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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LowOrbit:
But if she had chosen to leave you be, would you have felt the need to ensure your H knew just exactly how horrible a person she was for what she did?
Low</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You may have missed the fact. LO, that I ly the blame of my ex-H's affairs squarely on his shoulders. The OW in question contributed considerably without a doubt, but my ex-H knew her lack of character going-in and without question, yet overlooked it. His reasons are only known to him.
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What about my case, Low?
The OM took advantage of my wife in her vulnerability after the loss of our son. She didn't know how to grieve - I was grieving - and he swooped in the "save" her, abandoning his family for a trophy woman.
Yep, she could have declined and she should have declined - even in her grief - but her pain drove her to seek refuge SOMEWHERE. What's his excuse? I blame him for not allowing me to perform my function as a husband - as difficult as it was anyway without my wife's participation.
So, I'd bundle the worth of this scum bag in the lowest trash bin of life imaginable. Tell me you don't think he is fundamentally flawed.
Go ahead, make my day.
<small>[ March 24, 2004, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>
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I think all of our situations are unique, and we all have to do what works in our lives, with our S's.
I do agree with loworbit, to some extent. In my case, I could see during recovery if I flame the OW, my WH is going to feel the pain. Because he does realize that for everything she did, he did as well. She was my "best friend," but he is my H, my protector, my ultimate best friend, and life partner.
He takes more responsibility for my pain than she ever can. I thank you LO for bringing that to my attention. I didn't realize until you explained why WH is so hurt when I blast her.
He is not defending her anymore. It is just as if I am blasting him. And maybe, I am, just putting a different face on it.
Good perspective for me.
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow, I just read some of your other post…You sure are a negative person, Nothing a FWS can do or say would be seen as positive by you. Chris</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No Chris I'm not a negative person at all, funny how you like to lump someone's opinion as just another ANGRY BS when one does not agree or challenges your way of thinking. I simply noted that your NEGATIVE POST TOWARDS OP was too one-sided. If that post had been written by a BS I would have said the same. But thats your choice to believe what you will about me, even though you don't know WHAT MY STORY IS AT THIS POINT OF MY LIFE.
<small>[ March 24, 2004, 09:09 PM: Message edited by: trying2_4give ]</small>
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Dear WAT,
Your situation is somewhat different than the situation where the marriage is recovering apart from the OP. I'm not sure that I'd feel any different from you given your circumstances.
In your case the OM and your ex-W chose to follow through on their error. I believe it's possible that your wife and this OM may have been people who initially made a horrific error in judgement. I don't know...I don't know their history before that. However, I would offer you that their continuance of this behavior will ultimately permanently damage any character they may have had beforehand. They will have to permanently revise themselves to justify their new life. Their decision will haunt them to their grave.
A discussion of character must include an observation of whether the behaviors represent a consistent pattern or it is an anomalous event.
People of good character may perform isolated horrific acts that are out of line with that character for a variety of reasons. This does not excuse them from the consequences of those acts, but I think we should recognize that an isolated incident for which the offender is trying to repent of doesn't necessarily represent deficient character.
I ask you to consider this hypothetical outcome: What if your wife and the OM had immediately terminated their relationship and both began working to repair what they had done? What if this represented an extremely anomalous act for both of them? Could you have found it in your heart to have forgiven them? Would you have put energy into reminding your repentant wife just how much of a scumbag the OM was? Do you think that would have helped you recover? Please understand, forgiveness does not mean that you welcome the OM back into your life with open arms, but only that you consider the matter closed between you.
As an ex-MOM, recognizing that I was not intrinsically flawed is the ONLY thing that empowered me to recover my marriage. If I had continued to listen to those who wanted me to know that I had a fundamental character flaw, I would probably have justified my behavior by saying this was just they way I am. Why should I even try to change if I'm flawed? It's pointless.
I might as well start looking for my next OW, since that's my character, right? My wife will just have to understand that it's in my nature, won't she?
Labeling creates hopelessness. MB is all about recovering hope. I'm convinced that labeling does more to destroy the marriage than it helps.
Hope this clarifies my position.
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Low - as I had hoped, I think we're in violent agreement. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LowOrbit: <strong>What if your wife and the OM had immediately terminated their relationship and both began working to repair what they had done? What if this represented an extremely anomalous act for both of them? Could you have found it in your heart to have forgiven them? Would you have put energy into reminding your repentant wife just how much of a scumbag the OM was?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The difference for me is that neither my now XW nor OM has ever acknowledged any errors and, to this day, still deny they participated in an extramarital affair. Of course, had they ended it and sought forgiveness from all whom they had betrayed, I believe I could have followed the high road. I expect I would not have had to remind my wife of the temporary flawed character of OM. It would have been painfully obvious to her, as you predict it may still be eventually. Good luck to you, WAT
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HA!
I have been doing just this the last few days!
I have been telling my WH all about this OW's true character!
FIRST - she is in a long term releationship with another woman. They live together. This entire time. And she kept promising WH a "threesome" that never happened, her SO did not know about this A.
The OW has an adult son (early 20's) who has deep emotional problems and is on regular medication for his "issues"
The OW is a sober alcholic.
She was his "contracted boss" (one of a few companies we work with), but tried to get one of our employees to steal our business plan and product and have him work for her directly. She slept with two (that we know of, maybe more) of my WH business associates that she met thru him, and called him to tell him about it! (the only contact since he wrote a NC and he told me right away)
I pointed this psyco stuff out to WH in a calm manner and added, everything you think you may have felt was based on a lie. No one treats someone they really care about like this - Your entire time with her was false and anything you may have felt was false. This person is too disturbed to begin to base anything in reality.
