Just a little history...I'm 6 weeks post d-day. My H had a 4 mth PA with his boss (EA lasted????). H told me from day one that he wanted to work things out with me (although we've both wavered on this a few times during heated LBing) but it took him 4 weeks to send his NC letter and fellow MBs agree that it 'leaves the door open' (he doesn't agree).

I have posted on this site under a different name several times and appreciate the help I've received. I have encouraged my H to visit the site for support but he overall wasn't interested. I guess I was 'distant' one day and he came onto the board to find out why. He read one of my posts (which had nothing to do with my 'distance') and was livid. Turned into a huge arguement because he didn't agree with my feelings (I'm not wearing my wedding band and he thinks I should...he didn't like why I said I wasn't). Anyway, I've been lurking now without posting but feel like I need some help. I feel like I'm being dishonest with my H by changing my name but I also need to feel safe writing here. I hide nothing from him (I tell him about my posts either before or after they're written...depends on if I'm just expressing how I feel or if I'm asking for advice when I tell him) but sometimes it's helpful to 'process' things and get some 'refocusing' before I proceed to express things to him.

Anyway, overall things have been going well. H states NC with OW (he has asked for a transfer to a different project so he no longer reports to her and their offices are 200 miles apart so no physical contact) and has focused a lot of attention on me...comes home early, never works from home anymore, focusing on kids, focusing on home improvements, etc. Tells me he loves me, leaves notes for me around the house, brings home gifts, calls during the day, etc.

I've been doing fairly well (not great but better) controlling my thoughts/visions of him with OW and I've been holding my tongue more (I'm very good at LBing). I'm working very hard on meeting his ENs and on remaining positive about our future. Something the other day set me off though. I'm not sure what it was but it took me over and I wound up crying most of the day. My H called me and knew I was having a bad day. I wasn't very good about not LBing and brought up OW maybe meeting his needs better. I apologized when he came home because I didn't believe that he had done anything 'wrong' to trigger these thoughts (other than have an A in the first place). At one point during the evening I was reading HNHN (pg. 168) and finding out that 'The straying spouse rarely alls out of love with the ex-lover...' and I just lost it. Burst out crying that I didn't want to feel this pain anymore...that I didn't deserve to feel this pain...blah blah blah

So my H asks if I want to talk about it and I just spew that I know I haven't been a perfect W but I didn't deserve what he did, that I can't believe he didn't even think about my feelings before or during his A, that I don't think I'll ever trust him again (he's always lied a lot...he says because his childhood was so bad that he lied to make himself and others believe it was better...so it didn't help when the book pointed out that these 'types' don't usually change), that I was putting all this energy into us and for what? Would he stray again in 6 months or 6 years? Was I opening myself up only to be hurt again?

H responded that he was sorry for the pain he had caused me...it wasn't his intent. He will never cheat again (because if he thought he would he'd be sure to be honest about it, right?). He loves me and will always love me. He will make me happy again. We have a promising life ahead of us...etc. He said he was sorry again and that he knew there was nothing he could say to me to make me feel differently but that it would take time...then he got up and left the conversation. Sigh...once again, he can't deal with my feelings (because he thinks I should 'be over this' because of his current actions), he's said his peace so converstation over.

Okay, so a few hours later a friend calls him. He's been avoiding this friend for months because he hasn't told him about the A and isn't sure he wants to. They've been friends since they were teenagers so I've encouraged him to speak with this friend for support (I even called the friend and left a message on his machine asking him to keep trying to reach my H and not to give up on him because he isn't returning calls). My H says he's going to take the call and proceeds to the garage to talk...folks it's about 10 degrees in the garage...no shoes, coat, etc. Part of me (most of me) was really happy that he decided to talk to this friend but part of me was so angry that he was 'hiding' in the garage. Would it be so horrible if I heard the conversation? I was in the other room doing my thing so it's not like I was sitting on top of him but damn...if he loves me so much would it hurt for me to hear him tell his friend that? Would it be so horrible if I heard him tell his friend that he made a mistake...is it so horrible that I might feel reassured hearing him say good things about us and bad about them? So I go to bed so he can have some 'privacy'.

He's on the phone for 1.5 hours and then comes to bed. He cuddles up to me and starts kissing me. I think he's feeling better having talked to his friend...I don't know if he's looking for SF because he now 'guilt free' and feeling happy or not but I can tell you that my needs are far from being met at this point so sf is out of the question. We wind up sleeping (and he doesn't seem mad about this so maybe he wasn't really looking for anything, who knows).

