that in my situation, my H felt that I was always "down" on him. He felt that he couldn't/didn't please me-- that I didn't appreciate his many, many accomplishments and GOOD QUALITIES... that I no longer could *see* HIM. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

This WAS HIS PERCEPTION-- and as much as I disagreed with his personal perception-- and as much as my own perception was WILDLY DIFFERENT, I somewhere along the road realized that I HAD TO ACKNOWLEDGE HIS FEELINGS. I had to HEAR HIM. I had to repeat back to him that I UNDERSTOOD HOW HE FEELED... that I UNDERSTOOD WHAT MADE OW SO APPEALING... that I UNDERSTOOD WHAT SHE SUPPOSEDLY WAS GIVING HIM THAT I WAS BLIND TOO.

I HAD TO COMFORT HIM AND GRIEVE HIS LOSS WITH HIM.

Yes it sucked... yes it was extremely hard to do... yes it felt *wrong* to weep by his side over the loss of this OW...

BUT, the last thing my H needed (and possibly the last thing your H needs) was for me to prove to him why I was the better *person*... why I was more deserving (or pure, or honest, or loving, etc. etc. etc.).

Because no matter how I saw myself, or viewed myself-- and no matter how many certificates or awards that I could produce proclaiming my *goodness*-- and no matter how many good friends and family members came forward in my defense-- The truth is that I had to face the fact that (although it was not planned or intentional), according to my H's perception, I HAD FAILED THE ONE PERSON I LOVED MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE IN THE WORLD.

We all fail, we all make mistakes.

Instead of attempting to demonize OW-- ask instead what you can GIVE to your H to help him heal (??). Hold him, hug him...

...and most importantly: VALIDATE HIM

Hugs to you, ~Marie

Ooops - Time to quickly check out the "quick click" links restoring the marriage and overcoming resentment on the home page here.

Dr. Harley explains exactly what you are going through, and what you need to do now.

ML, you're right. I'm DJing him all over the place.I've got OWs number and I want him to get it too. I wish he and partner weren't so angry at one another, because partner could give him some insight into her character. But that won't happen, and it just frustrates me when he sticks up for her. I found 2 professional pins in his drawew at work with her name on them. I told him I took them and why did he still have them. He said he was slowling getting rid of her stuff. He shredded her professional cards the other day and said it was very painful for him. Said it's his way of letting go. I gave him back the pins to hopefully get rid of in time.

ohmy_marie, grieving with him about OW is really hard for me. I will try to lessen my sarcasm. I was mocking out those love letters which I'm sure was a major LBer. I asked him what was up with the bunnies and strawberry cards? And please, "We share the same sun, moon, and stars?" What you said about it's the way OW made WS feel does help. She was stroking his ego big time. It was all over those letters. He was SO SPECIAL to her.

After I read your replies I got off the internet and found H. He is having hemorroid problems today. He's actually in a lot of pain. I went to the drugstore and got him meds. I then tenderly looked him in the eyes and said, "Does it feel like there's a hot poker up your butt?" I know! I think it's my Sicilian ancestry that's kicking in now. I feel like calling somebody named something like Vinny Gambiotti in to teach some people a lesson. Anyway, after my poker comment I cuddled with him, sympathized with how terrible the pain must feel (as I'm gleefully thinking you deserve it), and rubbed his head and tummy. I then made him a cheese sandwich.

I am VERY hurt over the lies he continued telling me after the A was revealed. H went to Az. 1 1/2 weeks after he told me he had feelings for her that he hadn't revealed. He didn't talk to me for 3 days after he got to AZ. That was one of the worst weeks of my life. I was so hurt and had major insomnia because he didn't call me. He told me today he was calling her, which he had lied about before. Every year he goes to this guitar seminar in the summer. Last summer he went and I was so cut off from him emotionally at that point. I don't know if he even called me every day. He told me today he brought her laptop with him so they could IM each other. After the A was revealed he was very passionate towards me and said he wasn't thinking about her. Today he told me he was thinking about her, and me too. Probably more her. Why does all this info hurt so much? I told him I feel like such a fool. He said "You're not the fool, I was the fool."

One of the biggest hurts is about sex. The fact that we literally haven't had intercourse since last March and I now know they've been Screwing at least once a week since July. That kills me. I feel like my H stole my sex life away from me. I told him this morning that he had a wife that wanted to have great sex with him. My desire has been really good in my 40s. Here I lived with his sexual dysfunction, supported him through a chronic illness, depression, med changes. So he gets all straightened out and "F"s her. I am so hurt by that. I feel like I will never enjoy a sex life again with him. Now she's in our friggin bedroom. If I do make love to him I will be thinking that she is tighter because she didn't have kids, he still loves her, was she good in bed. Crap, I never felt inadequate before or conservative. This sex issue is huge for me.

So what do I do while he is going through this withdrawal? Should I have other kinds of sex with him for now so I don't have to picture the 2 of them screwing? I haven't asked yet if they had oral sex, which I'm sure they did. That will be another hurdle. Am I ever going to look at my H with any kind of trusting eyes again, and feel like he really is with me? He told me today he feels cozy and cofortable holding me in bed, but of course he's not feeling what they had.

You all told me to vent, so I am. please keep that advice coming. I need it.

Believer, I will check out the quick tips. Thanks!