It looked like I slugged him, the look on his face. But he needs a light bulb to go off. I was as nice as could be to him while pointing out all this stuff that hurt him.
I ended it with telling him how much I love him dispite all of the hurt he has brought into our home.
Then I changed the subject.
Yes it was satisfying!
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<small>[ March 25, 2004, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: chris37 ]</small>
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Chris, I personally don't see your original post as a "fogbuster". I see it as just venting negativity about the OP. I can say a lot of nasty things about OM and cite several character flaws, but what is the point? The OP isn't even an issue in terms of rebuilding a marriage. The only issue with OP is NO CONTACT. It serves no purpose IMHO to give the OP the time of day it takes to think the thoughts and type them out when that time could be spent focusing on the marriage and spouse. For me, the real "fogbuster" on this site was reading about the pain of the BS. Once NC was instilled, I was able to put my focus and attention and compassion toward my H. And away from OM. I am not wasting time harboring resentment toward OM. Seems to me that that is what you are doing with this thread. IMHO. Wasting time on OW even in a negative light is still taking time away from your W. mrsx </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by chris37: <strong> Trying2forgive Quote: “Your friend's OW may be a slut but remember, HE CHOSE a slut to love.” This is the problem when he "chose" to love her he thought she was his wonderful Soulmate. Now that he has gone through it and there is no more “Fog” he sees her for what she was. When the fog lifts there is no more “love feelings for OP, there is no “I feel sorry for them”. There is indifference towards them. I personally, am angry at myself for being so stupid and allowing the OW into my life. And yes I am using the experience to become a better person, I am looking forward to giving my wife the husband and the life she deserves. Why is it so hard for you to see the purpose of this post? It’s not to dwell on the fact that OP are no good. It’s not for BS to harp on their WS AFTER Recovery starts. Its for WS to wake up and try to look at things from a different angle. It’s a FOGBUSTER……geeezzzzzz! Chris </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> <small>[ March 25, 2004, 11:39 AM: Message edited by: mrsx ]</small>
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<small>[ March 26, 2004, 12:57 PM: Message edited by: chris37 ]</small>
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<small>[ March 26, 2004, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: chris37 ]</small>
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Oh absolutely, I was ready to pack up and leave H for OM. I thought he was my soulmate my best friend and the most incredible person I ever met. BUT I didn't see him for who he really was UNTIL I was ready to instill NC and work on my M. If a person is actively involved in the A, nothing anyone says about OP will convince that person to see OP in an objective light. If I would have read your post when I was still deep in the fog and screwing around w/OM, I would have been so disassociated with what you are saying. I would have been like:"MY OM isn't like that! My A is so different!!!, blah blah blah"... I am not nitpicking your post, I am sure you need to vent and I agree with what you said, I just disagree that it is a "fogbuster" is all. But again that's just My very humble opinion. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by chris37: <strong> MrsX" I agree with you 100%. I am not focusing or venting feelings for the OP. My question is: When you were in your "fog" you thought the OP was Great, Right? You did not think bad of him, you thought you loved him. Right? I posted how an Affair ended,in my friends case if he could of seen her for what she was, his case may of had a different outcome. It was a turning point for me when I came out of the "fog" and saw my OW for the kind of woman she was. I am not focusing on feelings for her and I don't know how you read that into the post. Chris </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
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posted March 25, 2004 11:37 AM
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Chris,
I personally don't see your original post as a "fogbuster". I see it as just venting negativity about the OP. I can say a lot of nasty things about OM and cite several character flaws, but what is the point? The OP isn't even an issue in terms of rebuilding a marriage. The only issue with OP is NO CONTACT.
It serves no purpose IMHO to give the OP the time of day it takes to think the thoughts and type them out when that time could be spent focusing on the marriage and spouse.
For me, the real "fogbuster" on this site was reading about the pain of the BS. Once NC was instilled, I was able to put my focus and attention and compassion toward my H. And away from OM. I am not wasting time harboring resentment toward OM. Seems to me that that is what you are doing with this thread. IMHO. Wasting time on OW even in a negative light is still taking time away from your W.
mrsx
BEAUTIFUL! 100% CORRECT! PLEASE CONTACT MY OP AND TELL HER THAT! WOW! IF ONLY SHE WOULD GET OFF MY BACK! I want to be left alone and rebuild my life! This post should be required reading to everyone on this site.
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I'd just like to know why Chris removed all of his posts?
Did you have a change of heart?
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No...Absolutely not...With some of the responses I got I thought it was doing more harm than good.
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It was timely for me to read this today. In the middle of the night I had a definite angry outburst about OW. First off, when the A's details 1st began coming out I felt mostly indifferent to OW. I kept that attitude throughout the month period she had to keep working for H. After I confronted her on her last day I actually felt I was leaving her behind.
OK, where am I now? H's withdrawal has been so tough that the impact of this A is becoming clearer. I have gotten more details and see the extent she become entwined in his life. I am not putting the total blame on her, but I see the manipulation of a man that was in a very vulnerable place. A man who felt remorse and wanted to stop the A, and an OW who kept encouraging it along.
Last night H was initiating sex and I had a melt down of sorts. Sex is one of my top ENs and H took it away from me and gave it regularly to someone else. I feel extreme anger at him for that. Plus the imagination of them together sexually is REALLY hard for me to take. So after wanting to smack the SH** out of him in the middle of the night, and the moment of desire coming to a screeching halt, I proceeded to say several times over, "I hate her Fing guts." My SIL, who's H had an A, told me the following. She said it's hard for her to grasp how a fellow human being, especially another woman, could cause this kind of pain to another woman.
I know eventually I will have to get over this hate for myself. But I'm not there now. I have to go through this stage. Right now the more I know about her part in the A, the more I really dislike her. OK, I just needed to vent. CV
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