This morning we wake up and I ask him about the conversation (I wasn't going to ask because I'd rather that he just tell me but let's face it...that's not going to happen). He says that his friend told him he was a jerk, etc and than chalked it up to a mid life crisis. This irritated me...mid life crisis...not an excuse. So I laughed and said, "Oh good. I'll be the age you were when you started your A in a few months so I guess it will be time for my mid-life crisis." Yes, I know. I shouldn't have said that. His response, "If that's what you feel you need to do. Go ahead." He gets out of bed, showers, and leaves for work.

I do my morning routine and then call him...he's not at the office. I assume he's getting breakfast (which he said he was) but this irritates me. Comes down to me not having a clue what he does all day (while he knows I'm home with the kids) and I thought we agreed to cut out needless spending (which he agreed this is). I call again about a half hour later and try (calmly and rationally) to tell him that I was looking for reassurance last night/this morning...looking for a hug, an "I understand you're hurting and even if I can't fix it I want to be here with you while you go through it." I told him that I knew I didn't express this to him with my words/actions but that I wanted to be honest so I was calling him now. He said I was looking for a fight and now I've got one so I should be happy. He says he's at work and hangs us. This irritates me even more since I've just 'put myself out there' so to speak and damn, there was always time for OW while he was at work...how many emails did I read of them detailing their SF while they were on a conference call or how many times was he at work that his cell phone registered calls to her...

Folks, can you please refocus me. I'm stuck on the negative and I don't want to be here. If I dare say that I think we have hope for a future (although it stings to say that because while I know that it's possible to be happily married after an A...or so I've read...I'm not sure that this will ever be forgotten)...any suggestions for how I might get these damn deamons out of my head? Any suggestions on how I might get them out when they first surface so I don't let them overtake me?

Sorry this is so long winded and scattered. It's really been a bad couple of days. Thanks in advance for any advice.

LF - He didn't really send that "leave the door open" NC letter did he? I hope not!

I'm not sure what to tell you. In the early months after d-day, the triggers, thoughts, visual images, (demons) etc. seem to have a will of their own. They show up and stick around when, and for as long, as they want!

Your H plays an important part "keeping the demons at bay" as well as time and patience.

One thing I noticed was that no matter how many times I tried to refocus, how many times I tried to run down the list of positive things, how many times I tried to convince myself that H loved me, those demons were right there in my face...until my H finally got it.

Unfortunately, it took my H seven months to get it.

Once my H finally got it, the demons have left the building (for the most part).

My H is now very caring, loving, accounts for his time, answers any of my stupid questions or suspicions without anger, sarcasm, LB's, etc. Tells me he loves me about 100 times a day. Tells me his biggest fear was that I would divorce him at any moment. Thanks me over and over again for sticking by his side supporting him, loving him, etc. (Gosh, I know I LB'd him big time some days).

Sounds like your H is coming around. Maybe he struggling to find the right path...probably going through withdrawal somewhat...having trouble changing to 100% accountable for time and actions.

Did you guys find an MC yet? I think it would really help. At least for the next 3 months or so.

Hang in there. I can finally say that 9 months past d-day, I feel like we are truly in recovery. We still have some frustrating days (when the old H appears out of nowhere-or I jump on the LB train) but for the most part, things are going pretty well. Much, much better than when we were at six weeks.

Think of the positives, be strong, no LB's...but do take time for yourself...cry it out sometimes...yell it out sometimes...write it out sometimes and you'll feel better.

Take care and let us know how it is going.

sss

Hi LF,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">overall things have been going well. H states NC with OW (he has asked for a transfer to a different project so he no longer reports to her and their offices are 200 miles apart so no physical contact) and has focused a lot of attention on me...comes home early, never works from home anymore, focusing on kids, focusing on home improvements, etc. Tells me he loves me, leaves notes for me around the house, brings home gifts, calls during the day, etc.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First of all, read the above a few times. You have what many BS's here would KILL for. Remember this when you can.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've been doing fairly well (not great but better) controlling my thoughts/visions of him with OW and I've been holding my tongue more (I'm very good at LBing)....

