Had my 5th call with S.Harley today. Just a couple of assignments for me. Still waiting for W to complete and send ENQ. She complained about affection and he gave me some ideas and sent me back to the bookstore for HNHN (side note:the woman at the bookstore couldn't look me in the eye, I felt like saying I'm not the bad guy).

I asked him for a prognosis and he said she is very guarded and slow to get on board. I told him I can be patient. It makes me wonder what it is that I did to this woman to get her to this point. She talks about me looking at other woman sunbathing 15 years ago. That's what she complained to Steve about today. I was reluctant to suggest that W did any LB's but Steve coaxed it out of me, so I mentioned wife is very critical of me. I attribute that to the A and justifying. Last night I spent the evening replacing a leaking faucet. She came in and while I was laid out under the kitchen sink said "how could I make such a major decision without her". In other words these faucets were all wrong. BTW they're identical to what was there before. They're just new. She is very resistent to this MC and just wants me to go back to sleep. I guess that is what I've been doing all these years. She can't stand this "heightened alert status". I think we're at code Orange today. The one thing I would appreciate feedback on is this: How long can she resist this if I continue these weekly appointments with Steve? What signs of progress can I look for? In other words get your crystal ball out and tell me what you think will happen. It's just in such slow motion that it amazes me at times. I mean there's a pokodot elephant in the living room and we're still Walking On Eggs.

Hi WOE -

I have counseled with SH several times - WH only once. The first month, I conseled every week - now I'm down to about once every couple of weeks. WH is VERY resistant to MC - he thinks the rate SH charges is simply taking advantage of people in our situations. My view is that he is an experienced professional, and you pay for that experience. Anyway, WH refuses to talk to him anymore - even when SH requested that WH call him to talk about me.

As for crystal balls, I wish I had one. I am having a rough time myself - and for some reason, can't get any responses from any MB'ers. My personal opinion (one that SH has helped me to find) is that the A is a matter of time. As for how you deal with it, it is a constant battle of logic vs. emotion. Logically, you KNOW the affair can't work - but emotionally, you want it all to be over and done with. Time couldn't move any slower if the earth was at a total standstill.

Take comfort in those of us here on the board, who know EXACTLY what you are going through. When your friends, family, co-workers, and even WS think you're NUTS for wanting the WS back - we understand you and applaud your every effort at repairing your marriage to make it the best you ever dreamed it could be.

Hang in there, and just remember:

LOGIC VS. EMOTION

i don't have any real sound advice and i know you've heard it a million times that all this is typical and normal, for the WS to bring up past LB's and for you to feel frustrated w/the progress. Just remember to not LB in return. we MB'ers are happy you are posting and i'm sure you'll get some replies but not sure how many with your subject line (ie. update)if people aren't familiar w/your story.

i'm anxious to have my first appt w/SH but will have to get the $ first but i'm sure it will be very insightful. prayers to you.

WantingHimBack, thanks for the very good advice. I'll look for your posts and try to add my two cents.

You H is using the cost as an excuse. I haven't even told my W how much it costs or she would say the same. "We can't affort it". We both know it's a bargain and we can't NOT afford it. It costs the exact same amount whether H gets on the phone or your take the call yourself. So for him it's really FREE.

Harley is not in this for the money. I really believe that. No matter what happens in my life I will remember what a wonderful place this forum is.

Regarding your suggestion LOGIC vs EMOTION. You are very right. It has taken a long time for me to take most of the emotion out of it. I think W senses that and she also understands that the balance of power is changing. I have noticed lately that I am no longer the victim but rather the ships captain. We are now going where I decide and not where she decides. I don't mean that negatively towards W. But I feel more confident then I have in a long time. Good luck and hang in there as well.

When she brings up past mistakes the best thing to do is to say "Yup, sure did".

..."now do you want to make a list of everything I did wrong or do you want to sit down with me and figure out how to solve it... all things bein equal I'd rather you and I be happy, not sad and i am willing to do everything I can to change and work on us because I love you".


...try finding a b1tchy comeback to that statement.

...and if she comes up with one
"Ok, but agian, I can't change either of our past mistakes, together we can make a better future for ourselves and the kids and I believe you are worth fighting for"

Patience and logic is a real pain in the [censored] for a foggy WS - no real way to argue with it.

2, you're right, once you take out emotion you're left with Patience and Logic. That is very hard to argue even for the foggiest wondering spouse. My W is very, very agitated before, during and after these calls. It's like somebody's holding a mirror up to her. Her response still borders on "don't confuse me with the facts". But today she told me that she is tired of hearing "just get over it". I trust this is a reference to something Harley said but it seems like a real gem for me to file away. He gave here some work to do regarding admiration. Not sure I need any from her but I'll take it and this would seemingly force her to open up HNHN. I just got another copy today. I really want her to look at that book. I think it is very even handed. As one of my friends says, "it's always darkest before it goes completely black". I hope that's where I'm at. It couldn't get much darker so it has to start coming back. My only pressing concern about patience is that the summer is fast approaching and I need Harley to let her no that I won't be participating. If I have to deliver that message it will certainly be a LB. Happy Husband who is friends with Lover is a big part of this fantasy. If I get off the funnygoround I think it dissipates at an alarming rate. I guess it's the holding up the mirror thing again.

The examples you give about an exchange are so unlike any dialogue W and I have. I suppose that is part of the problem but there are very limited disrespectful judgements and for the most part we fight fair. But to have a cerebral exchange like you've outlined seems a bit foreign sad to say. It's more like mutual Chinese water tourture being practiced. If we weren't deeply in love we couldn't possibly live like this. But obviously somethings missing if she can't stop the damn phone calls. That does speak volumes.