<small>[ March 25, 2004, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: chris37 ]</small>

Thank you for you insight Chris, I wish my WW could read your post but she is living with OM now so I'm just trying to be patient and not LB and stay strong. This is the hardest thing that we have ever faced. I'd like to think that if my WW could get her head out of the fog and see what a piece of garbage the OM is (he's going through a DV and is causing one) and that I'm still here for her that our marriage can be stronger then ever.

As a BS, I can give you a good expose of OP's character....

The "man" (and that is strictly a genetic term) that my WW is seeing has stated that he would never live with someone before he's married. Apparently sleeping with a married woman falls well outside of his greatly defined moral boundaries. W-T-F EVER! ....

hope you get some good replies.

Chris, great message. I tried to find your story in Letting go of OW, but they have all been deleted <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I would love to hear your story!!!!

John, anything I want my WH to read from this board I print it out for him and give it to him and he reads it in front of me. Whether or not he comprehends it at the time, I dont know, but I do know at least he has read it! You can mail her copies of anything you want her to read. I just printed out the whole thing on the Basic Concepts for WH to read this weekend. It is sitting on the table waiting for him as I type.

People too weak to follow their own dreams will often find a way to discourage others


I found this on one of the other boards...wish I could remember who put it down so I could give credit...in my case OW took advantage of H's when times were rough for him. She leads a miserable life and rather than encouraging him to do the right thing she brought him right down to her level...I guess at the same time he was doing that to her...after all, he is the OP also.

<small>[ March 25, 2004, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: chris37 ]</small>

Sorry but I have to say if this is a thread to VENT about the OP then VENT ON! BUT, I just have to say that the OP made no promises/vows to the BS or the BS' children. THE WS DID! The OP does not twist any arms for the WS to cheat and leave behind their family, WS made that choice to leave.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> A person of integrity would not get involved with a married person. PERIOD! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That sentence makes the WS even lower in character than the OP don't you think?
Please, don't get me wrong, I have little compassion for OP, I don't believe in laying blame and calling names on 1 person when it takes 2 to cheat! Your friend's OW may be a slut but remember, HE CHOSE a slut to love.

<small>[ March 24, 2004, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: chris37 ]</small>

<small>[ March 25, 2004, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: chris37 ]</small>

<small>[ March 25, 2004, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: chris37 ]</small>

Good post , its weird though my H is not in FOG and still belives and has always said , she didn't do anything wrong I was the one who lied to her and told her I was D'ing .

But when I ask him what about when she spoke with me and found out there was no D talk and when i offered it YOU refused then she said, she wanted nothing to do with a M man .

But then she continued and pushed him for the D and thretened him with his job .

YEP OP they have character !!!!

3's Thats what I thought when I was in the fog...thats the same thing I told my wife. in my case OW knew I was married after 2nd date. I lied to her about D'ing too. We broke up after 1 year for 6 weeks, I told her during that break up that I never filed. She still came back to me and bought the same lie for 6 more years. Yes I was not a good person (cake eatter) Chris

I would think that, in most cases, it is counterproductive to vilify the OP. My ex-MOW was as deep in a pit of depression as I was. Whatever she might be blamed for, I would be guilty of as well.

Sometimes, it seems to make my wife feel better to think that the MOW was a cold calculating b!tch that was out to steal me away. But the reality is that my wife and I failed to protect our marriage. The MOW had nothing to do with that. The reality is that I made a very bad choice for which I take full responsibility.

I know from what I've heard through the grapevine that my ex-MOW has not done well since her marriage dissolved. I actually feel very sorry for her. For the longest time, I blamed myself for her sorry state, but I eventually had to let her "own" her part in this...I had to stop owning all of it.

When my wife hurls invectives at the OW for the same behaviors I was doing, I translate that as 'I'm no better, so that must mean all of this is true of me also'. It may well be true, but it still hurts.

The blame game might be fun, but it distracts from the real work of rebuilding your marriage.

Low

Its not the BLAME GAME its the responsiblty GAME , you know ADULT life .

There is a flaw in the character of the WS , the made a bad choice .

So why is BLAME GAME to say the OP has a charater flaw ? Why do they need to be protected , ? If we say it takes 2 then they are at falt as well .

And NO the BS is not at any fault at all , even if both the partys M was not what it should have been the BS ,,,,, NEVER LET ANYONME IN !

NOR did they leave the door open for anyone to come in ,,, IT is the CHOICE of the WS and the OP that the A happened.

I can sight so much regarding the LACK of OW's character. Early on she expressed to my husband how she was so afraid of what I might do to her if I found out about them.

Being me, of course, I never did anything. But what is most interesting is it was the OW who constantly harassed me over the phone. With me having to finally file an anti-harrassment order against her.

Then there's her telling my husband how she is praying to God every day that God will get him to leave me so they can be together. To quote her: "God won't give you your future until you accept it".

Character? I'd say tons of manipulative character at all costs, even low enough to use God and spirituality as a device.

How does anyone who believes in God, twist and conjole an affair to the degree that their VERSION of what's right appears it came from God? And do they really believe themselves? Fog or no fog, how?

Jo

<small>[ March 24, 2004, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

We must disagree here.

When everyone involved has accepted responsibility for what they have done and are moving on with trying to make things right, then hurling invective towards the OP is, in fact, a counterproductive blame game. It shifts focus from repairing the relationship to assigning blame. By working to affix blame (or "responsibility" if you choose)to the OP, you let yourselves off the hook for things you need to correct.

Please re-read my response. I never said the affair was my wife's fault...it's not. However, she does have some responsibility for the state of the marriage up to that point. That is right in line with MB principles.

It appears from your post that you have chosen to bundle the worth of these individuals in with their actions. By labeling individuals who have made bad choices as being fundamentally flawed, you undermine their ability to recover AND your ability to forgive them. I ask you, in the end, who does it benefit to label them? How does it help you to make things better?

Low

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Written by LowOrbit:
"I would think that, in most cases, it is counterproductive to vilify the OP." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LO,

I am not most cases, nor do I need to vilify the OW, she did that herself when she called me on my answering machine and left a message calling me a "Cancerous C_nt". At the time I was in stage 3 cancer treatments and had never met the woman.

Jo

Dear 3isacrowd,
I just read your earlier post. I so sorry you are having a horrible day. I can see how my earlier response must have stung a bit. I apologize and hope things get better for you. Your responses make perfect sense now.

Low

Dear Jo,

You've helped make my point for me. You can't control how the OP conducts themselves. If they choose to make an a$$ out of themselves like the OW in your case, that is much to their shame.

But if she had chosen to leave you be, would you have felt the need to ensure your H knew just exactly how horrible a person she was for what she did?

Oh, and your point about involving God...I did this as well. I was on my knees in church on Sunday thanking God for bringing the OW into my life. This may seem particularly extreme and offensive, but it is just another manifestation of the "fog". I have concluded that the period immediately before, during, and immediately after my affair, I was a mentally ill person who was not in complete charge of my faculties.

I have confessed this to Him and asked His forgiveness.

Low

<small>[ March 24, 2004, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: LowOrbit ]</small>