Something the other day set me off though. I'm not sure what it was but it took me over and I wound up crying most of the day.... I wasn't very good about not LBing and brought up OW maybe meeting his needs better.

and I just lost it. Burst out crying that I didn't want to feel this pain anymore...that I didn't deserve to feel this pain...blah blah blah

I just spew that I know I haven't been a perfect W but I didn't deserve what he did, that I can't believe he didn't even think about my feelings before or during his A, that I don't think I'll ever trust him again

that I was putting all this energy into us and for what? Would he stray again in 6 months or 6 years? Was I opening myself up only to be hurt again?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">100% perfectly normal!! Every bit of it. At 6 weeks past dday, you SHOULD be feeling lots of pain and confusion and insecurity. Please dont beat yourself up because you feel this way. There is just no way around it. You know what LB's are, you know to try to eliminate them, but heaven knows, you are going through hell right now. This recovery includes you getting this all out so it can be dealt with.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">H responded that he was sorry for the pain he had caused me...it wasn't his intent. He will never cheat again.... He loves me and will always love me. He will make me happy again. We have a promising life ahead of us...etc. He said he was sorry again and that he knew there was nothing he could say to me to make me feel differently but that it would take time. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is all good. Does he seem sincere? Are you two in MC? I'm sorry, I only vaguely remember your story, so I dont know who you were...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">..then he got up and left the conversation. Sigh...once again, he can't deal with my feelings (because he thinks I should 'be over this' because of his current actions), he's said his peace so converstation over. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now, does he actually SAY that after 4 weeks you should be totally over this, or are you assuming he just wishes it was over? You are assuming he left because he CANT deal with your feelings...

How about either he doesnt know HOW to, or he WONT deal with them. You need to know the difference. Dont assume.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Part of me (most of me) was really happy that he decided to talk to this friend but part of me was so angry that he was 'hiding' in the garage. Would it be so horrible if I heard the conversation?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have to say, I think you are totally OFF on this one. Give the guy a break here, he's going through a LOT (yes, I know you are too, but so is he), and you should not begrudge him a call with a good friend whom you approve of. This is your insecurity flaring up (which is totally valid, but you need to get control of it!) you think he should be doing everything in the world to make you feel more secure, and he choose not to with this phone call. Not the end of the world, please let this go.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He cuddles up to me and starts kissing me. I think he's feeling better having talked to his friend...I don't know if he's looking for SF because he now 'guilt free' and feeling happy or not...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK... I know this guy had the A, but he cant win here, can he? Do you really think Guilt Free is an option for him? The Disrespctful Judgements are killing you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He says that his friend told him he was a jerk, etc and than chalked it up to a mid life crisis. This irritated me...mid life crisis...not an excuse. So I laughed and said, "Oh good. I'll be the age you were when you started your A in a few months so I guess it will be time for my mid-life crisis." Yes, I know. I shouldn't have said that. His response, "If that's what you feel you need to do. Go ahead." He gets out of bed, showers, and leaves for work. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep, you've GOT to work on cutting this stuff out. Remember the goal. You decided to keep him and work on your marriage. You've got to start phasing OUT of the Mad as Hell phase and into the Recovery Phase.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do my morning routine and then call him...he's not at the office. I assume he's getting breakfast (which he said he was) but this irritates me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">EVERYTHING irritates you right now. It's normal, but understand you are super uptight right now, and try to temper your words.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Comes down to me not having a clue what he does all day (while he knows I'm home with the kids) and I thought we agreed to cut out needless spending (which he agreed this is). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">These are LB's on his part. Is HE working on his LB's or is he foggy? He didnt sound too foggy from what you wrote. Make sure these are on your LB list.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I call again about a half hour later and try (calmly and rationally) to tell him that I was looking for reassurance last night/this morning...looking for a hug, an "I understand you're hurting and even if I can't fix it I want to be here with you while you go through it."
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It might be a LB to try to do marriage counceling over the phone, at work. If you two can work this out ahead of time and he agrees, OK. Otherwise, I dont think it's wise to address hurt feelings this way. You could tell him that you'd like to call him sometimes and just have him tell you he loves you and that things will be ok, then he knows you just need a 'hug'. Bringing up that he 'missed' your que this moring about the call is what he considers 'new material' and 'something I screwed up again', and yes, looking for a fight (in his mind).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ... there was always time for OW while he was at work...how many emails did I read of them detailing their SF while they were on a conference call or how many times was he at work that his cell phone registered calls to her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There's always time to get your ego stroked by some whore. The benefits are obvious. Dealing with a severly p*ssed off and hurt wife takes MUCH MUCH MUCH more effort and commitment. It's VERY draining. Please do not compare the time he spent with her with yours. When you two get good again, and everybody is happy with each other again, there will be nice time for you, too.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He says he's at work and hangs up. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LB on his part. You probably shouldnt have called with this, but he could have handled it better.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If I dare say that I think we have hope for a future (although it stings to say that because while I know that it's possible to be happily married after an A...or so I've read...I'm not sure that this will ever be forgotten). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope that ISNT a condition of your staying in the marriage <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . No one forgets, but the pain goes away. This could be the turning point that leads to great marriage. If he gives 100%, and you work your way towards that too... You kept him, you must think there is something worth keeping??

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">any suggestions for how I might get these damn deamons out of my head? Any suggestions on how I might get them out when they first surface so I don't let them overtake me? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There's a great book called 'How to Stubbornly Refuse to make yourself Miserable about Anything, Yes Anything' by Albert Ellis. It's basically Rational Emotive Therapy, and it's a lot of self talk to get your emotions in check. Lots of tips and techniques to use on yourself. I'd been using many of them for years before I found his book.

Otherwise, no. You just have to go THROUGH all of this <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . It's like any other tragedy, you can only delay the process, but you do have to process it. Good days and bad. You are very early into this, and you should not attempt to short-cut around this. It doesnt work, anyway.

Make sure you are getting enough to eat, enough water and sleep. Make time to see friends and family and do FUN things with them. Take 'breaks' from recovery with your H and the two of you just have some fun yourselves, sometimes. Try not to let the bad times get you too down, and dont think 'all is well' during the good times. Stay strong and calm. This is your H's mess, let him to the lions share of the cleaning up for awhile. Please take care of yourself - Dru

<small>[ March 24, 2004, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: Drucilla ]</small>

Thanks sss and Drucilla for your words of encouragement. Yes, I know how lucky I am to have a H that is out of the 'fog' and working on our M. Sometimes I feel like a jerk writing because I know there are so many others who need advice from you but I guess, in a sense, that's why I wrote. I've got what looks like something good happening and I don't want to screw it up. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In the early months after d-day, the triggers, thoughts, visual images, (demons) etc. seem to have a will of their own. They show up and stick around when, and for as long, as they want!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is just making me insane. I don't even need a trigger but when one happens (I just went to send an email to someone and when I put in the first letter of the subject 'a' it automatically 'filled in the blank' with a previous subject title...which was an email my H sent to OW entitled 'at least I nailed something') I find myself losing it again. I get so mad...I hear you Drucilla... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You've got to start phasing OUT of the Mad as Hell phase and into the Recovery Phase. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm definitely struggling here... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Now, does he actually SAY that after 4 weeks you should be totally over this, or are you assuming he just wishes it was over? You are assuming he left because he CANT deal with your feelings... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, yes and no. My H is very good at 'putting things out of his mind' in the sense that once he makes a decision he goes full force ahead. This is what he's saying he's doing with our M...I guess I worry about the full LB she still has with him (if she's not around to empty it it will always be full...according to Harley). He hasn't told me over the past few weeks that I should be over it by now but he did prior to that. Thank you for your comment though because it did make me realize that he hasn't said it since the second NC letter...(I, and others on this site, felt it left the door open but he says there's been no contact since he sent it...which means that she isn't giving him 'advice' on how we're progressing...damn it...if it weren't for her damn 'advice' in the first place we wouldn't be here...she totally convinced him that our problems were so much worse than they were in reality...had she has some integrity of her own or had she cared about dragging someone else down to her pathetic level I wouldn't even be going through this...sounds like 'fog' talk, I know but I truly believe it...it takes 2 to tango but it only takes one to convince the other that 'the tango' is a good dance to try...here's that anger again). Drucilla thanks for the book suggestion. I'm going to definitely give it a try...will probably be good for other aspects of my life also. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You just have to go THROUGH all of this . It's like any other tragedy, you can only delay the process, but you do have to process it. Good days and bad. You are very early into this, and you should not attempt to short-cut around this. It doesnt work, anyway. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">....sigh...at least the sun is shining today... Thanks again for your encouragement. It really helped.